How Microsoft can salvage Windows 8 before it's too late

This is a tough challenge, given that Windows 8 is only a few months away from release. There's not a lot that Microsoft can do in this time. However, given that the Redmond giant has already gone on the record to say that the UI that we see in the Windows 8 Release Preview is not what will be in the final release, it's safe to say that things are in a certain state of flux.

As I've said on numerous occasions, the biggest problem with Windows 8 is the way that the dumbed-down Metro UI has been unceremoniously bolted onto the mature and well-refined "Classic" user interface. While there's no doubt that the existing UI is flawed, bolting on a UI designed for touch devices is not the answer.

OK, you asked me to keep this concise, so here it is. Here's how I think Microsoft should tweak Windows 8 before it's released:

Read more at:
How Microsoft can salvage Windows 8 before it's too late | ZDNet

 

[Mustang]

As of this moment in time there's nothing that makes me want to switch. I despise Metro, don't care for the new Ribbon Explorer interface, I'm perfectly comfortable using 7.

That's the direction I'm tending more toward.

Win8 can be configured to work the way I want it to, but not sure I can be bothered for the small gain over Win7.

Can't definitively say until final release available. However, @$40 for upgrade though, will probably get it, if for no other reason than to keep my Windows disks anthology complete.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Mustang said:

However, @$40 for upgrade though, will probably get it, if for no other reason than to keep my Windows disks anthology complete.

Copycat

 

[SIW2]

I'm sure M$ and others they hire to do independents have executed a ton of surveys. M$ is a successful multi $billion business. I think they might know a little about what they're doing and which specific market to target and with what software to shoot that market with.

That is why they never release a product which is unpopular.

You might not have noticed MS share price is half what it was a few years back.

@ some on this forum, especially some Pros

Most people aren't as stupid and slow as you may think, especially the younger. We live in a pretty-much literate world today. We're no longer in the dark ages. They will read the help files, seek personal help, or whatever it takes to learn something, what I believe, is drastically new, an OS named Windows 8. I suggest to come off your high horses and walk some ground down here. At least for a while.

It is not about learning a new UI.

It is about what win8 is for. The purpose is to lead people online to MS clouds.

The eventual aim is the o/s will boot up online, the average punter will get at it using any little simple device which has a few little squares to stab at.

The consequences of that are what concern the "pros".

 

[Mustang]

Mustang said:

However, @$40 for upgrade though, will probably get it, if for no other reason than to keep my Windows disks anthology complete.

Copycat

Oooopps! Sorry Mike, didn't see that you had already posted this sentiment!

But even if I had, is not imitation the greatest form of flattery!

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

SIW2 said:

That is why they never release a product which is unpopular.

Then explain Windows ME.

It is not about learning a new UI.

It is about what win8 is for. The purpose is to lead people online to MS clouds.
The eventual aim is the o/s will boot up online, the average punter will get at it using any little simple device which has a few little squares to stab at.

You're UNDER a misconception. Cloud computing started LONG before now. All cloud computing is, is the ability to save, and upload files to a centralized network (The CLOUD). Actually if you think about it, the Cloud is NOT attractive! Did you ever think WHO will also have access to the Cloud besides you? eh? Big Brother WILL be WATCHING the CLOUDS!

Also let me add, and you can ask Brink about this as well FCC mandates ALL internet messages be scanned, and reported DIRECTLY to them. BUT don't take it out on any forums/message board etc. This law was enacted WAY back in the days of a Online company called CompuServe. Seems some geniuses thought this would be the perfect media to use as a criminal frontend, so kidnappers used CompuServe's message board as a way to send ransom notes. Lovely eh? Way back in those days there was no way to track via IP Address. So in 1997 the FCC became a part of this media, and requested (forced) companies to
upload their weekly logs.

 

[Stratos]

Stratos, I don't believe the current iteration of Windows 8 would work in a business environment. I would LOVE to see what the professional version of Windows 8 will look like. I believe this version is for computer enthusiast, and not the corporate user(s). The cost involved in JUST the re-training of employees would be astronomical. BUT! Seeing as how Microsoft is also a business (Corporation) I am MORE than sure they will have an edition for businesses. Various different online sources have always stated that the biggest buyer of Microsoft Windows is the enthusiast. (Home-User)

Agreed, strictly from a cost-benefit analysis, Win8 at the moment doesn't look very good at all.

 

[rich4421972]

It wont be as hard as you think. Most people already know how to navigate around a smartphone UI so Win8 isnt much different.

I was referring to the hacks that allow a user to remove the lock screen or increase the screen resolution. These are both accessed through regedit and user account control. Technically, these things are not apparent or available in the default GUI. They must be hacked.

What I hoped to say was that Windows should have these options available to non-hackers. Presently they are not.

 

[Brink]

   Warning

Let's keep things friendly shall we, and stop with the snide comments.

Posts removed.

 

[pparks1]

I'm sure M$ and others they hire to do independents have executed a ton of surveys. M$ is a successful multi $billion business. I think they might know a little about what they're doing and which specific market to target and with what software to shoot that market with.

Historically thought, Microsoft hasn't been universally successful in their business ventures over time. They were so late to the web browser market that it was laughable. Microsoft Vista was universally despised by nearly everybody at launch and even after vendors got it together and SP1 made major improvements, it's image never truly recovered for many. Then we had Microsoft Bob....don't think this even needs to be discussed. Windows XP tablet edition.....went almost nowhere. Then, we had Ultimate TV...well a few people did and it went defunct. Then, we had the massively late arrival of the Microsoft Zune which accounts for something like 1.8% of the MP3 market to this day. Oops, don't let me forget Windows ME. There was the Microsoft Kin which lasted less than 1 full year in 2010. And there was some type of watch back in the early 2000's and for the life of me, I cannot remember what it was called. A google search would turn up the name...and that is what I would use, rather than BING...which again was terribly late to the market. So, in all fairness, these surveys and their knowledge and multi-billions of dollars don't guarantee a winner or something even well thought out.

And no, I don't hate Microsoft. I use their products daily. I manage Windows servers, I love Windows 7, I've been on Office and Exchange forever, I've got more Microsoft certs that I do any other vendor.

 

[rich4421972]

As of this moment in time there's nothing that makes me want to switch. I despise Metro, don't care for the new Ribbon Explorer interface, I'm perfectly comfortable using 7.

That's the direction I'm tending more toward.

Win8 can be configured to work the way I want it to, but not sure I can be bothered for the small gain over Win7.

Can't definitively say until final release available. However, @$40 for upgrade though, will probably get it, if for no other reason than to keep my Windows disks anthology complete.

I could not agree more. It is about getting used to a completely new way of thinking about things. The Windows Explorer is not even placed on the start menu. To me, the constant flipping back and forth between Metro and the desktop is dizzying. I feel; that I am getting a headache sometimes. I don't despise Metro, I do think it is annoying and I am not ready for change right now.

 

[R0bR]

Hello all, first post but I've been lurking for a while.

Users like those that participate in forums like these or read tech blogs and even the tech blog writers themselves are only a small percentage of Windows users in the grand scheme of things. Microsoft collects Windows usage information from the Customer Experience program on all their products, the default is checked to yes and common users tend to keep default settings. Based on these usage statistics common users make up over 80% of the install base while users like you and I are under 5%. The information has shown that most common users don't use the start menu, they mostly launch apps from shortcuts on their desktop or even use explorer. Working in IT I can say that a majority of our users fall into the same usage patterns, their desktops are littered with shortcuts. The other thing is that a majority of consumers PC functions involves browsing the internet, social sites, email etc and when required work on that occasional word document. What has been happening is that people are buying iPads, or other tablets, for their daily content ingestion then fall back onto their PCs or Macs when they need to do "other" work. The point I'm making here is that we need to take the blinders off in thinking that everyone is like us or use computers the way we do because we are in the minority.

Booting into the Desktop or Metro? Most peoples view of this is based on not only what they are used to but the fact that all their current applications are desktop apps. The common user is going to start their collection of Apps and they will out number their desktop Apps rather quickly. If their Windows 8 booted directly into the desktop they would be saying why doesn't it just boot to Metro so they can get to their Apps quickly.

The Enterprise. Most companies don't adopt early into a new OS and as in past iterations of Windows the consumer will have used the latest at home prior to even using it at work. Once the Enterprise is ready to start their upgrade cycle to Windows 8 most employees will have been using Windows 8 at home for some time already. Microsoft has never targeted Windows 8 for the Enterprise anyway, actually they have even said themselves that they don't expect adoption at the Enterprise level yet and that Windows 8 use will be more like the iPad as a companion device. All the Enterprise talk comes from tech blogs and the media. If Windows Server 2012 is any indication of what the Enterprise version of Windows 8 will be then it may boot to desktop after all. BTW, Windows Server 2012 still has a Start Screen.

Lastly, the Windows 8 Blogs are a good source of information on the why's of Windows 8 & Metro. They go into much detail about their design choices and is always a good read. From a lot of the responses and opinions I see in forums and tech blogs on Windows 8 I don't think many "techies" actually read it. Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

[Dave76]

Welcome to Eight Forums R0bR.

Very well said, I think the common users will adopt to Win8 very quickly. The ones that have tablets/slates even faster, and that group will increase in the short term.

MS will change to meet the needs of the largest user group.

 

[SIW2]

The information has shown that most common users don't use the start menu

I am pretty sure it has not shown that.

It may have shown start menu is used a little less often since the introduction of taskbar pinning.

I know a lot of average users - sure they have shortcuts and taskbar pins - but they still use the start menu a lot - it is their steering wheel.

If their Windows 8 booted directly into the desktop they would be saying why doesn't it just boot to Metro so they can get to their Apps quickly.

Nobody is asking for that. Let it boot to Metro by default - but allow a choice to change that to boot to desktop for those who want it.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

R0bR, I seriously doubt that. I myself use the start menu, I hate a desktop, and taskbar polluted with icons, It's just messy, and as the saying goes, a messy desktop makes a messy mind.

 

[jimbo45]

I'm sure M$ and others they hire to do independents have executed a ton of surveys. M$ is a successful multi $billion business. I think they might know a little about what they're doing and which specific market to target and with what software to shoot that market with.

That is why they never release a product which is unpopular.

You might not have noticed MS share price is half what it was a few years back.

@ some on this forum, especially some Pros

Most people aren't as stupid and slow as you may think, especially the younger. We live in a pretty-much literate world today. We're no longer in the dark ages. They will read the help files, seek personal help, or whatever it takes to learn something, what I believe, is drastically new, an OS named Windows 8. I suggest to come off your high horses and walk some ground down here. At least for a while.

It is not about learning a new UI.

It is about what win8 is for. The purpose is to lead people online to MS clouds.

The eventual aim is the o/s will boot up online, the average punter will get at it using any little simple device which has a few little squares to stab at.

The consequences of that are what concern the "pros".

Hi there
Please be careful of quoting share prices here -- some of us are still active Traders !!!.

Anyway for your information here's the 52 week high and low of Ms stock.

(Note I'm not commenting at all on your other observations -- just simply saying you need to be a bit more circumspect when posting Stock Exchange data.)

The 52 week high low price is about average for most of the S&P 500 lately -- until the Euro situation sorts itself out (and perhaps I shouldn't say this -- and Obama leaves the white house in November ) nothing dramatic will happen to US equities so Ms would be one of the LAST companies I'd worry about having an investment in.

I'm not sure if the other candidate would be any better either -- that's up to US voters to decide -- but Markets are quite clear on the issue -- they want Obama out regardless of other consequencies.

In any case remember the old UK stock exchange adage "... Sell in May and Go away...." -- then buy back in Sept or so.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Mustang]

Based on these usage statistics common users make up over 80% of the install base while users like you and I are under 5%. The information has shown that most common users don't use the start menu ...

I would have to strongly disagree with that statement. Usage figures are only statistically valid if the base they are collected from is representative of the total user population. All that proves is that 80% of those who responded don't use start menu. The real question is what % of buyers of MS products provide usage feedback?

Office workers, most experienced home users, power users and geeks, probably wouldn't bother providing feedback. That is certainly my personal experience with persons I have encountered in those groups ... and there have been many. Whenever I've put the question to them, the usual response I get is sardonic, like: "Get real, or Get a lfe".

Would be interesting to have stats on how many people register their product? And how many newbies install all the undesirable "optional extras" when installling freeware programs. Most end up with a truck load of add ons and search engines. Simply because a lot do it, does that make it a good thing?

If their Windows 8 booted directly into the desktop they would be saying why doesn't it just boot to Metro so they can get to their Apps quickly.

As SIW2 said, nobody is asking to remove Metro. But don't have it at the expense of depriving desktop users of a direct boot to desktop. We're simply asking that an optional boot be provided to cater to our needs. And a legacy start menu.

I mean, how hard is that? Shell Classic does both very quickly and easily. Why do Microsoft refuse?

You might ask: Well why worry if Classic Shell does it for you? My response would be: Why should we have to when we're paying the money for the product that keeps MS in business.

 

[rich4421972]

R0bR, I seriously doubt that. I myself use the start menu, I hate a desktop, and taskbar polluted with icons, It's just messy, and as the saying goes, a messy desktop makes a messy mind.

I agree with Lonewolf. I am firmly bound to the start menu--even more so now that I have been using Metro as my regular workstation. I am trying hard to get used to the fact that most non-metro apps will cause Metro to pause while it changes to the desktop in order to run a Windows application. I really don't use the Metro apps that much because I guess I am a desktop user at heart.

On the other hand, if I am in the 5% on this one, I still view my needs as being crucial to how I get work done. To me, a computer should make doing work easier. I am a little annoyed at how Win 8 must constantly shift back and forth between Metro and the desktop--I just wish that one or the other was robust enough to get its work done in an efficient manner. A messy desktop is confusing to me, also.

It's funny, but I installed Windows Classic shell once and found myself missing the simplicity of Metro.

 

[SIW2]

@Jimbo,

I wasn't commeneting on the last 52 weeks - I am talking a few years - It used to be around $60 - recently it has been around $30.

I am not sure if one can heap opprobrium on Steve Ballmer as the writer below does - still it gives an indication of the unfortunate plunge in MS value.

It is because they haven't been getting things right very often. That is the point I was making.


It probably won't suddenly go massively lower because whatever happens now - MS will still have cash rolling in for several years from previous deals.

Oops! Five CEOs Who Should Have Already Been Fired (Cisco, GE, WalMart, Sears, Microsoft) - Forbes

 

[R0bR]

I would have to strongly disagree with that statement. Usage figures are only statistically valid if the base they are collected from is representative of the total user population. All that proves is that 80% of those who responded don't use start menu. The real question is what % of buyers of MS products provide usage feedback?

Approx. 90% of the worlds PC population runs Windows, even if only 5% of those users leave the default setting for Customer Experience Program checked it's a large enough sample size to make any statistical feedback Microsoft receives valid. However I'm sure the percentage is much higher than that.

 

[McRuff]

Quoting Mark Twain and others.

There are "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

The reason it is being removed is to force people away from the desktop and towards Metro.

If someone looked at my usage of the start menu. They could claim I use it very infrequently. That is because my common programs are all in Quick Launch shortcuts, shortcut keys and the Macro Buttons on my keyboard. The occasionally used utilities etc are all filed away, sorted under folders in my start menu. Typing the executables name in the search box mostly would not work because they are only occasionally used and I would not know what to start typing.