This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

[Fredledingue]

The goal of Metro is to unify the experience so it doesn't what matter platform you access the experience is familiar.

If someone lend me his/her smartphone or another intelligent device significantly smaller than a laptop, I will expect a very different UI than the one on my PC. I'll find that perfectly normal and not be surprised by that in any way. But if I turn on a computer and find Metro in full screens with all tiles and weather and stuffs, I'll shake my head and wonder what is this and why I don't have the desktop we are all used to see on every computers. What's for a unification if it's to run the desktop anyway?

 

[TheGrantFitz]

The goal of Metro is to unify the experience so it doesn't what matter platform you access the experience is familiar.

If someone lend me his/her smartphone or another intelligent device significantly smaller than a laptop, I will expect a very different UI than the one on my PC. I'll find that perfectly normal and not be surprised by that in any way. But if I turn on a computer and find Metro in full screens with all tiles and weather and stuffs, I'll shake my head and wonder what is this and why I don't have the desktop we are all used to see on every computers. What's for a unification if it's to run the desktop anyway?

everything that anyone complains about is either a start button or booting from the desktop. Easy as that. 3rd Party fixes, hello!?

 

[PaulGo]

Even Samsung recognizes without a start menu selling a PC with Windows 8 would have problems!

Samsung attempts to revive the Windows 8 Start Menu with new S Launcher widget

​

Samsung has revealed that it plans to package an S Launcher application on its Windows 8 PCs that will mimic the Windows 7 Start Menu on Microsoft's new operating system. Mashable got a chance to play around with the new launcher and reports that it's a floating desktop widget that provides access to shortcuts and system functions. You can click on the launcher and start typing in the same way the existing Windows 7 Start Menu works.
Microsoft decided to kill off the Windows 8 Start Menu and Start button in its latest operating system, a decision it made due to telemetry data obtained from the company's Customer Experience Improvement Program. The software giant found that Start menu usage had dropped and decided to remove the visual element in Windows 8. Most of the existing Start menu functionality is replaced with Microsoft's new Start Screen. Although Samsung is clearly replicating the old style Start Menu, other third parties have also released tools to bring it and the button back.

Samsung attempts to revive the Windows 8 Start Menu with new S Launcher widget | The Verge

 

[lehnerus2000]

The comment "If you’re using Metro apps, there is no clock" clearly shows he's not used Windows 8 for a month.

Considering how much wasted space there is on the "Metro Screen" (and the constant clap trap about "Live Tiles") why wasn't a clock integrated into it, just like on the "Lock Screen" (or as a "Live Tile")?

...
You strike me as one of those Windows XP like people that stayed till XP was put to death by Microsoft.

Still at least a year to go.

 

[Night Hawk]

Yeah. I'm going to buy W8 because like in all previous releases, there is something that sucks. Excellent logic, Robert. Are you programmer by any chance?

I did not mean it in that way, I said that people say something sucks, when in fact it's actually good. And yes, I am a programmer.

While that is always true. The /meaningful/ content is in how MANY people are saying it sucks. When 50% of your customers say your new product sucks, that's significant.

In comparison, XP, 7 and even the Vista "Whiners" were somewhat minor in number compared to the 8 case.

Windows 8 is good... for tablets and phones (We assume and hope) and barely functional desktop usage (If Metro is all you ever need from a desktop, you don't need a desktop). It is a rather horrific interface for anyone that wants to customise their computer to their own working needs and aesthetic desires and or has serious work to do on it.

The lack of "flexibility" is evident as with any new release at first sight. Even with the previous versions it took a bit for new customizations to be worked out while MS went ahead and simply complicated the task even further!

As far as past versions XP stung as the BSOD special and Vista's actual minimum requirements were understated to allow OEMs to get away with underequipping new systems! Instead of 512mb for the 32bit it should have been 2gb while now you see new 7 pcs with 4gb and 64bit with 6-8gb since the OEMs said "oops! the consumer has smartened up to us!".

At first I hesitated to move up from 95 to 98SE! 98 felt a bit sssslowwwww..... like many felt about Vista coming from the XP generation. Yet 98 lasted until finally hardwares no longer supported the XP/98 dual boots!

So far too much of the old stuff still on will not run even install on 8 while over time excepted losses of older wares is the norm. Can't run too much Legacy stuff these days either!

The goal of Metro is to unify the experience so it doesn't what matter platform you access the experience is familiar.

If someone lend me his/her smartphone or another intelligent device significantly smaller than a laptop, I will expect a very different UI than the one on my PC. I'll find that perfectly normal and not be surprised by that in any way. But if I turn on a computer and find Metro in full screens with all tiles and weather and stuffs, I'll shake my head and wonder what is this and why I don't have the desktop we are all used to see on every computers. What's for a unification if it's to run the desktop anyway?

I think most are well past the Start screen dilemna at this point accepting the 3rd party needed idea while the going around in circles trying to locate all Control Panel items is more frustrating once you have things pinned to the taskbar, RocketDock, or created new addon Quick Lauch type tool bars coming from the main task bar. In most cases you can simply adopt how any new version would work except for what MS has done to 8 leading everyone around in circles!

The idea of incorporating touchscreen technology into Windows would otherwise be considered a move in the right direction to offer more capabilities while MS on the other hand decided to strip away fearures and slap the mobile on the desktop and call it the new desktop OS???! As far as the negative reactions to 8 so far the percentage is much higher then 50% when you go out and ask the average Windows user deciding whether or not to upgrade and then something "STRANGE"! "who the what is that?"

 

[Fredledingue]

everything that anyone complains about is either a start button or booting from the desktop. Easy as that. 3rd Party fixes, hello!?

The W8/Metro concept is so successfull that it's the fashion for IT companies to release patches that kills it. Release your own anti-Metro fix and you get free publicity for your company. Then there are poeple still asking if W8 will be a success... :dazed:

I did not mean it in that way, I said that people say something sucks, when in fact it's actually good.

No you didn't mean it like this but in effect that's how it is: Every version of Windows got bashed hard for a reason. Unless you pretend that XP was safe and that Vista was no bloat.

I think most are well past the Start screen dilemna at this point accepting the 3rd party needed idea

Yes, why complaining while there are so many 3rd party softwares to do what you want. It's true. I'm not even sarcastic. But, again, how can pundits say that W8 is a success if the most popular software installed on it is a patch to redo what Metro/Start Screen/No Start menu etc undid? How can it be a success if the ery concept of it is being turned down by every one? Will Micrososft's telemetry record how many poeple are installed Start8 or similar patch? I'd bet they intentionaly do not record that in their telemetry and don't want to know.

 

[Night Hawk]

It makes it difficult to say any version is a success when you have to go the extra lengths to put on 3rd party apps to replace what Windows already should be having in it. Yet MS made a big one by the way they are bringing everything in with one big "Dump on You" move rather then nursing people in through a progression of advancements which for insuring guaranteed interest in coming versions to follow would be there.

People expect to see a certain level of changes with each new version to begin with. That part is not a failure. But to simply come out with an entirely different type of OS only calling it Windows is where the main beef is! When Aero came out with Vista the look and feel was obviously different while you still knew it was what?

Another version of "Windows" is what you saw then! This time however MS decided to make some radical changes where most will start bashing on first sight! One area MS slipped up besides the Metro however is a look back at 7 and Vista when comparing "backward compatibility". The 32bit 7 for example will work often with XP device drivers while they wouldn't on Vista and many are having problems with 7 drivers on 8! 7 saw MS push for driver support but not this time around!

The leap in that area is evident since many with laptops are finding themselves stuck since their OEM support doesn't offer any beta drivers for anything even at this late portion of the development now having reached RTM! Where is the 3rd party support? The things that made the 7 world go round are still lacking while some companies are finally getting the act together with newer versions of some programs that support 8. DisplayFusion, UltraMon, Acronis T.I. 2013 now available are a few.

One thing to make you laugh will be knowing I downloaded 7 beta drivers at the end of 2008 in prep for the then coming 7 beta a month later. In 2012 when going for the latest update for the sound card on this build being the same model I discovered I still had been using the same old "7 beta driver set"!

Gee but no 8 beta drivers still? hhmmm...

 

[Darryl Licht]

I agree with much of what has been said here in this thread... I'm pretty sure Microsoft measures an OS success by watching sales and the almighty buck! Let me preface by letting you all know I've been in this game for nearly 30 years. DOS 5/Windows 2 era. I'm a teacher of Computer Science, system and network consultant, system builder, gamer, overclocker, designated "go to" tech for over 100 users... and more!

MS is once again trying to take a bite outta Steve Jobs, er Apple. By going this route with their new "catch all devices" OS, MS is attempting to break into the tablet and smart phone market in a big way. Force feeding the consumer a cross platform/device OS. I've fiddled around with the betas, and I dislike this OS highly! Specifically the UI/Metro...

The MS telemetry must be from average or below average users... The ones with a hundred icons on the desktop who cant configure or even install anything! Typically those who post here are clearly above average PC users or Power Users. I fear the dummying down of anything, especially an OS. The users who do what we do, use every aspect of an OS, we like our start menus and Admin Tools, etc. Isnt there a poll on the UI? Where is our data?

MS has a long history with OS flops that seem to follow a good/bad cycle with a few exceptions over the last 18 years: Win9x=Good, WinME=Bad, WinXP=Good, WinVista=Bad, Win7=Good... see where I'm going with this?

I too believe this OS may be the biggest MS OS Flop since ME! I will "play" with it, but I will not use it over Win7 as a daily user! I will also advise the same to my clients. Unless.. Win8 SP1 changes a lot!

 

[Night Hawk]

I wouldn't say Vista was anywhere near as bad as the labeling that took! MS made the BIG GOOBER of understating the actual hardware requirements as far as memory was concerned as well as pulled Fat support out of it. Generally you wouldn't think nothing of losing Fat support since 9x is long gone until you start working with flash drives, SD cards for cameras, cell phones, external hard drives coming with exFat for cross compatibility with both Windows and Mac out of the box, etc.

Well 7 saw Fat return as well as an entirely redeveloped MinWin kernel which by the way makes 8 the second version to take advantage of what 7 brought in with a new face however. One must are finding objectionable! The first react was "what's this now a mobile OS?" is what you hear from just about everyone at first sight!

Apparently MS is in a form of denial as to what the bulk of desktop users in general business or private expect as well as want to see in the OS! Despite core improvements they suddenly trashed the desktop OS following their best version yet one that works without a need of a ton of updates and SPs! It took three SPs to simply get XP to some acceptable point while many rave about it it was in serious shaped for all those years exploitable to any malware or security problems!

Vista actually brought in the first level of real security which saw the awkward UAC! That was better in 7 with the slider bar option rather then only seeing a check box to disable! 8 sees a reworked MS SEssentials lying dormant once a regular av program is installed to replace the totally worthless old original Windows Defender which never did anything!

The best possible move MS could have made while still wanting to leap into the mobile market fire would have been to develop a variation of 8 for touchscreen and more versatile to mobile application while still maintaining an updated desktop OS people could live with! Instead they simply jam Metro at everybody saying "this is the way it will be! Too bad if you don't like it! You still will need a new Windows some time! We'll still get you!"

 

[Darryl Licht]

The best possible move MS could have made while still wanting to leap into the mobile market fire would have been to develop a variation of 8 for touchscreen and more versatile to mobile application while still maintaining an updated desktop OS people could live with! Instead they simply jam Metro at everybody saying "this is the way it will be! Too bad if you don't like it! You still will need a new Windows some time! We'll still get you!"

You are right... Vista was nowhere near as bad as the press made it out to be! However, the press is a powerful sales tool... Vista gained few adoptions/upgrades from XP because of this. Most Vista users got it on a new PC!

I also agree that a Metro UI is being rammed down our throats, this UI is cumbersome for anyone like me who has used Windows for over 20 years! I think in the end MS will see the error of their focus groups and the associated telemetry, sales will be dismal, and Win8 will gain a "START" button and menu like its older siblings. MS Leave Metro, but give us our old START button, menus and a way to shut off metro on the devices we wish to.

I predict Apple will gain 10% market share in installed OS by end of 2013 thanks to Win8 (currently at approx 6%)! MS cannot simply cram this in our faces, we will revolt at the cash register! Even the low price shows how nervous MS must be with this new OS and it's Metro-sexual interface... :0

 

[mart4494]

I was going to 'upgrade' to W8 and keep it in the drawer. But it's now a firm no on my part - I'll keep the $$'s in my wallet.

There is simply no benefit to installing 8 on my desktop and laptop. Maybe (although I doubt it) should I ever acquire a Win phone or tablet then that may be a different scenario.

For the record, there are focus groups and err focus groups - are they truly representative. I very much doubt it. As has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum, MS are suffering from Apple envy. They've seen how much the fruit company earns and want a slice of the action. Problem is Apple is a fashion accessory in many cases and the call reliability of their iPhone sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. But it is an Apple so in many folks eyes is a must have piece of equipment. MS are not in that league.

Steve Jobs was a great marketing guy whatever my personal thoughts are towards Apple. How Apple will fair now Jobs has gone is a different scenario. They will earn several bucks from their legal dept's efforts but that will soon run out. All empires fail eventually and Apple is not immune to this fact of life.

I just wish MS had marketed W8 for what it is - a Metro program for phones and tablets. Stop the nonsense (imo) that it is suitable for desktop and laptop.

 

[Fredledingue]

Microsoft expert testing W8...

---

 

[Darryl Licht]

Ahhhhh a Start Menu... LOL!!!

Did a lot of tweaking to Win8 Pro RTM today. Its much better with a Start Menu, thanks to the open source community over at www.sourceforge.org and the Classic Shell app. However it still lacks some of the fine tuning I could do with a Start menu in Win7.

MS if the open source community can do it.... Please add back in the option of a Win7 style Start menu/button! PLEASE!

Since I still feel Win8 is an oddball here's what I did with Classic Shell:




I am so far impressed most of all with the improvements to IE10, namely the lack of a need to update Adobe Flash anymore thanks to integration/cooperation between the SW giants! Adobes website tells you to check compatibility settings in ie10...



Also, IE will now auto update by default...



While a great job on IE 10... we can all download that soon onto our Win7 machines. I don't see a compelling reason to make the switch... EVEN IF MS adds a Start Button/Menu I doubt it on any production machine of mine... perhaps a laptop for presentations. I have Win7 running on several PC's that are on 24/7/365 (yes, a weekly reboot)... it's a rock solid OS!

 

[mdmd]

@ Fredledingue: That's a smart monkey !!!

@Darryl Licht: The desktop of 8 and underlying improvements are worth a couple of large pizza's to me.
I like the single screen large apps like "the Big Picture" and many others.
There are many free apps. And there will be many more. It is a totally fantastic mega multi tasking system with thumb nailing and app snapping, dual monitor (start on one and desktop on another) setups, edge UI tools, winx menu seals the deal for me. The tiling feature has a flex feel to it and the all apps area when group blocked is very neat. Pinning and unpinning is very quick, faster than legacy. It may take some time for installation development that puts only significant tiles on the start screen and the rest in the all apps area. I totally use the libraries every day and think that the capability to instantly pin links to the start screen is awesome.

 

[Night Hawk]

The best possible move MS could have made while still wanting to leap into the mobile market fire would have been to develop a variation of 8 for touchscreen and more versatile to mobile application while still maintaining an updated desktop OS people could live with! Instead they simply jam Metro at everybody saying "this is the way it will be! Too bad if you don't like it! You still will need a new Windows some time! We'll still get you!"

You are right... Vista was nowhere near as bad as the press made it out to be! However, the press is a powerful sales tool... Vista gained few adoptions/upgrades from XP because of this. Most Vista users got it on a new PC!

I also agree that a Metro UI is being rammed down our throats, this UI is cumbersome for anyone like me who has used Windows for over 20 years! I think in the end MS will see the error of their focus groups and the associated telemetry, sales will be dismal, and Win8 will gain a "START" button and menu like its older siblings. MS Leave Metro, but give us our old START button, menus and a way to shut off metro on the devices we wish to.

I predict Apple will gain 10% market share in installed OS by end of 2013 thanks to Win8 (currently at approx 6%)! MS cannot simply cram this in our faces, we will revolt at the cash register! Even the low price shows how nervous MS must be with this new OS and it's Metro-sexual interface... :0

They'll feel the crunch alright! As far as Vista it did have it's own share of mistakes but besides the media MS made the largest goober of not being correct on the actual minimum system requirements which ironically were correct with 7 being the same! The 32bit Vista on 512mb? We all know XP even ran better with 2gb installed!

The only thing cross platform you actually find that works out is either GParted live for cd or Partition Wizard also live from cd independent of the OS being run on a particular machine. If and I saw if MS is trying to make 8 into a universal for mobile, usb flash drive, Windows Phone, Tablet, and desktop they are way off track as far as having a "totally flexible" gui to work with!

The lack of options for any type of standard desktop or touchscreen gui was left out. And the desktop concept is certainly lost with the Metro intended for the mobile platform. As far as IE 10 however I would say MS got it right there since 9 is... ??? blah saaa and I miss IE 8 but switched to the 64bit WaterFox for the time being until 10 is out. Well 9 was the first to bring in HTLM5 and with MS the first can often be the worst at times!

Microsoft expert testing W8...

---

Funny how a lot can said in one picture alone! As far as 8 is concerned that suits the bill correctly!

 

[mdmd]

Very funny, but rather silly. Who said the 8 metro (Windows 8) is intended for the mobile platform? My desktop is not mobile.

 

[Night Hawk]

Very funny, but rather silly. Who said the 8 metro (Windows 8) is intended for the mobile platform? My desktop is not mobile.

Tablet PC is more or less closest to the mobile as is Windows Phone 8! Touchscreen support is another idea behind the Metro by introducing that type of gui.

The real problem however is how MS decided to bring it trashing the standardized destkop concept completely after the hugh success 7 is seeing! And for those who think simply skipping over 8 for 9 or whatever is to come later are likely going to be in for a big surprise as some blog writers are now speculating. Windows 8: Hate It Already? Why Waiting for Windows 9 Won't Help | PCWorld

 

[mdmd]

The desktop is not trashed. 7 is relatively new and will be supported for years! The 8 desktop ... is it all about the start menu? How about the winx menu? Not intuitive? The rest is pinning and unpinning. Do you really believe the suits at MS are that stupid? Not you NH, but is it really about you (the critic), always about you? Won't the average bloke be able to have a go at 8 and the metro or is it always all about the "serious desktop professional?"

 

[therealjustin]

I know some may appreciate the fact that Aero Glass is gone but I do not. The flat look is so damn boring, and seeing as I spend all of my time in Windows on a desktop it makes no sense to sacrifice visual effects when my GTX 560Ti is more than capable. Just because somewhere in the world someone wants to use a five year old netbook with Windows 8 doesn't mean we should all have to lose Aero Glass.


I know... It's just transparency. But it's something I rather liked and with it gone Windows 8 ends up looking like W7 starter edition. And I think it really did ad to the open feel in Vista and 7. Microsoft's excuse that transparency is "cheesy and dated" is pretty pathetic and extremely disappointing to hear from the Windows team.


And that's just one small complaint that actually does matter to some people. Pile on the "not-Metro" interface and the incredibly stupid idea of not having a proper Start menu and by all accounts this thing is already a flop. At least Vista gave us new ideas. Windows 8 is just taking things away.

 

[xpclient]

Its much better with a Start Menu, thanks to the open source community over at www.sourceforge.org and the Classic Shell app. However it still lacks some of the fine tuning I could do with a Start menu in Win7.

What "fine tuning" do you find lacking in Classic Shell that the Windows 7 Start Menu had? It has far more settings than Windows 7's menu ever had.