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Solved Latest Win 8.1 ISO "Breaks" System Image Functionality


theog

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#21
OEM manufacturer's update from the Windows store.

OEMup8-1-0001.PNG

With backup working.
 

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    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
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theog

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#22
Workround

How to clean install Windows 8.1 & have Windows backup working, UEFI mode install.

Using Windows 7 Partitioning layout.

To clean install:
1) Clean the HD Drive, using Step one in this tutorial:
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation - Windows 7 Help Forums

Diskpart
Select disk 0
Clean
Convert gpt
Create partition efi size=200
Assign letter=s
Format quick fs=FAT32
Create partition msr size=128
Create partition primary
Assign letter=w
Format quick fs=NTFS
Exit


UP8-1-007.PNG

2) http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...e-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html

UP8-1-008.PNG
 
Last edited:

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SIW2

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#23
Hi Theog.

In both those cases, where is winre.wim?

For the oem scenario, is it on the reovery partition?

For the clean install, is it on the win 8.1 partition?
 

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    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
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theog

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#24
OEM not here, but I would say on new partition.


Clean install on C:/

2013-10-25_170716.jpg

2013-10-25_171007.jpg

2013-10-25_171447.jpg
 

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theog

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#28

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amrobx

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#29
Do not make it larger than 350 MB since the imaging utility cannot handle recovery partitions over that size.
I don't use windows system image, so am not sure what you mean by that.?
The System Image utility backs up a Recovery (Tools) partition during the normal process. If you have a 500 MB recovery partition, it will show it is backing up a 350 MB partition, which appears to be its limit.

When you recover the image, you will end up with a 500 MB partition where was originally was and a 350 MB partition which has been set up as the actual Recovery partition. I just happened to notice one of my installs after I had changed the partition to 500 MB to get around the problem of imaging errors.

I have not yet tried this with wbadmin.exe so not sure it the results would be the same.
So resizing the recovery partition to 350 MB or a shade less was a successful workaround for you? No errors or other unexpected behavior after restoration? Were the recovery tools in the partition still functional? The reason I ask is how you phrased it with the word "chance." I prefer to leave little to luck.

Honestly, I liked using the built-in backup tools for redundancy, including images. I've always used Macrium in conjunction with wbadmin because I've experienced restoration issues with both at some point.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Custom
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus P8P67 Rev. 3.1
    Memory
    16 GB PC12800 Corsair Vengeance @1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Windforce 3 Nvidia GTX 770 4 gb
    Sound Card
    Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Vizio VO370M
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    128 gb Plextor PX-128M3 6 Gbps
    2 TB WD Black 7200 rpm 6 Gbps
    1 TB WD Black 7200 rpm 3 Gbps
    750 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm 3 Gbps
    PSU
    Seasonic Platinum 860w
    Case
    Thermaltake Urban S71 full tower
    Cooling
    1-Noctua NF-A14ULN, 1-NF S12A PWM, 2-NF-P12 PWM, 2 200mm Thermaltake
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    Logitech K400r w/ integrated touchpad
    Browser
    Firefox, Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton Internet Security 2014

Saltgrass

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#30
I still suggest not using a Recovery Partition over 350 MB. But the exact origin of such a partition, which was not on the original install, has become a little clouded.

I now know, a Windows 8 to 8.1 upgrade using the RTM and the setup utility from it, will make an additional 350 MB partition in addition to the original 300 MB partition and set the Recovery to use it. An Upgrade from the store maintains the original 300 MB partition and thus will probably cause the Imaging error.

Whether one is created during a re-imaging operation is now in doubt, but still a possibility, if you were even able to create a System Image in the first place.

Tomorrow afternoon, I will be changing my current Windows Store Updated 8.0 to 8.1 install to the larger partition and will post the steps using Partition Wizard 7. This process is already described in some other threads, but I will put it here also, if anyone is interested. I have already changed my other install, which originally had the errors, and it creates images normally, so the answer to your question is use a 350 MB partition if you decide to go that way.

You do have the option of creating 350 MB of unallocated space by shrinking the OS partition, but you would have to copy the old Recovery partition or its contents and reset the recovery image to the new location.

If anyone doubts the need for a larger partition to solve this problem, check out the size of Winre.wim file currently on this system.

T:\Recovery\WindowsRE>dir /a
Volume in drive T is Recovery
Volume Serial Number is 8476-8552

Directory of T:\Recovery\WindowsRE

10/24/2013 05:15 PM <DIR> .
10/24/2013 05:15 PM <DIR> ..
06/18/2013 10:08 AM 3,170,304 boot.sdi
10/24/2013 05:15 PM 1,013 ReAgent.xml
10/24/2013 05:07 PM 267,405,025 Winre.wim
3 File(s) 270,576,342 bytes
2 Dir(s) 14,077,952 bytes free
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB

theog

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#31
Workround 3

Workround 3

Before Restore.

Diskpart up set id-3.PNG

After Restore.

Diskpart up set id-4.PNG

With a 400mb Recovery tool partition.
Backup working, but when Restoring the image, using USB Pen Drive the restore would like to format the USB Pen Drive.
Restore can only be done using the DVD.
 

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    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
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    Notebooks x 3

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Saltgrass

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#32
I went ahead and changed the partitions so I could image my system. Up until that time, I was getting the space error but after the change the system image was made with no problems.

As Theog points out, a partition size larger that 350 MB should be fine and I went back to my 500 MB one and it re-imaged fine.

Also, you can use a Flash Drive to re-image, but you have to make sure and exclude the drive from the ones to be formatted. A DVD would be safer in this regard.

The way I changed my partitions was with Partition Wizard and it is a dangerous process, so beware if you choose to do this.

First, I like to make sure the drive you are changing the partitions on, has no unallocated space. This is because restoring the MSR partition for the UEFI installs needs to go in the correct place.

From Partition Wizard, you need to do four things.

Delete the MSR partition,
Resize/Move the OS partition over the amount of space you need,
move the EFI partition over,
and then resize the Recovery Partition to what you want.

You should end up with the partitions in order and the correct size with 128 MBs of unallocated space just before the OS partition for the MSR partition.

I like to apply each action as I do them and not wait and do them all at once, but that is up to you. I also like to stay away from moving the leading edge of the first partition, since it needs to stay where it is.

How you choose to accomplish these procedures is up to you, but Partition Wizard has an "Extend" option which will make the Recovery partition larger and at the same time move the EFI partition over. Just remember, nothing is changed until you apply the change. Make sure and check so there are no procedures that still need to be applied before you reboot.

Once you are done with Partition Wizard, you can boot back into Windows and use the Administrative Command prompt and Diskpart to create the MSR partition in the unallocated space you left in Partition Wizard for this purpose. If there is unallocated space on the drive, other than the 128 MB, the partition might be put there in error.

Diskpart
list disk
select disk 0 <- if 0 is the correct disk number
create par MSR
Exit

C:\WINDOWS\system32>diskpart

Microsoft DiskPart version 6.3.9600

Copyright (C) 1999-2013 Microsoft Corporation.
On computer: Yours

DISKPART> list disk

Disk ### Status Size Free Dyn Gpt
-------- ------------- ------- ------- --- ---
Disk 0 Online 298 GB 130 MB *

DISKPART> sel disk 0

Disk 0 is now the selected disk.

DISKPART> create par MSR

DiskPart succeeded in creating the specified partition.

DISKPART> lis par

Partition ### Type Size Offset
------------- ---------------- ------- -------
Partition 1 Recovery 500 MB 1024 KB
Partition 2 System 100 MB 502 MB
* Partition 3 Reserved 128 MB 602 MB
Partition 4 Primary 128 GB 730 MB
Partition 5 Primary 168 GB 129 GB

DISKPART> exit

Leaving DiskPart...
Now you should be ready to go.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB

bagavan

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#33
My computer does not have UEFI . I have upgraded 8.1 through store and I have downloaded the 8.1 iso just in case. Therefore my computer is unaffected by this error after the an clean install with 8.1 GA iso is done rite?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 professional x64 + WMC
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Acer Aspire 5920
    CPU
    Core 2 duo T5550
    Motherboard
    ACER CHAPALA
    Memory
    4GB DDR2
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel GMA X3100
    Screen Resolution
    1280 X 800
    Hard Drives
    160 GB HDD

amrobx

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Posts
25
#34
If you are using legacy boot, then your system won't be affected that I've seen. I've tried both UEFI and legacy boot on mine and the latter works without an issue. I just prefer UEFI.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Custom
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus P8P67 Rev. 3.1
    Memory
    16 GB PC12800 Corsair Vengeance @1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Windforce 3 Nvidia GTX 770 4 gb
    Sound Card
    Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Vizio VO370M
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    128 gb Plextor PX-128M3 6 Gbps
    2 TB WD Black 7200 rpm 6 Gbps
    1 TB WD Black 7200 rpm 3 Gbps
    750 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm 3 Gbps
    PSU
    Seasonic Platinum 860w
    Case
    Thermaltake Urban S71 full tower
    Cooling
    1-Noctua NF-A14ULN, 1-NF S12A PWM, 2-NF-P12 PWM, 2 200mm Thermaltake
    Keyboard
    Logitech K400r w/ integrated touchpad
    Browser
    Firefox, Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton Internet Security 2014

theog

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#35
My computer does not have UEFI . I have upgraded 8.1 through store and I have downloaded the 8.1 iso just in case. Therefore my computer is unaffected by this error after the an clean install with 8.1 GA iso is done rite?
If you are using legacy boot, then your system won't be affected that I've seen. I've tried both UEFI and legacy boot on mine and the latter works without an issue. I just prefer UEFI.
It has now been reported on some web sites, that the problem is also on Legacy mode installs with 350mb System Partition is to small.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
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    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

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theog

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#36
Workround 3 Full Version.

Workround 3 Full Version.

How to clean install Windows 8.1 & have Windows backup working, UEFI mode install.

Using Windows 8 Partitioning layout.

To clean install:
1) Clean the HD Drive, using Step one in this tutorial
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation - Windows 7 Help Forums



diskpart
select disk 0
clean
convert gpt
create partition primary size=300 (change to 400)
format quick fs=ntfs label="Windows RE tools"
set id="de94bba4-06d1-4d40-a16a-bfd50179d6ac"
assign letter="T"
create partition efi size=100
format quick fs=fat32 label="System"
assign letter="S"
create partition msr size=128
create partition primary
format quick fs=ntfs label="Windows"
assign letter="W"

For Partitions.
UP8-1-009.PNG

For SET ID for Partition 1
UP8-1-010.PNG

2)http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...e-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4

amrobx

New Member
Posts
25
#37
My computer does not have UEFI . I have upgraded 8.1 through store and I have downloaded the 8.1 iso just in case. Therefore my computer is unaffected by this error after the an clean install with 8.1 GA iso is done rite?
If you are using legacy boot, then your system won't be affected that I've seen. I've tried both UEFI and legacy boot on mine and the latter works without an issue. I just prefer UEFI.
It has now been reported on some web sites, that the problem is also on Legacy mode installs with 350mb System Partition is to small.
Interesting. I haven't run into this issue using legacy mode on 3 different systems--2 clean installs, 1 upgrade. I wonder why it is occurring for some people in legacy mode? Sounds like the problem is even more pervasive than originally thought and it doesn't sound like something that will be fixed by Microsoft.


Theog, thanks for the full workaround using Windows 8 partitions. I will likely be using that for the time being.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model Number
    Custom
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-2600K @ 4.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus P8P67 Rev. 3.1
    Memory
    16 GB PC12800 Corsair Vengeance @1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte Windforce 3 Nvidia GTX 770 4 gb
    Sound Card
    Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Vizio VO370M
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    128 gb Plextor PX-128M3 6 Gbps
    2 TB WD Black 7200 rpm 6 Gbps
    1 TB WD Black 7200 rpm 3 Gbps
    750 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm 3 Gbps
    PSU
    Seasonic Platinum 860w
    Case
    Thermaltake Urban S71 full tower
    Cooling
    1-Noctua NF-A14ULN, 1-NF S12A PWM, 2-NF-P12 PWM, 2 200mm Thermaltake
    Keyboard
    Logitech K400r w/ integrated touchpad
    Browser
    Firefox, Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton Internet Security 2014

theog

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#38
Legacy mode workround

How to clean install Windows 8.1 & have Windows backup working. Legacy mode install.

To clean install:
1) Clean the HD Drive, using Step one in this tutorial:
SSD / HDD : Optimize for Windows Reinstallation - Windows 7 Help Forums

list disk
select disk 0
clean
create partition primary size=400
select partition 1
active
format quick fs=ntfs label="Windows RE tools"
set id=27
create partition primary
format quick fs=ntfs label="Windows"

UP8-1-011.PNG

2) http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2299-clean-install-windows-8-a.html

UP8-1-012.PNG
 

My Computer

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theog

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#39

My Computer

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theog

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#40
http://www.eightforums.com/installa...ail-dvd-uefi-install-issues-2.html#post300473

Saltgrass said:
I just got through doing a really clean install on my system using the Retail DVD as a source for the update. I am in the process of loading drivers on my system, such as the chipset and Intel ones. Whether this is necessary, not sure, but it does change some of the indications in Device Manger.

If Theog is reading this, my Winre.wim file was only 223 MB after the install, no need for a larger partition, System Imaging works.
Test on UEFI mode install.

Winre.wim size

Windows 8.1 RTM (TechNet) = 210.67

Windows 8.1 GA (Upgrade Download) = 238.76

Windows 8.1, Windows Store = 253.38

Win8-1 GA WinRE-002.jpg

Win8-1 RTM WinRE.jpg

Windows Store GA WinRE.jpg

Windows 8 System image.

Restore with

Windows 8 WinRE = YES.

Windows 8.1 WinRE RTM = NO

Windows 8.1 WinRE GA = NO




Windows 8.1 RTM System image.

Restore with

Windows 8 WinRE = NO

Windows 8.1 WinRE RTM = YES

Windows 8.1 WinRE GA = YES



Windows 8.1 GA System image.(with 400 partition)

Restore with

Windows 8 WinRE = NO

Windows 8.1 WinRE RTM = YES

Windows 8.1 WinRE GA = YES
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4

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