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Solved Latest Win 8.1 ISO "Breaks" System Image Functionality


Saltgrass

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#41
My2cents original conclusion still seems to be correct in that the Winre.wim file is being populated during the install with items, and I believe mostly drivers, from a previous install. Since he did not give the specifics of how the test was conducted, I cannot duplicate.

But on my system with the larger .wim, I mounted it and found 18 .inf files in the DriverStore\FileRespository folder. They were all dated after the majority of the files, and some of those even seemed to be updated versions, which meant there were basically two version of that same .inf.

I checked the new files, and although I don't know what they were all for, I noticed a sai1708.inf file which I believe is a component for my Saitek keyboard or mouse. This file is not in the smaller version on the same machine and since I have not yet loaded those drivers, it is not in the current Windows\inf folder. There were others, like nvstusb.inf which would seem to be for a Nividia chipset I do not have.

If you take just the FileRespository directory and the WinSxS directory, it appears those two account for around 50-55 MB of increase in the Winre.wim on my system. If the file is being modified during the install to add particular items for your system, I see no way to stop it and installing over a prior install will more than likely result in a larger working version.

But since the problem does occur, without doubt, Microsoft should do something to increase the size of the Recovery partition for new installs.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB

theog

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#42
Hi Saltgrass

All tests in post 40 are with the same Motherboard & hardware.
 

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my2cents

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#43
Just for the record, I did a clean Legacy install and the 8.1 System Imaging creation "and restoral" processes work without issue on my rig. Apparently, there is now adequate space available for the shadow volume copy process to function properly. Still get a few event logs but they are NA relative to the effectiveness of the process in general.

Screenshot (12).png

Screenshot (5).png

Screenshot (6).png

Screenshot (7).png

Screenshot (8).png

Screenshot (9).png

Screenshot (10).png

Screenshot (11).png
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
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    57/11

Saltgrass

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#44
As far as Legacy installs, they start with a larger partition for the Recovery files, which is 350 MB already. In that partition, they will have boot files that are around 20-21 MBs and the Recovery files which are normally 220-223 MBs.

In order to have the 50 MBs of free space, considering the room already used, the Winre.wim file cannot go above 280 MBs, if my math is correct.

350-50-20-220=60
220+60=280

These numbers are estimates based on my system. But since my file was 275 MB, you might see it is not far from breaking the limit of Legacy installs also.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB

my2cents

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#45
Screenshot (20).png

UPDATE: Mine works fine without a workaround.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
    Internet Speed
    57/11

theog

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#46
Legacy Install.

Windows 8.1.1 Issue Still (System Image Backup) - Microsoft Community

Cant backup 8.1 using system image backup! Error 0x80780119, Cant - Microsoft Community

Microsoft Support Engineer said:
Hi,





The error message shows that there is no space to create the volume shadow copy on the storage location.



You need to create another partition on the hard disk, and then perform a backup.



If you are logged in as an administrator, you can repartition your hard disk by using the Shrink feature in Disk Management. You can shrink an existing partition or volume to create unallocated disk space, from which you can create a new partition or volume. (Note that the terms partition and volume are often used interchangeably.)

1.
Open Computer Management by holding Windows key and r. In the run box type Diskmgmt.msc

2.
In the left pane, under Storage, click Disk Management.

3.
Right-click the volume you want to shrink, and then click Shrink Volume.

4.
Follow the instructions.
Well YES!!!!!!!! (of 400mb)
 

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theog

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#47

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Saltgrass

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#48
Theog, I saw the same result when I did a Windows Store update on a Windows 8 system that already had a 500 MB recovery partition. It created the 350 MB partition and left the 500 MB one alone.

But this may not be just about backup imaging. Many folks are complaining they cannot reset their updated Windows 8.1 systems back to factory specs. If you were to reset and OEM system, I would assume it would revert to 8.0 because that is the only image it has to use. Since Microsoft is not releasing the .iso, there are no source files to do Refreshes or Resets on an upgraded 8.1 system, so being able to reset to Windows 8 would need to be available.

So perhaps adding the extra partition allows OEM Factory Reset utilities to complete the Factory Reset back to 8.0. If the original Recovery Tools Partition had been overwritten, it may no longer function in that capacity. But someone with an OEM system would have to check. I was able to reset my Faux OEM system back to Windows 8 using the Reset option and the image of Windows 8 I had created.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB

theog

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#49
Hi Saltgrass

OEM screenshots.


You would need to use the OEM Recovery disks.

Reset003.PNG

Reset004.PNG
 

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#50
Workround 3 Full Version.

How to clean install Windows 8.1 & have Windows backup working, UEFI mode install.

Using Windows 8 Partitioning layout.

To clean install:
1) Clean the HD Drive, using Step one in this tutorial
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation - Windows 7 Help Forums



diskpart
select disk 0
clean
convert gpt
create partition primary size=300 (change to 400)
format quick fs=ntfs label="Windows RE tools"
set id="de94bba4-06d1-4d40-a16a-bfd50179d6ac"
assign letter="T"
create partition efi size=100
format quick fs=fat32 label="System"
assign letter="S"
create partition msr size=128
create partition primary
format quick fs=ntfs label="Windows"
assign letter="W"

For Partitions.
View attachment 30268

For SET ID for Partition 1
View attachment 30269

2)http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...e-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html
Thanks for this write up. I plan to try this soon.
One question - after I complete all the partitioning in your first step, do I reboot and follow the directions in step 2? I assume I skip section 6 (delete the partitions).
Thanks,
Mike
 

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  • OS
    8.1 WMC

theog

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#51
Thanks for this write up. I plan to try this soon.
One question - after I complete all the partitioning in your first step, do I reboot and follow the directions in step 2? I assume I skip section 6 (delete the partitions).
Thanks,
Mike
No need to reboot, but rebooting is always a good idea.
 

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#52
Thanks for this write up. I plan to try this soon.
One question - after I complete all the partitioning in your first step, do I reboot and follow the directions in step 2? I assume I skip section 6 (delete the partitions).
Thanks,
Mike
No need to reboot, but rebooting is always a good idea.
Worked perfectly. I was able to backup and restore my system image.

I initially attempted Saltgrass's method with Partition Wizard. Everything seemed ok, but System Image generated an invalid parameter message, and I noticed the 100MB EFI partition had like 16 million terabytes used space. So I and/or Partition Wizard messed something up.

Thanks again for this great solution to a Microsoft blunder!
 

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    8.1 WMC

theog

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#53
Thanks for this write up. I plan to try this soon.
One question - after I complete all the partitioning in your first step, do I reboot and follow the directions in step 2? I assume I skip section 6 (delete the partitions).
Thanks,
Mike
No need to reboot, but rebooting is always a good idea.
Worked perfectly. I was able to backup and restore my system image.

I initially attempted Saltgrass's method with Partition Wizard. Everything seemed ok, but System Image generated an invalid parameter message, and I noticed the 100MB EFI partition had like 16 million terabytes used space. So I and/or Partition Wizard messed something up.

Thanks again for this great solution to a Microsoft blunder!
You are welcome. :dinesh:
 

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gator2013

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#54
First post here so please stick with me.
Looking for recommendation for System Image Back-up and Restore and this thread seems to be the most comprehensive I have seen.
Here's The Deal:

New PC (HP 500-075 Desktop 1TB HD direst from HP) received just before Christmas, pre-loaded with 8.0 Upon receipt I immediately created Recovery Disk set with zero problems. Proceeded to install all 8.0 updates I could find then updated to 8.1 via the MS Store. The 8.1 update went fine with no problems and I have not had any issues or errors with 8.1 whatsoever. After the 8.1 update I did create a new Refresh Image to the C drive and also created a Back-up Full System Image via the File History page to an external drive with apparent success at least it seems so as I got successful creation message and no errors.

After everything I have read on this and other forums I am under the impression that with 8.1 I could not use this System Image to re-image my computer without a lot of manipulation effort if at all. It seems my best and most reliable course of action for easy and reliable System Image creation and restore is through a third party vendor. I always considered this my best course of action but I thought I would see if the built-in features with 8.0/8.1 offered a viable option but considering my ease of use criteria the on-board feature seems not to be an option. On my previous PC (XP SP3) I used Ghost for 8+ years and after many image restore operations it was always easy and foolproof but I don't think Ghost is an option for 8.0/8.1.

My question is this:

Considering all the above, If I go with a third party solution like Macrium Reflect or ShadowProtect Desktop will I be able to routinely create back-up images and most importantly, successfully re-image my PC without jumping through a lot of hoops or separate commands? I am not interested in a lot of advanced features, I just want it to work. I do want to be prepared to reimage a new drive if my hard drive were to fail at some point in the future.

Thanks for taking the time as I know this is long winded but you folks seem to really know this issue.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1 64, LT -Windows 10 Home 64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP 500-075 Desktop + HP 15-f018dx Laptop
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 3470 Ivy Bridge 3.2 GHz Quad Core/ LT - i3-4030U 1.9 GHz
    Motherboard
    Foxcon Joshua-H61-uATX
    Memory
    8 GB/ LT - 6GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD (DX10.1)
    Sound Card
    Integrated IDT 92HD73E
    Hard Drives
    1T HDD, 16G Sandisk Cache Drive, 2T Seagate 3.0 External
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theog

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#55

My Computer

System One

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    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
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    PC/Desktop
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    Notebooks x 3

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gator2013

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#56
@ gator2013

1) Is Windows Imaging working for you?
Thanks for your reply.

Can't really say if Windows Imaging is working for me. I think the creation of the System Image was successful but testing it by attempting to re-image the PC is another matter. I wouldn't dare attempt to re-image with this without a plan "B" because if it failed I might be SOL.

Thanks for the info for the new Symantec product, I will definitely check it out.

As of this moment it doesn't appear that Symantec System Recovery 2013 is ready for Windows 8.1, at least not until the 2014 release.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1 64, LT -Windows 10 Home 64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP 500-075 Desktop + HP 15-f018dx Laptop
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 3470 Ivy Bridge 3.2 GHz Quad Core/ LT - i3-4030U 1.9 GHz
    Motherboard
    Foxcon Joshua-H61-uATX
    Memory
    8 GB/ LT - 6GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD (DX10.1)
    Sound Card
    Integrated IDT 92HD73E
    Hard Drives
    1T HDD, 16G Sandisk Cache Drive, 2T Seagate 3.0 External
    Keyboard
    Wireless
    Mouse
    Wireless
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Norton 360
    Other Info
    CyberPower UPS, Macrium Backup, Revo Pro, Malwarebytes Premium

gator2013

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#58
Did you make the Repair disk?
I initially created the full system recovery dick set right out of the box but I did not create a repair USB before the upgrade to 8.1. After the upgrade to 8.1 I did create a USB Repair Drive but I don't know if this does anything for me. I guess I figured the full set of recovery disks was all I needed to get back to factory setup.

I have all my important docs and files backed up externally I just want to get this system image create and restore ironed out before too much time passes.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1 64, LT -Windows 10 Home 64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP 500-075 Desktop + HP 15-f018dx Laptop
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 3470 Ivy Bridge 3.2 GHz Quad Core/ LT - i3-4030U 1.9 GHz
    Motherboard
    Foxcon Joshua-H61-uATX
    Memory
    8 GB/ LT - 6GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD (DX10.1)
    Sound Card
    Integrated IDT 92HD73E
    Hard Drives
    1T HDD, 16G Sandisk Cache Drive, 2T Seagate 3.0 External
    Keyboard
    Wireless
    Mouse
    Wireless
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Norton 360
    Other Info
    CyberPower UPS, Macrium Backup, Revo Pro, Malwarebytes Premium

theog

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#59
Did you make the Repair disk?
I initially created the full system recovery dick set right out of the box but I did not create a repair USB before the upgrade to 8.1. After the upgrade to 8.1 I did create a USB Repair Drive but I don't know if this does anything for me. I guess I figured the full set of recovery disks was all I needed to get back to factory setup.

I have all my important docs and files backed up externally I just want to get this system image create and restore ironed out before too much time passes.
1) The OEM manufacturer's Recovery DVD's or USB drive, can use all Repair tools & Reimage the OEM Windows 8 Pre-installed to factory setup.

2) The MS Windows 8.1 USB Repair Drive, can use all Repair tools & Reimage using MS Windows 8.1 image you have made, but CAN NOT Reimage the OEM Windows 8 Pre-installed to factory setup.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
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    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4

gator2013

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#60
theog;327689 1) The OEM manufacturer's Recovery DVD's or USB drive said:
CAN NOT [/B]Reimage the OEM Windows 8 Pre-installed to factory setup.
Understand. Thanks for your reply.

I have not had any issues after the with 8.1 upgrade via the store, at least none that I can see and certainly not like some of the issues others have reported but I think I would have preferred a clean install of 8.1. I might not have noticed the issues generated with the loss of some recovery tools with 8.1 had I not visited some of the forums at least not right now anyway but at least I understand the situation, at least I think I do and I have seen the additional partition the HD created by the 8.1 upgrade. In the past I have always used a 3rd party program to handle full system image back-up and restore and I plan on doing so again. I just hope some of these issues don't haunt me a couple of years down the road.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1 64, LT -Windows 10 Home 64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP 500-075 Desktop + HP 15-f018dx Laptop
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 3470 Ivy Bridge 3.2 GHz Quad Core/ LT - i3-4030U 1.9 GHz
    Motherboard
    Foxcon Joshua-H61-uATX
    Memory
    8 GB/ LT - 6GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD (DX10.1)
    Sound Card
    Integrated IDT 92HD73E
    Hard Drives
    1T HDD, 16G Sandisk Cache Drive, 2T Seagate 3.0 External
    Keyboard
    Wireless
    Mouse
    Wireless
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Norton 360
    Other Info
    CyberPower UPS, Macrium Backup, Revo Pro, Malwarebytes Premium

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