What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC

Many PC OEMs are dissatisfied with what Microsoft has done with Windows 8 and the way the company has handled the negative response to the operating system. Privately, one OEM source told me that Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry, while another claimed that Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."

What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC | ZDNet

 

[Ray8]

.... The MPI takes away functionality that has been with us now for a very long time and not provided any benefits in return.... Those millions have tried the MPI and dislike it and thus choose third party programs to give them back the functionality that they want. It's quite bizarre that those who do not like the MPI are always labelled Luddites or the like.

I do lots of detail work, spreadsheets, word processing, graphics and pdf field work. My experience is zero reduction in functionality. The benefits are based on preference.
A free start menu (or 5 bucks) should be of no consequence unless one has to buy 10,000 start menus ...
Otherwise, the MPI is not unusable... Do you really believe that? Or just annoying... I wouldn't label users of the traditional start menu in that way except as a joke. Just as users of the start screen are reduced to the status of children.

It is unusable for me, as it is unusable for millions of others. The reasons for that irrelevant, Microsoft has taken away what millions like and want. All because someone relied on dubious statistics.

 

[mdmd]

... This is them forcing us to do so, and its not because its that much better, its not because it gives us loads of new functionality (in fact, the new interface is regression technology as it pertains to the desktop, but progression for media consumption), its because they want to push us into The Mobile Interface and a system whereby they get a 30% cut of sales...

What are you carrying on about with this forcing > forcing > forcing to get sales ?
Haven't you heard of UNPIN or UNINSTALL?



Describing the MPI as regression technology ? Really? "As pertains to the desktop" ... You can still plug your buttons, toolbars, icons, shortcuts, dock launchers, and gadgets (these are all new, right?).

So why hack on the new stuff? You still have your keyboard and mouse. Everyone is not a slave to the desktop.
Oh, I know, it interferes...

 

[mdmd]

It is unusable for me, as it is unusable for millions of others. The reasons for that irrelevant, Microsoft has taken away what millions like and want. All because someone relied on dubious statistics.

It may have been one factor in the decision process, but the other point is valid about app sales. I just don't get this forcing stuff. One can unpin everything and use a free start menu or toolbar. I get it. Millions don't like it. The flip side is millions are using it.

 

[Ray8]

The issue is that you have to use third party programs to get back what was an integral part of Windows. That is what is patently stupid, not that you can't, but that Microsoft has taken away that basic option. What is so difficult to understand?

 

[mdmd]

The issue is that you have to use third party programs to get back what was an integral part of Windows. That is what is patently stupid, not that you can't, but that Microsoft has taken away that basic option. What is so difficult to understand?

Obviously, the suits at Microsoft disagree with the point of view that taking away the traditional desktop start menu was patently stupid. I have always thought it was curious that all of a sudden, all these providers, decided in unison that a start menu would be for sale at 5 bucks? A conspiracy? Was this a heads up by Microsoft to the developer culture? All these new products for 5 bucks?

From reports, they do scoff at the derision. It would seem they believe the MPI is adequate.

 

[chrisa]

... This is them forcing us to do so, and its not because its that much better, its not because it gives us loads of new functionality (in fact, the new interface is regression technology as it pertains to the desktop, but progression for media consumption), its because they want to push us into The Mobile Interface and a system whereby they get a 30% cut of sales...

What are you carrying on about with this forcing > forcing > forcing to get sales ?

By moving people into The Mobile Interface, the apps they want people to buy instead of desktop applications means that Microsoft gets a 30% cut of the sales. On desktop programs, they get nothing. I'm surprised you're ignorant of this.

Describing the MPI as regression technology ? Really? "As pertains to the desktop" ... You can still plug your buttons, toolbars, icons, shortcuts, dock launchers, and gadgets (these are all new, right?).

Using apps and The Mobile Interface instead of desktop applications is REGRESSION technology in its current form. I mean, it doesn't surprise me at all that you probably don't see a loss in functionality between using apps and desktop applications. Those of us who use our computer to its fullest, do. Its a rare case when I don't have multiple windows open and jockeying information back and forth between them. And no, I do not have to alt-tab or swipe between them like you would have to on The Mobile Interface.

 

[turbofish]

With all of the talk about how Microsoft aimed windows 8 with a touch screen in mind, how do you explain windows 2012 with the same modern UI/metro? To have that broken interface in a consumer OS is one thing but to put that in a server OS was the worst mistake

 

[mdmd]

By moving people into The Mobile Interface, the apps they want people to buy instead of desktop applications means that Microsoft gets a 30% cut of the sales. On desktop programs, they get nothing. I'm surprised you're ignorant of this.

Don't include me in their planning strategies. As my screenshot demonstrates, one does not need to buy a metro app. A personal reference is not helpful. Microsoft has a right to make a profit. This is not socialism. If their products are inadequate, the suits will make an adjustment to their strategy. The stock holders will have a say and so will the consumer. Microsoft will respond to complaints.
I am not in the anti cloud camp nor am I in the anti subscription camp.

Using apps and The Mobile Interface instead of desktop applications is REGRESSION technology in its current form.

That's an opinion that I do not share.

I mean, it doesn't surprise me at all that you probably don't see a loss in functionality between using apps and desktop applications. Those of us who use our computer to its fullest, do. Its a rare case when I don't have multiple windows open and jockeying information back and forth between them. And no, I do not have to alt-tab or swipe between them like you would have to on The Mobile Interface.

This is another argument I have heard before. There are some workstation types that think they are superior and what they do is superior. They tout that they are serious producers and that their work ethic is too lofty to be compared to social media types. It's almost desktop snobbery. Like your forum ID states, one can use Windows 7 on the desktop. I disagree with the characterization of the MPI as a jarring experience.

 

[mdmd]

With all of the talk about how Microsoft aimed windows 8 with a touch screen in mind, how do you explain windows 2012 with the same modern UI/metro? To have that broken interface in a consumer OS is one thing but to put that in a server OS was the worst mistake

It is easily explainable. The interface, as you call it, is not broken. That is your point of view. The other is, the metro in Windows Server 2012 is blatantly vacant. It has no appealing colorful tiles or games.
It is a purely functional UI based on WinRT.

 

[turbofish]

Actually, it is broken. I have been using it for 18 months and there is still no way of locating some major applications like visual studio by searching for 'visual studio'. Plus, have you tried to use 'metro' in a server? It is very difficult to find the charms unless you are full screen and do you know of anyone using a server where they are actually sitting at a 'real' computer? It's just not done, you access everything remotely

 

[mdmd]

Actually, it is broken. I have been using it for 18 months and there is still no way of locating some major applications like visual studio by searching for 'visual studio'. Plus, have you tried to use 'metro' in a server? It is very difficult to find the charms unless you are full screen and do you know of anyone using a server where they are actually sitting at a 'real' computer? It's just not done, you access everything remotely

Because you cannot find an application unless it is listed in all apps. Have you looked in all apps? Unless it is a type of installation that does not install properly or independently of how the start menu tree is designed. Try looking in all apps. Or try using file explorer and pin what is needed to where you need it.

Broken is a descriptive term that suggests the Operating System does not function properly.
Yes I have used the metro in server. How is it difficult to find charms?
If that is an issue, there are alternatives to the charms function.

The definition of a "real" computer is another canard.
A real computer is anything and everything from a phone to a mainframe.

 

[turbofish]

Yes, it was installed correctly but it won't show up in the apps nor could it be searched by using the name. I have done this about 15 times with the same result. Why? I installed SQL 2012 and then VS so I have to search for SQL data tools in order to open up Microsoft's own programming tool. Same thing will happen after I install Microsoft Office and want to program some VBA. There isn't an executable called Visual Studio because it is a shell. Mind you a very expensive shell. If you are a developer, you have to decide if you will be a SQL developer or a VS developer when setting up the system.

 

[turbofish]

It is difficult to find the charms when working with RDP or an other form of remote connection unless you are full screen. I have a lot of servers that I take care of at the same time and need to see several servers opened at the same time so I and most people in IT rarely open up a server full screen.

 

[mdmd]

Interesting work turbofish. Well done. Server activities are best carried out in Win32 for now. There is still plenty of screen real estate to deposit icons on the desktop with the option to hide them.
Also, the taskbar is a very useful work tool. (as one is quite aware - thanks)

Servers are typically not used as workstations and do not usually have a great need for frivolous activities.
There are a few around here that like to use Server as a workstation, I cannot speak for them.

The existence of metro in Server is more for high end visibility live tiles and other compatible links.
There is some utility to Operating Systems using WinRT in Windows Server 2012,
but that is beyond the scope of this forum or thread.

Your skills are in demand and I wish you the best of luck with them .

 

[Lee]

To all Pro Microsoft Windows 8 users; why do you continue to feed the windows 8 haters. You are playing right into their hands. You are stroking their ego. Yes, you are doing exactly what they you want to do. You might be surprise what would happen if you stopped playing their game.

No one is forcing anyone to use Windows 8, "No One." No one is forcing them to buy Modern Apps from the Windows Store. No one is forcing them to use the Start Screen (it can be disabled).

Unless you really enjoy playing their game then continue on with your need to defend Windows 8.

 

[Coke Robot]

And there's also the fact that fewer and fewer people were using the start menu versus using the Windows 7 Taskbar and jumplists.

So thinks Microsoft, but not the makers of Classic Shell, Start8 etc and the millions of people downloading and using the start button replacement.

So thinks a minority of Windows 8 users....

 

[turbofish]

Frivolous activities? I'm a DBA and these are the tools that I must install on the server in order to work! And no, I'm not a Windows 8 hater. Again, I have been running windows 8 since the early beta on my laptop since it first came available and have run all versions until it went gold. There are some great features [love Hyper-V and miss it when I have to use work VM] but it doesn't take in consideration people who really have to work with a PC and not a tablet into consideration. Metro is a total joke. I have 8 'pages' of icons all thrown in together. I have SQL icons next to Office icons with a other applications thrown in without any real logic. For those who have a lot of applications installed, it makes it unusable. How many times will I ever need GUID generator [office 2013] and why is it next to my Mozila icon? Of course if I had a start button, everything would be accessible in a Just how is this making using a PC easier? Why have they done away with the tree-structure system of finding applications that they have had since DOS 2.0?

 

[mdmd]

To all Pro Microsoft Windows 8 users; why do you continue to feed the windows 8 haters. You are playing right into their hands. You are stroking their ego. Yes, you are doing exactly what they you want to do. You might be surprise what would happen if you stopped playing their game.

No one is forcing anyone to use Windows 8, "No One." No one is forcing them to buy Modern Apps from the Windows Store. No one is forcing them to use the Start Screen (it can be disabled).

Unless you really enjoy playing their game then continue on with your need to defend Windows 8.

Not sure who you are referring to, but to me, it is like badminton, volleyball or some other sport.
As for stroking egos, my point of view is that my status is equal to others. I will never say that how I use a computer is superior to how someone else does. It is a little annoying when the h8ters say that the desktop is everything and the metro is useless. I just try to mind my own business and move on.

Perhaps it is forum sports, ... I was never good at sports anyway.
As a defender of 8, I guess I am a loser. But, what else is there... I guess the trick, is, to not get banned.

 

[Ray8]

And there's also the fact that fewer and fewer people were using the start menu versus using the Windows 7 Taskbar and jumplists.

So thinks Microsoft, but not the makers of Classic Shell, Start8 etc and the millions of people downloading and using the start button replacement.

So thinks a minority of Windows 8 users....

And Microsoft executives? http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/maybe-they-should-just-call-it-windows-78

 

[mdmd]

Frivolous activities? I'm a DBA and these are the tools that I must install on the server in order to work! And no, I'm not a Windows 8 hater. Again, I have been running windows 8 since the early beta on my laptop since it first came available and have run all versions until it went gold. There are some great features [love Hyper-V and miss it when I have to use work VM] but it doesn't take in consideration people who really have to work with a PC and not a tablet into consideration. Metro is a total joke. I have 8 'pages' of icons all thrown in together. I have SQL icons next to Office icons with a other applications thrown in without any real logic. For those who have a lot of applications installed, it makes it unusable. How many times will I ever need GUID generator [office 2013] and why is it next to my Mozila icon? Of course if I had a start button, everything would be accessible in a Just how is this making using a PC easier? Why have they done away with the tree-structure system of finding applications that they have had since DOS 2.0?

No one is commenting on you personally sir. You are a Data Base Administrator. That's great. Your view is your own and the ability to stay on the desktop is available to users of Windows 8 or Server 2012. The desktop has all the features necessary to complete your tasks. Stating the metro is a joke is an unfair characterization based on your personal experience and preference. Everyone does not agree with you. From your description, the system in question seems rather sloppy. You have 8 pages of icons where? On the start screen? That is completely unnecessary. The all apps area is where the organization exists. Perhaps the arrangements could be improved. How do you mean they have done away with tree structure? The file explorer should be your source for server work.

The metro is poorly utilized if the all apps area is duplicated on the start screen. Your tiles should be unpinned. Needed links should be pinned to the taskbar or desktop.