I'm going to challenge all you Win8 haters...

[legacy7955]

BillWindows and Cokey:

The fact is that even those of us who dislike Metro are not against it, until MS REFUSED to allow the user the OPTION to select which UI would be the default on every boot that meets OUR needs.

The point is that MANY loyal MS customers are also serious power users or just like how the desktop UI works for them, and I admit that for tablet use and phones Metro is a good option..
BUT for my work needs it is NOT a good option and I do not want to use it on a laptop or desktop computer.


Mea Culpa MS...admit that the customer should have the CHOICE of which default UI to use for various situations....make it a one click and stick solution that occurs during initial set up and allow it to be changed again if the customer so desires.

MS is going to lose a LOT of loyal customers because of this, ones like me that would gladly have bought a WinPhone or Tablet with Windows 8 Metro on them, but since they are Uninterested in what MOST loyal customers want, they will lose additional business.

 

[Colonel Travis]

Okay fellas you win I hate Metro, you've won me over, I want to live in the past too. Now that I'm like you, tell me what we are going to do. I'll listen and follow, what have you got planned.

C'mon, Bill, this isn't what Metro haters are saying. The future can't get here fast enough for me. It's got nothing to do with hating the future and loving the past or what's current. I think it's beyond ridiculous you can't even take a USB drive/phone/iPod/anything out of the socket without asking permission from Mr. Safely Remove Hardware. It's got everything to do with loving what works and not what doesn't work. And even that is subjective, although it could be deeper than just subjective if enough PC users refuse to use 8. We're not gonna know for a while. Regardless, if you like 8 and 8 works for you, why are you concerned if others don't see it that way? MS isn't going anywhere even if this one's a flop. Even if MS did disappear, you'd still have 8 to cuddle up with at night.

At the same time, I agree with that quote you included from Mark Donovan. In fact, most critics have been making this distinction all along. Metro on a tablet or phone? Seems like a good fit. Desktop? Ugh. It's getting slammed hard by a lot of people because a desktop is not a tablet or a phone. All three do different things. Coordinating between all three is fine and dandy. It makes sense to be able to go between your devices and a PC as effortlessly as possible. Who's arguing for it to be more of a PITA?

 

[Coke Robot]

You know what they say about opinions, they're like poo, everyone's got one.

Yep, and some stink! No reference to anyone in particular of course!

The people that are adjusting the Start Screen to their needs are making it act like a start menu! I want to use 8 as my main OS, so I configure it to how I want it. I haven't seen workarounds proposed by many proponents. I've seen people switching to Classic Shell and liking 8 ...

And you're telling me you don't call Classic Shell a work around? And the work you have to do on it to get it as you want it? Come on!!!

You've admitted you have to put it in to make Win8 viable! And it's third party software! That's a work around in anybody's language! A good system is one where you can take it out of the box, load it and it works straight off ... Start Menu and all. Try telling an average, non-geek home owner how to install Classic Shell.

After the many, many hours we put in on the Win7 forum creating a tutorial to hack WinMail from Vista to work on Win7 ... no way am I getting into hacks on Win8. As it stands it's a great runner that's been nobbled. However, if you think it's so much better than Win7 and worth all the work, well go for it! They're your $$$$ you're paying to Microsoft who won't bend!

I want to throw this out there, is it because Windows 8 isn't a Desktop first OS anymore?

You got it in one, buddy! At the very minimum they should have a dedicated desk top version ... but then that would involve more development costs. So this won't happen because M$ want one OS for all platforms from touch phones to desktop, and everything in between.

But as I said in earlier posts, time will tell when it hits the retail market. I'm taking friendly bets, that unless they make major changes, you can name your own odds! Which is a crying shame! We need Microsoft strong, but it can only happen if they listen to their clientele.

Configuring something isn't a workaround. I USE THE START SCREEN AND ON IT, I HAVE THINGS PINNED TO IT THAT THE DEFAULT DOESN'T HAVE. Like, all my Libraries, Computer....

Even then, Microsoft has said that the Start Screen will be adaptable to the user, the USER has to have some input to make it an adaptable interface. You can't just sit there and complain about something when you don't take the effort to actually use and make it somewhat familiar. By using Classic Shell, you're saying, "I choose not to use the Start Screen because instead of clicking Pin to Start and dragging things around so they're easier for me to get to, I choose to use what the past version of Windows had effectively making this new version useless to me." That's what I hear at least.

I've seen people switching to Classic Shell and liking 8 .... Sarcasm, should had reiterated it.

So the fact that the Desktop isn't what you see first and there is no start menu, that means the Desktop doesn't work at all? That's a trivial thing to not like about Windows 8. Yes, it's a lot about touch, it's a lot about a new interface, but it's still a lot about the Desktop.

It might just be a matter of perspective. I find that it's a perfectly good desktop OS and the default config of the Start Screen is one that it's showing off the metro aspect. I think a lot of the complaints are coming from people that look at the default config of it, and blow it off. Let me ask this, have YOU set up your Start Screen, not Classic Shell, in such a way that items from the start menu are there and accessible along with other items you use?

 

[Coke Robot]

Okay fellas you win I hate Metro, you've won me over, I want to live in the past too. Now that I'm like you, tell me what we are going to do. I'll listen and follow, what have you got planned.

C'mon, Bill, this isn't what Metro haters are saying. The future can't get here fast enough for me. It's got nothing to do with hating the future and loving the past or what's current. I think it's beyond ridiculous you can't even take a USB drive/phone/iPod/anything out of the socket without asking permission from Mr. Safely Remove Hardware. It's got everything to do with loving what works and not what doesn't work. And even that is subjective, although it could be deeper than just subjective if enough PC users refuse to use 8. We're not gonna know for a while. Regardless, if you like 8 and 8 works for you, why are you concerned if others don't see it that way? MS isn't going anywhere even if this one's a flop. Even if MS did disappear, you'd still have 8 to cuddle up with at night.

At the same time, I agree with that quote you included from Mark Donovan. In fact, most critics have been making this distinction all along. Metro on a tablet or phone? Seems like a good fit. Desktop? Ugh. It's getting slammed hard by a lot of people because a desktop is not a tablet or a phone. All three do different things. Coordinating between all three is fine and dandy. It makes sense to be able to go between your devices and a PC as effortlessly as possible. Who's arguing for it to be more of a PITA?

I find that Bill and I are concerned with the haters because some are slandering blasphemies when they haven't used it themselves. It could be the fact that some choose not use the Start Screen because they don't configure it in a way to adapt to their workflow. That, along with other things, can effectively neuter Windows 8 before it even comes out because the average person relies on US, the people that use and know Windows to suggest what kind of computer to buy, what version of software to use, if they should use the latest Windows, ect.....ect..... When people like us that are not fully informed about Windows 8 and blow it off before not even customizing, personalizing, tweaking it even, discovering it; that word of mouth gets passed around. So instead of wishing Microsoft well and at least some success, we end up getting the average person thinking Windows 8 is awful, it's dumbed down, it's pointless, THAT, that in essence is probably the main reason why myself and many others are "concerned" about the 8 hate is that. Misinformation. Much like what happened with vista, many of us had issues with it, some didn't and the ones that didn't praised it. What happened? The average person avoided it like the plague until 7.

A lot is at stake for many people...

 

[Coke Robot]

I want to throw this out for EVERYONE out here, show what your Start Screen is like. Then we'll discuss... How about that?

 

[Coke Robot]

I guess my main question is, why do you hate Metro? Aesthetics is not a valid point, either, because that's an opinion. I really would like to hear why, and valid reasons.

This is funny and typical of many (not all) Metro lovers. Nothing satisfies you Metro people when faced with counter-arguments. Nothing. Every reason Metro haters just gave you in this thread you blew off. This is what you just did: you came back and said - "OK, all that stuff you all said? I don't care." What's the point of discussing this? I've said this many times and I'll say it again, but Metro haters don't care if you love it. You go love it. It's when you insist we love it that it gets a little annoying. How about you just love it on your own? Is that not good enough? Obviously not. I don't understand this need to be loved as a Metro lover. Not every Metro lover is like this but a lot are and it's kinda creepy. It's like you're taking this personally. You yourself are not the object of Metro haters' anger.

Aesthetics is the main reason.

I think Metro looks awful. You don't? Terrific. Therefore, your opinion is valid and mine isn't? Sorry, but that's pathetic. If something doesn't attract, it repels. I don't think there can be a neutral position here. If you're not attracted but think you're also not repelled, you're still fundamentally not attracted, so I only see the two outcomes. Since Metro is repelling to me, I don't want to use it. It really is no more complex than that. Do you like everything? And by "everything" I mean everything. Of course not. You don't like every genre of music, you don't like every kind of food, you don't like every player who plays every sport, you don't like every automobile, you don't like every movie, you don't like every book. Why do people like different things? I can't explain it. It just happens. Trying to warm up to something that repels isn't fun. So, right off the bat I don't even want to use Metro because it looks like MS consulted a classroom of 6-year-olds with construction paper and Elmer's glue.

I just said I can't stand Metro because of the way it looks, right? Well, it operates precisely because of the way it looks, and since I hate the way it looks, chances are I'm gonna hate the way it operates. Form and function go together. The detailed reasons why I and others can't stand Metro are plastered in detail all over this thread, all over this site, all over the entire internet - big dumb colored boxes in your face, no Start menu, useless apps, absolutely no continuity between Metro and the rest of the OS, blah, blah, blah. You want your weather box right there when you turn on your computer? Awesome. I don't. How about that - two different ways of looking at a weather box. In fact, I don't want any boxes right there in front of my face. That's why I like the Start Menu. Yeah, but the Start Menu is so old. That's nice. The English language is about 1,000 years older than the Start Menu and that's what we're all typing in here. Guess it's time to dump English.

Nothing in Metro is of use to me. And when I say "nothing" I literally mean "no" and "things" combined are of use to me because of how they look and how they operate. I could ask you to go hunt for these reasons on this site because they are not hard to find. But I sincerely don't think in your case it would matter, and I'm not saying this as an insult. It's just that you've indicated, like so many other Metro lovers, that you don't really care about these reasons. Seems to me all you want is people to agree with you.

Then the question I pose: do you use Windows 8? And if you don't, why are on a forum about Windows 8?

 

[Coke Robot]

No blow it I'm going to stay in the now and embrace Metro and hope it works for Microsoft, I just read the following.

""Tablets are one of the most rapidly adopted consumer technologies in history and are poised to fundamentally disrupt the way people engage with the digital world both on-the-go and perhaps most notably, in the home," Mark Donovan, ComScore's senior vice president of mobile, said in a statement announcing the findings. "It's not surprising to see that once consumers get their hands on their first tablet, they are using them for any number of media habits including TV viewing."

Yep. I find that I should go back to using a start menu with countless folders, most of which I will never see or never use. I'll just pin everything to my taskbar because I get to look at my Desktop interface and why do I need a new operating system again?.....

(facepalm)

 

[SIW2]

Just possibly because:

he is a long time windows user and supporter. He is interested to see any new MS offering. He is perfectly entitled to criticise if he chooses - that is what a preview/beta is for.

If there were only windows 8 lovers on this forum , it would close down.

 

[BillWindows]

Okay fellas you win I hate Metro, you've won me over, I want to live in the past too. Now that I'm like you, tell me what we are going to do. I'll listen and follow, what have you got planned.

C'mon, Bill, this isn't what Metro haters are saying. The future can't get here fast enough for me. It's got nothing to do with hating the future and loving the past or what's current. I think it's beyond ridiculous you can't even take a USB drive/phone/iPod/anything out of the socket without asking permission from Mr. Safely Remove Hardware. It's got everything to do with loving what works and not what doesn't work. And even that is subjective, although it could be deeper than just subjective if enough PC users refuse to use 8. We're not gonna know for a while. Regardless, if you like 8 and 8 works for you, why are you concerned if others don't see it that way? MS isn't going anywhere even if this one's a flop. Even if MS did disappear, you'd still have 8 to cuddle up with at night.

At the same time, I agree with that quote you included from Mark Donovan. In fact, most critics have been making this distinction all along. Metro on a tablet or phone? Seems like a good fit. Desktop? Ugh. It's getting slammed hard by a lot of people because a desktop is not a tablet or a phone. All three do different things. Coordinating between all three is fine and dandy. It makes sense to be able to go between your devices and a PC as effortlessly as possible. Who's arguing for it to be more of a PITA?

You know it's funny you say I'd be able to cuddle up with 8 at night, because I actually cuddle up with an iPad. I also have an Android tablet which I don't use as much since I got the iPad. I think that's why I know Microsoft is in trouble, these tablets are very habit forming. Even before the tablets I found I was using my Android phone to access the Internet a lot. I also have a few PC's, laptops and home theatre PC's running Windows. All my PC's tablets and phone are wirelessly connected to my NAS through a router.

That's why I want Microsoft to win this war because I want everything to be Windows, for me it would be easier. I have discovered Apps and decided I like them, so having them on a desktop is a bonus for me. I'm not saying I want Android and Apple to go away, I just want Microsoft to stay strong, and I believe their strategy is the right one. If its the wrong one I believe Microsoft will suffer.

 

[SIW2]

Yes, MS will suffer.

I have no reason to doubt they will go back to the drawing board - pay attention to their customers needs and produce a real winner with win9.

In the long term that will be best for MS , for the consumer , and for the world.

 

[BillWindows]

Okay fellas you win I hate Metro, you've won me over, I want to live in the past too. Now that I'm like you, tell me what we are going to do. I'll listen and follow, what have you got planned.

C'mon, Bill, this isn't what Metro haters are saying. The future can't get here fast enough for me. It's got nothing to do with hating the future and loving the past or what's current. I think it's beyond ridiculous you can't even take a USB drive/phone/iPod/anything out of the socket without asking permission from Mr. Safely Remove Hardware. It's got everything to do with loving what works and not what doesn't work. And even that is subjective, although it could be deeper than just subjective if enough PC users refuse to use 8. We're not gonna know for a while. Regardless, if you like 8 and 8 works for you, why are you concerned if others don't see it that way? MS isn't going anywhere even if this one's a flop. Even if MS did disappear, you'd still have 8 to cuddle up with at night.

At the same time, I agree with that quote you included from Mark Donovan. In fact, most critics have been making this distinction all along. Metro on a tablet or phone? Seems like a good fit. Desktop? Ugh. It's getting slammed hard by a lot of people because a desktop is not a tablet or a phone. All three do different things. Coordinating between all three is fine and dandy. It makes sense to be able to go between your devices and a PC as effortlessly as possible. Who's arguing for it to be more of a PITA?

I find that Bill and I are concerned with the haters because some are slandering blasphemies when they haven't used it themselves. It could be the fact that some choose not use the Start Screen because they don't configure it in a way to adapt to their workflow. That, along with other things, can effectively neuter Windows 8 before it even comes out because the average person relies on US, the people that use and know Windows to suggest what kind of computer to buy, what version of software to use, if they should use the latest Windows, ect.....ect..... When people like us that are not fully informed about Windows 8 and blow it off before not even customizing, personalizing, tweaking it even, discovering it; that word of mouth gets passed around. So instead of wishing Microsoft well and at least some success, we end up getting the average person thinking Windows 8 is awful, it's dumbed down, it's pointless, THAT, that in essence is probably the main reason why myself and many others are "concerned" about the 8 hate is that. Misinformation. Much like what happened with vista, many of us had issues with it, some didn't and the ones that didn't praised it. What happened? The average person avoided it like the plague until 7.

A lot is at stake for many people...

Yep, that last bit says it all, a lot is at stake. If you look on the Internet you'll find most tech bloggers are dying for Microsoft to fail, and if we Windows users are rubbishing Microsoft as well we might as well hand them a shovel.
The whole world is in love with Apple and to a certain extent Android, if Windows 8, shows any faults at all when it comes out, it will be ridiculed just like RIM is now, and we know how good that's been for RIM.

If we as Windows users cant accept it, it will be just more fodder for the bloggers.

 

[BillWindows]

Yes, MS will suffer.

I have no reason to doubt they will go back to the drawing board - pay attention to their customers needs and produce a real winner with win9.

In the long term that will be best for MS , for the consumer , and for the world.

Forget about Windows 9, if Windows 8 fails, the Tech bloggers will Drive a nail into Microsofts coffin I can assure you.

 

[SIW2]

Are you suggesting we lie and build up a product that is poor?

How is that going to help.

Better to tell it like it is - better for MS too.

They will get it right next time.

Fortunately for MS , Apple are not operating in most of windows existing markets.


Don't worry too much about MS - it will be painful for them , but it won't be the end.

Not unless they mess up the next one as well.

I don't see that happening - win9 will embody all they have learnt from their mistakes.

They will come out the stronger for it.

Win8 is not going to be a terrible disaster - it will be a damp squib.

 

[BillWindows]

Are you suggesting we lie and build up a product that is poor?

How is that going to help.

Better to tell it like it is - better for MS too.

They will get it right next time.

Fortunately for MS , Apple are not operating in most of windows existing markets.

With 100 billion dollars and growing, how long do you think Apple is going to sit around if Microsft stumbles again.

 

[legacy7955]

MS doesn't HAVE to suffer a "failure" with Windows 8, the only thing that needs to be done is to give the customers a CHOICE of DEFAULT UI for every boot.

This is as easy as a few changes in the line of code for that option. Heck it was ALREADY in the initial version.

 

[SIW2]

Interesting thought from Mike who at one time was director of Mac Platform Marketing:

Ahhh, Steve. If only you were around to see this.

Twenty-five years ago Microsoft copied the Mac interface and confined Macintosh to a tiny sliver of the PC market. Despite all the progress you've made since then, Macintosh continues to command under 10% of the worldwide PC market. But now, at long last, Windows is vulnerable to a potential knockout. If the Windows 8 transition is as uncomfortable as I expect, you might be able to peel away large numbers of PC users and trigger a collapse of Windows sales.

You'd have to make some compromises, creating special Mac bundles with Windows emulators and file migration tools. And you'd have to jump back into doing Mac vs. PC advertising, this time welcoming the guy with the dorky jacket into your club. It's risky, and in some ways it's backward-looking at a time when Apple is looking forward to conquering television and maybe the auto market. But the PC market is worth about $300 billion in revenue a year, at a time when it's becoming harder to maintain Apple's sales growth. Where else can you so easily tap into that big a pool of revenue? Besides, how cool would it be to finally be the leading PC platform in the world again, after all those years? Talk about changing the world...

If Steve were here, I think he'd be sorely tempted to attack. I don't know what Apple's new management will do. But somebody in Redmond ought to be really scared of the possibility.

Do you really think Apple would do that - apart from the fact they haven't got time.

They can't compete at below about the $1200 level (uk prices).

 

[crawfish]

I find that Bill and I are concerned with the haters because some are slandering blasphemies when they haven't used it themselves.

There are a lot of people here and elsewhere who have been very specific in their criticisms. You fanboys dismiss it all by saying the person is "stuck in the past", bleating "touch is the future", calling them "haters", and giving out other such drivel. You're not fooling anybody, except maybe a few fools.

 

[SIW2]

I understand what Bill is getting at.

I am of the opinion we need as much competition as possible - it would be better for everyone if Linux as a desktop o/s had enough of a market share to be considered a viable alternative by the consumer.

I don't see that happening in the near future.

 

[legacy7955]

I understand what Bill is getting at.

I am of the opinion we need as much competition as possible - it would be better for everyone if Linux as a desktop o/s had enough of a market share to be considered a viable alternative by the consumer.

I don't see that happening in the near future.

The way that could happen is if the Linux umbrella orgs could decide on perhaps two versions on Linux to promote.

It's a GREAT OS, the only problem is the splintering makes it difficult for most folks to understand this OS.

 

[Colonel Travis]

I understand what Bill is getting at.

I am of the opinion we need as much competition as possible - it would be better for everyone if Linux as a desktop o/s had enough of a market share to be considered a viable alternative by the consumer.

I don't see that happening in the near future.

Agree with this. At the same time, I don't care what MS does. Don't care what Apple does. Don't care what Linux does. I have no personal stake in any of these companies, which is why I don't care if 8 is a dud or anything anyone else does is a dud. Duds happen and I trust MS to be sensible long-term. You can't create an OS like 7 and be a company full of stubborn morons. If they screw up long-term, they won't be in business and someone else will pick up the slack - and trust me, if it ever gets to that point, someone else will because MS has too much slack to just leave sitting there. But this is also precisely the reason why I don't see MS going down the tubes.