Navigating nightmare.

[Spaisekraft]

I don't think you need all these workarounds. For instance, a previous poster had to make shortcuts for shutdown, restart, etc.

That is because it only requires one click or touch.

Most people don't realize that you can access those by opening the charms menu (win+c) click settings, and at the bottom click Power for a list of options.

Takes more movements and time .

Win+C and then 2-3 clicks. On W7 it was WinKey, 2 clicks. It adds what, a fraction of a second? Are you really in that big of a rush to shut down your computer?

I don't know about you, but I shut my computer down maybe once per day. And does slowing your shut down experience by a fraction of a second decrease your productivity?

People are looking for things to complain about and will pick anything.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Cunning Button Arrangement

We can safely assume that you don't have a single item pinned to your "Taskbar".

"Taskbar" > Icon > left click.

Eh? I'm not sure what you're saying here. I don't pin applications to my taskbar, didn't in W7 either. On W7 I used Launchy to quickly open apps, but on W8 it's not needed. WinKey + the first few letters of the program name and then enter opens stuff extremely quickly.

I rest my case.
Typing a name, is not quicker, than clicking on an icon.

I found a good one ViStart: ViStart Download - Softpedia But warning, it will install a toolbar which can be uninstalled afterwards in the nromal manner.

The buttons on the installer are cunningly arranged, so that you will accidentally install it, even if you uncheck the check boxes.
The same thing is true on the following screen's crapware offer.

I tried it, but I couldn't figure out how to remove "Outlook Express" from the pinned list.
After I dismissed the Sys Tray icon, I couldn't make it reappear.

I reinstalled W8, because the driver for my onboard sound wouldn't install properly (it didn't fix the problem) so I don't have ViStart anymore more either.

 

[Spaisekraft]

Well. I am getting there, still needs some cleaning up. I have got most of my programs now in folder names that I am used to. View attachment 3678

I have to say, you did cover your whole display area with icons.

The "Metro" interface is completely at odds with how I use my computer. I don't see how it is an improvement or even neutral. It seems to be a misguided disaster. I would need to be taught how to use the thing, because I can't figure out how to use it to any advantage. On my Windows 7 system, my taskbar is three rows high and always visible, with the 50 or so programs I use most pinned to it. I've got a dozen folders to the side in a toolbar, six of which are reminiscent of old Program Manager folders, in that they contain links to all my installed programs I want to be able to run from the desktop, the remaining six folders being frequently accessed file folders. Then there's the notification area, with day name, date, and time, email notifications, etc. Pretty much everything I need is on screen all the time, including when I'm using a maximized program, which is most of the time, it takes up an acceptable amount of space, and it's the most productive interface I've used in 30+ years. It took them 14 years, but Microsoft finally got the taskbar right in Windows 7. But now it's no good, and they gotta replace it with something new and worse, just like a sneakers company. The "Metro" thing is a colossal stupid mode that you always have to traverse to get to things. It's the ugliest thing I've ever seen. It makes no sense on a desktop computer. I totally don't get it.

I just don't understand this at all. I open applications just as quickly as I did in W7. You can organize your start screen so much better than just a MASSIVE list of pinned apps in W7. Right now I only have a few programs and games installed, but you can see how the organization works: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/windows8startscreen1.png and the app screen which I almost never need to go into: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/appscreen.png

Just like using Unity in Ubuntu, if I ever need to venture further than the unity launcher for a program, I just Super key (Windows key) and type the program name and hit enter. This is so much more efficient.

 

[Spaisekraft]

We can safely assume that you don't have a single item pinned to your "Taskbar".

"Taskbar" > Icon > left click.

Eh? I'm not sure what you're saying here. I don't pin applications to my taskbar, didn't in W7 either. On W7 I used Launchy to quickly open apps, but on W8 it's not needed. WinKey + the first few letters of the program name and then enter opens stuff extremely quickly.

I rest my case.
Typing a name, is not quicker, than clicking on an icon.

I found a good one ViStart: ViStart Download - Softpedia But warning, it will install a toolbar which can be uninstalled afterwards in the nromal manner.

The buttons on the installer are cunningly arranged, so that you will accidentally install it, even if you uncheck the check boxes.
The same thing is true on the following screen's crapware offer.

I tried it, but I couldn't figure out how to remove "Outlook Express" from the pinned list.
After I dismissed the Sys Tray icon, I couldn't make it reappear.

I reinstalled W8, because the driver for my onboard sound wouldn't install properly (it didn't fix the problem) so I don't have ViStart anymore more either.

You don't HAVE to type a name. You can pin the app to your start screen JUST like you did with the W7 menu. You can even have the icon on your desktop.

What is so difficult to understand about this? Just like on the W7 start menu, you should only have a couple of frequently used apps pinned. If you've got a ton of apps pinned then you've completely defeated the purpose of the pinning function.

Right now on my start screen I've got 25 shortcuts to programs/webpages that I can open as quickly as hitting Windows key and clicking on the icon. How is that any different than hitting windows key and pressing a pinned list item on W7?

 

[crawfish]

I just don't understand this at all. I open applications just as quickly as I did in W7. You can organize your start screen so much better than just a MASSIVE list of pinned apps in W7. Right now I only have a few programs and games installed, but you can see how the organization works: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/windows8startscreen1.png and the app screen which I almost never need to go into: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/appscreen.png

Just like using Unity in Ubuntu, if I ever need to venture further than the unity launcher for a program, I just Super key (Windows key) and type the program name and hit enter. This is so much more efficient.

Believe me, I don't understand your post more. Your screenshots only reiterate what I said about "Metro" being a "colossal stupid mode". Worse, it's an endless scrolling display, as if someone unwrapped a massive tabbed dialog box and laid it all out linearly. Finally, as someone who spent years developing software inside a command shell where I had to type names, I don't want to return to remembering program names and typing them to run them, even with whatever completion is performed.

 

[lehnerus2000]

The problem with searching is ...

For Desktop users I agree this is very Counter intuitive but surely every man and his dog as has least ONE and probably TWO phones so people must be used to this way of working ...

Sorry.
I have less than "ONE and probably TWO phones".
I don't need one and I'm certainly not paying (a minimum of) $30/month to have one.

I just don't understand this at all. I open applications just as quickly as I did in W7. You can organize your start screen so much better than just a MASSIVE list of pinned apps in W7.

People that have organised their programs and files, don't need to use the search tool to find them.

There's no difference between, "a massive list of pinned icons in W7" and "a massive list of pinned tiles in W8", EXCEPT that you don't have to swap away from the screen you are working on in W7.

The problem with searching is you have to know what you are looking for (i.e. its name).

 

[Spaisekraft]

I just don't understand this at all. I open applications just as quickly as I did in W7. You can organize your start screen so much better than just a MASSIVE list of pinned apps in W7.

People that have organised their programs and files, don't need to use the search tool to find them.

There's no difference between, "a massive list of pinned icons in W7" and "a massive list of pinned tiles in W8", EXCEPT that you don't have to swap away from the screen you are working on in W7.

The problem with searching is you have to know what you are looking for (i.e. its name).

Now we're talking about the difference in seeing the desktop while you're in the start menu vs. not being able to, and that's ridiculous. The start screen is a much more organized way of pinning frequently used apps than pinning apps to the start menu in W7 was. Titles groups vs. a cluster of pinned programs.

And any applications you need to access beyond the large number you're capable of pinning to the start screen you can just visit the (admittedly) messy app screen, or type the name. I don't know about you, but in W7 I very, very rarely went into the all programs list to dig around for something.

So like I said, this is now a discussion about people being unhappy that they can't see the desktop while accessing their pinned applications from the start menu.

 

[Spaisekraft]

I just don't understand this at all. I open applications just as quickly as I did in W7. You can organize your start screen so much better than just a MASSIVE list of pinned apps in W7. Right now I only have a few programs and games installed, but you can see how the organization works: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/windows8startscreen1.png and the app screen which I almost never need to go into: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/appscreen.pngJust like using Unity in Ubuntu, if I ever need to venture further than the unity launcher for a program, I just Super key (Windows key) and type the program name and hit enter. This is so much more efficient.

Believe me, I don't understand your post more. Your screenshots only reiterate what I said about "Metro" being a "colossal stupid mode". Worse, it's an endless scrolling display, as if someone unwrapped a massive tabbed dialog box and laid it all out linearly. Finally, as someone who spent years developing software inside a command shell where I had to type names, I don't want to return to remembering program names and typing them to run them, even with whatever completion is performed.

I agree that the app screen (second screenshot) isn't optimal, but then again it's not much worse for organization than the old all programs list in W7. The only difference between the two was that in W7 is was very compact and everything was in collapsed folders. I think Microsoft did away with that because there's no use. Everything you frequently use should be pinned to the start screen (like in my first screenshot) or as an icon on your desktop. For me, the start screen is an afterthought, it just sits out of sight and out of mind until I need to very quickly launch something. Take a look at the first screenshot again, and tell me how you think the old start menu was better for listing your frequently used apps or what you've pinned. I am honestly interested, because to me it works perfectly. I mean, with this set up I never have to open the app list because everything I use frequently is on the start screen.

 

[lehnerus2000]

What is so difficult to understand about this?

Nothing.
Why can't you understand that one click is faster than two (or one plus typing)?
What is so difficult to understand about this?

Just like on the W7 start menu, you should only have a couple of frequently used apps pinned. If you've got a ton of apps pinned then you've completely defeated the purpose of the pinning function.

??????
The purpose of pinning is to expose your often used programs, for easy access.

Right now on my start screen I've got 25 shortcuts to programs/webpages that I can open as quickly as hitting Windows key and clicking on the icon. How is that any different than hitting windows key and pressing a pinned list item on W7?

That example is identical in both W7 and W8.

And any applications you need to access beyond the large number you're capable of pinning to the start screen you can just visit the (admittedly) messy app screen, or type the name. I don't know about you, but in W7 I very, very rarely went into the all programs list to dig around for something.

So like I said, this is now a discussion about people being unhappy that they can't see the desktop while accessing their pinned applications from the start menu.

I sort of agree with you on these points.

 

[Spaisekraft]

What is so difficult to understand about this?

Nothing.
Why can't you understand that one click is faster than two (or one plus typing)?
What is so difficult to understand about this?

Just like on the W7 start menu, you should only have a couple of frequently used apps pinned. If you've got a ton of apps pinned then you've completely defeated the purpose of the pinning function.

??????
The purpose of pinning is to expose your often used programs, for easy access.

Right now on my start screen I've got 25 shortcuts to programs/webpages that I can open as quickly as hitting Windows key and clicking on the icon. How is that any different than hitting windows key and pressing a pinned list item on W7?

That example is identical in both W7 and W8.

And any applications you need to access beyond the large number you're capable of pinning to the start screen you can just visit the (admittedly) messy app screen, or type the name. I don't know about you, but in W7 I very, very rarely went into the all programs list to dig around for something.


So like I said, this is now a discussion about people being unhappy that they can't see the desktop while accessing their pinned applications from the start menu.

I sort of agree with you on these points.

I understand that one click is faster than two clicks, but the only place where this applies is the lesser used stuff. Opening programs from the start menu is just as quick as it was before. The only problem (for some people) is that it takes up the entire desktop when using the start menu. Which of course is moot since you can still have icons on your desktop.


I was really only talking about the people that have 20 applications pinned to their start menu in W7. At that point you might as well just be opening the all programs list.


Yeah, it's identical, but this screen: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/windows8startscreen1.png would be much messier on W7.

 

[crawfish]

I agree that the app screen (second screenshot) isn't optimal, but then again it's not much worse for organization than the old all programs list in W7. The only difference between the two was that in W7 is was very compact and everything was in collapsed folders. I think Microsoft did away with that because there's no use. Everything you frequently use should be pinned to the start screen (like in my first screenshot) or as an icon on your desktop. For me, the start screen is an afterthought, it just sits out of sight and out of mind until I need to very quickly launch something. Take a look at the first screenshot again, and tell me how you think the old start menu was better for listing your frequently used apps or what you've pinned. I am honestly interested, because to me it works perfectly. I mean, with this set up I never have to open the app list because everything I use frequently is on the start screen.

I don't think you're understanding how I've set my Windows 7 system up. I described it very carefully in my first message, in case you want to review it. I didn't say anything about the Start Menu because I rarely use it or the Desktop because I rarely see it. I have no idea what you mean by the "all programs list in Windows 7".

The "Metro" screen is just a "colossal stupid mode" in which the Windows 7 taskbar is blown up to consume the entire display, and I have to switch out of what I'm doing in order to use it (hence the use of the word "mode", an evil word in UI design). Heck, Windows 8 reminds me of a DOS program in which there would be a main full-screen text menu from which you could launch programs or features, and you'd have to jump back to that main screen in order to do something else. And while you're running a program, there's no indication of the progress of other programs (which Windows 7 made possible with progress bars on pinned program icons) or easy way to switch between other open programs. I have several workflows involving multiple programs whose icons are pinned to my Windows 7 taskbar for which "Metro" just wouldn't work at all. I can find no reason why I would want to use "Metro" for anything.

 

[lehnerus2000]

My W7 Setup

I was really only talking about the people that have 20 applications pinned to their start menu in W7. At that point you might as well just be opening the all programs list.

Yeah, it's identical, but this screen: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6800062/windows8startscreen1.png would be much messier on W7.

Your Metro screen looks neat and tidy.

My W7 setup.
History of the Start Menu - perhaps some comments? - Windows 7 Forums

 

[Spaisekraft]

I agree that the app screen (second screenshot) isn't optimal, but then again it's not much worse for organization than the old all programs list in W7. The only difference between the two was that in W7 is was very compact and everything was in collapsed folders. I think Microsoft did away with that because there's no use. Everything you frequently use should be pinned to the start screen (like in my first screenshot) or as an icon on your desktop. For me, the start screen is an afterthought, it just sits out of sight and out of mind until I need to very quickly launch something. Take a look at the first screenshot again, and tell me how you think the old start menu was better for listing your frequently used apps or what you've pinned. I am honestly interested, because to me it works perfectly. I mean, with this set up I never have to open the app list because everything I use frequently is on the start screen.

I don't think you're understanding how I've set my Windows 7 system up. I described it very carefully in my first message, in case you want to review it. I didn't say anything about the Start Menu because I rarely use it or the Desktop because I rarely see it. I have no idea what you mean by the "all programs list in Windows 7".

The "Metro" screen is just a "colossal stupid mode" in which the Windows 7 taskbar is blown up to consume the entire display, and I have to switch out of what I'm doing in order to use it (hence the use of the word "mode", an evil word in UI design). Heck, Windows 8 reminds me of a DOS program in which there would be a main full-screen text menu from which you could launch programs or features, and you'd have to jump back to that main screen in order to do something else. And while you're running a program, there's no indication of the progress of other programs (which Windows 7 made possible with progress bars on pinned program icons) or easy way to switch between other open programs. I have several workflows involving multiple programs whose icons are pinned to my Windows 7 taskbar for which "Metro" just wouldn't work at all. I can find no reason why I would want to use "Metro" for anything.

The way you described your desktop sounds like a massive mess, but to each their own. Maybe if you could screenshot it so I could understand better?

 

[crawfish]

The way you described your desktop sounds like a massive mess, but to each their own. Maybe if you could screenshot it so I could understand better?

Sorry, but no. I described my taskbar well enough, and you're again talking about my "desktop" which I just told you I rarely see. Whatever. You're talking about Windows 7 things I rarely use (Start menu, desktop, "all programs list") as if they're the primary way one is supposed to use Windows 7, so I can only conclude you don't understand how to use Windows 7 effectively. I've explained how I use Windows 7 effectively and gave some reasons why "Metro" appears to be so ineffective in comparison. I came here to try to discover why I'm failing to get this "Metro" thing, and after several messages, you've presented nothing to suggest there's anything to get about it. Maybe someone else can show me.

 

[Spaisekraft]

The way you described your desktop sounds like a massive mess, but to each their own. Maybe if you could screenshot it so I could understand better?

Sorry, but no. I described my taskbar well enough, and you're again talking about my "desktop" which I just told you I rarely see. Whatever. You're talking about Windows 7 things I rarely use (Start menu, desktop, "all programs list") as if they're the primary way one is supposed to use Windows 7, so I can only conclude you don't understand how to use Windows 7 effectively. I've explained how I use Windows 7 effectively and gave some reasons why "Metro" appears to be so ineffective in comparison. I came here to try to discover why I'm failing to get this "Metro" thing, and after several messages, you've presented nothing to suggest there's anything to get about it. Maybe someone else can show me.

You described a massive and cluttered taskbar. Filling your taskbar with pinned apps isn't the primary way to use Windows. I can only conclude that you don't know how to use Windows 7 effectively.

You know how ridiculous it is to assume that someone doesn't use Windows effectively because they don't use it like you do?

Please, just go back to W7 if these changes are too much for you to handle. I bet your browser looks like this: http://www.productsthathateyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/ie-toolbar-bloat1.jpg

Anyways it's clear we're not going to agree on anything. You keep hating on W8, I'll keep using W8.

 

[legacy7955]

I have a solution for both groups.... those that like Metro and those that don't like it....a simple UI change at the click of a mouse button when first loading Win 8. MS if you are reading this you NEED to offer this option to keep EVERYBODY happy, and at the same time your organization can continue to move ahead as you see fit.

 

[whs]

I have a solution for both groups.... those that like Metro and those that don't like it....a simple UI change at the click of a mouse button when first loading Win 8. MS if you are reading this you NEED to offer this option to keep EVERYBODY happy, and at the same time your organization can continue to move ahead as you see fit.

How about Win+D

 

[lehnerus2000]

App Sales

I have a solution for both groups.... those that like Metro and those that don't like it....a simple UI change at the click of a mouse button when first loading Win 8. MS if you are reading this you NEED to offer this option to keep EVERYBODY happy, and at the same time your organization can continue to move ahead as you see fit.

That is the obvious solution and many people have suggested exactly that.
Actually, a lot of people think it should be chosen during the installation/setup.

MS steadfastly refuses to implement it, because of the profit they think they're going to make by selling apps.
If you aren't "forced" to use Metro, why would you buy any apps from their store?

I call it iPanic.

 

[Spaisekraft]

I have a solution for both groups.... those that like Metro and those that don't like it....a simple UI change at the click of a mouse button when first loading Win 8. MS if you are reading this you NEED to offer this option to keep EVERYBODY happy, and at the same time your organization can continue to move ahead as you see fit.

That is the obvious solution and many people have suggested exactly that.
Actually, a lot of people think it should be chosen during the installation/setup.

MS steadfastly refuses to implement it, because of the profit they think they're going to make by selling apps.
If you aren't "forced" to use Metro, why would you buy any apps from their store?

I call it iPanic.

I don't know why they'd think people will buy the apps either way. I like the metro UI, but I don't plan on buying apps. I hardly ever see the metro UI and when I do, it's enjoyable for the most part. Doesn't make me want to buy apps though lol

I also think it'd be a good idea to allow people to use the default Windows 7 UI just like how Ubuntu lets you switch to Gnome at the log in screen.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Angry Birds

I don't know why they'd think people will buy the apps either way. I like the metro UI, but I don't plan on buying apps. I hardly ever see the metro UI and when I do, it's enjoyable for the most part. Doesn't make me want to buy apps though lol

"Gotta play "Angry Birds", lol."

I also think it'd be a good idea to allow people to use the default Windows 7 UI just like how Ubuntu lets you switch to Gnome at the log in screen.

It is incomprehensible to me, that MS's professional developers can't make a "stand-alone GUI" for Windows, but a bunch of non-professional developers can do it for Linux distros.

That is one of the best features of Linux distros.
If you hate the GUI, you can customise/replace it.