What's new

What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC

Many PC OEMs are dissatisfied with what Microsoft has done with Windows 8 and the way the company has handled the negative response to the operating system. Privately, one OEM source told me that Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry, while another claimed that Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."

What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC | ZDNet
 

SIW2

Well-Known Member
Team Member
It is odd.

MS are putting off a lot of their existing base. That is where they had about 92% control.

Instead, they are trying to battle head on against the established players in tablets and phones.

It is clear to me a lot are not buying 8 pc's.

Not all that many are buying 8 phones/tablets either.

MS will need to do something to address that.

When he says start button - he really means start menu - not the same thing.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop

labeeman

New Member
VIP Member
Member
Lenovo is one of the OEMs that offered a start menu on Windows 8 and also offered Windows 7 on there boxes they did not suffer the declines in PC sales that the other OEMs did.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win7/8 Mint
    System Manufacturer/Model
    lenovo W530
    CPU
    intell i7
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16gb
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    512 gb ssd
    Other Info
    Around 13 million employes

labeeman

New Member
VIP Member
Member
Yes, they were smart.

Unlike M$ but M$ did not have much to loose unlike the OEMs they are the ones holding the bag even for the unsold Windows 8 license.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win7/8 Mint
    System Manufacturer/Model
    lenovo W530
    CPU
    intell i7
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16gb
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    512 gb ssd
    Other Info
    Around 13 million employes

Lee

New Member
VIP Member
Power User
Sorry. . .total B.S.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8, (VM win7, XP, Vista)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion p1423w
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 3330 Ivy Bridge
    Motherboard
    Foxconn - 2ADA Ivy Brige
    Memory
    16 GB 1066MHz DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD 5450
    Sound Card
    HD Realteck (Onboard)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Mitsubishi LED TV/Montior HD, Dell 23 HD, Hanspree 25" HD
    Screen Resolution
    Mit. 1980-1080, Dell 2048-115, Hanspree 1920-10802
    Hard Drives
    1 SanDisk 240Gig SSD, 2 Samsung 512Gig SSDs
    Case
    Tower
    Cooling
    Original (Fans)
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Keyboard 2000
    Mouse
    Microsoft Optical Mouse 5000
    Internet Speed
    1.3 (350 to 1024 if lucky)
    Browser
    Firefox 19.1
    Antivirus
    MSE-Defender

SIW2

Well-Known Member
Team Member
It has been tough for the oems.

MS has reduced the license fees ( I am not sure if they have dobne it retrospectively and refunded ).

They are also getting "platform subsidies".

I suppose MS had to do that - the oems looked on the verge of revolt.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop

Ray8

Banned
In its 10-Q statement, Microsoft noted that excluding the impact of the Windows Deferral (the Upgrade Offer plus pre-sales, prior to general availability), about 65 percent of the Windows Division comes from copies of Windows purchased by OEMs, which they preinstall on PCs and tablets. The rest of the revenues are from commercial and retail sales of Windows, Surface, PC hardware products and online advertising.

The Microsoft number we all want to know: Windows 8 sales to date | ZDNet

No wonder OEMs aren't happy, as Windows 8 sales slump. It is time for a serious think about the path being taken.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64

Phone Man

Retired Bell Head
VIP Member
Pro User
All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu but it won't be long and we will see the new changes.

Jim :cool:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 HP 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center 64BIT
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS - Home Built
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X6 1100T
    Motherboard
    ASUS M5A99X EVO
    Memory
    Crucial Balistic DDR-3 1866 CL 9 (8 GB)
    Graphics Card(s)
    MSI R6850 Cyclone IGD5 PE
    Sound Card
    On Chip
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS VE258Q 25" LED with DVI-HDMI-DisplayPort
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    Two WD Cavier Black 2TB Sata 6gbs
    WD My Book Essential 2TB USB 3.0
    PSU
    Seasonic X650 80 Plus GOLD Modular
    Case
    Corsair 400R
    Cooling
    Antec Kuhler H2O 620, Two 120mm and four 140mm
    Keyboard
    AVS Gear Blue LED Backlight
    Mouse
    Logitech Marble Mouse USB, Logitech Precision Game Pad
    Internet Speed
    15MB
    Antivirus
    NIS, Malwarebytes Premium 2
    Other Info
    APC UPS ES 750, Netgear WNR3500L Gigabit & Wireless N Router with SamKnows Test Program,
    Motorola SB6120 Gigabit Cable Modem.
    Brother HL-2170W Laser Printer,
    Epson V300 Scanner

Coke Robot

New Member
Pro User
Gold Member
Lenovo is one of the OEMs that offered a start menu on Windows 8 and also offered Windows 7 on there boxes they did not suffer the declines in PC sales that the other OEMs did.

That's a pretty far stretch to say that a start menu replacement on certain models equates to success. Samsung did something similar but they're not seeing success like Lenovo.

Also, Lenovo has been offering Windows 7 for their enterprise geared PCs, pretty much everything else that is a consumer grade PC is with Windows 8.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014

Coke Robot

New Member
Pro User
Gold Member
I call BS everywhere with OEMs.

Windows 8 was known to be a touch oriented OS especially suited for the tablet PC form factor. This has been known since 2011.

It's 2013, and most of the PCs out there are not with touch. Most of the PCs out there are just laptops and ultrabooks, not tablets with Windows 8 and not many tablets with RT. Seeing as how tablets are the more desired form factor, it's a tad ridiculous to say that Windows 8 is doing poorly and OEMs are doing poorly when OEMs are still focused on nontouch laptops. Even Lenovo has said that their touch PCs are selling quite well, and in fact, there aren't enough touch displays to properly meet demand at respectable prices. Even Lenovo built the touch Yoga ultrabook well before Windows 8 hit RTM and didn't even release it until Windows 8 came out. Why? They were smart.

Microsoft could had built a netbook, laptop, ultrabook, AIO or a desktop as their platform PC with Windows 8. They didn't. Why? Because THEY already knew where the computing trend has been going and built a PC THEMSELVES several years before Windows 8. They didn't use HP or any other OEM to build the Surface tablets. That kind of already says something in itself as that's almost like a vote of no confidence.

I say, if there should be blame passed, it's on the OEMs. They aren't getting it and by the time they do, it will be too late.

But if there are bright spots I see, it's Lenovo, Acer, Vizio, and possibly ASUS. Nokia may be on that list later this year if rumors are true.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014

Lee

New Member
VIP Member
Power User
All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu but it won't be long and we will see the new changes.

Jim :cool:

Testing win 8.1 Blue (9369) at present (sending this post from there), and at this time it has not been included.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8, (VM win7, XP, Vista)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion p1423w
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 3330 Ivy Bridge
    Motherboard
    Foxconn - 2ADA Ivy Brige
    Memory
    16 GB 1066MHz DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD 5450
    Sound Card
    HD Realteck (Onboard)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Mitsubishi LED TV/Montior HD, Dell 23 HD, Hanspree 25" HD
    Screen Resolution
    Mit. 1980-1080, Dell 2048-115, Hanspree 1920-10802
    Hard Drives
    1 SanDisk 240Gig SSD, 2 Samsung 512Gig SSDs
    Case
    Tower
    Cooling
    Original (Fans)
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Keyboard 2000
    Mouse
    Microsoft Optical Mouse 5000
    Internet Speed
    1.3 (350 to 1024 if lucky)
    Browser
    Firefox 19.1
    Antivirus
    MSE-Defender

Coke Robot

New Member
Pro User
Gold Member
All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu but it won't be long and we will see the new changes.

Jim :cool:

Testing win 8.1 Blue (9369) at present (sending this post from there), and at this time it has not been included.

But in all honesty, would a start menu even matter at this point?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
All the rumors say Start Button not Start Menu but it won't be long and we will see the new changes.

Jim :cool:

Testing win 8.1 Blue (9369) at present (sending this post from there), and at this time it has not been included.

But in all honesty, would a start menu even matter at this point?

Yes, it does. I don't care about the start menu. I've adapted completely to the new win8 interface, and I love it. But most people aren't tech oriented. And change isn't something they want to see.

A few years ago as a joke I wrote a small program that permanently hide the task bar. I sent it out to everyone I know and told them to run it. Most were totally lost without the task bar. Only a couple thought it was really cool.

The point is we've been seeing touch screen coming for years. And yet OEM manufacturers kept on making devices without touch screens. And people kept on buying these devices without touchscreens.

Frankly, nowadays devices without touchscreen annoy the hell out of me. Just imagine not having a mouse and having to navigate with DOS commands. That's how annoyed I feel without touch screens.

So, yeah, I also call BS on the part of OEM's.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8

Ray8

Banned
The OEMs aren't saying anything about touch, they are making a point about the focus on apps and the abandonment of the traditional user.

Many PC OEMs are dissatisfied with what Microsoft has done with Windows 8 and the way the company has handled the negative response to the operating system. Privately, one OEM source told me that Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry, while another claimed that Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."

One of the primary reasons why Microsoft wanted to bypass the desktop and throw Windows 8 users into the confusing hell stew that is the Start Screen is to give apps a higher level of visibility.

But if Microsoft is planning to give users the ability to bypass the Start Screen, this is going to mean fewer eyeballs on apps. This could have a detrimental knock-on effect on app sales.

Will developers be interested in developing apps for Windows 8 if the focus of attention is shifted from the Start Screen to the desktop?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64

jimbo45

New Member
VIP Member
Guru
Hi there
Actually in the latest leaked build (9369 x-64) there IS a button in the start screen -- Just click that and you get a list of all the apps which you can sort.

So let's see if the Start screen really is a problem for desktop / Mouse users. -- I'm assuming here we are running an application that's NOT on the quick launch toolbar or on the desktop as starting these these are IDENTICAL in W7 and W8.

W7 Actions

-- Boot and Logon

1) Click start Orb
2) Click Menu ist level Folder say Ms Office
3) click Ms EXCEL from Ms office programs
4) start application

Now W8 scenario

Boot and Logon --- DON'T CLICK DESKTOP APP


1) Click the new button on the start screen
2) Choose EXCEL and click it

So it's actually QUICKER for a lot of apps than using the classical Menu system -- can't really see what the "Beef" is about.

There's other issues with W8 I don't like such as all those Metro apps which I've deleted from my start screen anyway.

I agree staring an app with the FIRST version of W8 was a mess -- the newer system is streets better and as the apps can also be organised in decent groups on the start screen you don't even need custom toolbars either - although these can be very useful.

Cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)

chrisa

Member
Member
So it's actually QUICKER for a lot of apps than using the classical Menu system -- can't really see what the "Beef" is about.

The QUICKEST WAY is whatever method you're accustomed to. That's the beef. People don't want to swap to The Mobile Interface to run something that should be a muscle memory click away.

Most people are simply old dogs that resent being forced to learn new tricks. I don't care if The Mobile Interface works for you and makes YOU faster, for other people its like cutting off a limb on workstations and telling people to learn how they can grow it back. Most people will never be as fast as they were, and they won't really gain much added functionality.

That's not to say that New Tricks aren't expected and welcomed. Simply don't force them on people. Let them come to you over time, if that's what they want to do.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile

Ray8

Banned
If I want to open Excel in Windows 7, I click the start button and then then the Excel link. Same with Word, Photoshop, Lightroom, Dreamweaver, Acrobat etc. If I want to open Outlook, IE, Windows Explorer etc, I simply click once on the link in the taskbar. And I don't have to leave the desktop to do any of that. I can have two screens open and not interrupt anything that's going on in either screen. How good is that?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64

jimbo45

New Member
VIP Member
Guru
Hi there
You can do all that in W8 too
Open EXEL from the start menu in W8 then open all the other apps from a taskbar / desktop link / toolbar or whatever -- almost identical - the only time you need to see the START screen is at boot -- otherwise it's almost the same.

I think this whole thing has been done to death -- I'd suspect that in a few months time this whole argument will have been long since put to bed (and a good thing too).

People have always adapted to new OS'es -- just look at people who have 97 different Linux Distros -- don't for one minute tell me they are all identical - and people don't complain about that -- if they like a distro they use it if they don't then they don't bother with it.

If people want to stay with W7 --fine -- they can stay with XP / W2000 or even Windows 3.11 if they want to.

I'm sure the final release of Windows 8.1 will make more concessions to non mobile computing devices but people will have to get used to some parts of the new GUI or use something else --their choice.

Cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)

Ray8

Banned
Hopefully you're right and in a few months the MPI will be just a bad memory, banished to RT and phones.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top