This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

[gregrocker]

That any user would have to go through this to have a tolerable desktop experience only points to the foolishness of forcing a touch screen OS on desktop users, who will not tolerate a wall of buttons slamming down on their work to access Start menu functions, not when they already had the best OS ever.

This is a completely false argument. No user *HAS* to do this. Windows 8 is 100% completely usable as it is out of the box...

I should have clarified again that my issue is with the decision of OEM's to release all new PC's with Win8 when it is not at all intuitive or even workable for a productive desktop environment. They apparently are doing this without any downgrade rights as though WIn7 is already a dead OS.

Hence I wanted to see what all was involved to make a productive 8 desktop experience based on having come to learn what is most appreciated in the Win7 desktop experience.

The context of this is best witnessed over at EightForums much busier sister SevenForums which has become the top tech forum on the web riding the tide of tens of millions of Win7 users who are only now fully discovering and falling in love with it.

Yet it appears consumers buying a new PC are to be offered no choice of the best OS ever but forced to buy a touchscreen OS when there is almost no demand for touchscreen desktops.

 

[jbfoster]

I like it when a new OS comes out. I like changes. After a while I get a little bored with the OS.

 

[Night Hawk]

SP1 corrected some of the initial bugs like not accurately reporting the actual amount of physical memory installed.

Actually, Vista did report the correct amount of Memory that the OS could use. Many people complained that they had more memory in the system than was displayed, and this was because Vista could not use that memory.

Finally, Microsoft relented and just displayed what was there, rather than what the OS could use. In effect, lying to us because we demanded it.

SP1 fixed the problem where it then showed 4gb of memory as the total amount of physical memory while only some 3.571gb was usable on the 32bit flavor. The other big bug about memory for the previous version was seen when having over 2gb on when installing the 64bit Vista and the need to remove all but 2gb to get it on. 7 cleaned all of this up where you can easily have 16gb installed and simply slap a fresh install of Windows on without fuss.

Now for the main beef about 8 the lack of options has most up in arms due to MS rushing at the Tablet they now have out and trying to see all editions run with the same gui. No options during setup or afterwards for the desktop user as well as no options to even change the background on the Start screen are a few things that have had most up in arms over the way MS is bringing it in.

Metro or "Modern" killers are in the works still and eventually someone will come up with a Start screen theme or wallpaper changer much like the boot splash screen and login screen changers previously seen. But that will take for those that won't simply opt for 3rd party bypass options. As always however it will be each to their own liking.

 

[Mystere]

I should have clarified again that my issue is with the decision of OEM's to release all new PC's with Win8 when it is not at all intuitive or even workable for a productive desktop environment. They apparently are doing this without any downgrade rights as though WIn7 is already a dead OS.

Windows 7 is not a dead OS. You do in fact have downgrade rights. Windows 7 will continue to be supported until 2019. However, you won't find PC's in the stores with Windows 7 (unless it's old stock), just like you won't find PC's with XP or Vista. OEM's always load the most recent OS, and that's what they support.

But supported, just means Microsoft will issue bug fixes and security patches. It doesn't mean anyone has to keep writing software that will work on it. As an example, there is still no IE 10 for Windows 7.

Most new software will be Metro based, which means that if you run Windows 7, you will not be able to run most new software. That's just all there is to it. I know what you're going to say.. "No way, why would anyone write new software for Metro when most users can't run it?" Well, it's only most users right now. As the tablet and phone markets take off, the same apps run on all three systems, and that means a potential market 5-10x the size of the existing Windows desktop market.

Yet it appears consumers buying a new PC are to be offered no choice of the best OS ever but forced to buy a touchscreen OS when there is almost no demand for touchscreen desktops.

Windows 8 is not a Touchscreen OS. It's a Touchscreen *FRIENDLY* OS. It's very usable with a mouse and keyboard, and if you gave it a chance, you might see that. Lots of the people on this board that thought like you have come around to realize that this was wrong thinking.

 

[gregrocker]

You do in fact have downgrade rights.

Link?

 

[Mystere]

Really? Let me google that for you

 

[Night Hawk]

Most new desktops as well as laptops will be equipped with touchscreen displays for those running 8. These systems by HP and others won't be seeing any driver support for previous versions since totally new hardwares will be in use with the exception of Dell and their option if still seen for choosing the OS. Even that was only made available after Vista came out.

The Modern gui as MS calls it according to one source was designed for Surface Tablet but automatically applied it to a desktop version they called 8. You can't get around that one! They wanted all new systems to look alike even if the gui is not actually suitable for point and click without providing any options for the user to begin with.

Most are not running desktops with touchscreen monitors to begin with if they are simply upgrading to 8 from any previous version. And that's where MS made a big goof of not seeing the RT gui avaiable as an option for those who do have touchscreen displays or large presentation screens.

I can imagine a good number of people have already called into MS with complaints! "Hey what is this stuff?" While some will like it simply because it is "The New Thing" for those still relying on point and click it is awkward to begin with and this is what you get!

The big fail 8 will see is the lack of options for the point and click majority of users. MS could have implimented a new look for 8 and still allowed some form of workable solution for the desktop releases. But their focus was geared at the new line of Surface Tablets trying to push the same gui off onto people running desktop expecting people to trash 7 in favor of what???

So far 8 has been nothing but a go between 7 and the next viable desktop version as to how MS is saying: "Hey we still have something you can run. But you will have to accept the gui we use on our new Tablets or go without!"

 

[gregrocker]

Really? Let me google that for you

The link refers to retail Windows 8 Pro purchases. Wouldn't that leave out almost anyone who purchases a PC with pre-installed Win8?

If 8F maintains the standards that made 7F the top tech forum on the web, snide bullies don't last for long. There's not a one who survived there - usually for more than a week.

 

[Mystere]

Really? Let me google that for you

The link refers to retail Windows 8 Pro purchases, which leaves out almost anyone who purchases a PC with preinstalled Win8.

If 8F maintains the standards that made 7F the top tech forum on the web, your snide and bullying behavior won't last for long.

I think you need to brush up on your reading skills. It talks repeatedly about "New PC's" and OEM versions. In fact, I can't find ANYTHING in the article talks about a retail version of the OS.

Perhaps what you really meant was that it doesn't include the non-pro version. This is the same as it was in Windows 7, Vista, and XP. Only the pro versions have downgrade rights. So if you want to downgrade, you must purchase a Pro Upgrade for your Windows 8 copy, then you are entitled to install Windows 7 Pro as a replacement.

Upgrading from 8 to Pro is just a matter of changing the product key.

By the way, I find your comment about snide behavior particularly amusing given the fact that you were the one that said:

That any user would have to go through this to have a tolerable desktop experience only points to the foolishness of forcing a touch screen OS on desktop users, who will not tolerate a wall of buttons slamming down on their work to access Start menu functions, not when they already had the best OS ever.

Snide and bullying indeed. After all, you patently stated there were no downgrade rights, which was false. And when I stated otherwise, you demanded I provide links to something that was so easily googlable that it was obvious you never even tried. Then, after all was said and done, you tried to shift the goalposts and claim the article said something it clearly did not.

I don't mind helping people, but if you're going to make demands of me, then I expect you to have made an effort yourself. Thus my lmgtfy link.

 

[Night Hawk]

I think the ZDNet article here may clear up a few things regarding changes MS made over the 7 licensing including being able to install 8 on VMs or on the next new machine you build yourself. Microsoft radically overhauls license agreements for Windows 8 | ZDNet

Here's one other thing namely the download link for the pdf version of the Microsoft Software License Agreement Windows 8

 

[gregrocker]

That you would equate your rude dismissal of others passionate opinions here with my skepticism of a touchscreen OS on non-touchscreens is either laughable or dishonest. Are you saying I bullied Win8?

Almost every home PC comes with the standard OS, not Pro. Thus the way many/most consumers get their OS by buying a PC will cause them to be stuck with Win8 on non-touchscreens, until MS and the OEM's realize this is a debacle and allow an effective upgrade to the vastly better Desktop experience of Win7.

What's the alternative - a black market for a 3 year old wildly-popular OS?

I'm finished with your creepy ankle-biting. I'll come back here when Win7 actually loses popularity by consumer demand and not by being strangled in its crib before it's popularity has even peaked.

 

[DMGrier]

If I may say I like Windows 8 Metro and look forward to MS and other companies porting the software to Metro. I would also feel confident in saying that the average Joe feels the same since from what I have read on google that the MS store and Amazon has had great success in sales and bestbuy put in 50,000 hours in to training there personnel for Windows 8.

 

[Brink]

   Warning

Let's stop being rude and keep this discussion friendly shall we before I need to take more permanent actions to stop it.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

I'm sort of getting sick of reading this muck. LETS really break this down:
What is an Operating System?
A) Access point to our programs?
B) Something so cool I can use my creativity to make it look better than my friends?
C) Something I can handsome frog about till the next version of Windows comes into my hand?
D) Who gives a rubbish I have work to get done!

Now look at A thru D and go back to Windows 3.1 and all the way up to Windows 8 and see where these choices fit before you give your answer.

 

[mart4494]

I'm sort of getting sick of reading this muck. LETS really break this down:
What is an Operating System?
A) Access point to our programs?
B) Something so cool I can use my creativity to make it look better than my friends?
C) Something I can handsome frog about till the next version of Windows comes into my hand?
D) Who gives a rubbish I have work to get done!

Now look at A thru D and go back to Windows 3.1 and all the way up to Windows 8 and see where these choices fit before you give your answer.

Walk away from this thread then Mike. Win8 has triggered more polarized opinions than any OS I can remember. There appears to be no middle ground over this so it's become one of those you're either for Win8 or against it.

There's no point in getting high blood pressure over it. If folks want to use Win8 then fine. If they want to use Win7 then also fine. If they want to go to Linux or with iFriut then that's also fine.

Personally I'd use a Linux distro but I need to use Adobe and Wine simply doesn't play well with it. The thought of jumping between OS's or running at snails pace with VM doesn't appeal so I'll stick with what I've got.

I've managed to chill out over the whole Win8 issue especially trying to second guess what the MS motives were or were not.

 

[z3r010]

I think at 164 pages this thread has run out of steam and it's time to kill it off (not something I do very often).

Thread closed.