MS puts a hard block on MSE because it is incompatible with Win8 CP.

Got this Windows update yesterday.

KB2685194 - Application Compatibility release for Windows 8 Consumer Preview

This update introduces a hard block on Microsoft Security Essentials. A hard block prevents an application that is incompatible with Windows 8 Consumer Preview from running on the computer. This hard block is being introduced because Microsoft Security Essentials is incompatible with Windows 8 Consumer Preview.

 

[Dave76]

Glad to hear it helped.

 

[glennc]

They're the same glenn.

That is good news. I wish I knew of a way to re-enable W8's WD, since it turned itself off when I installed NIS. But if W7 is the same, I dump those block updates and install W7's MSE and I'll be good to go! Great news
Glenn

I just installed NIS and it didn't disable WD, it only disabled the Windows firewall. You should check the Windows Defender service status:

Select Winkey+R and type services.msc
find the two Windows Defender Services - Windows Defender Network Inspection Service and Windows Defender Service
make sure neither are disabled and make sure Windows Defender Service is started

With regard to Windows 7 MSE, Microsoft issueda patch to block it's installation on Windows 8 for a reason,. If you want to use MSE/WD, the I'd suggest getting WD working. A lot of security related processes have changed in Windows 8, so using something that been declared is not the wisest thing to do.

Hello Calico,
According to Action Center > Security it turned the W8 Windows Defender off! Now in Services.msc the two services you mentioned are not running and are set to manual. I agree that I was just attempting a cobbled work around, but until now, I had no hope of getting the installed WD working.
Okay as I am typing. In services.msc set Windows Defender Network Services to start and it showed running. When I then started the Windows Defender Services it began to change and then I go an error box which stated that the service started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs. And it did not start. I stopped the WDNS and started the WDefender services and they started. I then restarted the WDNS and it started and without warning the "running" disappeared from the WDefender Service?????? I tried the same sequence as I am typing this email and it did not repeat, so I am rebooting and will try again. Oop getting a Preparing for automatic Repair boot screen...... Diagnosing your PC ......... and a Windows Couldn't load correctly System Restore can restore you system to an earlier point, etc:! Ratz. Well the bear got me and I will return once this bear is got! Fingers crossed!
Glenn

 

[glennc]

That is good news. I wish I knew of a way to re-enable W8's WD, since it turned itself off when I installed NIS. But if W7 is the same, I dump those block updates and install W7's MSE and I'll be good to go! Great news
Glenn

I just installed NIS and it didn't disable WD, it only disabled the Windows firewall. You should check the Windows Defender service status:

Select Winkey+R and type services.msc
find the two Windows Defender Services - Windows Defender Network Inspection Service and Windows Defender Service
make sure neither are disabled and make sure Windows Defender Service is started

With regard to Windows 7 MSE, Microsoft issueda patch to block it's installation on Windows 8 for a reason,. If you want to use MSE/WD, the I'd suggest getting WD working. A lot of security related processes have changed in Windows 8, so using something that been declared is not the wisest thing to do.

Hello Calico,
According to Action Center > Security it turned the W8 Windows Defender off! Now in Services.msc the two services you mentioned are not running and are set to manual. I agree that I was just attempting a cobbled work around, but until now, I had no hope of getting the installed WD working.
Okay as I am typing. In services.msc set Windows Defender Network Services to start and it showed running. When I then started the Windows Defender Services it began to change and then I go an error box which stated that the service started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs. And it did not start. I stopped the WDNS and started the WDefender services and they started. I then restarted the WDNS and it started and without warning the "running" disappeared from the WDefender Service?????? I tried the same sequence as I am typing this email and it did not repeat, so I am rebooting and will try again. Oop getting a Preparing for automatic Repair boot screen...... Diagnosing your PC ......... and a Windows Couldn't load correctly System Restore can restore you system to an earlier point, etc:! Ratz. Well the bear got me and I will return once this bear is got! Fingers crossed!
Glenn

Well we will see how well Macrium System Image Restore works, first time I've had to use it. Booting now and I will return..
Glenn

 

[glennc]

You won't be seeing the WD disabled to start with but simply replaced by the version of WD included in the Security Essentials. I think this is where everyone is getting a little confused.

The version of SE now seen included with the CP would normally be a newer version of same as seen as a separate item for 7. Since the CP is the beta form of 8 MS simply tossed the SE in so you could run it without worry about which av program would be needed or run on it but have protection already inplace.

Gee do you think they were being thoughtful or simply not wanting to hear how the CP would be seen as... from complaints when and if someone got stiffed with a malware from running it without anything installed?

Howdy,
I am not sure exactly what you mean. But if I can get W8 windows defender to work as standalone manual scan, that seems to be the best choice. Unfortunately things are not beginning well, double checking my restore system image as W8 crashed on my preliminary attempts.
Glenn

 

[Calico]

...Hello Calico,
According to Action Center > Security it turned the W8 Windows Defender off! Now in Services.msc the two services you mentioned are not running and are set to manual. I agree that I was just attempting a cobbled work around, but until now, I had no hope of getting the installed WD working.
Okay as I am typing. In services.msc set Windows Defender Network Services to start and it showed running. When I then started the Windows Defender Services it began to change and then I go an error box which stated that the service started and then stopped. Some services stop automatically if they are not in use by other services or programs. And it did not start. I stopped the WDNS and started the WDefender services and they started. I then restarted the WDNS and it started and without warning the "running" disappeared from the WDefender Service?????? I tried the same sequence as I am typing this email and it did not repeat, so I am rebooting and will try again. Oop getting a Preparing for automatic Repair boot screen...... Diagnosing your PC ......... and a Windows Couldn't load correctly System Restore can restore you system to an earlier point, etc:! Ratz. Well the bear got me and I will return once this bear is got! Fingers crossed!
Glenn

I think the problems you're encountering, as I said i the other thread, are simply a consequence of running a beta application on a beta Operating System. When I installed NIS (twice) it didn't disable Windows Defender, yet it did for you. If you really want to run beta versions, of third-party security applications, at this stage, you've got to expect the unexpected.

 

[glennc]

I think the problems you're encountering, as I said i the other thread, are simply a consequence of running a beta application on a beta Operating System. When I installed NIS (twice) it didn't disable Windows Defender, yet it did for you. If you really want to run beta versions, of third-party security applications, at this stage, you've got to expect the unexpected.

Yep, I do believe you are right! Thanks for replying!!
Glenn

 

[Night Hawk]

You won't be seeing the WD disabled to start with but simply replaced by the version of WD included in the Security Essentials. I think this is where everyone is getting a little confused.

The version of SE now seen included with the CP would normally be a newer version of same as seen as a separate item for 7. Since the CP is the beta form of 8 MS simply tossed the SE in so you could run it without worry about which av program would be needed or run on it but have protection already inplace.

Gee do you think they were being thoughtful or simply not wanting to hear how the CP would be seen as... from complaints when and if someone got stiffed with a malware from running it without anything installed?

WD in Windows 8 is similar, in that it shares a common interface and AV/AM engine with MSE, but it is also tied-in with the other Windows 8 specific security features, such as secure boot/UEFI. This is not simply MSE bundled with Windows 8.

When first mentioning about 8 apparently seeing the SE included I also referred to any new security/antimalware protections 8 would be seeing.

As far WD that's included in the SE as part of the overall program. MS simply built up the SE around WD from the start there in order to offer a more complete av program. They obviously were following suit as to what other software companies are doing with their av programs of bundling layers like antirootkit, antispyware, antiadware protections in along with the av protection.

(Apparently they realized the WD by itself doesn't offer much to begin with)

 

[glennc]

You won't be seeing the WD disabled to start with but simply replaced by the version of WD included in the Security Essentials. I think this is where everyone is getting a little confused.

The version of SE now seen included with the CP would normally be a newer version of same as seen as a separate item for 7. Since the CP is the beta form of 8 MS simply tossed the SE in so you could run it without worry about which av program would be needed or run on it but have protection already inplace.

Gee do you think they were being thoughtful or simply not wanting to hear how the CP would be seen as... from complaints when and if someone got stiffed with a malware from running it without anything installed?

WD in Windows 8 is similar, in that it shares a common interface and AV/AM engine with MSE, but it is also tied-in with the other Windows 8 specific security features, such as secure boot/UEFI. This is not simply MSE bundled with Windows 8.

When first mentioning about 8 apparently seeing the SE included I also referred to any new security/antimalware protections 8 would be seeing.

As far WD that's included in the SE as part of the overall program. MS simply built up the SE around WD from the start there in order to offer a more complete av program. They obviously were following suit as to what other software companies are doing with their av programs of bundling layers like antirootkit, antispyware, antiadware protections in along with the av protection.

(Apparently they realized the WD by itself doesn't offer much to begin with)

Well I am using a now considered incompatible NIS, so I guess whatever I get. Like to use the new WD, but other issues first!
Glenn and thanks

 

[Calico]

Well I am using a now considered incompatible NIS, so I guess whatever I get. Like to use the new WD, but other issues first!
Glenn and thanks

It's not that NIS is incompatible, it's just like all the other third-party security applications, it's still in beta. I don't expect we'll see any 'finished' applications of this type, until well after RTM.

 

[Night Hawk]

From what I initially saw with the DP not CP the av used here went right on. Sometimes it will take repeat attempts to get something to go on but it will. Perhaps why many apps will end up seeing the incompatible due to stubborn installation issues while still being able to work well.

But what everyone has now is still "beta"! And as you know all betas have their own bugs to work out!

 

[GMan]

From what I initially saw with the DP not CP the av used here went right on. Sometimes it will take repeat attempts to get something to go on but it will. Perhaps why many apps will end up seeing the incompatible due to stubborn installation issues while still being able to work well.

But what everyone has now is still "beta"! And as you know all betas have their own bugs to work out!

True, true. All these problems all over with all these 3rd party fails - that is the reason MS made Defender much better for 8 beta.

They've learned their lessons the hard way with 7 beta and all the complaints that made it look like the 7 beta was bad, when it was not.

End result for 7: "Why my pc crash and do this or that? MS stinks." MS reply: "No it is your 3rd party security."

End result for 8: "My pc does not crash because I use the Windows Defender as my antivirus."

 

[Night Hawk]

Ms had to make improvements with the Defender no doubt there! When that first came out it couldn't even find a tracking cookie let alone any trojan dropper!

Something new certainly flagged a bad file still hanging around on a storage drive. And the only previous time I saw any protection spring to life when not even clicking on a file but simply opening up the folder it was in is the av program used here. That shows improvement in the malicious code detection or even if it had been a false positive a better detection process.

 

[glennc]

Ms had to make improvements with the Defender no doubt there! When that first came out it couldn't even find a tracking cookie let alone any trojan dropper!

Something new certainly flagged a bad file still hanging around on a storage drive. And the only previous time I saw any protection spring to life when not even clicking on a file but simply opening up the folder it was in is the av program used here. That shows improvement in the malicious code detection or even if it had been a false positive a better detection process.

Hello,
Just an update on those who might have been following the posts on getting W8's WD to run stand alone with real protection off. After a catastrophic failure that the Macrium System Restore Image couldn't cure, I am finally reinstalled. To my surprise, when I installed NIS this time it did turn of windows firewall and windows defender.
It had previously caused both states to occurr on seperate occasions. I may still attempt to get WD running, but I am now concerned about my fail-safe system image restore being fail-safe!!!
L8tr
Glenn

 

[Night Hawk]

The one thing I will say about Macruim is good luck! I gave that one a look back in 2009 for 7 and had then made an image backup of the Vista installation while still on at the time when drives were being added in, switched around, etc. during the changeover from beta to RC and so forth.

Once the drive letter changed for the drive the image was stored on the image became USELESS! All it kept saying was invalid. For the MS backup feature or Acronis(free version from drive manufacturer or retail Disk Director suite) on the other hand the drives can be swapped around as well as backups actually copied over to another drive and will still be available to restore the OS drive!

I still have to give the backup feature in 8 a go but may end up again waiting for the RC release over the beta to evaluate the reliability factor. No beta bugs there!

 

[glennc]

The one thing I will say about Macruim is good luck! I gave that one a look back in 2009 for 7 and had then made an image backup of the Vista installation while still on at the time when drives were being added in, switched around, etc. during the changeover from beta to RC and so forth.

Once the drive letter changed for the drive the image was stored on the image became USELESS! All it kept saying was invalid. For the MS backup feature or Acronis(free version from drive manufacturer or retail Disk Director suite) on the other hand the drives can be swapped around as well as backups actually copied over to another drive and will still be available to restore the OS drive!

I still have to give the backup feature in 8 a go but may end up again waiting for the RC release over the beta to evaluate the reliability factor. No beta bugs there!

Funny story, for some reason I never got figured up, my W7 machine keeps swapping the drive letters in image software. So Windows 7 backup did the same thing when the drives changed, couldn't restore. In Macrium you can pick which drive to image and where to put it, so I just got used to it and Paragon. Never had a problem with it in W7, and in the beginning of using W7, I did a lot of system image restores. Windows restores and repairs never worked correctly for me. So I came to rely on knowing I can absolutely get back to a workable full system. I also used the W8 called Windows 7 backup in the control panel and it too failed. Glad I am only playing on W8. But with all the changes to the Metro page and the other stuff, it took a full day to get everything reinstalled. I found out that using the Windows 7 Restore in W8 kills off the History backup scheme. Or should I say it did this install..... Some days the bear gets you!
Glenn

 

[Calico]

I've been using Macrium free for a long time and I re-image my test systems, sometimes, several times a day and I've never had any issues with it, which is more than can be said for some other well known imaging utilities. Although I've used it a number of times with Windows 8, I haven't been rigorous with the testing, however it is supposed to be fully compatible - Release Notes

 

[glennc]

I've been using Macrium free for a long time and I re-image my test systems, sometimes, several times a day and I've never had any issues with it, which is more than can be said for some other well known imaging utilities. Although I've used it a number of times with Windows 8, I haven't been rigorous with the testing, however it is supposed to be fully compatible - Release Notes

Howdy Calico,
Glad to get a positive reply about it. I have relied on it for many years. But again especially with a test operating system, I could break a boulder with my innate talents
Glenn

 

[Night Hawk]

That's the "beta bugs" for you! As for the Backup & Restore feature in 7 besides being what is already available for use with the 8 CP still being a beta the 7 backup feature was extensively looked over and found reliable. That's one thing MS got right from the start with 7!

The flexibility there as well as the paid for programs like Acronis is being to browse while booted live from disk to select an image found on any drive as long as the image itself is intact. I suspect once 8 is retail the backup features should work just as well if not something new but simply renamed for 8.

The advantages as well as some disadvantages however were revealed as well.

Disadvantage: If you inadvertently restore an image to a second drive made with the Windows option and decided to add a new boot entry in for it on the host drive in order to keep a second already restored Windows available don't bother! Instead be prepared to restore the host drive afterwards since it will no longer boot into the Windows install there!

For the CP I won't even worred about backing it up at this point since I was about to see another clean install. Only this time the existing partitions will be removed entirely rather then the fast reformat initially seen to see how well the 8 drive tools will work as well as whether or not the 100mb system reserved partition for BCD store, boot files is being seen with 8.

I simply tossed the CP on after cleaning off the DP! and didn't nuke the drive fully as usual. But betas get nuked faster anyways!