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This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.


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Night Hawk

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Vista was a flop so far as technical use and stability for the most part, but not as a revenue failure for MS. We know that and so did/does MS. However, they did make up for it with 7 in a very timely manner to make what? More revenue.
To the contrary! Vista was actually far more stable and secure then XP ever thought of being plus lacked the high volume of fixes needed to make it into a strong OS! In fact many who tried 7 simply ended going back and staying with it!

7 in the end was the "OS you can run out of the box" seeing less need for error fixing! MS put far more effort into seeing things done right from the start rather then the flop of XP SP3 1,000 fixed long awaited for and the misstatement of minimum system specs required allowing OEMs to sell undergrade systems with Vista preinstalled ending up with negative reaction.

As far as opinions there are as many as there are members on 8F! :D I knew from the start you would be hearing all sorts of them!
I'm sure you are absolutely correct from your point of view in the ascent, deviation, and/or declination of OSs. I'll admit you and others here and elsewhere are far more savvy when it comes to computer technicalities and experience.

I jumped from 98SE on a Gateway to a new PC preloaded with Vista, so I don't know all the rest in between, although I heard from friends and read here and there about them. I'm a builder and was using a PC to run a business. So far as I'm concerned I was spending more time fixing the damn OS and other software running on it than I was using it. So from my point of view it was a flop. I was quite happy and relieved with 7 and continue to be.

That's not an opinion -> That's a fact!
I ran 98SE here for some time even in a dual boot with XP. I soon missed 98 when newer boards and sound cards no longer saw "any" updates period to simply look back at some of those old Legacy titles!

Vista came in aa a much larger OS from start for you. You were fortunate to bypass XP while not so much 2000 Pro which would have been a good option years back to move up from 98. As far as 7 just about everybody knows how well that turned out! :thumbsup:

As for 8 that was an instant disappointment here with the first look on. I still have it on a VM and plan to see another isolated stand alone install to try some ideas out. But to see it replace 7? Not in this life time!
 

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rich4421972

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I find that the more I use Metro, the more I am charmed by it. I think this will be the case with a lot of people. If your computer is what you use for work, you might eventually look at Win8 from a productivity standpoint and not from that of a hobbyist.

It is natural for the hobbyist to dislike everything that arrives on the market without his/her personal approval. The rest of us just need to find out where Outlook and Word are and we can very well go from there. It is unfortunate that Metro has taken the spotlight away from other features that could be real positives (NTFS 5, security essentials, improvements to web browsing).
 

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R0bR

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I believe this shows that reviewer dislikes Windows 8 and gives reasons why it will not be successful.
He dislikes the UI changes of Windows 8, he clearly states that other than the UI changes Windows 8 is Windows 7 and more. Also, at no time does he mention that Windows 8 will not be successful, he gives reasons why Windows 7 is still a great OS.

The article sums things up quite accurately with the theme of 8 being a "Flop"! With one look most have simply called it quits when it comes to considering any upgrade to 8!
And where does he mention this in the article? Nowhere.

The hesitance by the corporate world to upgrade versions isn't based on just waiting for the SP1 either. The time and money invested into existing softwares like office wares, 100s of workstations, etc. may simply be not within their present budget as well as the reworking of any special wares developed for their particular business that would need to see all new versions.
Well obviously, but the point remains it has less to do with Windows 8 or Metro than it does the points you outlined above.
 

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Night Hawk

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It depends on which article you are referring to. The majority of users especially those who have grown fond of 7 seem to find the Metro or should I saw "Modern" gui a joke! On the other hand some who have gotten past the gui change and trashed desktop look 8 is bringing in they got to the other things which they thought was an improvement but at more or less the core level.

I'm hearing that from a few running the 8 Pro edition. Here 7 became the actual success story when the 32bit 7 could run every XP program and even XP drivers but was the far more stable and secure OS. As for the supposed performance improvement 8 does or doesn't see it was hardly even noticable when placing both 7 and 8 on two separate drives.

As far as NTFS 5.0 you ran that on 2000, XP , Vista, and 7. rich4421972 You may want a look at a 1998 MSDN blog about it. A File System for the 21st Century: Previewing the Windows NT 5.0 File System--MSJ, November 1998
 

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HippsieGypsie

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As far as NTFS 5.0 you ran that on 2000, XP , Vista, and 7. rich4421972 You may want a look at a 1998 MSDN blog about it. A File System for the 21st Century: Previewing the Windows NT 5.0 File System--MSJ, November 1998
Thanks, Night Hawk. I didn't realize that NTFS was created that far back. If anything was a great innovation in computing, it was the NTFS file system. So that was the huge difference I noticed in performance. I jumped from 98SE on an old gateway to Vista on my new PC here. As you can see, hardware was a difference, but the file system is what actually made the bigger difference.

Thanks again. I learned something tonight. :geek:
 

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hostelo

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first day i was lost like gilligan (I also had to google how to shut down haha)
i had to find and search for everything like the topic creater mentioned

second and third day you start to get the hang and feel of it
after a week im moving around quite nicely

only thing I hate about it is that WMP is gone and my beloved Media Browser is no longer compatible :(

you have to get used to it. i could call myself a seasoned computer user and know my way around a computer
for someone who doesn't know how to use em to much I can see were this can be very complicated for them

Its nowhere near what windows ME or Vista were of being completely and utterly broken.

Windows 8 is not bad or broken. its just different.

I say.......lets give it a chance
 

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HippsieGypsie

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first day i was lost like gilligan (I also had to google how to shut down haha)
i had to find and search for everything like the topic creater mentioned

second and third day you start to get the hang and feel of it
after a week im moving around quite nicely

only thing I hate about it is that WMP is gone and my beloved Media Browser is no longer compatible :(

you have to get used to it. i could call myself a seasoned computer user and know my way around a computer
for someone who doesn't know how to use em to much I can see were this can be very complicated for them

Its nowhere near what windows ME or Vista were of being completely and utterly broken.

Windows 8 is not bad or broken. its just different.

I say.......lets give it a chance
Well stated, hostelo. Welcome to EF. Good to have you! :)
 

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brad55590

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first day i was lost like gilligan (I also had to google how to shut down haha)
i had to find and search for everything like the topic creater mentioned

second and third day you start to get the hang and feel of it
after a week im moving around quite nicely

only thing I hate about it is that WMP is gone and my beloved Media Browser is no longer compatible :(

you have to get used to it. i could call myself a seasoned computer user and know my way around a computer
for someone who doesn't know how to use em to much I can see were this can be very complicated for them

Its nowhere near what windows ME or Vista were of being completely and utterly broken.

Windows 8 is not bad or broken. its just different.

I say.......lets give it a chance
I agree fully. I'm sooo glad there are people that actually like Win 8.

I'm currently running the MSDN release and have been since it was released and I haven't had a single problem.

Yes it's different, but that's good. imagine if you were still running win98 style, I know a few people still do, because they want better performance, but our PC's would be boring.

Gaming on Win 8 is awesome, and works well. I can say that the only prob I had with Win8 was MS some how messed up my live account but once that was sorted, Smartglass syncs to my xbox perfectly. My settings are syncing to my laptop and desktop PC with no hassles. Yes, Metro IE sucks, and Chrome has a few issues being that it sometimes tries to launch into Metro style, but other than that, i think MS have done an awesome job.

Im busy building a new gaming PC and will put it to its full test, with Visual Studio 2012 and developing Metro Apps, and playing more games on it. But so far im happy.

If you willing to try NEW then you will enjoy win8, but if you going to keep running it down, well.... you will never like it.

Don't judge Win8 the first time you start it up, judge it after a week or two playing around with it.
 

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Max Peck

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first day i was lost like gilligan (I also had to google how to shut down haha)
i had to find and search for everything like the topic creater mentioned

second and third day you start to get the hang and feel of it
after a week im moving around quite nicely

only thing I hate about it is that WMP is gone and my beloved Media Browser is no longer compatible :(

you have to get used to it. i could call myself a seasoned computer user and know my way around a computer
for someone who doesn't know how to use em to much I can see were this can be very complicated for them

Its nowhere near what windows ME or Vista were of being completely and utterly broken.

Windows 8 is not bad or broken. its just different.

I say.......lets give it a chance
I think, despite all the frustration, that your last statement makes the most sense. While I don't particularly like some of the changes to the O/S myself it is obviously going to be functional. No, I'm not likely to rebuild my machine around it (I've got it in a VM now) but if I sat down to a machine running it I'm sure I could manage with it. It's just different, that's all. Let's see if MS can make their tablet market penetration with it or not.

As a developer my main concern is whether or not it will run the applications I develop for the desktop. It does that fine so, in the long run, it doesn't matter that much to me. I'll keep playing with it in the VM. If somehow my interest in it ever reaches critical mass then I'll use it. Otherwise it was fun to play with.

-Max
 

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rich4421972

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As far as NTFS 5.0 you ran that on 2000, XP , Vista, and 7. rich4421972 You may want a look at a 1998 MSDN blog about it. A File System for the 21st Century: Previewing the Windows NT 5.0 File System--MSJ, November 1998
The operative words, of course are "1998" and "blog."

Windows XP's filesystem was NTFS 3.1. MS added file encryption features (EFS) and long-name file support,and renamed it "5.0" to indicate that additional capabilities were made to the 3.1 on-disk format. "NTFS5", at that time, was just the 3.0 on-disk format enhanced with new features available to XP and 2000. The MSDN article does not apply in this case because it is touting the "new" features added to NTFS 3.0. The article is attempting to sell computers, not explain the niceties of the filesystem.

The "package" that we think of as "NTFS 5.1" has been upgraded and enhanced over the years, but the basic on-disk format of NTFS 3.1 has never changed since XP. It's a little bit of smoke and mirrors, but the consumer wins in the end.

The fifth version of NTFS for Vista/Longhorn was totally revamped for those systems. The version numbers represent extra features made possible by the operating system and not necessarily the disk format. According to MS's nomenclature, Vista/7/8 all use "NTFS 5.1" now. I wish I had used it with Windows XP! But I didn't. It would be physically impossible.

The 5.1 version of NTFS adds the transactional/atomic file management capability, partition resizing and the self-healing features. It also introduced the "new" file encryption services of "BitLocker." So, indeed, Vista's filesystem management had far more technical options than anything that preceded it.

I am very interested to know about filesystem features that have been added in Windows 8. I think that would be a major selling point for the OS.

I was really hoping somebody else was interested, too. Thanks for your reply.
 
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pparks1

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You never get a second chance to make a good first impression. This was something that plagued Vista out of the gate, it wasn't ready, and third party driver support wasn't there and it was released and it was scorned by tech guys everywhere. Even after it improved and was pretty solid, it never shook this initial image of being terrible. I expect Windows 8 could suffer a similar experience.

While under the hood, Windows 8 is solid and performs great, it's the outside shell (UI) that you have to work with that really has an impact on people. It's like a super reliable, yet ugly car. Many people simply won't buy it. I'm not saying Windows 8 is that ugly....but some people might have no love for it.
 

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phailyoor

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You never get a second chance to make a good first impression. This was something that plagued Vista out of the gate, it wasn't ready, and third party driver support wasn't there and it was released and it was scorned by tech guys everywhere. Even after it improved and was pretty solid, it never shook this initial image of being terrible. I expect Windows 8 could suffer a similar experience.
Totally true. This initial response I got from windows 8 was pretty terrible. It's been rock solid and functional for the last few months for me, but I think most users will never get over the start screen shock and the excruciatingly ugly desktop visuals.
 

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pparks1

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^ And to make matters worse, I don't think that many people are experiencing problems with Windows 7. Thus, they aren't in a mad dash to get off Windows 7.
 

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rich4421972

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While under the hood, Windows 8 is solid and performs great, it's the outside shell (UI) that you have to work with that really has an impact on people. It's like a super reliable, yet ugly car. Many people simply won't buy it. I'm not saying Windows 8 is that ugly....but some people might have no love for it.
This is an excellent point and is a great summary of this whole thread.

I think Vista was great (but maybe only for us hackers). --It was really good on paper. There are numerous intellectual reasons that it was a genius set-up, but, in the end, perhaps it was Aero that did it in. I

am more optimistic towards Metro because I do like it and that is my opinion. I haven't seemed to have experienced the same clunkiness that other users are getting.
 

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Kari

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PaulGo said:
While many PC makers saw the coming of Windows 8 as an opportunity for growth and increased competition against Apple, those feelings are slowly fading.
Of course, no need for a crystal ball to predict that: Who wants a desktop/tower PC with a cellphone monitor screen? The non sens at Redmond is stunning.
Robert said:
W8 will not die, it already has a lot of support.
=)) :D ROTFLMAO
Robert said:
It will become mainstream whether you like it or not, when it ships on every single new laptop and desktop.
If they do this you will see millions of poeple asking for a refund, returning the machine to the vendor, calling helpdesk or the computer stores... It will be an unmanageable situation. MS will be sued for delivering ill advertised products and the EU will fine them double digit billions just for the sake of it. The life of Metro on desktop PCs will be counted in weeks. Everybody will be laughing their lungs out. MS will be covered with ridicule.
This thread is full with posts like the one I have quoted above. Not wanting to quote them all, I just use this post as an example.

I would like to ask who has given these devil's advocates a permission to speak on behalf of me or other Windows users who happen to like Windows 8? The arrogance in some of these posts is something quite difficult to understand and accept. Like this statement:
Of course, no need for a crystal ball to predict that: Who wants a desktop/tower PC with a cellphone monitor screen? The non sens at Redmond is stunning.
WTF, I have to ask?

The Start GUI is, according to me and many others, one of the best things the Redmond geeks have produced. But, as this is a subjective opinion of mine, I wouldn't even dream to state that as a fact, like these trash-posters do with their personal opinions. I'd like to learn to understand how someone can think like that: "This is my opinion, ergo it must be a fact!".

How I have grown to like Start GUI! I swap it to secondary display, open my news ticker and messaging app there dividing screen between them, and continue working on main display. I do not use a touch screen but it is amazing how fast, accurate and easy I can use the start GUI with my mouse.

One thing I like in Windows Phone OS is that I can use this same, genial GUI on my phone!

The life of Metro on desktop PCs will be counted in weeks. Everybody will be laughing their lungs out.
This idiotic statement, like others like it, does not even deserve a response.

Kari
 

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phailyoor

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248
While under the hood, Windows 8 is solid and performs great, it's the outside shell (UI) that you have to work with that really has an impact on people. It's like a super reliable, yet ugly car. Many people simply won't buy it. I'm not saying Windows 8 is that ugly....but some people might have no love for it.
This is an excellent point and is a great summary of this whole thread. I think Vista was great (but maybe only for us hackers). --It was really good on paper. There are numerous intellectual reasons that it was a genius set-up, but, in the end, perhaps it was Aero that did it in. I am more optimistic towards Metro because I do like it and that is my opinion. I haven't seemed to have experienced the same clunkiness that other users are getting.
It was the mismatch of system requirements on paper and reality that did it in. Vista forever has a bad name because of it. I used to be a vista hater, especially when using it on a dirt cheap compaq laptop, and it was only after I got some quality time with vista on my quad core, 8GB ram, dual GPU gaming rig that I found out how good vista really was.(despite losing at least 10FPS on most games. 7 is no better though in that regard)
 

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BunnyJ

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@Kari,,, Totally agree with your points. I like Win 8 and Metro.. there I said it. It's new and different and that's cool in my book. In my book Win 8 will do just fine. YMMV
 

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Kari

Old geek, new tricks
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Thanks, Bunny.

However, my main point was this phenomena I really hate, stating your own subjective thoughts and opinions as absolute facts. You know what I mean, this "This is my opinion so it must be a fact".
 

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jimbo45

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Hi everyone

Most of the adverse comments in this thread have been about people used to previous versions of Windows -- well what about people buying their FIRST computer.

Now it took me ages and ages before I could even begin to THINK about using a smartphone -- for me a telephone was just that - you used it to make and receive calls - not even texts -- I still even today HATE the whole idea of texts and the horrendous degradation of sensible language (in any language - not just English) that makes reading any sort of "prose" from youngsters almost unreadable with their hideous "textese" and appalling lack of sentence construction. If I see any more "UR" or even worse "COULD CARE LESS" when they quite obviously mean "COULDN'T CARE LESS" then I just disregard the whole article and refer them to doing the 140 byte Twitter B/S.

(Where I'm from the plural of a TWEET in the nearest English translation is called a "flower" which makes presumably "TWEETERS" into "TWATS" which I'm reliably informed means something quite different in English). !

Using the Android phone to me makes the whole idea of tablets etc unnecessary -- the screen on the phone is large enough for what I would use a tablet for anyway-- even the E-reader application is sufficient to use for a shortish trip say 2 - 3hrs max.

The point of this is to say that being 100% totally new to these devices didn't take me long to start using them in all sorts of ways I would never have dreamed of -- and I'm no youngster either.

W8 will go through the same scenario - but it DOES need MS 100% to "De-Uglify" the whole start screen and tiles.

As I said I question why the start screen has to be so horrendously UGLY -- looking like some old "Dinosaur app" from an AOL screen of 25 years ago. I could easily point MS in the direction of some young graphic designers who could really lighten up the hideous start screen -- allowing the developers to get the functionality right - without bothering what the final screen would look like.


Other than that W8 won't be the doom and gloom people predict.

Cheers
jimbo
 
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