W8 could be better by REMOVING the desktop APP

[HippsieGypsie]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Although many factors involved as to why MS is heading in their certain direction, I think it boils down to the processor and the battery. It's about energy consumption with the technology we have today.

RT is written for a companion to the Windows phone 8 OS, which the phone being the lowest form factor. This is what Jimbo and others are stressing. In addition MS is developing an OS to work across and to be familiar across multiple devices for users. Win32 does not meet this scenario. Metro/Modern RT does. I think that's why the big change.

The desktop portal will be included for awhile in this transition until all software is written in the Metro/Modern RT interface. The way I understand it is that this software is less resource demanding which meets the lowest common denominator of devices -> the battery. We need batteries because we as societies desire and are becoming ever so more mobile.

I will commit to researching and writing a thread on batteries and another energy storage device that a man developed a few years ago which is a super capacitor similar to what is found in an electric motor to start up. I haven't heard anything about it since. Probably one of those inventions that got squashed by the battery industry. We all know about these kinds of things.

 

[alphanumeric]

@ HippsieGypsie> The big difference between a Windows RT device and a Windows 8 device is that Windows RT is written for and runs on devices using ARM processors. There is a big difference between that and Windows 8 or 8 Pro running on a tablet with an x86 based processor. They look the same but RT devices can't run your regular x86 Windows Programs. They would have to be rewritten as Windows RT is effectively a totally different operating system from Windows 8. At least that's my understanding.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Yes, that's my understanding. Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro runs both RT and Win32. As I mentioned, when all software is written in the Metro/Modern RT interface the desktop will go bye bye. So will Win32 and x86 processors. At least in mobile devices. To me it boils down to a lower end processor eating up less battery. So it's about the battery if we choose to be more mobile. Isn't this the age we have arrived at? Why would I want to sit behind my PC when I could be outside enjoying nature as well? I am more a part of nature than a machine. I do not desire a machine to control me. I want to control it.

Take a drink. Take a drive. Go out and see what you can find.

 

[alphanumeric]

Windows RT and Windows 8 are two different operating systems. They both run Metro apps but 8 and 8 Pro don't run any RT anything. It's my understanding that Metro is an API and RT is an operating system. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Coke Robot]

Actually, the metro apps are WinRT coded, which is basically a pretty layer on top of the elder Win32 coding. Basically, new plumbing in an old but stable apartment building. Windows RT is a compiled version of Windows for the RISC instruction set.

 

[Hopachi]

Yes, that's my understanding. Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro runs both RT and Win32. As I mentioned, when all software is written in the Metro/Modern RT interface the desktop will go bye bye. So will Win32 and x86 processors. At least in mobile devices. To me it boils down to a lower end processor eating up less battery. So it's about the battery if we choose to be more mobile. Isn't this the age we have arrived at? Why would I want to sit behind my PC when I could be outside enjoying nature as well? I am more a part of nature than a machine. I do not desire a machine to control me. I want to control it.

Don't forget what Win32 stands for. It simply cannot be removed this soon because a lot of software is based on it.
I think even 32bit metro apps rely on Win32 on the PC.

Take a drink. Take a drive. Go out and see what you can find.

In the Summertime, right?

 

[Hopachi]

Actually, the metro apps are WinRT coded, which is basically a pretty layer on top of the elder Win32 coding. Basically, new plumbing in an old but stable apartment building. Windows RT is a compiled version of Windows for the RISC instruction set.

A layer on top of Win32. For those who want the base layer gone, the top will not run anymore.

 

[MrShowdown]

For me, the best way to remove desktop while maintaining support for old programs is by moving all system components to Metro, then replacing desktop with a Win32 emulator.

Basically the Win32 emulator is an app for Metro, which basically converts Desktop programs to a Metro app (No multiple program windows in one instance while the program being run can have resizeable windows)

 

[lehnerus2000]

Doesn't seem likely to be acceptable to business

If M$ will ditch the desktop in future they might as well ditch legacy win32 api too.
Forcing developers to develop windows store apps only and either distibute apps in store or sideloading.
And rewrite the rest of the OS making it fully "metro" or whatever they call it now lol.
That been said im not a windows 8 hater in fact I like it.

There are a lot of businesses (allegedly) that still run XP (and IE6) because they can't replace the software they have and it won't run properly on later versions of Windows.

If businesses aren't buying W8, despite the fact that all of their old software (allegedly) runs on it, what makes you think they will buy a new OS, which will require the replacement of all of their software (and probably their hardware too)?

I suppose that they could force their employees to buy the necessary hardware and software (BYOD).

 

[Tepid]

Actually, you will be seeing a lot of BYOD, but you are also going to see a lot more virtualization via cloud services, both public and private. Remote Desktop Environments and Dumb Terminals (terminal Services), we are going to make a loop back to the 80's and early 90's.

But I will say this, IF, they implement Metro apps in the way you can using Stardock MetroMix, ONLY Then could i see getting rid of the desktop on some devices,,, MAYbe.......

Sorry, but having full screen apps or 33/66 apps running is a real pain, especially when you can't actually resize them
Not all apps require all that space to be dedicated. they just don't.

I have 3 monitors running Win7, I have 7+ apps going at any one time. On one screen I have 3 apps (Notepad scratch space, the app I use for recording data, and another app) To do the job I have, there is no way in hell that I could be at all efficient with 8 Metro Apps only, no way, can't be done, it would literally suck the life out of me.

I like what they are trying to do with the underlying code of integration between devices and synch, but they should have done a MetroMix out of the box with better scaling for the apps in windowed mode.

Sorry, but if the Desktop goes away from Windows Completely, it really will be the end of Microsoft.

Desktop is essential to true multitask computing.

Again, without the ability to have some way of making apps be almost any size feasible (like we do have in most desktop apps), that true multitasking will disappear, we will be back where we started 20 years ago. How simply stupid is that?

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Yes, that's my understanding. Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro runs both RT and Win32. As I mentioned, when all software is written in the Metro/Modern RT interface the desktop will go bye bye. So will Win32 and x86 processors. At least in mobile devices. To me it boils down to a lower end processor eating up less battery. So it's about the battery if we choose to be more mobile. Isn't this the age we have arrived at? Why would I want to sit behind my PC when I could be outside enjoying nature as well? I am more a part of nature than a machine. I do not desire a machine to control me. I want to control it.

Don't forget what Win32 stands for. It simply cannot be removed this soon because a lot of software is based on it.
I think even 32bit metro apps rely on Win32 on the PC.

Take a drink. Take a drive. Go out and see what you can find.

In the Summertime, right?

Thanks for this and your next post.

I'm not learned in computer language or writing, so I won't pretend. It's like physics. Although I'm interested in it, I won't totally understand it until I learn the mathematics behind it. I can only get a glimpse of what it is. I'm trying to understand is all I can say.

Do you write code?

Yes, In the Summertime by Mungo Jerry.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Thanks, guys. Does anyone here write code?

 

[rmeigs]

Desktop is essential to true multitask computing

Absolutely agree. Desktop functionality as we have in Win7/8 is essential to do my daily work. There is simply no efficient method to do it in Metro as it exists today. I can't believe MSFT would be so stupid as to eliminate the desktop.

 

[Mustang]

Can't understand why those users who simply want to use Windows like they are used to using on "classical desktops" just can't be satisfied by staying with Windows 7 since that OS seems to provide everything users of the desktop seem to want

Yeah would love to Jimbo if they provided the kernel improvements in W8 to Win7 in SP2.

As to remove the desktop: Sorry! Ethernet joke of the century!

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
The last few posts obviously haven't understood what I've been saying.

What I'm trying to say is that "Classical applications" should be able to be run from something like a Start screen IN WINDOWED MODE WITHOUT NEEDING A SEPARATE DESKTOP APPLICATION. The task bar on the Start should be improved to perform as a quick launch bar and the CHARMS bar should allow the user to add customized toolbars so a user running classical desktop applications could run exactly as they do now but WITHOUT having to use or even see the old Desktop.

Multi monitors still no problem either as the Windows + P keyboard short cut handles this already without needing a utility to switch / use different monitors.

Even the simple Programs Taskbar provides a decently similar Menu function to the old W7 start Menu and IMO these toolbars are a lot more useful than the old style menu since you can group your favourite and most used apps and of course the Windows + X button throws up a nice little menu of all the system functions you might want like Control panel etc etc.

Screenshot enc of the programs toolbar with its menu.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[DooRules]

You really should just stop posting silly things about desktops bud, you do yourself no favours at all.

Just stick to your laptops and similar devices.

 

[jimbo45]

You really should just stop posting silly things about desktops bud, you do yourself no favours at all.

Just stick to your laptops and similar devices.

Can't see what's stupid about this at all -- the planet is moving on from old desktops -- for those that want last century's devices W7 works fine and will be around until 2020 -- I am looking for a Modern OS which is geared to the NEW hardware such as 3-D, Virtual reality, Holographic systems etc and not have to be hampered by having to work as "Two different Os'es".

Cheers
jimbo

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Hi there
The last few posts obviously haven't understood what I've been saying.

What I'm trying to say is that "Classical applications" should be able to be run from something like a Start screen IN WINDOWED MODE WITHOUT NEEDING A SEPARATE DESKTOP APPLICATION. The task bar on the Start should be improved to perform as a quick launch bar and the CHARMS bar should allow the user to add customized toolbars so a user running classical desktop applications could run exactly as they do now but WITHOUT having to use or even see the old Desktop.

Multi monitors still no problem either as the Windows + P keyboard short cut handles this already without needing a utility to switch / use different monitors.

Even the simple Programs Taskbar provides a decently similar Menu function to the old W7 start Menu and IMO these toolbars are a lot more useful than the old style menu since you can group your favourite and most used apps and of course the Windows + X button throws up a nice little menu of all the system functions you might want like Control panel etc etc.

Screenshot enc of the programs toolbar with its menu.

Cheers
jimbo

Although I wouldn't use this for I like the Start Screen, but I agree this is a lot better than the old Start Menu. Anything but that ridiculous thing!

 

[chrisa]

As a couple of other posters have alluded, it's really an all or nothing deal relative to desktop support. Either they should support it, for real, or they not. If all MS did, in addition to leaving off the start menu on the desktop, was to leave off the Metro app that gets you to the desktop, then you'd have a mutiny over that omission as well I would expect. It would, in fact, be worse since the ability to "hit enter at the Metro screen to go to the desktop" has been an acceptable operating procedure for some users. If they made Windows 8 exclusively Metro, they'd have lost all the users who have apps they want or need that don't specifically run under Metro, which is quite a large number currently. That gets us back to what someone else had posited some time ago: they probably would have reduced the objections if they had just put the desktop start menu in there in the first place.

Just because you can or cannot get to the desktop or can or cannot run certain desktop applications, does not mean its the same thing. Having full third-party support means keeping the ability to load a lot of DLL's and API's that can be pitched overboard when running off ARM. That they managed to get Office to run only means that they were able to support the DLL's that Office specifically uses.

I do certainly agree that the desktop should go, especially if they put out a 7" Mini version. Strip it down to just the apps. If you want Office support, either use the stripped down App Versions, or go with the 10" Pro for the full versions. The 7" should be for specific small tasks that you want to do, just like the iPad. If you want the whole smash, get a Pro. The difference between the two is added mobility. If you need a grocery list you can make and take to the store with you... Mini. If you want to email someone from the store.. mini. If you need to take your work on the road, go Pro. There are purposes for either form factor.

I would also drop the keyboard and any unnecessary port support on the Mini. Completely strip it down and simply come up with an elegant design at 7" that simply runs the apps at a price that rivals the iPad mini and distinguishes it greatly from the Pro.

 

[Hopachi]

Thanks, guys. Does anyone here write code?

You're welcome about the previous post.

Yes I do write some code.
I'm no expert but I've seen some and done some coding. C++, Java and C# are some languages used here.