This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

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I have a spare PC with Windows 8 installed on it. I uninstalled Tablet PC Components and uninstalled all of those little Metro apps that came with it. I can get around in it and find everything OK. I want to run Photoshop, Power Director and other programs. I feel like I have Windows 3.1 front end on an upgraded Windows 7. The start menu is visually ugly. It doesn't take a genius to figure where everything is but it is more time consuming getting there, especially the sleep button. I agree Microsoft will have millions of complaints about the child like start menu that looks like it's designed for a kindergarten class project. On the plus side I like the spelling verifier in IE and the copy/paste/ribbon in Windows explorer. I think when Microsoft came up with this bowl of soup they were full of themselves and were thinking they were going to push PC users into a new way of running Windows. They're thinking tablet, tablet, tablet. I think that's why Windows 8 is ugly and time consuming on a desktop PC. For me, I think it's a pity that Microsoft came up with a start menu that so many people dislike when the OS is the best they've ever had. I wonder if Microsft went down this road to justify a few changes in the OS as a new release. It will be expensive.
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1
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    Self made Intel
    CPU
    I7 4770K
    Motherboard
    Z87-A
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    8 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GTX 650 Ti
Just my 2 cents:

I'm reading all these complaints about how difficult it is to find something, or how something works on Windows 8 CP. "I am an experienced Windows veteran since version XXX and I can not find this and can not do that", that seems to be a common nominator.

OK. I am an experienced Windows user, since absolute beginning of Windows. When I first saw Win 8 CP it was clear it is so different than previous versions that even experienced users might need to consult manuals and other written instructions.

I did so. And now I have absolutely no problems to navigate deeper and deeper on Win 8 CP, find what I need. The point is we should forget now the fact we are "experts" and start instead reading manuals. I know it's cool to brag that "only n00bs read manuals, I do not need them for I am a pro", but it's wrong attitude.

Control Panel cannot be found:BS! Can not hibernate: BS! Can not change this or that: BS!

Stop complaining. Read.

- Windows 8 Consumer Preview
- Windows 8 Consumer Preview Guide (pdf)

Kari

+1 :)
 

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    Windows 7 Enterprise (x64), Windows 8 Enterprise (x64), Windows Server 2012
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    100meg
So the idea of desktop operating system designs should be to have everything small and miniscule as to aim, target, and click on something?

What's wrong with ~48 x ~48 icons in the "Start Menu" and on the "Taskbar" ("Use large icons" setting)?
I concede that, for some unknown reason, the icons remain tiny in "All Programs".

The "Extra Large Icons" in Windows Explorer are ~256 x ~256 (actually larger when you include the text).

Nothing really, I use the same folder view settings for my Libraries and large icons for EVERY folder.

But the thing that gets me is that people complain about the Start Screen because they say the mouse is useless or ineffective for it. How?! It's easier to start programs or open a library or change settings without needing such precision to do so. The Start Screen to me is a Desktop version of the start menu. There are large icons on the Desktop, but no one seems to complain about that. Heck, even the Windows 7 Taskbar, which we all love, was partly designed to be touch first. Even the window controls are touch first, but no one complains about that. When faced with a new screen of icons of which can be arranged simply and easily and can be used to quickly access items, complaints roar from everywhere.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
If Microsoft gave everybody $1000 dollars to test Windows 8, I'm willing to bet that at least half of the people would be complaining that they weren't getting $2000.
I actually feel we're getting a very good deal, as I feel we're getting two operating systems for the price of one. I know a lot of people are complaining about the business usability of W8, but I cant see Microsoft leaving them behind as thats their bread and butter.
I already like it better than Windows 7, even with the odd little bug.
 

My Computer

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    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP
Start Screen.Why do I now have to scroll sideways for about 3 miles in order to find the programme or app I don't happen to have pinned to my desktop? That is fine for a tablet or mobile but nonsensical for a desktop. WHERE IS THE START BUTTON on the desktop? Oh yes, someone at MS thought it would a great step forward to remove it. Cretins.

When you mouse over to the lower left corner and the Metro desktop image displays, you can right click on that have the start menu right there. Whatever you have pinned to the Metro desktop will pop up with that right click without having to open the Metro display.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win8 Consumer Preview
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite A105-S4397
    CPU
    Intel Centrino Duo 1.73 GHz T2250 2MB L2, 533MHz FSB
    Motherboard
    Mobile Intel 945GM Express
    Memory
    4GB PC4200
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel GMA 950
    Sound Card
    On-board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.4" built-in
    Screen Resolution
    1280x800
    Hard Drives
    160GB 5400RPM Hitachi
    PSU
    15VDC@5A or 12VDC at 6600MaH Li
    Case
    Plastic
    Cooling
    Smallest fan on the planet
    Keyboard
    Querty Eng/German
    Mouse
    Yes, but I've set traps
    Internet Speed
    10M
    Other Info
    Clean install from a corrupted and virus laden Vista original factory install on this ancient laptop.

    Runs like it was at Indy!
Fair enough

Nothing really, I use the same folder view settings for my Libraries and large icons for EVERY folder.

I don't use those settings myself.

I use "Details" (in Windows Explorer) for most of my folders.
I use "Large Icons" for "Picture" folders.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
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    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
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    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
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    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
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    Tower
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    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
They don't have to give me any money to test it out. They saved an otherwise disabled laptop from a dusty closet. I am curious though what they will charge me for the finished product.

As I believe you said, it's like getting two GUI's in one package. You can configure it to work whichever way you prefer or a hybrid of both.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win8 Consumer Preview
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite A105-S4397
    CPU
    Intel Centrino Duo 1.73 GHz T2250 2MB L2, 533MHz FSB
    Motherboard
    Mobile Intel 945GM Express
    Memory
    4GB PC4200
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel GMA 950
    Sound Card
    On-board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.4" built-in
    Screen Resolution
    1280x800
    Hard Drives
    160GB 5400RPM Hitachi
    PSU
    15VDC@5A or 12VDC at 6600MaH Li
    Case
    Plastic
    Cooling
    Smallest fan on the planet
    Keyboard
    Querty Eng/German
    Mouse
    Yes, but I've set traps
    Internet Speed
    10M
    Other Info
    Clean install from a corrupted and virus laden Vista original factory install on this ancient laptop.

    Runs like it was at Indy!
This is the best I've felt about an operating system for a very long time, not that I've disliked the others, its just that they seemed like minor upgrades, this is exciting and new. I know people dont like the online store, but to me its a lot better than having to jump in a car and have to pay for packaging and transport etc.
Just like Android, the Apps should be a lot cheaper because they cant really be copied, and I like cheap.
Maybe Microsoft should build two Windows 8's one for people who like the two Gui's and one for the Windows 7 type likers, I like the Metro.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro/Windows 8 Pro/Windows 7 64 Bit64Bit/Windows XP
Got the fingerprint scanner working. It needed .NET Framework 3.5 to run the drivers. I don't know much about that program except that many other programs require it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win8 Consumer Preview
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite A105-S4397
    CPU
    Intel Centrino Duo 1.73 GHz T2250 2MB L2, 533MHz FSB
    Motherboard
    Mobile Intel 945GM Express
    Memory
    4GB PC4200
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel GMA 950
    Sound Card
    On-board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.4" built-in
    Screen Resolution
    1280x800
    Hard Drives
    160GB 5400RPM Hitachi
    PSU
    15VDC@5A or 12VDC at 6600MaH Li
    Case
    Plastic
    Cooling
    Smallest fan on the planet
    Keyboard
    Querty Eng/German
    Mouse
    Yes, but I've set traps
    Internet Speed
    10M
    Other Info
    Clean install from a corrupted and virus laden Vista original factory install on this ancient laptop.

    Runs like it was at Indy!
Coke, what you and a bunch of Metro lovers don't seem to get is that not everyone uses Windows the same. I know you think you know this, but you and others can't fully grasp that people don't always see it your way. For example, you write:

When faced with a new screen of icons of which can be arranged simply and easily and can be used to quickly access items, complaints roar from everywhere.


That's great you think that, but I don't subscribe to anything you put down right there. I see Metro like this:

1.) A screen full of crap in my way.

2.) Said crap cannot be arranged like I want them to be. I have to arrange them how MS allows me to and I'm not a fan of that. I don't like big boxy tiles. Sorry, just don't. MS is embracing a concept it spent 20 years fleeing? I'm sure it will be easy to change the icons in the tiles, but I doubt it will be as easy to finagle the tiles completely or get rid of them, or order your icons in ways other than cascading rows, etc.

When I turn on my computer I don't want a full-sized start screen in my face. I like virtually nothing on my screen. That's why I like the start button, because it's compact and piles all the junk I use out of the way. That's why I like the task bar because it has my most frequently used programs pinned about as out of the way as you can get. I like stuff tidy. Why? So I can see my wallpaper
photo. Why? So my machine doesn't scream at me - YOU ARE USING TECHNOLOGY! As much as I love it, I don't need to be reminded of it every nanosecond. I like to be in full control of the tools I use, not the other way around.

But the thing that gets me is that people complain about the Start Screen because they say the mouse is useless or ineffective for it. How?!

Who is saying this? Maybe people are, I have no clue. My chief complaints with the mouse in Metro:

1.) Horizontal scrolling. That's so counter-intuitive on a desktop. It really is. People have been using the up/down middle mouse scroll wheel forever because it works, because people read more efficiently when the top-to-bottom ratio is larger than the left-to-right one. It's been like that since human beings started reading and writing. I hate having to scroll horizontally with a mouse setup. On the phone or tablet it's fine. Why? The reason is practical - the screens are tiny. Scrolling L-R on a desktop? Total PITA. I don't want the width to go past my monitor. If I did, I'd get two monitors. Some people use two monitors, some people actually need more than one. That's awesome. Most people use one. I know you don't have to scroll horizontally a lot in Metro, but it's enough to be annoying as hell.

2.) The Start Menu packs as much information as Metro does, in a fraction of the space. I like that I don't have to roll my freaking mouse all over the screen to get stuff from the Start Menu. Maybe you and others don't prefer that method. But guess what? We're not alike. No, the Start Menu doesn't have live tiles. Whoopdy *bleeping* do.

There is significant blowback against this 8 OS - heck, look at this site. This very thread has about twice as many replies and as many total views as the thread that announced the release of the 8 CP! I'm not saying 8 will be a flop. It may not be. All I'm saying is that a significant number of people are not happy with it, and the reasons are as valid as yours.



 

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    Black Label 7x64
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    AMD Phenom II X6 1055t
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    GA-890FXA-UD5
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    Acer AJ15
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    Barracuda 7200 SATA 280GB
    WD Caviar Green SATA 500GB
    PSU
    OCZ ModXStream 700W
    Internet Speed
    25 Mbps/25 Mbps
Coke, what you and a bunch of Metro lovers don't seem to get is that not everyone uses Windows the same. I know you think you know this, but you and others can't fully grasp that people don't always see it your way. For example, you write:

When faced with a new screen of icons of which can be arranged simply and easily and can be used to quickly access items, complaints roar from everywhere.


That's great you think that, but I don't subscribe to anything you put down right there. I see Metro like this:

1.) A screen full of crap in my way.

2.) Said crap cannot be arranged like I want them to be. I have to arrange them how MS allows me to and I'm not a fan of that. I don't like big boxy tiles. Sorry, just don't. MS is embracing a concept it spent 20 years fleeing? I'm sure it will be easy to change the icons in the tiles, but I doubt it will be as easy to finagle the tiles completely or get rid of them, or order your icons in ways other than cascading rows, etc.

When I turn on my computer I don't want a full-sized start screen in my face. I like virtually nothing on my screen. That's why I like the start button, because it's compact and piles all the junk I use out of the way. That's why I like the task bar because it has my most frequently used programs pinned about as out of the way as you can get. I like stuff tidy. Why? So I can see my wallpaper
photo. Why? So my machine doesn't scream at me - YOU ARE USING TECHNOLOGY! As much as I love it, I don't need to be reminded of it every nanosecond. I like to be in full control of the tools I use, not the other way around.

But the thing that gets me is that people complain about the Start Screen because they say the mouse is useless or ineffective for it. How?!

Who is saying this? Maybe people are, I have no clue. My chief complaints with the mouse in Metro:

1.) Horizontal scrolling. That's so counter-intuitive on a desktop. It really is. People have been using the up/down middle mouse scroll wheel forever because it works, because people read more efficiently when the top-to-bottom ratio is larger than the left-to-right one. It's been like that since human beings started reading and writing. I hate having to scroll horizontally with a mouse setup. On the phone or tablet it's fine. Why? The reason is practical - the screens are tiny. Scrolling L-R on a desktop? Total PITA. I don't want the width to go past my monitor. If I did, I'd get two monitors. Some people use two monitors, some people actually need more than one. That's awesome. Most people use one. I know you don't have to scroll horizontally a lot in Metro, but it's enough to be annoying as hell.

2.) The Start Menu packs as much information as Metro does, in a fraction of the space. I like that I don't have to roll my freaking mouse all over the screen to get stuff from the Start Menu. Maybe you and others don't prefer that method. But guess what? We're not alike. No, the Start Menu doesn't have live tiles. Whoopdy *bleeping* do.

There is significant blowback against this 8 OS - heck, look at this site. This very thread has about twice as many replies and as many total views as the thread that announced the release of the 8 CP! I'm not saying 8 will be a flop. It may not be. All I'm saying is that a significant number of people are not happy with it, and the reasons are as valid as yours.



I realize people don't use Windows the same way, but people need to actually know HOW to use Windows to know how to use Windows their own way. Like, the Start Menu should be used to have your MFU programs and a neat list of non-frequently used programs in the All Programs list, not folder upon folder upon folder of a mess. There is a reason why Microsoft decided on a Start Screen so people can ACTUALLY get rid of their crap, and not let it bloat up one way or another. As for tiles not being arranged the way you want them to, you don't want them organized in groups that go left or right? This part I don't get fully.

People, notably "power users", have been saying that the mouse and keyboard are useless and ineffective on the Start Screen because it somehow gives a notion that having a mouse, that is precise and accurate, on software that doesn't really require precision makes it useless and touch first only.

People have been scrolling up and down because that's how it's always been. And people really don't read up and down, they read left to right or right to left depending on the language. The only reason why text ever went up to down is because there wasn't any room left so the logical thing to do was to shift the text a line under. Then, the GUI made up and down scrolling. To me, there really isn't a difficulty, scrolling is scrolling. It's a panorama. I don't have difficulty with it, but that's just me.

Well, this site is mostly composed of power users, people that go for practicality and power versus design and adaptation. Many on this site wouldn't care for eye candy of Aero design, some might have disabled that. There are some that even make Windows 7 look like elder versions of Windows. There are some that have command prompt pinned on their start menu or Start Screen. There are some that even tweak Windows' settings as to gain more performance. If left to the devices of said power users, we'd still be using the classic design of Windows that Microsoft gladly left a good decade ago I'd bet.

Then there are the rest of the Windows users, people that enjoy a pleasing, visual experience that works, that is smooth, and is easy to use and easy to work with. Take a look at this thread and you'll see people that just don't like Windows 8 because of reasons that they don't want Start Screen in their face or the Desktop already does all that. Then, take a look at some other threads and you'll see people posting their customized Start Screens and speaking of the best parts of it, notably Start Screen. Windows brings in a whole plethora of different users. And it seems a vast majority of the Windows crowd would fare well with Windows 8 based off personal experience. The rest might not because they don't want to see radical change. But then again, people are different.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
@ Colonel Travis

"There is significant blowback against this 8 OS - heck, look at this site. This very thread has about twice as many replies and as many total views as the thread that announced the release of the 8 CP! I'm not saying 8 will be a flop. It may not be. All I'm saying is that a significant number of people are not happy with it, and the reasons are as valid as yours"

I was at a very well known Windows website yesterday, the conversation was about Windows 8 and Metro. There was one guy on there battling for about two hours or more against a lot of Metro likers, he was outnumbered by at least 10 to 1. These people were all Developers and Programmers and such. Every now and then someone would join him against the hordes, but for ever one of the haters more lovers piled on, it was fascinating to watch and I was amazed at the numbers of developers who have no problem with Metro and Windows 8.

There were also a lot of users, and they were also mainly in the liking camp. From what I've observed just about everywhere, its mainly the business community that seems to be having problems with it. The problem the way they see it is that office workers will not be able to learn this new way of doing things. They dont seem to give their staff much credit I believe, and I think thats wrong. I believe that with a minimum of fuss and just a short memo to staff, they will catch on just as quick as anybody else.

The other thing is, if you leave your computer in sleep mode, you can just log straight back onto the desktop, and in much quicker time than Windows 7.

I dont know if Windows 8 is going to be a success, but judging from what I've seen so far, I doubt it will be a flop.

 

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@ Colonel Travis

There were also a lot of users, and they were also mainly in the liking camp. From what I've observed just about everywhere, its mainly the business community that seems to be having problems with it. The problem the way they see it is that office workers will not be able to learn this new way of doing things. They dont seem to give their staff much credit I believe, and I think thats wrong. I believe that with a minimum of fuss and just a short memo to staff, they will catch on just as quick as anybody else.

With all due respect, I would imagine you've never worked in IT, or had anything to do with large scale deployments of new operating systems or applications. Believe me, it doesn't matter how carefully you plan or how much training is given, a lot of users just will not 'get it'. With windows 8 we're talking a complete paradigm shift, so don't expect any but the most brave (or the most stupid) to start deploying Windows 8 any time soon.
 

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    Benq
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    Thermalright
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    Logitech
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    Logitech
    Internet Speed
    50/50
    Browser
    firefox
@ Colonel Travis

There were also a lot of users, and they were also mainly in the liking camp. From what I've observed just about everywhere, its mainly the business community that seems to be having problems with it. The problem the way they see it is that office workers will not be able to learn this new way of doing things. They dont seem to give their staff much credit I believe, and I think thats wrong. I believe that with a minimum of fuss and just a short memo to staff, they will catch on just as quick as anybody else.

With all due respect, I would imagine you've never worked in IT, or had anything to do with large scale deployments of new operating systems or applications. Believe me, it doesn't matter how carefully you plan or how much training is given, a lot of users just will not 'get it'. With windows 8 we're talking a complete paradigm shift, so don't expect any but the most brave (or the most stupid) to start deploying Windows 8 any time soon.


Here, here!

With a couple of decades of Enterprise level experience I shudder at the thought.

I personally like and use it but deploying it to more than 5000 users would be suicidal
 

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    laptop
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    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    300gig internal and a bunch ext
    Cooling
    not much
    Keyboard
    Built-in
    Mouse
    Logitch Anywhere Mx wireless mouse
    Internet Speed
    50 down 1.5 up
I agree I dont have any skills in IT or large scale deployment of operating systems, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft knows a bit about it and wont want to lose too much market share in that area.
Maybe this is a real dumb move by Microsoft and they "just dont get it", but I'm sure they looked at this long and hard and have a plan for deployment for business, if not they might be in for a rough ride.
One thing I do know, is that by the sound of it, businesses havent even upgraded to Windows 7 and are reluctant to do so, if that's the case, and its so tuff, maybe this change wont be so bad, considering its going to be hard anyway.
 

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How real people will use Windows 8

[video=youtube;v4boTbv9_nU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v4boTbv9_nU[/video]
 

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    HD7860
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    Xonar Essence STX
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    Benq
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    1920x1080
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    Various
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    Thermalright
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    Logitech
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    50/50
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Thats one funny video, I'm not really into tech, how did you video yourself, and manage to upload it when you obviously had a very hard time with Windows 8, you must have caught on pretty quickly after all.
 

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Haha that video is teh win. "They tryin' to drive me to MAC?"

In seriousness though, that is a perfect sample representation of how it is going to be for a large percentage of folks.
 

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