What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC

Many PC OEMs are dissatisfied with what Microsoft has done with Windows 8 and the way the company has handled the negative response to the operating system. Privately, one OEM source told me that Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry, while another claimed that Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."

What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC | ZDNet
 
But non IT people see and hear about these things and are lost. Microsoft needs to find a way of bringing back some of the same methods that they have used since the early 80's or they will lose customers. The tree-structure system that people access via the start menu needs to come back to save Windows 8
 

My Computer

System One

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    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
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    I7
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    1600X900
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    Pair of 750 GB
But non IT people see and hear about these things and are lost. Microsoft needs to find a way of bringing back some of the same methods that they have used since the early 80's or they will lose customers. The tree-structure system that people access via the start menu needs to come back to save Windows 8

That's true. I agree with you. :cool:
 

My Computer

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    Server 2012 / 8.0
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    Home Built
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    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
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    Asrock Extreme 4
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    16GB Crucial Ballistix
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    Totally silent. No fans at all.
Maybe a picture can help you understand. This is from the apps screen and I have Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate installed. Can you find it? You can't and neither can the 'search' feature. Metro and the new method of finding and using applications is broken.
VS2010.png
 

My Computer

System One

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    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    I7
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 640M 2 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900
    Hard Drives
    Pair of 750 GB
Maybe a picture can help you understand. This is from the apps screen and I have Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate installed. Can you find it? You can't and neither can the 'search' feature. Metro and the new method of finding and using applications is broken.

We could go round and round all night but to no avail. Visual Studio 2010 is dated and the installer is not designed for Windows 8, Server 2012 or WinRT. The installer for applications must be updated to properly list in WinRT. There are lots of older installers that have the same problem.

What's this?

mvs.jpg

There are issues with Adobe, and older Microsoft products and others.
If you wish to believe that the Operating System design is broken, that is your choice.

These links (in all apps) are available to further address concerns by right clicking them and selecting open file locations. Good Luck to you sir.
 

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    Server 2012 / 8.0
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    PC/Desktop
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    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
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    Asrock Extreme 4
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    16GB Crucial Ballistix
    Graphics Card(s)
    intel embedded gpu
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster Z
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AOC / Westinghouse
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Plextor pcie msata
    PSU
    Rosewill Silent Night 500W Fanless / PicoPSU
    Case
    open bench - no case enclosure
    Cooling
    Silverstone HEO2 Passive Silent
    Keyboard
    logitech washable K310
    Mouse
    logitech wired
    Browser
    ie / maxthon
    Other Info
    Totally silent. No fans at all.
That is visual studio 2012. SQL 2012 (latest version) installs it's own VS 2010. After that, I installed the full version but you will still have to look for SQL data tools to find it does SQL Data tools even sounds like visual studio.?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    I7
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 640M 2 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900
    Hard Drives
    Pair of 750 GB
Frivolous activities? I'm a DBA and these are the tools that I must install on the server in order to work! And no, I'm not a Windows 8 hater. Again, I have been running windows 8 since the early beta on my laptop since it first came available and have run all versions until it went gold. There are some great features [love Hyper-V and miss it when I have to use work VM] but it doesn't take in consideration people who really have to work with a PC and not a tablet into consideration. Metro is a total joke. I have 8 'pages' of icons all thrown in together. I have SQL icons next to Office icons with a other applications thrown in without any real logic. For those who have a lot of applications installed, it makes it unusable. How many times will I ever need GUID generator [office 2013] and why is it next to my Mozila icon? Of course if I had a start button, everything would be accessible in a Just how is this making using a PC easier? Why have they done away with the tree-structure system of finding applications that they have had since DOS 2.0?

You claim to have used win8 since the beta version and yet you never figured out that the start screen is for personalization and the real organization of all your apps are in the all apps screen? You're suppose to organize them into clusters as you go along. When there are apps that you don't use so often or you don't want to see everyday, you can unpin from the start screen.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8
Maybe a picture can help you understand. This is from the apps screen and I have Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate installed. Can you find it? You can't and neither can the 'search' feature. Metro and the new method of finding and using applications is broken.

We could go round and round all night but to no avail. Visual Studio 2010 is dated and the installer is not designed for Windows 8, Server 2012 or WinRT. The installer for applications must be updated to properly list in WinRT. There are lots of older installers that have the same problem.

As long as you aren't making Apps, Visual Studio 2010 works fine for like 99% of most needs. But the UI for 2010 tends to be far superior to 2012, imo. For some reason, they decided to remove the colorfulness of folders and what not in the Solution Explorer and instead make everything a variation on black :<. It took some getting used to, but I could see people sticking with 2010, if not working with Apps, for the environment.

Either way, the projects seamlessly open in either so you don't have to play project file conversion games. Most people who work seriously with VS, often have both installed.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 on the desktop, Windows 8 Surface Pro mobile
Hi all
This might be getting pointless as

a) Start button "Partially" works in Latest leaked release 9369 -- click the button from the Start screen and all apps are listed -- your Visual studio problem is solved - although it's still not perfect by any manner of means. Apps can be re-named, moved, grouped, re-arranged etc. (Start button feature doesn't exist on earlier leaked build 9364 BTW).

Ms are obviously working on

b) Ms is actually talking about bringing back the Start button (on the desktop) and being able to boot directly to the desktop -- this should make all these types of problems disappear at a stroke.

If you want to see the current "Half implemented" new start button read my post in this thread :

http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/24015-maybe-they-should-just-call-windows-7-8-a.html

Cheers
jimbo
 

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    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
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    PC/Desktop
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    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)
Maybe a picture can help you understand. This is from the apps screen and I have Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate installed. Can you find it? You can't and neither can the 'search' feature. Metro and the new method of finding and using applications is broken.

We could go round and round all night but to no avail. Visual Studio 2010 is dated and the installer is not designed for Windows 8, Server 2012 or WinRT. The installer for applications must be updated to properly list in WinRT. There are lots of older installers that have the same problem.

Must be the slow class here.
SQL 2012, the latest and greatest that they make, comes with VS 2010 for BIDS. It isn't for WinRT [really, who said anything about WinRT?]. It isn't an 'old' installer but the latest edition that Microsoft makes. It doesn't even show up in the apps menu so selecting open file location isn't going to work. And yes, SQL 2012 was designed to work on both Windows 8 and windows 2012. Metro/Modern UI is broken!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    I7
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 640M 2 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900
    Hard Drives
    Pair of 750 GB
I could live with windows 8 if the font rendering wasn't so blurry.

All I ask is for the option to have RGB font anti-aliasing instead of being limited to Grayscale font rendering.
 

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System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 & 8.1 64-bit, Kubuntu
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    PC/Desktop
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    Manufacturer: Me
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77-V PRO
    Memory
    G.Skill ARES DDR3 1600 - 3 x 4GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS HD7770-DC-1GD5-V2
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    on board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS PB278Q PLS LED LCD 6ms
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 500GB SSD 840 EVO
    2 x Seagate SATA3 2TB Barracuda 64mb Cache
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    Corsair HX-650
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    Cooler Master Centurion 5 II
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    Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus
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    Logitech Internet 350
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    MS Wireless Laser Mouse 5000
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    100Mb down /2.4Mb up
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    IE11, Firefox
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    Norton Internet Security
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    Leadtek DTV2000DS Dual HD TV Tuner
    USB3 kit for 2 front panel USB3 ports
I have pages and pages of this icons on my start page. It would take me far too long to organize them and rather pointless since I try to avoid the whole metro thing. Yes, I have played with the modern UI apps but what is the point when going directly to the site or opening up the 'real' application always provides a much richer experience
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    I7
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 640M 2 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900
    Hard Drives
    Pair of 750 GB
I'm just old enough to remember working with dos. And then windows came out and we got to type windows to start windows. When windows started booting directly into windows, I remember some oldies bitching about it. My brother was one of those that initially thought the new interface was crap and that he just wanted to go back to dos.

Every time a new interface is introduced the first 6 months or so people will cry armageddon and the end of life as we know it. After that initial period people will begin to think it's not that bad and once they learned how to use it efficiently people will even come to favor the new interface over the old.

I absolutely don't see any problem with windows 8. My tablet/laptop hybrid that I take with me everywhere I can do everything with it super fast. And my old i7 desktop with a 24" monitor (before it got taken from me during a burglary) I used it with windows 8 without any problem whatsoever. Whenever I wanted to open up a program, all I did was type really fast the first 4 or so letters of that program and press enter. That's faster than any start menu can make it.

And when I want to do a search, it's a lot faster for me to swipe from the right side and press the magnifying glass to start searching than any start menu.

The fact of the matter is 3 months from now the new windows 8 interface will not even be on anyone's radar. Why not argue that we need to go back to dos and that if you want windows you could always launch it from dos? I don't see anyone making that argument these days.

Remember those good old days when dos command prompt was there for you to run everything you needed to? Remember how everyone cried bloody murder when the OS launched directly into windows and if you wanted to run a dos program you have to open up a command prompt (OMG extra steps!)? Why the hell aren't you oldies making such arguments nowadays?

Technology is about change. Change to be more efficient. Change for the better. Nowadays I can launch apps faster than ever before. All I did was spent a whole 2 minutes getting to know windows 8.

Added by edit.

Now that I think more about it, I remember as a young lad trying to become tech savy I hated the mouse. Most things were dos based back then. I hated going into windows 3.1 and I hated it when the new computer my parents bought me launched directly into windows. I also heard a lot of people complaining about it as well.

I am absolutely convinced that metro is THE RIGHT PATH for Microsoft. With new interfaces like leap motion, Kinect, optical control, and other interfaces being developed or have already developed, the new interface will become much much more than just a work station. Imagine controlling your home utilities from a single system. Imagine linking your cars to your home system.

The military is already using touch interfaces in a lot of places. I have a friend who sells those tough devices with touch interfaces from Panasonic to military and law enforcement agencies, and they are more profitable than ever. Controlling drones, ships, robots, etc. won't rely on the user typing in command lines anymore. Touch will reduce input time by quite a bit.

Touch interface applications are endless.

So, again, why aren't you guys arguing for them to bring back launching directly into dos and if you want to you can launch windows from there?

Great post! +1
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built by me
    CPU
    Haswell i7-4770K
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    Gigabyte G1 Sniper 5 (BIOS F9)
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    Corsair Dominator Platinum 32 gig (1866MHz)
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    Samsung 512gig 850 Pro SSD (OS), Samsung 256gig 840 Pro SSD (photo editing), Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB HD
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    RAM Speed: 1866MHZ @ 9-10-10-27-2T, 1.5v
"My tablet/laptop hybrid..."
And it is a great OS for a tablet/laptop hybrid but not so great for laptops, desktops and servers where we don't have the same touch interface
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    I7
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 640M 2 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900
    Hard Drives
    Pair of 750 GB
Maybe a picture can help you understand. This is from the apps screen and I have Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate installed. Can you find it? You can't and neither can the 'search' feature. Metro and the new method of finding and using applications is broken.
View attachment 20497

I saw it in the bottom left corner in four seconds...
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
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    PC/Desktop
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    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
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    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
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    OCZ 500 watt
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    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
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    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
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    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014

My Computer

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  • OS
    Server 2012 / 8.0
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
    Motherboard
    Asrock Extreme 4
    Memory
    16GB Crucial Ballistix
    Graphics Card(s)
    intel embedded gpu
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster Z
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AOC / Westinghouse
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Plextor pcie msata
    PSU
    Rosewill Silent Night 500W Fanless / PicoPSU
    Case
    open bench - no case enclosure
    Cooling
    Silverstone HEO2 Passive Silent
    Keyboard
    logitech washable K310
    Mouse
    logitech wired
    Browser
    ie / maxthon
    Other Info
    Totally silent. No fans at all.
Looks like you installed VS first not SQL first
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    I7
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 640M 2 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900
    Hard Drives
    Pair of 750 GB

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Server 2012 / 8.0
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
    Motherboard
    Asrock Extreme 4
    Memory
    16GB Crucial Ballistix
    Graphics Card(s)
    intel embedded gpu
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster Z
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AOC / Westinghouse
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Plextor pcie msata
    PSU
    Rosewill Silent Night 500W Fanless / PicoPSU
    Case
    open bench - no case enclosure
    Cooling
    Silverstone HEO2 Passive Silent
    Keyboard
    logitech washable K310
    Mouse
    logitech wired
    Browser
    ie / maxthon
    Other Info
    Totally silent. No fans at all.
You didn't install SQL Data tools or the BI tools(old SSIS/SSAS) . That is the part where VS is installed. If you did, VS will for then on be called SQL Server Data Tools. I've done this over and over and the results are the same in either windows 8 or 2012. My point is it shouldn't matter what you have installed. All applications should be grouped together where they are easily assessable.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8, 2012, 7, 2008R2, 2008, 2003, XP,SUSE
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    I7
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 640M 2 GB
    Screen Resolution
    1600X900
    Hard Drives
    Pair of 750 GB
You didn't install SQL Data tools or the BI tools(old SSIS/SSAS) . That is the part where VS is installed. If you did, VS will for then on be called SQL Server Data Tools. I've done this over and over and the results are the same in either windows 8 or 2012. My point is it shouldn't matter what you have installed. All applications should be grouped together where they are easily assessable.

Hi there.

I disagree fundamentally here -- APPs should be grouped in the way YOU personally want to use them -- for instance I might be 100% Bonkers to some but I might want to run Photoshop and SQL server together --don't ask me why --but I might want to. So I should be able to group these two together --why not even if it seems totally imbecilic or plain illogical to other people.

Remember what the name PC is derived from -- PERSONAL COMPUTER -- so the way you use it should where possible be based on PERSONAL PREFERENCES and surely in 21 st century we should be able to handle peoples idiosyncracies.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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  • OS
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Server 2012 / 8.0
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
    Motherboard
    Asrock Extreme 4
    Memory
    16GB Crucial Ballistix
    Graphics Card(s)
    intel embedded gpu
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster Z
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AOC / Westinghouse
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Plextor pcie msata
    PSU
    Rosewill Silent Night 500W Fanless / PicoPSU
    Case
    open bench - no case enclosure
    Cooling
    Silverstone HEO2 Passive Silent
    Keyboard
    logitech washable K310
    Mouse
    logitech wired
    Browser
    ie / maxthon
    Other Info
    Totally silent. No fans at all.
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