8.1 Evaluation from Windows Secrets Newsletter

https://windowssecrets.com/top-story/touring-through-the-final-windows-8-1/

 

[Wynona]

I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous.

A bit harsh, don't you think? I've been using computers and building my own since the DOS days and have never had any problem adjusting to a new version of DOS or Windows. Not to say I liked every new version, but when Windows 7 came out, I thought I'd died and gone to Heaven. That was before Windows 8! When I installed Windows 8, I thought I'd died and gone to Hell! I couldn't even figure out how to shut the dang thing down!

Finally, I gave up and did a "hard" shutdown. Since I'd installed Windows 8 with Windows 7 as a dual boot system, I went back to booting into Windows 7 and started to pick up information on 8.

A friend gave me the URL to Eight Forums, and I've learned a lot here. BUT! If it hadn't been for this forum, I would still be stumbling around in Windows 8, not being able to find my butt with both hands.

Windows 8 is NOT INTUITIVE! And I'm here to tell you that I, personally, need to know more than how to press a power button and the Windows key when neither have been necessary or important to my computing skills in the past. What about the little "all apps" button at the lower right of the monitor? Once it's discovered, the most gosh-awful-convoluted list of apps comes up that has no rhyme or reason . . . MS Office, which should have Word, Excel, Power Point, Outlook and Access has a list of 15 (count 'em) "apps" to choose from. Gimme a break!

Sometimes "one size fits all" doesn't work. When I was a 98 lb weakling, that same "one size" just hung off my skinny frame and I looked horrible. Pretty good analogy to hang onto Windows 8, because my computer certainly isn't a tablet (I have a Kindle HD for that) nor a smartphone (can you see putting my monitor up to my ear to answer a phone call?). Nor do I wish to stretch my arm all the way across my desk to leave a greasy smear on my monitor to open an app.

Windows 8 is absolutely not a "one size fits all" kind of OS and Microsoft made a huge mistake by trying to force it on us.

Does that mean I hate Windows 8? In the beginning, ABSOLUTELY I did, but I'm getting used to it and I can put up with it until the 8.1 upgrade is released on Oct. 18. Does that mean I'll love it? Nope, probably not. However, I will customize it and make it my own, even if I have to put one of those unnecessary menu apps on my computer.

</climbing down from stump>

 

[Wynona]

How do you access the file structure using just the start screen. This to has been a problem for a few people I met. They could not figure out how to put a shortcut to my computer etc on the desktop. It sure ain't that easy to figure out using the start screen. Just saying that none of your arguments hold water or in any way justify this change. I have been running vanilla windows 8 and now 8.1 since launch, and I still don't like it. I know how to use it, but I still think they were stupid for forcing this change. Every poll I have ever looked at would seem to indicate that the world agrees with me...

Agree wholeheartedly. It took me awhile and use of HP's Start Menu to figure out that I could put my "computer" on my Quick Launch bar. Now, at least it's a little easier to find things.

 

[Mystere]

I gave him that info.. It is still better with a logical, well thought out, and yes Familiar menu. People have been cautioned all along up to know away from shutting down their pc using the power button. Up to now, it has been a last resort. You and I both know that a single press will do the same as a shutdown. But no restart and logoff option come up that way. You act like this should be just basic stuff, but you miss the point that it is very different than what most people have been doing for 15 years and in no way is it better. Sorry friend. I am unfortunately in the majority on this one. Your opinion is not widely held and you should know it.

You have been able to shutdown windows with the power button since Windows 98 SE. That's 15 years. Nobody should have been "cautioned" not to do it that way. Essentially, since the invention of the ATX motherboard.

Again, I was very specific about what I wrote. If all they need to do is use their computer, then they only need to know those two things. Rebooting doesn't require anything special. Just power it down and power it back up again. It works quite well. And logoff is very easy to find, it's in the same place as pretty much every web site has it these days.. in the users account dropdown. Just like Hotmail, GMail, Yahoo, etc... These are things most people are already familiar with, and do every day.. but for some reason when it comes to Windows, they can't seem understand this logical connection.

The problem here is that a Windows PC has always done things differently for no good reason, and now that it's doing things in a logical way, nobody seems to be able to "get it".

 

[musiclover7]

I am fine.. I am talking about problems that the avg user has. Problems that I have seen them have personally. I can access explorer, and I know how to shut my own machine down. Still, these are basic things that should have been easier out of the box. There is no excuse for the fact that it isn't...

 

[musiclover7]

There is nothing logical about the new windows. If there were, I being a person who has used it every day for over a year with a genuine desire to like it, would like it by now, but I still don't. Over all, I do like the OS, so to be clear, I am still speaking about a specific radical change that was forced upon the install base within the common GUI, otherwise known as the start screen. It sucks on a desktop. It is not logical on a desktop. I could press start and type the first three letters of my program in the past several versions of Windows as well, but I don't want to always do that. Sometimes I just want to look at a short list of apps and choose or find a function in the same place it has been all along up to now. If it were so much better, it would have won me over by now.. If it were so much better, I would have met at least one single person within the IT field that I work in who thought as much. When discussing Windows 8 with my colleagues, or the user base, I should now have met one that loves the new start screen over the start menu. This has yet to happen for me, and it has been over a year. The only people I know of who actually like it, exist in this forum, and I am 80% sure at least some of them work for Microsoft.

 

[Mystere]

How do you access the file structure using just the start screen. This to has been a problem for a few people I met. They could not figure out how to put a shortcut to my computer etc on the desktop. It sure ain't that easy to figure out using the start screen. Just saying that none of your arguments hold water or in any way justify this change. I have been running vanilla windows 8 and now 8.1 since launch, and I still don't like it. I know how to use it, but I still think they were stupid for forcing this change. Every poll I have ever looked at would seem to indicate that the world agrees with me...

I'm not sure what you mean by "file structure", but if you mean the start menu sub-menus, then it works the same way, without the menu. Both are accessed by going to All Programs.

It works the same way in both 7 and 8. You go to All Programs to get at the full list of apps. You right click on the icons to pin the icon somewhere. This is all identical in functionality, it's just that one is in a menu, and the other is in a categorized list. It's true that in Windows 8, All Programs was harder to find, but this was fixed in 8.1. And you could do the same thing by typing a few words into the start page and right clicking on the result and choosing pin to taskbar.. So knowing #2 still gets you there.

 

[musiclover7]

No.. there used to be quick links to my docs, my computer, etc..

These do not exist at all upon the first boot into Windows 8.. Yes, you can get to them under all apps, but again.. I am referring to the avg user. The avg user does not know how to get to all apps. The avg user does not even know how to right click. I am an engineer, I have been supporting the avg user for many a year now, and I back these statements.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I don't have to go to the customize mode to move or uninstall an app? All Customize does on my system is let me name the groups or move them.

I think what he means is that if one right clicks on a tile, the screen goes to a darker shade, the tiles zoom back slightly, and the column titles appear for changing, which is the full customize mode? If left click and hold to move a tile, it goes into a semi-custom mode where only the tiles zoom back slightly to return back when released? Does that make sense?

From the linked page:

Tile control: In Windows 8, it’s much too easy to mess up the Start screen. For example, you can accidentally move a tile by tapping it the wrong way. Or you can bring up the tile-delete screen by simply wiping downward. In Win8.1, you have to go into a special Customize mode (see Figure 1) before you're allowed to move or delete tiles — which is good.

^ wasn't the case for me?

Please excuse me. It wasn't really directed at you. I was more or less thinking out loud while posting so as to get it straight in my head. Lol! Sometimes it's not difficult for me to get confused!

You are absolutely correct. One does NOT need to enter the full customize mode to move a tile. One can move a tile by simply left clicking and holding, but with a slight change in 8.1 not present in 8. Once one starts to move all the tiles zoom back slightly. Perhaps MS did this to warn the user that they're moving a tile?

 

[Mystere]

There is nothing logical about the new windows. If there were, I being a person who has used it every day for over a year with a genuine desire to like it, would like it by now, but I still don't. Over all, I do like the OS, so to be clear, I am still speaking about a specific radical change that was forced upon the install base within the common GUI, otherwise known as the start screen. It sucks on a desktop. It is not logical on a desktop. I could press start and type the first three letters of my program in the past several versions of Windows as well, but I don't want to always do that. Sometimes I just want to look at a short list of apps and choose or find a function in the same place it has been all along up to now. If it were so much better, it would have won me over by now..

You're like the guy who was taught how to do everything wrong, and believes that his way is correct because that's the way he's always done it...

PC's should not be different from any other device out there. They should not be shut down differently than anything else. A power button is all that is required, with the exception of when you need to reboot a pc remotely and have no physical access to the computer.

Why is it that people have been pressing the power buttons on their macs for a decade and don't have problems. Why is it that people have been logging off on their Mac's for a decade by click on their username and choosing Log off without problem? Why is it that people have been getting by with nothing more than a "Dock" and an Applications folder for a decade, without problems... no start menu there.... And why is it that many people convert from a PC to a Mac and are able to make this adjustment just fine?

You act like the Windows way of doing things is the logical way. It's NOT. It's highly illogical to have to shut down your electronic device through some menu somewhere inside the computer. It's only because you're used to doing them that way that you have a problem with them, because people using other OS's don't have start menus and have other ways of shutting down their devices just fine.

So, people like yourself like to say it's not because you are resistant to change.... but in reality, it is... because it's strictly a personal preference thing as evidenced by the fact that millions of people use computers without these things every day, and they don't complain about the lack of them.

 

[Wynona]

I pressed the power button on my new HP box and guess what!? It put the computer to sleep; it didn't power it down. And no, I haven't done anything to change the power options until now. I did go in and change it to Shut Down rather than sleep. So, now, my only Power Button option is to turn on or turn off my computer. If I just want to put it to sleep or into hybernation, I need to do something else, like use a menu? Heaven Forbid!

That said, I helped a friend set up her new computer with Windows 8 pre-installed. She was very happy with it, but then, she's pretty much a novice. She will explore, but will never experiment. She will learn how to use Windows 8, but never as efficiently as most of the guru-type denizens here.

I was taught that just because I do things differently than you, that for me, I'm doing the right thing. I was also taught that just because you do things differently than me, that for you, you're doing the right thing.

I do things the way I want to. Music Lover does things the way he wants to. And my friend does things the way she wants to. You do things the way you want to. None of us are wrong and we're all right.

Having said that, I watch threads and pick up hints and tips; sometimes I find a better way to do things. I don't make any attempt to convince people my way's better than their way . . . I do resist when someone tells me that I'm doing it all wrong and that if I want to do it right, I must do it the way they say.

 

[musiclover7]

I agree with you Wynona. I am glad that there are some folks who actually like the Start Screen. I really am!! Just don't go telling me how much better it is than what we had before.. It isn't. I have been using it for a year now, and I can tell you hands down, it isn't. It provides absolutely no functionality that I lacked before, and depending on what I am doing, it is slower than what I had before. Choice my friends, is a beautiful thing!! This is what I liked so much about what Wynona had to say. Any smart business owner should know, that you cannot do well by turning to your customers and telling them that they are 'wrong'. The customer is always right! I would think that this should be obvious, but some I guess still need it spelled out for them. They will stick to their guns till their dying day, or at least as long as they are still pulling a paycheck from Microsoft.

Choice. Had Microsoft given their users a choice, so much of this could have gone down differently, and I would not be typing this right now. It is just a simple thing. It says to the the customer, however you want to use windows, is the right way. There is no wrong way. And yeah, Wynona is right, very often pressing the power button on a machine will default not to shutdown, but to hibernate. Seriously... Sometimes talking with these Win8 fanboys can be so frustrating. Just know, I am glad you are happy with the changes, and am glad they are a part of the OS so that you can be happy with them. I just wish they had left some of the old features in the OS for those of us in the majority who still prefer them. You won't find a single poll out there that sheds a positive light on the new start screen.. I am just saying...

 

[Jf1450]

I can't remember who, maybe you musiclover7, but somebody in this thread said it best when they pointed out the obvious fact that to get to the Start Screen, you will totally be leaving your application(s) / work in progress and for me, train of thought. It is simply too distracting. It may be fine for those who use computers strictly for social media, but when they are used to make your living, to me it is simply unacceptable.

-jeff

 

[djsigma]

I can't remember who, maybe you musiclover7, but somebody in this thread said it best when they pointed out the obvious fact that to get to the Start Screen, you will totally be leaving your application(s) / work in progress and for me, train of thought. It is simply too distracting. It may be fine for those who use computers strictly for social media, but when they are used to make your living, to me it is simply unacceptable.

-jeff

I disagree with this entirely. In Windows 7, when I wanted to launch an application that was in the Start menu, I had to do a number of clicks - 1 to open the menu itself, then at least 1 more click to launch the program, but sometimes it was several clicks as I had programs organised into folders. While I was looking for something in the Start menu, my attention was momentarily taken away from what I was doing.

In Windows 8.1, I can go to the All Apps screen with 1 click and launch any program installed on my system in 1 click, then I'm back to where I was. So my attention is still taken away momentarily, but I'm doing fewer clicks.

Also, any apps I am using regularly are pinned to the taskbar anyway, just like in Windows 7.

Beside which, this is all academic. Install a third party Start menu replacement - problem solved, just like in Windows 7 where you would have to install an app if you wanted to mount an ISO, or you would install Microsoft Security Essentials (for example) because there was no AV protection included by default. The "outrage" to me is getting old at this point, simply because the solution to it is so simple and is available for free.

If some people had their way, Windows 8 would be a marginally faster Windows 95, including looking the same.

Had Microsoft given their users a choice, so much of this could have gone down differently, and I would not be typing this right now. It is just a simple thing. It says to the the customer, however you want to use windows, is the right way.

Yeah, and the result would have been a bloated and unfocussed operating system that makes troubleshooting more difficult.

 

[musiclover7]

All apps screen is a miss mosh, and you are missing the point. Jf was stating that for him, and many others, it is distracting to leave your work behind and open an entire screen that feels like an entirely different environment, just to accomplish basic tasks. Yes, there are other ways of doing things, but the point I was trying to make is that after a year of use, I still wish I had the option of the old...

I am glad some people think the new is better. They are the minority. The majority do not agree, and as it stands, I think it will be a cold day in hell before we will begin to see much in the way of this OS being adopted by big businesses. It just is not intuitive enough for that to happen. I for one see the market as ripe for a new player, and I believe that whatever happens, the company that wins in the end will be the one that offers the most dynamic of choice to their customers, while still maintaining a secure and stable environment.

 

[Jf1450]

I can't remember who, maybe you musiclover7, but somebody in this thread said it best when they pointed out the obvious fact that to get to the Start Screen, you will totally be leaving your application(s) / work in progress and for me, train of thought. It is simply too distracting. It may be fine for those who use computers strictly for social media, but when they are used to make your living, to me it is simply unacceptable.

-jeff

So my attention is still taken away momentarily, but I'm doing fewer clicks.

My point exactly. I couldn't care less about a click count. If I am 10 levels deep in a program debugging subroutines I don't want or need my attention or thought process broken momentarily. It takes much longer than a moment to get your head back into it once diverted.

As for the Start8 comment, moot point. We're not talking third party kludge add-ons, we're talking Microsoft not giving those of us that use these things for business the proper tool and UI to do that business out of the box. It shouldn't need to be provided by a third party.

-jeff

 

[djsigma]

Your attention is taken away momentarily anyway, unless you can look through your Start menu and debug sub-routines at the same time.

And as for moot point, the whole whining about no Start menu is moot precisely because there are third party tools that do the job. Windows users have always had to use third party tools to do things that Windows could not do, or that do things better than the built-in options. I've never heard so much ridiculous whining about such a non-issue - and from people who are still using the OS anyway it seems! Folks who hate it enough to whine about something A YEAR after it was released, lol, but haven't quite got the courage of their convictions to dump it and use something else. If I was that mad about something, the first thing I'd do is dump it.

A: "I hate the iPhone, it sucks! Apple need to fix it cos they don't understand their customers at all!"
B: "Oh yeah? What phone do you use then if you hate the iPhone so much?"
A: "iPhone."
B: "................"

^^That's a large proportion of the Windows 8 hate posse in a nutshell, haha.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

All apps screen is a miss mosh, and you are missing the point. Jf was stating that for him, and
many others, it is distracting to leave your work behind and open an entire screen that feels like an entirely different
environment, just to accomplish basic tasks. Yes, there are other ways of doing things, but the point I was trying to make is
that after a year of use, I still wish I had the option of the old...

After a year you wish??!!

Insanity: Doing something over and over again attempting to obtain different a result.

I'm sorry, but after one year one would think that either you change it with 3rd party to your liking like others have done, simply give it up, stick to a prior OS, or move onto something else. I'll bet my next check that you're not going to get your precious Start Menu back any time soon. It may happen in 8.2 or or 9 or whatever, but it isn,t going to happen in these two editions. Please don't state the standard answer that you shouldn't have to use 3rd party because 8/8.1 are what they are > No more > No less.

Have you installed and tried 8.1? That's really what the subject of this thread is about > The changes made in 8.1, even though the author states that it isn't worth the upgrade, which is just an opinion.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

.......If I was that mad about something, the first thing I'd do is dump it.

A: "I hate the iPhone, it sucks! Apple need to fix it cos they don't understand their customers at all!"
B: "Oh yeah? What phone do you use then if you hate the iPhone so much?"
A: "iPhone."
B: "................"

^^That's a large proportion of the Windows 8 hate posse in a nutshell, haha.

That's about it. :thumb:

 

[pcRat]

I just set up a win 8 laptop for a friend and I wish I could say this was a unique experience. I set him loose with the start screen. I gave him shortcuts on his task bar and on his desktop to all his stuff. Let him run on his own for two weeks. He called me for advice numerous times, and I helped him out. Finally, on the 3rd call two weeks in, I connected remotely and installed classic shell. He immediately breathed a huge sigh of relief and commented later how much better it was.

Microsoft was beyond stupid forcing this new GUI on everyone, including their desktop users. It has been over a year, and I still have yet to communicate with anyone outside of these forums who likes the start screen over the old menu. The menu was faster, more concise, easier to use and did not require you to leave your work entirely to access it. There is nothing intuitive about the new GUI.. Forcing people to google how to shut down there computer on day one=a bunch of moronic designers. Enough said....

One or both of these toolbars may have helped
%UserProfile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

　
%UserProfile%\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch

 

[DavidY]

Folks who hate it enough to whine about something A YEAR after it was released, lol, but haven't quite got the courage of their convictions to dump it and use something else. If I was that mad about something, the first thing I'd do is dump it.

A: "I hate the iPhone, it sucks! Apple need to fix it cos they don't understand their customers at all!"
B: "Oh yeah? What phone do you use then if you hate the iPhone so much?"
A: "iPhone."
B: "................"

^^That's a large proportion of the Windows 8 hate posse in a nutshell, haha.

Yes but many of us don't get to choose what OS and software we use on computers at work, and it's for tasks at work that Metro is truly hopeless.

If for instance my work PC was upgraded to Windows 8, and the corporate IT folks gave us no way to open PDFs other than Metro's Reader app, my job would suddenly get much harder. And I would have no option to dump it, unless I quit my job which would be a bit too extreme!