Munich, Germany: Linux was disaster, back to Windows

Back in 2004, Munich, Germany decided that they were going to switch to Linux (specifically, LiMux) as their primary operating system and drop Microsoft's Windows operating system. At the time, the decision was said to be cheaper, more reliable and politically correct for the city and this would be the on the same scale as the Berlin Wall falling for politics but for IT.

Read more at: Munich, Germany realizes that deploying Linux was a disaster, going back to Windows - Neowin

 

[pparks1]

I got a 10" Windows 8.1 with a quad core, SSD, HDMI, USB3, with 11hours battery life, great touchpad and 2lbs for $329. Who needs Apple.

What exactly are you using?

 

[lehnerus2000]

I don't like Thunderbird or evolution - in fact IMO the best email client ever for individuals was probably OUTLOOK EXPRESS which disappeared with Windows XP --now if somebody could come up with a decent clone of that I WOULD use it.

Agreed.

Outlook Express is probably better than the two programs I mentioned earlier.
"Lost Technology of the Ancients."

@pparks1 - Nothing wrong with Apple -- apart from a) it's expensive and b) everything is proprietary -- even the hardware connections like USB etc. (I believe they've made the hardware a bit more compatible now so you can hook up standard USB devices - but it took them a long time !!. - Also I don't like the Apple store or "ICHOONES" either). The Macbook though works fine - I wouldn't have trouble using it - I just wouldn't BUY one though.

I've been using a Mac All-in-One for the past few weeks (at TAFE).

It hasn't impressed me with its proclaimed ease of use (I'm still floundering helplessly).
It doesn't seem to be particularly fast either.

How do you determine which programs are open if you can't see the program windows?

Safari is horrible.

The disembodied menus are a joke.
If I close a program, the menu remains open.

When I log in, it automatically starts 2 copies of PowerPoint and no one can tell me how to stop it.

After using Windows for >15 years I guess it is to be expected.
At this point I'd have to say that most Linux Distros are easier to use.

 

[pparks1]

It hasn't impressed me with its proclaimed ease of use (I'm still floundering helplessly).

Yeah, it's certainly a learning experience, especially coming from a long history of Windows. I think a big difference is that with Windows, most Windows users want to know what's going on behind the scene and perform some type of maintenance. Apple users just expect all is well, and don't bother with any behind the scenes stuff. So, I think as Windows users we look for things that just aren't easily found.

What I like best about the Mac, is the fact that it goes to sleep and wakes up instantly from sleep. That works fantastic for my home use. I grab my laptop, flip it open, browse a few forums, close the lid and go onto other things. This laptop is fantastic for that. It wakes up and sleeps as fast as my mobile phone.

do you determine which programs are open if you can't see the program windows?

They will have little underline markers on the dock icons, which indicate they are open. Also, you can hit command-tab and it will show you everything that is running.

Sarai is horrible.

I've had to come to grips with using it. I put Chrome on here, and it works just fine, but it really sucks down the battery compared to Safari. I have a plugin for Safari that is allowing me to share my Google bookmarks and keep them synced, so that solves my biggest concern.

I close a program, the menu remains open.

Then you aren't closing the program, but simply minimizing it. If you hit Command+Q, it will quit and the menu will go away.

I log in, it automatically starts 2 copies of PowerPoint and no one can tell me how to stop it.

Well, if it's working normally, it's in System Preferences, Users, and the Login items tab. But just like Windows, it's possible something has gone wrong and is launching 2 copies. I'm sure somebody with some Unix/Linux experience could look into this and get it sorted for you...since behind the scenes it's pretty much Linux/Unix underneath.

using Windows for >15 years I guess it is to be expected.

Yeah, it took me a number of months to become proficient. I bought the MacBook Pro to learn about the Apple ecosystem. We have more Apple devices hitting my place of employment and I was getting tired of saying, "Yeah, sorry, I don't know". So, since I was in need of a new personal laptop at home, I thought that I would give the MacBook Pro a shot.


Thus far, pretty happy with my purchase. But in no way have I become an Apple diehard. I'm not even remotely close to being sold on Apple as my only choice. If I had to pick 1 and only 1 computer right now, I'd go with a PC running Windows.

I think for basic users, it's a compelling unit. It does't crash much (mine hasn't yet). It comes with Time Machine, which makes backups and restores a piece of cake. It's far less impacted by Viruses and Malware. If you live near an Apple store, getting hands on support is really easy. And in the event that the whole thing goes south, it's incredibly easy to boot into restore mode and get your OS reinstalled. You don't even need media, you don't need license keys and you don't have to bother with activation.

 

[basher]

How do you determine which programs are open if you can't see the program windows?

Safari is horrible.

The disembodied menus are a joke.
If I close a program, the menu remains open.

When I log in, it automatically starts 2 copies of PowerPoint and no one can tell me how to stop it.

After using Windows for >15 years I guess it is to be expected.
At this point I'd have to say that most Linux Distros are easier to use.

Well, apple "logic" is very dumb - close button doent close the program, but only the window, program still is opened, so you must go to menu and press exit manually, or exit program with keyboard shortcuts - macs are tied to using keyboard shortcuts much more than linux or windows.

Safari isnt very bad, considering the fact, that other browsers are trash for mac - every other browser performs really bad on mac, like devs doesnt give sh1t about apple You cant even compare firefox or chrome for linux/windows vs mac ...

About powerpoint, somewhere in startup options must be added powerpoint.

And yes, macs need more maintenance than linux or windows, forget all the fake things that fanboys told you.

 

[pparks1]

I own a Mac, I'm not having to do any maintenance. No virus scans, no malware scans, nothing. Fan boys haven't told me anything.

 

[Lensman]

Stop me if I am wrong, but doesn't this sound like the old Ford vs. GM vs. Chrysler argument? Each person has their preferences and each 'vehicle' has it's good and bad points.

Where computers are concerned, I really liked my 5150 running DOS 5.0 and DOS shell. What a beast it was. Now, I must have used 60 distros of Linux, I have a G5 with Leopard in the outer office and I normally use Win 7 and Win 8.1 on a daily basis. What have I learned? I like KDE in Linux, I like Windows and I am OK with Apple.

Back on topic, when you deal with government, think politics, not logic.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

I can't say I've had ANY problems using Apple software or their machines - however I actually don't think it's as intuitive as people say it is. I agree Apple works "Straight out of the box" but often it's a bit of a pain adding non Apple software -- for example adding VMware or parallels to bring up a Windows VM on it (even with Apple you can't avoid dealing with Windows in most work places).

I find Linux on the whole the best solution these days on a decent PC with various Windows VM's including W8.1. However I agree that Linux isn't intuitive either and for about 90% of typical people out there Windows is (and with good reason) the system of choice.

You'll find loads of people who have dabbled with Linux for a while but invariably go back to Windows. However THESE days Linux is infinitely more stable, has Plug and Play, is more configurable and is more secure - a non root user for example would find it virtually impossible to "Break" the system.

What Linux needs above anything else for world wide desk adoption is for their to be some sort of commonality in distribution maintenance, software updates and release dates. At the moment it's a Pot stew of many distributions all with their own flavours of software maintenance (.RPM, .DEB,.GZ etc) and above all a DECENT OFFICE package which is at least as good as Ms's offering.

Some partial decent clones are emerging but none as yet come anywhere near the TOTAL functionality of Office as used in a workplace. Some parts are fine for home users but aren't yet ready for Enterprise use.

And as always with Linux - therein lies the rub -- as a lot of it is OPENSOURCE development will often be done in a "haphazard" manner -- rather like the old image of a greying wizened mad inventor tinkering in his garden shed. Great for us as individuals but you can't run a serious corporation on this type of maintenance.

Servers are a different proposition but there are only TWO serious players out there - RED HAT and SUSE/NOVELL so server maintenance isn't really an issue.

BTW Thanks to BOTH of these corporations for supplying a lot of support and help to their open source developers --maybe Ms should learn from these companies who still make a LOT of money.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[whs]

I got a 10" Windows 8.1 with a quad core, SSD, HDMI, USB3, with 11hours battery life, great touchpad and 2lbs for $329. Who needs Apple.

The forum's greatest shopper!

It was actually a device that the wife wanted for travel. She did not want to have to learn Android (we already had a Nexus 7) and she got immediately used to 8.1.

At first I had my doubts about the small 10" keyboard because she is a professional typist typing at high speed - quite the opposite to my 2 finger eagle search typing. But after a couple of days she mastered that too.

Now she is also often using it at the kitchen table at home. The long battery life sure helps.

I did not think I could use it because of my 40% eye vision and the small screen. But in reality I can use it quite well - with my reading glasses.

 

[Fredledingue]

OUTLOOK EXPRESS which disappeared with Windows XP

It became Windows Mail and it's pretty much the same concept.

---

CountMike: That's the exact opposite of my experience, but that's fine. Of course a mail client depends on the volume of useless datas spammers send to you (like companies sending their entire pdf catalog twice a week) but with a quiet stiff e-mail blocker list, I avoid most of it.

---

Mac, for the rare case I used it, looked very similar in use to Windows. If you are a good Windows geek, jumping head first into Mac shouldn't be a problem.

 

[CountMike]

OUTLOOK EXPRESS which disappeared with Windows XP

It became Windows Mail and it's pretty much the same concept.

---

CountMike: That's the exact opposite of my experience, but that's fine. Of course a mail client depends on the volume of useless datas spammers send to you (like companies sending their entire pdf catalog twice a week) but with a quiet stiff e-mail blocker list, I avoid most of it.

---

Mac, for the rare case I used it, looked very similar in use to Windows. If you are a good Windows geek, jumping head first into Mac shouldn't be a problem.

I don't get it, what's the difference if i read same message in same gmail account thru browser or thru Outlook ?. Let's say I read the message about this thread thru FF, same message would be in Outlook but would have to be downloaded to my disk first.

 

[jimbo45]

OUTLOOK EXPRESS which disappeared with Windows XP

It became Windows Mail and it's pretty much the same concept.

---

CountMike: That's the exact opposite of my experience, but that's fine. Of course a mail client depends on the volume of useless datas spammers send to you (like companies sending their entire pdf catalog twice a week) but with a quiet stiff e-mail blocker list, I avoid most of it.

---

Mac, for the rare case I used it, looked very similar in use to Windows. If you are a good Windows geek, jumping head first into Mac shouldn't be a problem.

I don't get it, what's the difference if i read same message in same gmail account thru browser or thru Outlook ?. Let's say I read the message about this thread thru FF, same message would be in Outlook but would have to be downloaded to my disk first.

Hi there @Count Mike

Haven't you ever heard of IMAP so you can leave stuff on the server -- actually IMAP is good too as it easily integrates with mail on mobile phones too. Imap also means you can copy stuff to local files on SEVERAL computers too if you use more than one -- quite handy for Work and home machines accessing same email servers.

You can then move / copy stuff to local folders if you want to use mail off line.


With POP3 if you copy stuff to a local machine that's it gone from the server and therefore not accessible to other machines.


Webmail clients as I pointed out are a big security risk for businesses since you

a) have to use a browser,
b) need uncontrolled access to the Internet depending on who your email client is with and
c) by passes all the company security protocols by not using their email servers -- apart from the hideous performance of these clients and their usual pages of ads as well.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

Thanks for that info pparks1 and basher.

I have to use a Mac again today (hopefully I'll remember these tips).

The "Close" button not closing items is really intuitive.

 

[Coke Robot]

I got a 10" Windows 8.1 with a quad core, SSD, HDMI, USB3, with 11hours battery life, great touchpad and 2lbs for $329. Who needs Apple.

The forum's greatest shopper!

Aw yeah!

 

[Coke Robot]

I got a 10" Windows 8.1 with a quad core, SSD, HDMI, USB3, with 11hours battery life, great touchpad and 2lbs for $329. Who needs Apple.

What exactly are you using?

If I can speak for whs, I think he has the ASUS T100 Transformer Book. I've had the experience of deploying a custom Windows image onto that little tablet, it's quite a lovely little device.

Intel quad core Atom processor, 64 gig SSD, USB 3, I think microSD, HDMI output, and certain models of the Transformer have an option for a 500 gig hard drive in the keyboard dock. A friend of mine got the T100 on sale for about $230. Even the touchpad and its software are quite excellent on it as well. I do enjoy ASUS' touchpad driver software as it really changes up the Windows 8 experience a touch.

Who needs apple indeed?

 

[pparks1]

^ If that IS what he has, the internal storage is not SSD. It's EMMC flash memory.

It's a solid little device for $329...but it's not a performance oriented machine in any way. It's a quad core atom, only has 2GB of RAM, the screen is only 1386x768, and as stated above it's not SSD, but rather EMMC...which clocks in around the same speed as mechanical drives as far as throughput, but faster access to files.

As is the case, in many cases, we aren't comparing the same things.

 

[Coke Robot]

^ If that IS what he has, the internal storage is not SSD. It's EMMC flash memory.

It's a solid little device for $329...but it's not a performance oriented machine in any way. It's a quad core atom, only has 2GB of RAM, the screen is only 1386x768, and as stated above it's not SSD, but rather EMMC...which clocks in around the same speed as mechanical drives as far as throughput, but faster access to files.

As is the case, in many cases, we aren't comparing the same things.

I believe it's what whs has, or something in the same nature because I remember it is an ASUS Transformer book.

But yes, different devices, different usages, different things. It's definitely not a performance device, but that's not its intended use; much like how a mac is typically an expensive facebook machine....

 

[HippsieGypsie]

It was actually a device that the wife wanted for travel. She did not want to have to learn Android (we already had a Nexus 7) and she got immediately used to 8.1.

Sounds like you married a smart woman there, whs! And a W8 fangurl as well!

At first I had my doubts about the small 10" keyboard because she is a professional typist typing at high speed - quite the opposite to my 2 finger eagle search typing. But after a couple of days she mastered that too.

One of the things I regretted in life is dropping out of typing class a few weeks in as a high school freshman thinking I'd never use it. "That's secretarial sissy stuff!" Of course that was before the PC and liberation movements. Boy, was I wrong! Now I'm what I call a chicken typist pecking with two fingers on the keyboard.

Now she is also often using it at the kitchen table at home. The long battery life sure helps.

Is this so she leaves you alone longer?

I did not think I could use it because of my 40% eye vision and the small screen. But in reality I can use it quite well - with my reading glasses.

Must have high rez? Which model is it? I really enjoy my Lumia 1520 @ 1080x1920.

BTW, how is that Lumia working out for you? Did you get the 8.1 update yet?

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Never had an Apple product, so I wouldn't know, but a couple of new members came on claiming that W8.x is similar in a lot of ways. I kind of grasped what they explained.

Not sure about the cost of iStuff, but I do know that's their main corporate revenue. With Google it's advertising via surfing data collection. MS seems to be more diversified and becoming more so.

 

[jimbo45]

It was actually a device that the wife wanted for travel. She did not want to have to learn Android (we already had a Nexus 7) and she got immediately used to 8.1.

Sounds like you married a smart woman there, whs! And a W8 fangurl as well!

At first I had my doubts about the small 10" keyboard because she is a professional typist typing at high speed - quite the opposite to my 2 finger eagle search typing. But after a couple of days she mastered that too.

One of the things I regretted in life is dropping out of typing class a few weeks in as a high school freshman thinking I'd never use it. "That's secretarial sissy stuff!" Of course that was before the PC and liberation movements. Boy, was I wrong! Now I'm what I call a chicken typist pecking with two fingers on the keyboard.

Now she is also often using it at the kitchen table at home. The long battery life sure helps.

Is this so she leaves you alone longer?

I did not think I could use it because of my 40% eye vision and the small screen. But in reality I can use it quite well - with my reading glasses.

Must have high rez? Which model is it? I really enjoy my Lumia 1520 @ 1080x1920.

BTW, how is that Lumia working out for you? Did you get the 8.1 update yet?

Hi there

After over 30 years of using computers I finally decided to take the plunge and go on a Typing course. I was a Two Finger Eyes on the Keyboard guy all those years -- in spite of the fact I can (according to friends|) play the Piano decently.

Boy was that the most difficult course I've ever been on -- including those on some sophisticated Engineering topics - but believe it or not -- it was well worth it.

We had some standard QWERTY keyboards which didn't have letters on the keys but colours - but after a couple of lessons it started to become OK. I was the OLDEST by far in the class but some of the younger women made it all worth while !!!

Cheers
jimbo

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Lol, Jim! I may just have to do the same.