Windows 8's learning curve to be addressed

Microsoft: Windows 8's learning curve needs addressing - Neowin

Microsoft Chief Marketing Officer Tami Reller has been speaking to The New York Times in relation to Windows Blue (Windows 8.1), the next big update to Windows 8 that will be released later this year. According to Reller, Microsoft acknowledge that Windows 8's learning curve is an issue, saying that it's "real and needs to be addressed," while she mentioned that some aspects of Windows 8 will be made easier to learn in Windows 8.1.

Reller didn't specify exactly what will be changed in Windows Blue – she mentioned more details will be unveiled during and in the lead up to BUILD 2013 – although she hinted the tutorial will be adjusted. "We need to help [users] learn faster,” and that's not being accomplished by the poor tutorial in Windows 8 that only shows new users how to open the Charms menu.

One aspect of Windows 8.1, which at this stage is only rumored to be coming back in the update, that should abate the steep learning curve is the Start button. Although the accompanying Start menu will likely not be returning, the visual familiarity of the Start button will make it easier for people to make the jump without getting lost, as currently Windows 8 doesn't feature any visual clues about how to return to the Start screen from the desktop.

Despite the learning curve of Windows 8, it continues to sell relatively well; Microsoft announced several days ago that they've sold more than 100 million Windows 8 licenses. Expect to see more information in relation to Windows Blue in the coming weeks, as Microsoft has promised to reveal more info ahead of BUILD including pricing and packaging specifics.

 

[SIW2]

The type is a bit big.

MS might be selectively deaf, but they are not blind.

 

[sygnus21]

It's amazing to think that a cola company in the early 80's (Coca Cola Company) took the hint about their iconic product and are still in business as a result. Perhaps today the same wouldn't be true..Why? The rise of MBAs, and the belief by modern day executives that they can force the customer to bend to THEIR needs. LOL....

I seriously believe that if MS refuses to ACTUALLY address the legitimate and SERIOUS gripes about Windows 8 that MS may become a footnote in history.

A bit dramatic don't you think?

And let's be realistic here, Microsoft isn't going away any sooner than any other Major software company out there. They may piddle off a few customers, but we'll still be drinking the coke

 

[Golden]

If MS could create decent Help files and Tutorials, then there wouldn't be a plethora of sites like VistaForums, SevenForums and EightForums (just to name 3).

Thats it right there! Is anybody willing to state that Windows Help files/tutorials are easier to follow than those here? Any takers?

 

[DavidY]

If you go to the Settings Charm, Help is literally there.

Well Yes and No. It's there if you open up the Settings Charm from the Start Screen, but if you're in Reader (as per example above) you bring up the Settings Charm and there's no Help visible there.

Problem is, no one knows it's there and no one really uses it.

Agreed, but I think that's mainly because Microsoft have been so hopeless about making Help visible and linking into it from applications.

What was so wrong with the word "Help" (or even a "?") being displayed on a screen where users could see it?

Or the old-school F1 keyboard shortcut? Plenty of other shortcuts work in Metro (Ctrl-P is another answer to the printing question) so why not F1?

Metro is a big change, so Microsoft should have made Help better, not much worse.

 

[SIW2]

What was so wrong with the word "Help" (or even a "?")

That is legacy, it would be holding back "progress". Luddites like you should be forcibly dragged into the 18th century, etc.........

 

[HippsieGypsie]

If you go to the Settings Charm, Help is literally there.

Well Yes and No. It's there if you open up the Settings Charm from the Start Screen, but if you're in Reader (as per example above) you bring up the Settings Charm and there's no Help visible there.

Ok. Not sure why Help is not in Reader for it's in every other app that I know of. If not Help it will have Support which is a link to the developer's web site. I did find this for Reader: Windows Reader: Frequently asked questions - Microsoft Windows Help Admittedly I found it in an odd place via the Charms Bar, but I found it. It took me all of two minutes.

Problem is, no one knows it's there and no one really uses it.

Agreed, but I think that's mainly because Microsoft have been so hopeless about making Help visible and linking into it from applications.

What was so wrong with the word "Help" (or even a "?") being displayed on a screen where users could see it?

Or the old-school F1 keyboard shortcut? Plenty of other shortcuts work in Metro (Ctrl-P is another answer to the printing question) so why not F1?

Metro is a big change, so Microsoft should have made Help better, not much worse.

Modern/Metro is a big change. Perhaps too large a change for most people to accept. It all depends on the person I suppose. Fear and pride are usually the obstacles. I also wondered why F1 is not the default shortcut key for Store apps Help as for Win32 desktop programs. However, WinKey/F1 is the overall Help key when anywhere in 8 which I think is excellent. This is just the same as past OSs.

Perhaps MS should have created a startup program like "Getting Started" or "What's New" I think they were called in Vista and 7. I used them for awhile then shut them off to open at start after I learned all the changes posted in them. Perhaps they could do better in the Help department, but reading members' posts here it doesn't look as if too many people use the help files anyway. Perhaps it's like the Start Menu where less and less users were using it so they abandoned it for something better.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

You guys want a real learning curve, if so then here is one: Determine all the build up points, the size of the blocks, the size of the soft caps, and all the mathematical block lay outs using a transit in a graving dock. Oh, the ship you will be doing the work up for is USN Carrier. Those are just the easy part of dry docking a carrier for work up.

And, yes this is one of the things I enjoyed doing for a living.

Sounds like a fulfilling career, Lee. :thumb: A lot of Trig I would imagine.

Send me the blueprints and the Help files. Sooner or later I'll figure it out. It will take me years longer, but I'll eventually get it.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

And just because a person is a high ranking official that doesn't make them an expert in all things.

Never said they had to be an expert in all things, just know some basics of a tool they're using or know where to find help easily when they're lost. I probably know more about computers and OSs than the average user, but I don't consider myself to be the savviest either. I do know one thing for sure > I know where the help files are, know how to read, and follow instructions.

Perhaps I'm just too "Old School".

I'm as old school as you can get, and I still wouldn't criticize someone for not using the help files on a PC because, in my opinion, they aren't as easy to read or understand, especially if you aren't a computer "geek" as we are.

And regardless what you and I think, computers can be daunting, and intimidating, especially to those with just has basic knowledge. I see this all the time in my computer classes.

And just because you and I have knowledge doesn't mean everyone else does. What if you went to a doctor for an illness and he said - "couldn't you have looked that up on the internet instead of wasting my time? That's a pretty common sense illness you have there."

To him, it's common sense, to you and I...

Agree. I've been in computers since 1998 and in all that time I may have looked at help files maybe 4 or 5 times.

Then did you have a private tutor to teach you how to use an OS? You had to start somehow.

The tutor I had was trial and error + reading and questioning. What I didn't utilize, and no one pushed, was the help files. That's me.

However I do recognize that not everyone is interested in computers beyond using them. Just as I'm not interested in medicine beyond keeping myself healthy.

My two cents.

I can remember my twenty-something son calling me once asking if I could come over to help him put together a furniture kit for he said he was having trouble. I asked him if it came with instructions. Yes. I asked him if he was reading the instructions. No. I know he knows how to use basic tools. I literally hung up on him. I didn't raise my kids to be dependent that way. He got my gist and did get the thing assembled via the instructions. Basically he just wanted me to do the work.

I don't think it to be fair comparing a complex human biological body created by nature to a computer created by man. Our brains alone are far more complex than any computer will probably ever be. Medical science has come far, but has a long way to go so far as understanding it, let alone putting it in a position for it to cure itself. I took biology in High School where I learned the basics. Not really interested all that much in human or other anatomy. I do like to read up on new discoveries like the Human Genome project. IMO People shouldn't be intimidated by a machine. If man built it, then another can understand it. Besides, I can't practice medicine, but I can build and use a computer. I can fix others' machines as well.

At first I was reading the Help files just to learn navigation and how to learn programs, especially Office suite. Then I got into customizing the system so far as desktop looks, Taskbar, fonts, etc. I kept getting deeper as to how the computer hardware worked. I soon learned how to format a disk and load OSs. This all happened because I was enthusiastic on the subject. No, I don't expect everyone to know computers as well as we do, but I should think a user should know at least where to get help with navigation and learn simple things like emailing, printing, sharing, and so on.

 

[Coke Robot]

Never said they had to be an expert in all things, just know some basics of a tool they're using or know where to find help easily when they're lost. I probably know more about computers and OSs than the average user, but I don't consider myself to be the savviest either. I do know one thing for sure > I know where the help files are, know how to read, and follow instructions.

Perhaps I'm just too "Old School".

I'm as old school as you can get, and I still wouldn't criticize someone for not using the help files on a PC because, in my opinion, they aren't as easy to read or understand, especially if you aren't a computer "geek" as we are.

And regardless what you and I think, computers can be daunting, and intimidating, especially to those with just has basic knowledge. I see this all the time in my computer classes.

And just because you and I have knowledge doesn't mean everyone else does. What if you went to a doctor for an illness and he said - "couldn't you have looked that up on the internet instead of wasting my time? That's a pretty common sense illness you have there."

To him, it's common sense, to you and I...

Then did you have a private tutor to teach you how to use an OS? You had to start somehow.

The tutor I had was trial and error + reading and questioning. What I didn't utilize, and no one pushed, was the help files. That's me.

However I do recognize that not everyone is interested in computers beyond using them. Just as I'm not interested in medicine beyond keeping myself healthy.

My two cents.

I can remember my twenty-something son calling me once asking if I could come over to help him put together a furniture kit for he said he was having trouble. I asked him if it came with instructions. Yes. I asked him if he was reading the instructions. No. I know he knows how to use basic tools. I literally hung up on him. I didn't raise my kids to be dependent that way. He got my gist and did get the thing assembled via the instructions. Basically he just wanted me to do the work.

I don't think it to be fair comparing a complex human biological body created by nature to a computer created by man. Our brains alone are far more complex than any computer will probably ever be. Medical science has come far, but has a long way to go so far as understanding it, let alone putting it in a position for it to cure itself. I took biology in High School where I learned the basics. Not really interested all that much in human or other anatomy. I do like to read up on new discoveries like the Human Genome project. IMO People shouldn't be intimidated by a machine. If man built it, then another can understand it. Besides, I can't practice medicine, but I can build and use a computer. I can fix others' machines as well.

At first I was reading the Help files just to learn navigation and how to learn programs, especially Office suite. Then I got into customizing the system so far as desktop looks, Taskbar, fonts, etc. I kept getting deeper as to how the computer hardware worked. I soon learned how to format a disk and load OSs. This all happened because I was enthusiastic on the subject. No, I don't expect everyone to know computers as well as we do, but I should think a user should know at least where to get help with navigation and learn simple things like emailing, printing, sharing, and so on.

Actually, it's predicted by Moore's law that there will be a CPU that meets the human brain's computational power this century, I think it was roughly around 2040? Think Star Trek Computer...

 

[jaebberwock]

Help files, lol.
Microsoft is certainly encouraging its use. There is no longer an option to install help files onto your PC. It lives in the cloud. No internet access? Well, you are SOL.

They also often redirect to their community help site which is downright laughable at times. Sometimes I feel like the low quality answers there just get in my way when I'm googling a problem. A lot of the contributors appear to be based out of India and judging by the answers posted, they don't even read the questions asked. They post some non-related solution and call it a day and I'm just like, wtf?? Why post anything at all? Why raise my hopes and then dash it? Why pollute my search results?

Ugh, rant over. Help files should definitely not be in "the cloud". Just have the client laptop help file mirror whatever updates they may have, is that so hard?

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Actually, it's predicted by Moore's law that there will be a CPU that meets the human brain's computational power this century, I think it was roughly around 2040? Think Star Trek Computer...

A programmable electronic computer due to the speed of the CPU is actually faster than then the human brain so far a calculating is concerned. It has been since inception. The first and foremost reason why the computer was invented in the first place. Alan Turing and his team at Bletchley Park for breaking the code of the German Enigma machine. In the U.S. the ENIAC to calculate artillery firing tables for the United States Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory. These were important machines to actually aid to win the war.

Computer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Konrad Zuse's electromechanical “Z machines.” The Z3 (1941) was the first working machine featuring binary arithmetic, including floating point arithmetic and a measure of programmability. In 1998 the Z3 was proved to be Turing complete, therefore being the world's first operational computer.[30]

- The non-programmable Atanasoff–Berry Computer (commenced in 1937, completed in 1941) which used vacuum tube based computation, binary numbers, and regenerative capacitor memory. The use of regenerative memory allowed it to be much more compact than its peers (being approximately the size of a large desk or workbench), since intermediate results could be stored and then fed back into the same set of computation elements.

- The secret British Colossus computers (1943),[31] which had limited programmability but demonstrated that a device using thousands of tubes could be reasonably reliable and electronically re-programmable. It was used for breaking German wartime codes.

- The Harvard Mark I (1944), a large-scale electromechanical computer with limited programmability.[32]

- The U.S. Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory ENIAC (1946), which used decimal arithmetic and is sometimes called the first general purpose electronic computer (since Konrad Zuse's Z3 of 1941 used electromagnets instead of electronics). Initially, however, ENIAC had an architecture which required rewiring a plugboard to change its programming.

So far as artifial intelligence is concerned, I don't think it to be possible with just an electronic machine anyway. We're talking more of the CYBORG "being" with both organic and cybernetic parts, which in some respects we already have with some organs, but not a full brain. Cyborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A full-blown CYBORG may be possible, but many, many years off. Even at that it may not be possible, for it is difficult to replicate just feelings and emotions alone let alone a whole human brain.

BTW, the great English director of the film The "Stepford Wives", Bryan Forbes, died the other day. One of the first hints of the CYBORG idea.

 

[Coke Robot]

Help files, lol.
Microsoft is certainly encouraging its use. There is no longer an option to install help files onto your PC. It lives in the cloud. No internet access? Well, you are SOL.

They also often redirect to their community help site which is downright laughable at times. Sometimes I feel like the low quality answers there just get in my way when I'm googling a problem. A lot of the contributors appear to be based out of India and judging by the answers posted, they don't even read the questions asked. They post some non-related solution and call it a day and I'm just like, wtf?? Why post anything at all? Why raise my hopes and then dash it? Why pollute my search results?

Ugh, rant over. Help files should definitely not be in "the cloud". Just have the client laptop help file mirror whatever updates they may have, is that so hard?

Yes, it is that hard because it requires constant updating of the Help files for offline use, only for it to take up space and not ever be used often enough to justify keeping them offline. Having video files offline takes up a bit of space when space is limited on certain tablet PCs.

But yes, their support forums....ugh.... Wow. Half the time they just post something TOTALLY off topic, a quarter of the time they try to help but doesn't solve the issue, and the other part of the time on rare instance they do solve an question. It would be better if it was redirected to Eight Forums.

 

[DavidY]

I did find this for Reader: Windows Reader: Frequently asked questions - Microsoft Windows Help Admittedly I found it in an odd place via the Charms Bar, but I found it. It took me all of two minutes.

Yes but it's out of date because Microsoft have since added an option to right-click and Print from there. Plus it doesn't mention the Ctrl-P shortcut (which I suspect was always there). So it's not great.

However, WinKey/F1 is the overall Help key when anywhere in 8 which I think is excellent. This is just the same as past OSs.

Ah I didn't know about WinKey/F1.


However it's not the same as in past OSs because it's not context-sensitive. Hit F1 in Notepad and it brings you to Help pages about Notepad. Hit WinKey/F1 in a Metro app (or Notepad) and it always seems to take you to the Help front page.

reading members' posts here it doesn't look as if too many people use the help files anyway.

Probably because no-one can figure out how to get to them.

 

[Jf1450]

Our brains alone are far more complex than any computer will probably ever be.

Seeing the direction society is going, this may be open to debate.

-jeff

 

[jaebberwock]

Help files, lol.
Microsoft is certainly encouraging its use. There is no longer an option to install help files onto your PC. It lives in the cloud. No internet access? Well, you are SOL.

They also often redirect to their community help site which is downright laughable at times. Sometimes I feel like the low quality answers there just get in my way when I'm googling a problem. A lot of the contributors appear to be based out of India and judging by the answers posted, they don't even read the questions asked. They post some non-related solution and call it a day and I'm just like, wtf?? Why post anything at all? Why raise my hopes and then dash it? Why pollute my search results?

Ugh, rant over. Help files should definitely not be in "the cloud". Just have the client laptop help file mirror whatever updates they may have, is that so hard?

Yes, it is that hard because it requires constant updating of the Help files for offline use, only for it to take up space and not ever be used often enough to justify keeping them offline. Having video files offline takes up a bit of space when space is limited on certain tablet PCs.

But yes, their support forums....ugh.... Wow. Half the time they just post something TOTALLY off topic, a quarter of the time they try to help but doesn't solve the issue, and the other part of the time on rare instance they do solve an question. It would be better if it was redirected to Eight Forums.

The thing about help files is that when you need it, you really need it. Sometimes, you can't really plan for it and internet access is not ubiquitous. Sometimes you're in a plane, sometimes you're stuck in a hotel and don't want to pay $10/night for wifi, or you're all tied to a single router in a conference room, sharing one pipe, or some weird messed up configurations when you have to all VPN in as a group.

Updating text isn't all that memory intensive. HTML text files that are thousands and thousands of pages are only a few megs, not much as far as Windows updates are concerned and storage is cheap. I think it is all part of getting us used to the cloud and tying more services up online. They used to let us install stand alone help files as an option but that isn't even offered.

Also, sometimes when I work at home, I shut down all my internet because it is just too dang easy to get distracted by kitty pictures and go off on a tangent. Like right now, I should get back to work....

But yeah, about the support community, I think Microsoft should pay the sevenforums/eightforums guys a retainer. It certainly beats the quality that comes from there.

 

[SIW2]

I shut down all my internet because it is just too dang easy to get distracted by kitty pictures

:shock:

 

[Coke Robot]

I did find this for Reader: Windows Reader: Frequently asked questions - Microsoft Windows Help Admittedly I found it in an odd place via the Charms Bar, but I found it. It took me all of two minutes.

Yes but it's out of date because Microsoft have since added an option to right-click and Print from there. Plus it doesn't mention the Ctrl-P shortcut (which I suspect was always there). So it's not great.

However, WinKey/F1 is the overall Help key when anywhere in 8 which I think is excellent. This is just the same as past OSs.

Ah I didn't know about WinKey/F1.


However it's not the same as in past OSs because it's not context-sensitive. Hit F1 in Notepad and it brings you to Help pages about Notepad. Hit WinKey/F1 in a Metro app (or Notepad) and it always seems to take you to the Help front page.

reading members' posts here it doesn't look as if too many people use the help files anyway.

Probably because no-one can figure out how to get to them.

And some people say they know how to use Windows 8! Posh!

 

[legacy7955]

Help files, lol.
Microsoft is certainly encouraging its use. There is no longer an option to install help files onto your PC. It lives in the cloud. No internet access? Well, you are SOL.

They also often redirect to their community help site which is downright laughable at times. Sometimes I feel like the low quality answers there just get in my way when I'm googling a problem. A lot of the contributors appear to be based out of India and judging by the answers posted, they don't even read the questions asked. They post some non-related solution and call it a day and I'm just like, wtf?? Why post anything at all? Why raise my hopes and then dash it? Why pollute my search results?

Ugh, rant over. Help files should definitely not be in "the cloud". Just have the client laptop help file mirror whatever updates they may have, is that so hard?

So right about "cloud" based items like "help". There are MANY times when situations arise where your internet access is unavailable due to any number of network issues.

As for Microsoft "Answers" well there are SOME folks on there that can actually help you solve problems, but not many. I'm pretty sure that the ones that seem to actually listen to the issue and comprehend it are US based former MS employees. You can spot the Indian help by how they post their "solutions" LOL

 

[Brooklyn567]

Windows 8 tips and information app, and similar help apps..

Though I didnt belive at first that I had any use for this app, I did find a few helpful items which has now made it worth looking at.

I hear the work intuitive alot in windows 8, but its really not, once you learn the system then it starts making sense or is that just the product of learning??

Check out the tips and info app, theres allot of basic common sense stuff, but some thing are not and are very helpful..

 

[SIW2]

No it's not intuitive. Ergonomics are very poor, too.

That is the result of MS desperation to shove metro start screen at everyone to sell their services.

It's not so bad on a tablet, perhaps, but awful on a normal non touch machine.