Will 90 percent of users always hate Windows 8?

[SIW2]

Have you wondered why the word NEW is a common sight - on packaging for example.

That is to show the potential buyers the product is either new - or more often , has changed.

They do not do that to put people off.

 

[jackdashack]

Doesn't / Hasn't television done the same thing through it's evolution, Neilsen ratings, the pop ups on tv now when you watch one show, ads for the next show or some event in the future are popping up. Why pick on the pc when cable does it. Everything does it and tv led the way. You couldn't listen to radio in the 30's without the very host doing the ads. George Burns right in the middle of the skit would break into an ad, sometimes impromtu, for his sponser. Ads have always driven media. It's nothing new with Windows 8 or cable, or tv, or radio. It's ever present and always been there. I don't see what the deal it but you are only looking to pick. I have given my side above but admitted "to each his own." I'm just glad that I'm enjoying my experience because all the words, arguments and rancor is never going to turn back the evolution. Will you ever be happy again? Life is too short. You can't turn this clock back. So enjoy I say, that's all I am trying to get across. Fuming about it will never change a thing. ":-\

I think I will stop my answers to this post. It's futile. If some one wants to be angry you hardly can stop that. :huh:

 

[labeeman]

Fuming about it will never change a thing. ":-\

That is where you are Flat wrong. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Microsoft: Go Ahead and Transfer Office 2013 to Another PC | Maximum PC

 

[whs]

I think we have exchanged all the arguments that are possible. At the end, everybody has to decide for himself/herself whether to use Windows 8 or not.

Mr.Whs, you are obviously right. And I mean that sincerely, why look at all the credentials and the things you've written. But when it comes down to it, like you said, it's individual but it is an attitude that sometimes needs adjusting. Your alternative system that you like is probably a sweet thing if you say so. I'd be inclined to look at even though I don't know what it means and entails. But be sure, not matter how slick and sweet this alternative OS is, basically, the same people would complain. I don't know what you mean by Windows 8 doesn't feel right. When I first got this new HP with Win8 2 months ago the poor XP filed for divorce. I neglected it terribly. But when I went back to it to start taking some of the big programs off and cleaning it up for a more "retired" use ... it didn't feel right ... and it doesn't feel right when I use it now. I am enamored with the new Win8. I love the "live" tiles ... the more the better. Makes for a very interesting desktop. But one thing I'll say in bowing out ... I respect your knowledge and wish I had just what your little pinkie would have in my own head. To each his own I guess. but I am one complainer that learned I could change and love it. Even at the tender age of SSI. To all a G'day! jack ":-D

If you'd like to experiment with something a bit different, have a look here.

 

[SIW2]

Where you live, there might be more ads on tv than previously. That doesn't mean people have to like more ads being shoved at them elsewhere.


I don't think anybody is fuming.

It is a forum, we are interested in discussing these things.

It is particularly interesting to see how MS are going to deal with the current situation.

Some will be curious what they are going to do in a technical sense, others may be interested from a marketing perspective, for example.

Corporations will respond to the market, there is a point in rejecting things that do not fulfill the consumers wants and needs.

 

[mdmd]

If you'd like to experiment with something a bit different

I tried Linux many times but never could get along with Linux not remembering Window sizes without individual configurations. Also, never liked all the strange programs that are included by default.
Really not a terminal sudo person.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

@Jack,

There is a lot of traffic going down our residential street.

When they have completed work on the road fairly nearby - that trafiic will go down there. It is a slightly more direct route and much faster for the traffic.

It is also a relief to the residents.

That is a change - a big change. It will be met with delight.

Your idea that people complain at change is completely false.

You are speaking of change for the better. The author speaks of change for the worse. At least for the greater majority. To quote the article:

A tiny percentage (say one percent) of users are experts, with a high tolerance for learning.

A few more (say nine percent) of users are willing adopters — they have an expectation that the product will meet their needs, and some (albeit low) tolerance for learning.

The remaining 90 percent of users just use technology to get a job done and have no tolerance for learning at all. These are mainstreamers.

Lets say the figures are correct, which I doubt, but the author has stated these figures.

If 1% have a high tolerance for learning, can we assume that 90% do not have that tolerance? If that's true, can we assume that is resistance to change?

It seems to me if people are intolerable to learn that means they are resisting the change. It seems they cannot tolerate change. If A = B and B = C then A = C. Yes?

 

[SIW2]

An example is in the link labeeman provided:

"A key ingredient in our formula for success is listening to our customers, and we're grateful for the feedback behind this change... Thank you," Microsoft added.

 

[SIW2]

You are speaking of change for the better.

Exactly, change for the better is fine.

Change for the worse will not go down so well.

I doesn't matter what a tiny number of fans think. The public do not want what is being offered.

If you want to believe it is the customers fault - they are stupid, lazy , or any other insult you want to throw at them - then that is up to you.

That is the kind of thing Dictators go for - they are too stupid - we know what is best for them , etc.

 

[whs]

The base assumption must be that people do not like change. You see that in all walks of life. Even if the change is for the better, it is usually rejected.

So the art is that a provider must balance the amount of change with the benifits of the new thing. If there is a LOT of change for little benifit, people will not buy into it.

 

[dsscottage]

My Experience

Just to provide context...
I have been using computers since the late 1960s (timeshare main frame in those days). I bought my first PC in 1982 (with DOS 1.1). I'm retired now but in my past career, computers were never my core job but they were always part of the job. I'm now heavily in web design, video and photo editing. All this to say, I won't claim to be an expert but I am very comfortable with computers.

In my view, the whole issue here is "What do people use computers for?"......
People don't use computers to use the operating system. It's only purpose is to provide a platform and consistent user interface for the programs that are used to get real work done. As such, it is supremely frustrating for most users to be required to learn a new OS interface that merely allows them do do what they already know how do do with the old interface. If a new program or OS provides a truly better, faster or more powerful function, then the learning curve is worthwhile. In my view, the new Win 8 Start Page and apps do not meet this requirement.

Similar to Matt Baxter-Reynolds father, I had to buy a new desktop and it came with Win 8. This ended up being my most frustrating computer experience ever! I also bought a new Solid State Drive with the intention of installing it and transferring Win8 to it. Of course, the new system didn't come with a Win 8 DVD and the manufacturer wouldn't supply any media that would allow me to re-install the OS. Ultimately, I had to purchase Win 8 media (it's a long story). The HDD that came with the new system was GPT formatted for the UEFI BIOS. Win 8 would not natively format the new SSD as GPT and complete a UEFI installation. In total, I spent almost 2 weeks before finally getting Win 8 successfully installed on the SSD.

In addition to the new PC, my home network has a Win XP computer and media server. Win 8 was unable to see either and a password was necessary to access Win 8 from the XP machine and media server. I was unable to fix this problem so I reluctantly called Microsoft tech support. It took 3 calls and over 4 hours on-line before the MS tech could fix the problem (this included a referral to a Level II tech). To their credit, their service was prompt, dedicated and very helpful. This was very unexpected! GOOD FOR YOU MICROSOFT!

OK so now Win 8 is working perfectly and I'm determined to learn the new interface:

1. Many of the programs that were re-installed have multiple menu links in the old cascading Start menu (eg. Read Me or other non-specific titles). Each of them appeared as a separate tile on the Win 8 Start page. I have a wide variety of programs and ended up with a mess of tiles that didn't have a clear reference to their parent program. It took a lot of time but I identified the parent and rearranged the tiles into appropriate groups. This was an unnecessary and time consuming manual step that would not have been required with a cascading start menu. Even after this was done, my Start page was excessively large making it harder to start any program. (i.e. cluttered with "Read Me", "uninstall" and other seldom used tiles)

2. The Win 8 Apps - Give Me a Break! They all run full screen! This is just stupid on my 28" monitor. Here's a silly example. I'm not a gamer but occasionally, I might play a game or 2 of Minesweeper while I'm waiting for a video to render. In an older OS, Minesweeper runs in a small window so that I can watch the progress of the video rendering and be ready to return to real work when the rendering is complete. Win 8 Minesweeper runs full screen, and has no option to minimize or resize the window.

3. With a 28" monitor, I normally have my e-mail program open in one window and another app (usually a browser) in another window, each of them taking half the screen. Win 8 apps Mail and IE - they both run full screen. Geez! The OS is called "Windows". It should use windows!!!!!!

4. There is both a desktop and Win 8 app version for IE and they operate differently! Geez!

I could go on and on but this post is already too long.

I stuck with the Win 8 interface for quite a while but I finally go so frustrated that I installed "Classic Start Menu" and "ModernMix" to return Win 8 to a more traditional interface. I also installed other programs such as Thunderbird and Chrome to make it more usable.

After having done this, I like Win 8. It is much faster to boot, operate and shut down. However, some of this will be due to the new hardware. So far, it also seems rock solid.

So this is my bottom line.....
I understand Microsoft's objective to unify the desktop/tablet/smartphone interface (for their own profitability reasons). However, I believe that they have miscalculated. The Win 8 interface doesn't work well on a desktop/laptop where real work is done and windows are a benefit. The Win 8 interface is probably better on a smartphone where most are unlikely to be multi-tasking and certainly not creating complex spreadsheets.

If Microsoft was to release Windows 8.1 with the option of a Classic start button and apps with a "close/minimize option", they could have a winner on their hands.

 

[SIW2]

If Microsoft was to release Windows 8.1 with the option of a Classic start button and apps with a "close/minimize option", they could have a winner on their hands.

That would appear to be an important factor.

 

[Ray8]

I'm kind of gobsmacked that some people suggest that everyone should simply accept Windows 8 in its current form without complaint. Some of the changes that Microsoft have made may be deemed necessary, but what they have removed have also been deemed necessary by many existing users. The rising level of discontent is clear evidence that the latter is the case. We are not in the military, where you simply accept everything that is thrust at you and there will be no complaints. Microsoft depends far more on us, then we do on Microsoft.

I pointed out an example earlier of an Australia brewery that reduced the alcohol content in the most popular beer in Australia for financial reasons, which at the same time changed the taste of the beer somewhat and infuriated those who loved this beer. The rise of complaints and drop in sales caused the company to cry Mea Culpa and return the beer to its original recipe. There are numerous examples like this throughout the world. We are in a market driven economy, if suppliers don't provide what the market wants, they go under.

 

[whs]

Right, no need to buy this stuff if you don't like it. Many companies went down in the past because they took the wrong turn - and some were very big.

 

[pcRat]

Ray— why do you insist on changing Microsoft terminology? Other than yourself, some members in this group and some of your friends; nobody knows what MPI stands for. This is the only information I can find online about MPI.
It may be an appropriate way to describe the main menu but it gets confusing when one has a problem and their source of help is using a term that can't be looked up for a description.
Meaningful discussions and help sessions requires words and terms that everyone knows the meaning of. Anything else
"leaves the reader guessing the meaning, intent and target audience, does not add to or enhance meaningful discussion."

What is Microsoft's official name for the interface, the one with lots of squares that most people dislike?

No one seems to know, for example: Five reasons why Windows 8 has failed | ZDNet

I said it before, I'll say it again: Metro, or whatever you want to call it,...

A lot of people are confused, so yes, I created the acronym MPI (Mobile Phone Interface) purely for this forum, as it's the only Windows forum that I'm on and I was heartily sick of using naming conventions that were no more valid than the MPI. As I said, the term MPI is very apt, as it is exactly what you see on a Windows 8 mobile phone, Windows 8 tablet and Windows 8 PC.

I Googled 'eightforums mpi' and the first three listings gave you the details. Your posting here simply enhances the understanding of the term MPI, so thank you. I could have been derogatory of the interface and called in the CRAPP interface (CRAPP meaning crap app interface), but that would have been grossly unfair and not reflective of how I feel about the interface. I don't believe it's crap, but simply inappropriate for a desktop PC (or maybe it is crap, for desktop PCs - now you've got me thinking).

Uncle ! I give up ! You win Ray !
How can I compete with the advice to type in the location for Google to search ? 'eightforums mpi' ; you're making Google look bad.

 

[BillWindows]

Thank God we've got Superheros.

 

[whs]

 

[Ray8]

Uncle ! I give up ! You win Ray !
How can I compete with the advice to type in the location for Google to search ? 'eightforums mpi' ; you're making Google look bad.

Excellent! When you go to a gun fight, don't take a knife.

I prefer:



It's been long known that the search facilities on every forum known to World plus Dog are pretty hopeless and that a simple entry into Google usually gets what you're after the first time.

 

[Ray8]

Thank God we've got Superheros.

Bill, Coke and rat

 

[HippsieGypsie]

You are speaking of change for the better.

Exactly, change for the better is fine.

Change for the worse will not go down so well.

I doesn't matter what a tiny number of fans think. The public do not want what is being offered.

If you want to believe it is the customers fault - they are stupid, lazy , or any other insult you want to throw at them - then that is up to you.

That is the kind of thing Dictators go for - they are too stupid - we know what is best for them , etc.

By your postings you think 8 is a change for the worse. Were you around for the change of DOS to Windows 95? A big change of interface wouldn't you agree? From a command line OS to a desktop OS. More user friendly the way I see it. One didn't need to be an Einstein to use it any longer. Just press an icon to open a file. All neatly based on office filing system. Desktop, folders, filing cabinet, etc. Not too difficult to comprehend.

That was the birth of Windows, correct? Since then MS has changed each OS for what they thought was for the better. There were those that liked or disliked the changes for each new edition. MS continued selling a lot of OSs. Billions for $billions$.

I'm beginning to see that it's not that 8 is broken, it's the fact that it's too big of a change, therefore people for the most part don't want to learn it. This is what the article points out.

No, I never call them stupid, lazy, or otherwise, but I will call them stubborn. Stubborn to what a majority on this forum see what is a change for the better. Forum polls show this majority, not just "a few". But, we on the forum are techies or enthusiasts, so we most likely fall in the 1/9% category not the 90%.

Did MS make changes to attempt to make more money? Of course they did. Just like DOS to 95 to 98 to 98SE and so on. I see no problem with the Start Screen/All Apps replacing the Start Menu. I see no problem using a Live account for one to sign into one's computer. I see no problem with them with opening their Store to sell apps. I see no problem with them trying to attract users to the cloud. I see no problem with subscription software. I see no problem with any of this as long as there remains an alternative and there remains an alternative to every one I mentioned except one. The Start Screen. It's still a searchable menu.

When there's no alternative to the others, then there's a problem. A problem of "dictatorship".