I'm going to challenge all you Win8 haters...

[BillWindows]

MS doesn't HAVE to suffer a "failure" with Windows 8, the only thing that needs to be done is to give the customers a CHOICE of DEFAULT UI for every boot.

This is as easy as a few changes in the line of code for that option. Heck it was ALREADY in the initial version.

This is pretty radical I know, but how do we know for sure Microsoft hasn't been listening and will give people a choice to bypass Metro on the desktop in the retail version. Maybe they're just pushing Metro on us now to get everyone used to it and also let's them do their testing on Apps and such. If they gave us a choice now, most would turn it off, and they wouldn't be able to do a thorough test.

I don't mind the idea of that but it is a bit out there, but seeing as Microsoft is not pushing this for business it could be a reality.

 

[Colonel Travis]

Think you're right Bill that MS won't give us a choice, and I'm sure part of the reason would be the one you gave. But there's also another one.

Look how Ballmer described Vista:

2006 - it was part of the most significant product launches in MS history and a "game changer"
2008 - a work in progress
2009 - MS never recovered from this flop

This is one stubborn company and they've invested so much in Metro - no way they're gonna give anyone an out immediately. Took three years to admit Vista didn't work out like they'd planned. But we got 7 out of it, so I'm thinking good things for 9. On the other hand, if 2 of the past 3 OSs are duds - eeesh. It won't kill them but it will hurt.

 

[BFG]

MS doesn't HAVE to suffer a "failure" with Windows 8, the only thing that needs to be done is to give the customers a CHOICE of DEFAULT UI for every boot.

This is as easy as a few changes in the line of code for that option. Heck it was ALREADY in the initial version.

This is pretty radical I know, but how do we know for sure Microsoft hasn't been listening and will give people a choice to bypass Metro on the desktop in the retail version. Maybe they're just pushing Metro on us now to get everyone used to it and also let's them do their testing on Apps and such. If they gave us a choice now, most would turn it off, and they wouldn't be able to do a thorough test.

I don't mind the idea of that but it is a bit out there, but seeing as Microsoft is not pushing this for business it could be a reality.

This is what I'm hoping/waiting to find out in the retail. I don't mind trying out metro because it's a free preview. But if the choice doesn't come back in the retail version I most likely will not be buying it.

 

[BillWindows]

MS doesn't HAVE to suffer a "failure" with Windows 8, the only thing that needs to be done is to give the customers a CHOICE of DEFAULT UI for every boot.

This is as easy as a few changes in the line of code for that option. Heck it was ALREADY in the initial version.

This is pretty radical I know, but how do we know for sure Microsoft hasn't been listening and will give people a choice to bypass Metro on the desktop in the retail version. Maybe they're just pushing Metro on us now to get everyone used to it and also let's them do their testing on Apps and such. If they gave us a choice now, most would turn it off, and they wouldn't be able to do a thorough test.

I don't mind the idea of that but it is a bit out there, but seeing as Microsoft is not pushing this for business it could be a reality.

This is what I'm hoping/waiting to find out in the retail. I don't mind trying out metro because it's a free preview. But if the choice doesn't come back in the retail version I most likely will not be buying it.

I'm not sure its that radical, I've thought about this before and it is only a few lines of code and maybe a boot choice or button on the Metro screen to switch it on and off.
To me its no big deal, but to keep everyone happy, this could be a possibility. Like I said its no good doing it now as most people would turn it off.
I hope my assumption is correct, I would rather see a happy Windows world than a split one. I could even see me turning it on and off occasionally.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Microsoft's Stubborn Arrogance

Are you suggesting we lie and build up a product that is poor?

That seems to be the pro-Metro crowd line.

How is that going to help.

Exactly.
Just like people "hated" Vista, but Windows 7 has become the fastest selling OS in history.

The best thing that could happen (for consumers) is MS losing a few percentage points of market share.
It would mean that they'd "pull their fingers out" for Windows 9.

As other people have pointed out (many times) all that MS needs to do to have a win-win situation, is release:

• A "classic" version that is like Windows 7, but includes the actual W8 improvements (e.g. lower RAM usage, improved security and speed).
• A Metro version for the phone/tablet crowd.

It is only Microsoft's stubborn arrogance that prevents this.
"You will take what we're offering and you will like it."

 

[BillWindows]

Think you're right Bill that MS won't give us a choice, and I'm sure part of the reason would be the one you gave. But there's also another one.

Look how Ballmer described Vista:

2006 - it was part of the most significant product launches in MS history and a "game changer"
2008 - a work in progress
2009 - MS never recovered from this flop

This is one stubborn company and they've invested so much in Metro - no way they're gonna give anyone an out immediately. Took three years to admit Vista didn't work out like they'd planned. But we got 7 out of it, so I'm thinking good things for 9. On the other hand, if 2 of the past 3 OSs are duds - eeesh. It won't kill them but it will hurt.

To be honest I think even if Microsoft gives people the choice to turn it on and off, I think most people will stick with Metro, its becoming an App world, plus the fact that this will be huge on tablets where you wont be able to turn it off. The younger generation will go with Metro anyway, its mainly older Techies that will want to opt out of Metro. But it looks to me like some of the older guys are already starting to warm up to Metro as well.

Who knows maybe they can afford to be a little less stubborn this time, because I really think 8 is a world changer.

 

[J4rrod]

I'm going to go with what a guy said earlier: let's see everyone's Start screen. Let's see if you're actually giving it a try. Because honest to God, I believe some of you haven't even made it your own.

I've attached mine.

 

[Colonel Travis]

J4rrod - that screen you have there? That's exactly the reason I'm not using 8 any more. I did what you did before you even joined this site.

 

[J4rrod]

Colonel Travis - I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about...

 

[Colonel Travis]

Tiles = deck chairs
Metro = Titanic

 

[Coke Robot]

I find that Bill and I are concerned with the haters because some are slandering blasphemies when they haven't used it themselves.

There are a lot of people here and elsewhere who have been very specific in their criticisms. You fanboys dismiss it all by saying the person is "stuck in the past", bleating "touch is the future", calling them "haters", and giving out other such drivel. You're not fooling anybody, except maybe a few fools.

I have specific criticisms about some of the criticisms about 8. I haven't seen a whole ton of specific criticisms other than: full screen apps, a "lack of Desktop productivity" when the situations posed are very hypothetical, a lack of choice in what you see when you boot up, too simple of a design, too confusing of a design, and the best of all it doesn't work with a mouse or keyboard.

See, it's a matter of perspective.

To me, I find those criticisms odd considering it's a new operating system that is supposed to be incredibly different, hence the term "A new Windows for new PCs." If it's different, so what? Every new Windows is different somehow and always has a learning curve. I don't say that a person is stuck in the past, probably only when they disregard the present situation of technology and refuse to acknowledge it and its use. Look at it from my perspective, I've used Windows 8 since last fall, I've used a metro designed program for a couple of years, I use a metro designed phone. To me, I'm already used to the different design and UI to the point where it's more intriguing than distaining. When I hear of people saying they want to switch the metro UI off, it makes no sense to me since that's half of 8's new UI. Yes, some want to keep on the Desktop. But again, that makes little sense to me since the Desktop is still there and works perfect with the Start Screen. To me, I don't see the Start Screen as a start menu replacement, it's a bit of that but more of a huge taskbar. You switch around. It computes to me since, again, I'm used to the UI and the design. Before you dismiss the proponents of it, you should dismiss the oppositions complaints and just use it for what it is.

 

[Coke Robot]

Are you suggesting we lie and build up a product that is poor?

How is that going to help.

Better to tell it like it is - better for MS too.

They will get it right next time.

Fortunately for MS , Apple are not operating in most of windows existing markets.


Don't worry too much about MS - it will be painful for them , but it won't be the end.

Not unless they mess up the next one as well.

I don't see that happening - win9 will embody all they have learnt from their mistakes.

They will come out the stronger for it.

Win8 is not going to be a terrible disaster - it will be a damp squib.

No one suggesting you lie about anything, all anyone is suggesting using Windows 8 as it is. It's different.

 

[Coke Robot]

Think you're right Bill that MS won't give us a choice, and I'm sure part of the reason would be the one you gave. But there's also another one.

Look how Ballmer described Vista:

2006 - it was part of the most significant product launches in MS history and a "game changer"
2008 - a work in progress
2009 - MS never recovered from this flop

This is one stubborn company and they've invested so much in Metro - no way they're gonna give anyone an out immediately. Took three years to admit Vista didn't work out like they'd planned. But we got 7 out of it, so I'm thinking good things for 9. On the other hand, if 2 of the past 3 OSs are duds - eeesh. It won't kill them but it will hurt.

To be honest I think even if Microsoft gives people the choice to turn it on and off, I think most people will stick with Metro, its becoming an App world, plus the fact that this will be huge on tablets where you wont be able to turn it off. The younger generation will go with Metro anyway, its mainly older Techies that will want to opt out of Metro. But it looks to me like some of the older guys are already starting to warm up to Metro as well.

Who knows maybe they can afford to be a little less stubborn this time, because I really think 8 is a world changer.

I think you might be more right about the "app world." Today, I was looking around at some Windows 7 slates, and it struck me how good Windows 7 would had been as a touch OS. It actually is, since some of the UI was redesigned for touch input and navigation. But the thing that caught that idea and killed it was apps and games. Many people use apps on their phones for tablets with neutered phone OSs on them for things that a Windows 7 PC, laptop, or slate doesn't have. Some are useful, while many are rather simpleton entertainment apps.

Speaking of such, the younger generations I bet will pick up on the metro design pretty well compared to the older tech crowd. It's something new and totally different. It's impressionable. Heck, I fall within the younger generation and I like metro design. I actually have three other friends, casual Windows users, testing Windows 8 Consumer Preview on their laptops and one desktop, and they reported back that they actually like Windows 8 and find it's better than 7. One thing of which they like is the Start Screen. I've also interviewed them and asked if new users to it will be turned off by the Start Screen, they kind of agreed with that. But then they also said that if they used it for about an hour, they will like it. I've even had my gamer friend, who initially didn't like Windows 8 for the Start Screen and metro apps, use my Windows 8 To Go drive on his PC and afterwards, he said he would buy it after using it for 20 minutes.

I think that's why the younger crowd will like it more, we're more likely to try something new. I think that's why there might be huge complaints about 8 is because it's coming from an older tech crowd that was conformed to strict mouse and keyboard usage strictly on a Windows OS with a start menu. The Windows user demographic is changing.

 

[Coke Robot]

J4rrod - that screen you have there? That's exactly the reason I'm not using 8 any more. I did what you did before you even joined this site.

What about something more Desktop friendly?


Say, if I may inquire, if you're not using Windows 8 anymore, why are parading around saying Windows 8 is awful for its metro design? And, I want to see how you've customized your Start Screen? If that is at all possible...I'm curious to see.

 

[Coke Robot]

Tiles = deck chairs
Metro = Titanic

You're from Texas right?

 

[poppa bear]

Tiles = deck chairs
Metro = Titanic

Absolutely brilliant! :thumb:

Why bother to rearrange the deck chairs when the boat's going down?

 

[poppa bear]

Tiles = deck chairs
Metro = Titanic

You're from Texas right?

And you're from the Bronx ... right?

 

[poppa bear]

What about something more Desktop friendly?
View attachment 6708

What a kaleidoscopic nightmare!

I mean, whoever did that ... what were they on, man! Could be a cross between LSD & magic mushrooms!

And as useless as tits on a bull!
That takes up a whole screen page. A classic menu would fit it all in a few small lines.

 

[tseven]

I don't think just because people don't like metro means they are stuck in the past and don't want future. While touch and tablets are part of the future, the metro interface in itself isn't. I like the idea of metro but the philosophies involved are nothing new. Whether or not metro is the future is up to the users to decide. Some might feel metro is the future and some might not. Also it's obvious we are not looking for Microsoft to fail if we were we wouldn't voice how they could improve their product and instead would be wishing them death.

Also as I've mentioned previously everyone has their own opinion just because some don't like it or some do doesn't make anyone's choice right or wrong. I don't completely hate or like metro I'd say I'm in between. I will be the first to admit that I did not customize it(I find it to look like a mess from the customizations to make things work from what I've seen personally).But there lies the problem, I like them giving you a choice to customize(although there isn't actually a whole lot of choice in metro to personalize your system) but some users don't care to customize. But more importantly they are breaking their own idea for how this operating system should be. Their goal was to make it just work. It doesn't work if you have to do extra just to add system tools to the start screen. It's not hard exactly but if that was supposed to be a solution it should already be there. We shouldn't have to make our own list of important tools that make navigation much easier. That defeats the purpose of just working. If it doesn't just work right when you get it then they have failed in achieving their ultimate goal.

At it's core this windows is not actually a new windows. It is just the same with add ons such as the tablet component and a bit of a changed user interface. There isn't much that has radically changed for it to be a new system. I like metro but the interface has been used before. I forgot where I've seen it but the interface they created for windows 8 on the tablet side isn't actually a new design. I love metro when it's done well such as on the zune HD. Here they haven't brought out the full potential of their own design. The earlier phone concepts were much more interesting than the start screen.

In the end I don't hate windows 8. Nor do I wish them bad luck as I don't even know Microsoft personally. Metro could be much better. However, I don't think the flatness on the desktop works which is my problem with metro because everything has to be flat there is no middle ground it seems. With iconography, program icons along with other content that will probably never be flat it just clashes. The desktop itself is just too complex to be as flat as they are going. Removing a few effects would have been enough but they really just went flat. Even in metro some things would benefit with some added effects not just for looks but for actual visibility. Even with some metro apps the icons are really detailed compared to the apps made by Microsoft which in itself creates a clash. Imagine if we could actually choose the colors and the wallpaper for the metro background, it would be a nightmare with the way how everything is right now. We sadly probably won't even be able to personalize it much. I don't like that we have to pan and scroll the start screen but since that's the way it seems they are going I would want to have the option of vertical scrolling. I've seen the portrait demos for a tablet it makes no sense that even on portrait the start screen would scroll horizontally at least for me. I would like to see it scroll vertically. The tiles for the desktop apps just clash and look awkward with the metro apps. It just doesn't fit in. The metro apps are not bad. But all the horizontal scroll is just crazy I wish there would be as I said before the option to have a vertical scroll or perhaps for the app just to take up the full screen and not have any extra scrolling but buttons that link to whatever you want to get to within the app itself. Some apps just have unnecessary scrolling especially horizontally. I have the cooking apps and one of them there isn't even anymore content yet it lets to scroll more horizontally. If they had taken away scrolling or made the content flow better without all that scrolling or maybe even given a choice of which way to scroll would have made it much better.

Just a few tweaks and they could make more people happy. Windows 8 isn't really all that radical without the start screen and a few changes in the desktop and practically it would be the same product. I would have wished for something more radical if they were really going to change it. I feel the reason why people are upset is not because of them creating this whole different operating system (because as I said it's actually not that different if you remove the metro tablet stuff) but because they are changing stuff up that is making things much more difficult for the user instead of easier. This goes against their goal for this operating system which apparently they got from Apple which is to make the product just work. I kind of like windows 8, but if this is what they meant by different, I had a completely different image in my mind.

 

[alphanumeric]

I don't hate Metro, I'm just not liking it on my desktop PC. If I had a tablet I might warm up to it more. I'm trying to give Windows 8 an honest go. I'm dual booting with Windows 7 but haven't booted into 7 in over a week. I've customized the Metro screen to make it easier to use. I haven't installed any program to resurrect the Start Menu. I still don't like it, plain and simple. Not on my desktop PC that doesn't have a touch screen. If you like it that's fine. Just don't keep telling me, I'm doing it wrong, you'll get used to it, I think its better so it must be and your obviously wrong. It gets irritating and then people say things they normally wouldn't.

I think Microsoft have a hard road ahead of them as far as Windows 8 goes. Forget about desktops for the moment, or even laptops. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Windows 8 won't run on a lot the current Android tablets out there will it? And then even on an ARM based tablet your locked out of your regular desktop applications. To move up to a true Windows tablet with an x86 processor is going to cost quit a bit more money in the end. I would think you would be in (non touch screen) laptop territory then. I'm not sure how that would play out. That could end up making the low cost Android tablets even more appealing. especially if you're already running Android on your phone?