Windows RT a necessary disruption

An insight into the idea of RT.

.Microsoft defended the future viability of Windows RT during an interview with CNET today.Michael Angiulo, corporate vice president, Windows Planning, Hardware & PC Ecosystem, talked with CNET about what makes RT important for the software giant.
The platform took some hard knocks before and after it debuted on October 26. A lot of the criticism has focused on the lack of compatibility with older Windows applications, in contrast to backward-compatible Windows 8 on Intel-based devices.
But Angiulo says Microsoft has good reason to stick with the platform.

More at the source.

Microsoft defends Windows RT as necessary disruption | Microsoft - CNET News

 

[Ray8]

The Medion make they also sell in Germany. Tevion I have never heard of. In Germany it's the same. If they have one of their electronic sales, people line up and if you come at e.g. 10AM, you are out of luck. I think they cannot afford to keep that stuff on the shelves. Would hurt their cash flow.

We have one small Aldi now in the area where I spend the winter here in Florida. But I never went. I don't really like their stores. They are too bland and you have nobody who can help you in a professional way. It's just cheapo - but that I can find on the internet too. At least there I get a bit of information about the product.

Medion is the computer related line and Tevion is the audio-visual related line of products (though they appear to now be selling audio-visual related stuff under the Bauhn name). There's a lot of info about their gear on-line, which you can study before the sales come up, so that you can decide whether the gear is for you.

The Aldi stores are much the same here when it comes to style and advice, but that's how they keep the prices down and provide significant competition, especially in the grocery line, to our two major stores Coles and Woolworths. Aldi has also had an impact on the price of electronic and electrical goods, causing some major price drops by their competitors in the budget range of gear. We buy some of our groceries from Aldi and I've bought a lot electronic gear and tools from them, and never had any issues with any of their gear.

Their warranty is also top notch and always honoured. For example, with the last Android tablet, you could try it out for 60 days and if not happy, return it for a full refund. No one else that I know of is prepared to do the same. I bought my wife a Medion laptop at least four years ago and it came with a 30 day trial and two year warranty; no other laptop manufacturer had even a two year warranty. And that laptop is still going strong.

 

[whs]

The Medion make they also sell in Germany. Tevion I have never heard of. In Germany it's the same. If they have one of their electronic sales, people line up and if you come at e.g. 10AM, you are out of luck. I think they cannot afford to keep that stuff on the shelves. Would hurt their cash flow.

We have one small Aldi now in the area where I spend the winter here in Florida. But I never went. I don't really like their stores. They are too bland and you have nobody who can help you in a professional way. It's just cheapo - but that I can find on the internet too. At least there I get a bit of information about the product.

So where do you come from, because all the Aldi stores I've seen in Germany are far from bland, they're usually packed to the rafters. I've never been to one in America I usually shop at Costco if they'll let me in without their coupon, which they have numerous times, they have some good cheap booze as well.

Maybe 'bland' was the wrong word. I mean not very inviting. I don't want to buy out of cartons. They don't even make an effort to put their stuff into shelves.

 

[SIW2]

MS have to get this stuff out at much lower prices.

Even then, it won't be easy.

On a different note:

Samsung and google are doing watches (not just for telling the time ), allegedly.

Might be a bit of a race between the three to get it out to market first.

That could be interesting - maybe in a few years, MS will have a go.

 

[BillWindows]

The Medion make they also sell in Germany. Tevion I have never heard of. In Germany it's the same. If they have one of their electronic sales, people line up and if you come at e.g. 10AM, you are out of luck. I think they cannot afford to keep that stuff on the shelves. Would hurt their cash flow.

We have one small Aldi now in the area where I spend the winter here in Florida. But I never went. I don't really like their stores. They are too bland and you have nobody who can help you in a professional way. It's just cheapo - but that I can find on the internet too. At least there I get a bit of information about the product.

So where do you come from, because all the Aldi stores I've seen in Germany are far from bland, they're usually packed to the rafters. I've never been to one in America I usually shop at Costco if they'll let me in without their coupon, which they have numerous times, they have some good cheap booze as well.

Maybe 'bland' was the wrong word. I mean not very inviting. I don't want to buy out of cartons. They don't even make an effort to put their stuff into shelves.

I think the brothers must have known what they're doing to become the richest guys in Germany. If I can save money I don't care whether its in a carton or not.

 

[whs]

I am different. I like creature comforts and a pleasant atmosphere. I don't mind to pay a bit more.

 

[BillWindows]

I am different. I like creature comforts and a pleasant atmosphere. I don't mind to pay a bit more.

I like creature comforts, just not when it comes to buying stuff like groceries, as long as its clean and tidy which Aldi around here always is.
I really do have 3 stores within 10 to 15 minutes from me, the other two will be about 5 to 7 minutes, I'm in Aldi paradise.

 

[Coke Robot]

I don't know whether I would buy an Acer. But there is always this one for $599 with coupon code S5555555

Asus VivoBook 15.6" Touch Screen Ultrabook, Black i5-3317U 1.7GHz #S500CA-DS51T S500CA-DS51T

That is sweet. One wonders why someone would purchase a Surface Pro when you could pick this up. Cost and screen size seem so much better.

The Hard Drives are weak. Only a 24gig SSD, which i'm not sure you could get Windows 8 on. It also includes a slow 5400RPM clunker.
Physical Size is huge in comparison, even more so when you go to to tablet mode on the Pro.
The screen resolution is crap. 1366X768? Seriously?
Nearly two and a half times the weight.

I mean, its fine if all you want is a cheapo clunker of a laptop with weak screen res and weak hard drives. But don't pretend its the same quality and specs as the Surface Pro. Its not.

No, the hard drive I'd take over 128 gigs of SSD storage of the Surface Pro. It's a hybrid hard drive with basically a giant SSD cache chip in which the system monitors your program usage and dumps your heavily used apps onto that for quicker booting of those. For more storage, you can easily swap out for an actual 256 gig SSD. There are more I/O ports, and a number pad.

But a laptop isn't a tablet PC. Maybe soon if an OEM or Microsoft builds a very proper tablet PC that is the straight up equivalent of a laptop, then yes.

Also, 600 dollars for that isn't a bad AT ALL! It's a very nicely built PC, I've been toying around with it in stores when I see it, it's quite solid. It's similar in design to Vizio's ultrabook.

 

[whs]

I like creature comforts, just not when it comes to buying stuff like groceries, as long as its clean and tidy which Aldi around here always is.
I really do have 3 stores within 10 to 15 minutes from me, the other two will be about 5 to 7 minutes, I'm in Aldi paradise.

In Germany, we have 5 or 6 big discount chains like Aldi. They all have one thing in common - very little product selection. I buy a lot of specialty products that you never find in the discount chains. That is one reason why I prefer a full retailer.

And meat products I buy at my butcher, bakery products I buy in the bakery and veggies at the veggie man who goes to the farmer market a 4AM and always has fresh veggies. E.g. white asperagus (which I love) has to be eaten within 36 hours of harvesting. The big chains can never make that turnaround time - but my veggie man can.

And often we do our shopping in France which is nearby. There I go to the affineur to get my cheese. When I buy e.g. a camembert, he asks whether I want to eat it tonight or tomorrow. That makes a difference. Try that in a supermarket. And my pates or terrines I buy in the charcuterie. There I know it is fresh.

Wherever possible, I just refuse to buy this factory produced stuff. It is not 100% possible to avoid it, but where possible, I buy good fresh food. That is also why I really suffer during the winter when I am in Florida. There is no way to get good food. No fresh veggies, no fresh cheeses, no bakery in sight, etc. I always gain 10 pounds during the winter because of the different diet.

 

[rmeigs]

I don't know whether I would buy an Acer. But there is always this one for $599 with coupon code S5555555

Asus VivoBook 15.6" Touch Screen Ultrabook, Black i5-3317U 1.7GHz #S500CA-DS51T S500CA-DS51T

That is sweet. One wonders why someone would purchase a Surface Pro when you could pick this up. Cost and screen size seem so much better.

The Hard Drives are weak. Only a 24gig SSD, which i'm not sure you could get Windows 8 on. It also includes a slow 5400RPM clunker.
Physical Size is huge in comparison, even more so when you go to to tablet mode on the Pro.
The screen resolution is crap. 1366X768? Seriously?
Nearly two and a half times the weight.

I mean, its fine if all you want is a cheapo clunker of a laptop with weak screen res and weak hard drives. But don't pretend its the same quality and specs as the Surface Pro. Its not.

Sorry, but I don't see in my comment where I "pretend its the same quality and specs as the Surface Pro?"

 

[BillWindows]

I like creature comforts, just not when it comes to buying stuff like groceries, as long as its clean and tidy which Aldi around here always is.
I really do have 3 stores within 10 to 15 minutes from me, the other two will be about 5 to 7 minutes, I'm in Aldi paradise.

In Germany, we have 5 or 6 big discount chains like Aldi. They all have one thing in common - very little product selection. I buy a lot of specialty products that you never find in the discount chains. That is one reason why I prefer a full retailer.

And meat products I buy at my butcher, bakery products I buy in the bakery and veggies at the veggie man who goes to the farmer market a 4AM and always has fresh veggies. E.g. white asperagus (which I love) has to be eaten within 36 hours of harvesting. The big chains can never make that turnaround time - but my veggie man can.

And often we do our shopping in France which is nearby. There I go to the affineur to get my cheese. When I buy e.g. a camembert, he asks whether I want to eat it tonight or tomorrow. That makes a difference. Try that in a supermarket. And my pates or terrines I buy in the charcuterie. There I know it is fresh.

Wherever possible, I just refuse to buy this factory produced stuff. It is not 100% possible to avoid it, but where possible, I buy good fresh food. That is also why I really suffer during the winter when I am in Florida. There is no way to get good food. No fresh veggies, no fresh cheeses, no bakery in sight, etc. I always gain 10 pounds during the winter because of the different diet.

In Australia fresh food is always available, just different veges for the various seasons. I'm not that fussy when it comes to food, as long as its reasonable, but meat yeah that's got to be good, cheese I love but I eat all kinds from Blue vein to Brie and matured cheeses.
The best meals I've ever had were in Manheim and Bad Bramsted Germany and a couple of places on the West Coast of Scotland.

 

[Coke Robot]

I like creature comforts, just not when it comes to buying stuff like groceries, as long as its clean and tidy which Aldi around here always is.
I really do have 3 stores within 10 to 15 minutes from me, the other two will be about 5 to 7 minutes, I'm in Aldi paradise.

In Germany, we have 5 or 6 big discount chains like Aldi. They all have one thing in common - very little product selection. I buy a lot of specialty products that you never find in the discount chains. That is one reason why I prefer a full retailer.

And meat products I buy at my butcher, bakery products I buy in the bakery and veggies at the veggie man who goes to the farmer market a 4AM and always has fresh veggies. E.g. white asperagus (which I love) has to be eaten within 36 hours of harvesting. The big chains can never make that turnaround time - but my veggie man can.

And often we do our shopping in France which is nearby. There I go to the affineur to get my cheese. When I buy e.g. a camembert, he asks whether I want to eat it tonight or tomorrow. That makes a difference. Try that in a supermarket. And my pates or terrines I buy in the charcuterie. There I know it is fresh.

Wherever possible, I just refuse to buy this factory produced stuff. It is not 100% possible to avoid it, but where possible, I buy good fresh food. That is also why I really suffer during the winter when I am in Florida. There is no way to get good food. No fresh veggies, no fresh cheeses, no bakery in sight, etc. I always gain 10 pounds during the winter because of the different diet.

I have to say first off, reading the email notification about this on a tread about Windows RT... what?!

I like that, fresh and locally grown is the way to go! Where I live, we have a fruit orchard in the Snake River canyon where they grow pretty much every tree fruit. You go and pick it yourself or buy some already picked. There is also a raspberry field somewhere around here that I haven't been to since I was literally five years old. All I remember from that was eating all the raspberries instead of picking them. I also try to go to small specialty shops where they hand pick or hand make/bake everything. I don't believe in processed foods, it's just...wow, no. I'll only do it if it's delicious.

But I've never heard of white asparagus before. Interesting. Also, I cannot do camembert. Ugh... Not the best cheese I've ever had, it's like dairy texture cheese that tastes like a really weird vegetable. Oy.

 

[chrisa]

That is sweet. One wonders why someone would purchase a Surface Pro when you could pick this up. Cost and screen size seem so much better.

The Hard Drives are weak. Only a 24gig SSD, which i'm not sure you could get Windows 8 on. It also includes a slow 5400RPM clunker.
Physical Size is huge in comparison, even more so when you go to to tablet mode on the Pro.
The screen resolution is crap. 1366X768? Seriously?
Nearly two and a half times the weight.

I mean, its fine if all you want is a cheapo clunker of a laptop with weak screen res and weak hard drives. But don't pretend its the same quality and specs as the Surface Pro. Its not.

No, the hard drive I'd take over 128 gigs of SSD storage of the Surface Pro. It's a hybrid hard drive with basically a giant SSD cache chip in which the system monitors your program usage and dumps your heavily used apps onto that for quicker booting of those. For more storage, you can easily swap out for an actual 256 gig SSD. There are more I/O ports, and a number pad.

I'll take 128 gigs of fast access over a 5400rpm snail given a touch of grease. How slow is 5400rpm? I can't remember owning a hard drive less than 7200rpm. Ever. And even that was usually too slow.. i always preferred using 10k WD Velociraptors.

And just saying.. oh.. just swap it out.. is wasteful and adds more $$ to the price. Not to mention that the op sys is probably baked into the original hard drive and you'd probably need to buy another copy if you dropped in a seperate hard drive.

Either way, going with cheap hardware and trying to slap parts on it, has a fair chance of turning into a hot slow mess of a computer that more likely ends up costing you around the same.. if not in actually money, in time wrestling with it. Trust me.. been there. With laptops, its better to simply get a quality design that actually meets your specs.

The rule of thumb i adhere to is if its a workstation, its better made from parts. If its a laptop or mobile device, simply buy quality.

 

[Ray8]

The reports that I've read about cache drives is that they work very well indeed, not that far behind a regular SSD, and should the drive fail, you're back to the regular speed of the HDD. However, cache drives are kind of falling out of favour for PCs, because SSDs are dropping rapidly in price.

But you can't extrapolate your needs and desires to others, who may well find a HDD more than adequate. And you also need to consider that a 500GB SSD is still considerably more expensive than a 500GB HDD. And if you want to keep an image of your system on another drive, which is a good idea, a second 500GB HDD is cheap to buy.

 

[Coke Robot]

The Hard Drives are weak. Only a 24gig SSD, which i'm not sure you could get Windows 8 on. It also includes a slow 5400RPM clunker.
Physical Size is huge in comparison, even more so when you go to to tablet mode on the Pro.
The screen resolution is crap. 1366X768? Seriously?
Nearly two and a half times the weight.

I mean, its fine if all you want is a cheapo clunker of a laptop with weak screen res and weak hard drives. But don't pretend its the same quality and specs as the Surface Pro. Its not.

No, the hard drive I'd take over 128 gigs of SSD storage of the Surface Pro. It's a hybrid hard drive with basically a giant SSD cache chip in which the system monitors your program usage and dumps your heavily used apps onto that for quicker booting of those. For more storage, you can easily swap out for an actual 256 gig SSD. There are more I/O ports, and a number pad.

I'll take 128 gigs of fast access over a 5400rpm snail given a touch of grease. How slow is 5400rpm? I can't remember owning a hard drive less than 7200rpm. Ever. And even that was usually too slow.. i always preferred using 10k WD Velociraptors.

And just saying.. oh.. just swap it out.. is wasteful and adds more $$ to the price. Not to mention that the op sys is probably baked into the original hard drive and you'd probably need to buy another copy if you dropped in a seperate hard drive.

Either way, going with cheap hardware and trying to slap parts on it, has a fair chance of turning into a hot slow mess of a computer that more likely ends up costing you around the same.. if not in actually money, in time wrestling with it. Trust me.. been there. With laptops, its better to simply get a quality design that actually meets your specs.

The rule of thumb i adhere to is if its a workstation, its better made from parts. If its a laptop or mobile device, simply buy quality.

They're really not that slow, not ideal for task intensive things, but still fast enough to boot under 30 seconds with decent hardware. Obviously it isn't a SSD.

Comparing a 600 dollar laptop with a 500 gig hard drive to a 9-1,000 dollar tablet PC with a 128 gig SSD gives you a difference of 3-400 dollars that can be used to ADD MUCH MORE SSD storage over the Surface Pro. Yes, you can add more storage to the Pro, but it's external, not internal. And no, Windows 8 PCs have the Windows license key cooked into the BIOS, not the hard drive, so you just get a copy of an OEM installer, install it, connect to the internet, and activate it. That's it.

And also, that ASUS isn't cheap hardware IN THE VERY SLIGHTEST. It normally retails from what I've physically seen for about 750 dollars, but that was with 8 gigs of RAM over the 6 listed online, two more than the Surface Pro. It's a very well built PC, if you've handled a Vizio ultrabook, it's that same caliber of quality. Online, you would be saving about 150 dollars for a six gig RAM edition. In store, it's like a retail price of 750 for the model I already said. This is an ASUS laptop, not Acer. ASUS is known for real decent PC quality, depending on obvious price points. They make good hardware. I should know, I've built several PCs with ASUS motherboards, worked on several ASUS laptops and netbooks; so I know their build quality has standards.


This depends on the person, some want a laptop or one with a touchscreen that has usual power and design of a laptop over a tablet PC that is of more cost. It depends, personally, that ASUS laptop is number two on a list of four Windows 8 PCs I would buy, after the Surface Pro of course.

 

[whs]

But I've never heard of white asparagus before. Interesting. Also, I cannot do camembert. Ugh... Not the best cheese I've ever had, it's like dairy texture cheese that tastes like a really weird vegetable. Oy.

White asparagus is the ultimate. One of the finest veggies you can find - only topped by morels, but that is a mushroom. When in season (Mai, June), they harvest thousands of tons every day in Germany. They have to bring in helpers from eastern Europe to do it. One asperagus farmer that was interviewed on German TV had 370 farmhands during those 2 months. It is very labor intensive, but yummy.

If you have not been in Europe, you have never eaten camembert. The stuff they sell e.g. in the US under the name camembert has nothing to do with the real thing. In the US there is a law that you cannot make cheeses from raw milk. But camabert, like all soft cheeses, has to be made from raw milk else it will not ferment. So they try to make some stuff from pasteurized milk and they call it camembert. That is like trying to make wine from boiled grape juice.

Interestingly enough the FDA allows the import of Roquefort cheese. That is made from raw milk too, but not cow milk but milk from sheep.

 

[Coke Robot]

But I've never heard of white asparagus before. Interesting. Also, I cannot do camembert. Ugh... Not the best cheese I've ever had, it's like dairy texture cheese that tastes like a really weird vegetable. Oy.

White asparagus is the ultimate. One of the finest veggies you can find - only topped by morels, but that is a mushroom. When in season (Mai, June), they harvest thousands of tons every day in Germany. They have to bring in helpers from eastern Europe to do it. One asperagus farmer that was interviewed on German TV had 370 farmhands during those 2 months. It is very labor intensive, but yummy.

If you have not been in Europe, you have never eaten camembert. The stuff they sell e.g. in the US under the name camembert has nothing to do with the real thing. In the US there is a law that you cannot make cheeses from raw milk. But camabert, like all soft cheeses, has to be made from raw milk else it will not ferment. So they try to make some stuff from pasteurized milk and they call it camembert. That is like trying to make wine from boiled grape juice.

Interestingly enough the FDA allows the import of Roquefort cheese. That is made from raw milk too, but not cow milk but milk from sheep.

Huh, never knew that about camembert. I wonder if some specialty food shops around here might have genuine imported camembert or that Roquefort cheese. I've never been to Europe, yet. The thing I remember I didn't really like so much about it was the outer part of the cheese, the rest seemed rather fine and mild though... The kind that goes with some good bread.

I also do not care for mushrooms. Nope. At least here in the US where they mass grow them in icky conditions, but I still can't bring myself to eat/enjoy a fungus.

 

[Ray8]

Years back we used to go to a cheese cellar (it was built underground above a barn) run by a German fellow, who would import cheese and pate from Europe and have tastings which he accompanied with wine. It was the reversal of a wine cellar.

We went there just about weekly when the pate was in season, as apparently he wouldn't import any at the wrong time of year, to get the best pate ever. Sadly the cellar wasn't frequented sufficiently and he eventually closed down. Buying pate and cheese from the supermarket just isn't the same.

 

[chrisa]

And also, that ASUS isn't cheap hardware IN THE VERY SLIGHTEST. It normally retails from what I've physically seen for about 750 dollars, but that was with 8 gigs of RAM over the 6 listed online, two more than the Surface Pro. It's a very well built PC, if you've handled a Vizio ultrabook, it's that same caliber of quality.

If a 5400rpm hard drive and a maximum screen res of 1366x768 doesn't constitute cheap hardware.. what does? :>

 

[Ray8]

If a 5400rpm hard drive and a maximum screen res of 1366x768 doesn't constitute cheap hardware.. what does? :>

It may be monetarily cheap, but not necessarily technically (build etc) cheap. You can buy a brand new superseded model car for far less than the new model, but that doesn't mean the superseded car is rubbish.

 

[whs]

Coke, I don't think you will find camembert in the US. The FDA does not allow the import - although there used to be a shop in Greenwich, Conn, that had managed to get it. They also had Pont l'Eveque, one of my other favorites. But their stuff was usually a bit old. So I bought it only a couple of times during the 3 years I lived in White Plains, NY. Brie is especially touchy. If it is older than 4 or 5 days, you can forget about it. It will run in all directions. And NEVER put soft cheese into the fridge. It will harden. Keep it in the cool basement under a cloche (glass dome).

Roquefort you can buy at Sam's club. I just got some 2 days ago. Roquefort is not very touchy. You can keep it for a long time in the fridge. Around here you will find only the Societe make. They are the biggest of the 3 makes. I like Papillion. But that you only find in France. When I was in the village of Roquefort, I visited their caves. The rock in which those caves are is the only place in the world where Roquefort can be made. That was one of the most interesting visits I have ever made.

The problem with mushrooms in the US is that you can't get any. All you get is the white mushrooms that we call 'champinion de Paris' and then Shitake. But try to find chanterelles, cepes or morels. Those are all mushrooms that you cannot grow and people have to go out into the forest to find them. I guess there are no people in the US that do that - or maybe those mushrooms do not even grow here.