W8 could be better by REMOVING the desktop APP

[jimbo45]

LOL.

Jimbo, there might one or two slight flaws in your idea.

Hi there -- probably true -- I was just throwing around some ideas -- hopefully most are good but I'm no computer OS designer so some might be impracticable.

I just like the idea of some of the modern hardware which really do need a new OS -- and can't understand why those users who simply want to use Windows like they are used to using on "classical desktops" just can't be satisfied by staying with Windows 7 since that OS seems to provide everything users of the desktop seem to want and let W8 (and future OS'es) try to play out on the new gear that people are using in droves.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

... and let W8 (and future OS'es) try to play out on the new gear that people are using in droves.

I assume you mean Apple and Android.

 

[alphanumeric]

I'd be fine with that as long as they bake some multi monitor support into Metro. Windows RT comes close but even it has a Desktop. .

rt has a desktop but not the same as 8pro will have on a Surface tablet


this is a copy past from a google search
Windows RT vs Windows 8: interface

Both Windows RT and Windows 8 run the new Metro interface, but Windows 8 can also drop down to the traditional Desktop for older apps. Windows RT can't in the same way: while it does have the old Windows Desktop for some of Microsoft's own apps, the desktop won't be available to third-party software.
from here .
Windows 8 vs Windows RT: what's the difference? | News | TechRadar

Yeah, on the RT device you can't install any of your current x86 classic Windows desktop programs. All you'll get is a "this app is not supported..." message when you try and install or run something codded for the x86 platform. Your limited to the preinstalled "Microsoft" desktop programs and utilities like device manger and control panel etc. The Office RT that's been recoded and included runs from there. You can't install your regular off the shelf Microsoft Office. The Surface Pro runs 8 Pro and has full desktop access just like any PC running 8 Pro. Metro is still one screen only full screen only on both devices though.

 

[Hopachi]

I've found these days now I rarely ever SEE the standard desktop any more -- I use customised toolbars and find I'm actually working BETTER than I was with W7.

But if the toolbars are not on the standard desktop/taskbar then where are they?

Hi there
perhaps I expressed myself badly -- excuses.

What I meant was that I rarely go into the desktop application directly or launch a program from it any more -- I access the Toolbar from the bottom of the screen (Taskbar) or start my first application from the Start screen rather than go into the desktop and THEN start an application.

If I could get the toolbar top display on the CHARMS bar then my need for a "Classic Desktop" would 100% disappear.
Hope that clears it up. You should be able to see what I'm trying to do even if it's not feasible currently.

Cheers
jimbo

Yes that's well explained, thanks.

True, that solves it. I kind of made a bad habit in clicking the Desktop first, because all I need is already pinned, so then I go back to Start (saying to myself: oh I forgot, it was already pinned).

Sorry I didn't kept in mind that the taskbar is visible on Start, with some tweaks/settings, that's why I was referring to the taskbar on Desktop.

Cheers
Hopachi

 

[elbmek]

If windows removed its desktop I would never but another copy

 

[cherryblue]

errrrr!

Hi there
After HATING W8 at first and then getting to grips with it -- quite a big learning process -- not in using windows itself but re-arranging working style and conveniently arranging applications -- I actually like it a lot now and see where Ms was trying to go with this one.

However what I reckon is where they made a big boo boo was to actually provide the DESKTOP environment -- this has the effect of getting 100,000's of people (or millions of people) to attempt to replicate Windows 7 in every sort of way causing a lot of pent up anger and frustration for people who can't get it to work in the same way that they always have.

Now had they REMOVED the desktop from the outset and REALLY sold Windows as a BRAND NEW WINDOWS a lot more would have tried it - some would like it - some not but there really couldn't have been the backlash as it is a BRAND NEW WINDOWS.

In order to remove the desktop and still run traditional desktop applications easily would simply require very minor modifications to the current Windows 8.

1) From the std Metro start screen run traditional applications in default WINDOWED mode -- this allows concurrent windows etc -- most users of traditional desktop applications -- especially when they have large or multiple monitors rarelr run in Full screen only.

2) Allow traditional apps to have "Expanding tiles" -- for example if I click in say Ms Office the tile would expand to show say EXCEL / POWERPOINT etc.

3) To start applications from Existing applications -- say I'm in EXCEL and want to start Photoshop then we need to allow toolbars to be visible in the Charms area or on the bottom of the Window of the running applications in windowed mode. (Note we need to do this as we wouldn't have the desktop environment any more to start new applications).

4) Metro applications should be able to be windowed and made easier to run when using multiple monitors -- full screen is fine for small screens / tablets / mobile phones but very wasteful on large screens or multiple monitors.

6) The whole functionality of using multiple monitors could be considerably improved.

I've found these days now I rarely ever SEE the standard desktop any more -- I use customised toolbars and find I'm actually working BETTER than I was with W7.

Ms made the big error by making W8 to some extent to look like W7 with a basic feature missing -- the Menu which was an integral part of W7-- and traditional Windows. Had W8 been designed as a NEW WINDOWS somewhat on the lines I've suggested there would be some learning curve but 90% of the Vitriol currently being hurled at W8 would probably never have existed.

I really hope W9 (or the next iteration of Windows will have enough courage to remove the desktop completely.

(I'm still looking for a method in the current W8 to add a toolbar to the charms bar -- but I think this is a bit beyond my skill set -- somebody though might be able to do it).


Cheers
jimbo

Whilst I DO get where you are going with this and don't get me wrong I'm a totally converted windows 8 fan-girl - I strongly disagree with the removal of the desktop. For a start not everything work related can be done with apps and if that's your preference then you should go with RT.

I also feel that many people are not giving windows 8 a chance and are trying desperately to replicate windows 7 in windows 8 but I think taking away the start button was enough to get me discovering all the shortcuts and new and exciting things that win 8 has to offer. I LOVE that I have 2 interfaces, one for work and one for play and I have found that I can do everything faster and more efficiently than I ever could with previous windows versions. I also love the new streamlined IE browser but there are times when I need the functionality of a regular browser and I can just flip over to the desktop for that.

The start screen is fabulous for tablets but for the desktop/laptop its just not sufficient on its own, can you imagine entire offices using what is effectively a Microsoft ipad to do a days work on? I LOVE the start screen but if the desktop was removed I wouldn't be happy at all. You don't have to have the desktop removed to realise the potential of windows 8 you just have to have fun with it, explore it and fall in love with it like the old days of computing when each new piece of software was an exciting revelation - I haven't felt this way about Windows/computers/Microsoft/software/operating systems in general since the first time I installed Linux!

 

[cherryblue]

.

I'd be fine with that as long as they bake some multi monitor support into Metro. Windows RT comes close but even it has a Desktop. You can't do much of anything on it aside from the default leftovers that haven't been recoded entirely for Metro. Control panel, msconfog etc. Windows 8 always felt half done to me, some kind of transition OS with a little of this and a little of that. A dedicated tablet OS would be fine with me, just don't take my Windows 7 desktop away from me.

I think you give people less credit than they deserve, I know exactly what my smart phone can do but I would HATE to do a days work on it! As for surface pro you do realise you can't adjust the viewing angle don't you? also one of the keyboards available is effectively a shirt card - I challenge you to work on this in the office 9-5 for 7 days and then come back and let us know if you feel the same way!

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Welcome to EightForums, cherryblue. It's good to see a "fan-girl" aboard.

 

[Coke Robot]

It might actually be possible to do that, although it would take a lot of coding and possible head ache to get third party programs working correctly, specifically Desktop apps to work in a modern environment. There would need to be a removal of window chrome, and just do a simple colored outline of the app, but they wouldn't be so much overlap but tile though.

 

[alphanumeric]

I'd be fine with that as long as they bake some multi monitor support into Metro. Windows RT comes close but even it has a Desktop. You can't do much of anything on it aside from the default leftovers that haven't been recoded entirely for Metro. Control panel, msconfog etc. Windows 8 always felt half done to me, some kind of transition OS with a little of this and a little of that. A dedicated tablet OS would be fine with me, just don't take my Windows 7 desktop away from me.

I think you give people less credit than they deserve, I know exactly what my smart phone can do but I would HATE to do a days work on it! As for surface pro you do realise you can't adjust the viewing angle don't you? also one of the keyboards available is effectively a shirt card - I challenge you to work on this in the office 9-5 for 7 days and then come back and let us know if you feel the same way!

Um, who is that comment directed at? Me or Jimbo?

 

[cherryblue]

I think you give people less credit than they deserve, I know exactly what my smart phone can do but I would HATE to do a days work on it! As for surface pro you do realise you can't adjust the viewing angle don't you? also one of the keyboards available is effectively a shirt card - I challenge you to work on this in the office 9-5 for 7 days and then come back and let us know if you feel the same way!

Um, who is that comment directed at? Me or Jimbo?

lol sorry it was directed at the OP Jimbo, in my defense I was still bleary eyed this morning when I wrote that!

 

[cherryblue]

Welcome to EightForums, cherryblue. It's good to see a "fan-girl" aboard.

Thanks!

 

[alphanumeric]

Um, who is that comment directed at? Me or Jimbo?

lol sorry it was directed at the OP Jimbo, in my defense I was still bleary eyed this morning when I wrote that!

Not a problem, I've been there done that. I just wanted to confirm my suspicion before I responded any further.

 

[Hopachi]

The Desktop.....

..... has to stay....

one way or another. (at least for the fans)

But I'm curious how/if they'll completely replace it in the future.

 

[Ex_Brit]

The Desktop.....

..... has to stay....

one way or another. (at least for the fans)

But I'm curious how/if they'll completely replace it in the future.

So am I. The desktop was/is/always will be...my work area.

Not to mention that I don't wish to be constantly staring at apps. If I wanted that I'd be using a phone.

I guess I use my desktop as a place of refuge in a way..... ;-)

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Imagine this scenario.

At work at your desk is a large monitor (24 inch screen) and a proper keyboard and mouse -- but NO actual laptop / desktop box visible.

You logon to your company network as you always have --it would have exactly the same applications as you normally use.

Now you can continue working. -- You wouldn't even KNOW on what device your work was running on would you -- and you probably wouldn't care either. In fact it would be more secure as well as you wouldn't have all the security problems of corporate computers losing data by people plugging in their own USB devices etc.

What I was essentially saying is that there is NO reason why a future mobile phone type device couldn't work like this or even a tablet.

You wouldn't be looking at a small tablet / mobile phone screen or using the touch keyboard for hours at a time --if you thought that you've mis-understood the basic post.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[alphanumeric]

@Jimbo, It sounds good, and may work, with a bit of modifications to Windows 8. I think Windows 8 dropped the ball as far as Metro goes. Who knows, maybe Windows Blue will pick it up again. Like I said earlier, if they fix that Metro one screen only full screen only lock in you may actually be able to get some productive computing done. So Jimbo, can you do all your work related duties from Metro only without ever using a Desktop Program? I don't think you can but I'm curious as to how close you think you might be to that goal.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
@alphanumeric
I know there's still problems with W8 -- but it's a FIRST Iteration only.


Ms is looking at all sorts of NEW hardware where the desktop isn't actually that important any more -- I know it's hard for people to get used to this idea after several decades of a "Classical computing experience".

However to get an idea where future technology is leading have a look at my posts in the thread about Holography in the living room. As I said in that post Ms is now beginning to become involved with all this type of hardware and have to design software for it and I think Ms will become the exciting futuristic company that IBM used to be in the late 1960's to early 1980's.

http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/21770-windows-871-holodeck-living-room.html

Cheers
jimbo

 

[woot332]

If M$ will ditch the desktop in future they might as well ditch legacy win32 api too.
Forcing developers to develop windows store apps only and either distibute apps in store or sideloading.
And rewrite the rest of the OS making it fully "metro" or whatever they call it now lol.
That been said im not a windows 8 hater in fact I like it.

 

[alphanumeric]

If M$ will ditch the desktop in future they might as well ditch legacy win32 api too.
Forcing developers to develop windows store apps only and either distibute apps in store or sideloading.
And rewrite the rest of the OS making it fully "metro" or whatever they call it now lol.
That been said im not a windows 8 hater in fact I like it.

The interface formally know as Metro? Maybe they can get the artist formerly known as Prince to do a commercial?

Windows RT devices are effectively already there. It's metro apps only. There is a hack to get around that restriction, but you would have to code your program to run in the RT (ARM) desktop environment. Right now only Microsoft certified programs like Office RT will run there. I suspect that there aren't to many people interested in programing desktop programs for RT devices. Drivers for hardware may be an exception, but I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other.