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Windows 'Threshold' tech preview around late September


HippsieGypsie

It's Gururrrrrr8!
Lilymoor, IL

Posts
13,547
#21
Allow metro apps to run full screen as they do now
The ability to keep the start screen as it is now

keep these options and I will be happy
I agree, except the need to allow apps to multi-window. I don't think they'll window on the desktop as Mary Jo forecasts. I think they'll window on what I will call the new "Modern/Metro Desktop environment" as we really have now. They introduced the three sizes of tiles. Snapping might be something like that. Open an app and snap it both vertically as it does now and an added feature of then snapping horizontally, so therefore windowing. The amount of windows will be determined by the screen or monitor size.

Make no mistake that eventually the desktop app/portal will disappear. Office will be released soon in Modern/Metro, which is a huge seller for them. They already released OneNote in Modern/Metro, of which I totally use now. It can be found in the Store. The radial menus is a great feature in that. OneNote Help

Other production apps will follow eventually.

A platform of OSs to run across multiple devices for a similar, familiar experience, including desktop PCs. That seems to be their goal. I think that's what they'll pursue.


[video=youtube;mfYkhQblYjY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfYkhQblYjY[/video]
 

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paulsalter

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278
#22
Make no mistake that eventually the desktop app/portal will disappear. Office will be released soon in Modern/Metro, which is a huge seller for them. They already released OneNote in Modern/Metro, of which I totally use now. It can be found in the Store. The radial menus is a great feature in that. OneNote Help
I don't use OneNote a great deal, but I do agree that this is a very good metro app

If we assume that apps will run in a resizable window on the desktop in windows 9 (as we have seen rumours of)

What advantage from a users point of view would there be between using the metro onenote or the original onenote program

This is what I am struggling to get my head around, why use a metro app instead of a desktop program if both run on the desktop

Cheers

ps, unrelated but just noticed, how did I become a power user?
 

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Nuccii

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#23

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Burgurne

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#25
If we assume that apps will run in a resizable window on the desktop in windows 9 (as we have seen rumours of)

What advantage from a users point of view would there be between using the metro onenote or the original onenote program

This is what I am struggling to get my head around, why use a metro app instead of a desktop program if both run on the desktop

Cheers
That goes for every app I have seen. Why use an app on the desktop, when a "normal" prgram can do the same (or more)?
For me Windows 9 will be a winner if Metro is absolutely gone from my PC (i.e. maybe disabled uder install, or disabled after install), a little more eyecandy like windows 7, tweakable as windows 7 and the speed from windows 8 :)
 

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HippsieGypsie

It's Gururrrrrr8!
Lilymoor, IL

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13,547
#26
Congratulations on the Power User badge, paulsalter. :thumb:

I use OneNote on my 8.1 Lumia 1520 and 8.1 tower a lot. It syncs. I may start a post waiting for my dentist appointment and finish it on my tower when I get home. Could I configure apps and cloud to do that with a Android and my tower? Sure, but I'm easing up time for other things, it's free via MS, and less chance of it breaking. The commoners and businesses will go for it too as I'll explain below. Here is a snip of OneNote with the radial menu I wanted to post before.

Radial Menu OneNote App Snip.PNG

Like I stated, the Store apps won't run on the Win32 desktop. There's a new one in town called the Modern/Metro Desktop environment. Mine here is green > My theme color. The Win32 desktop app/portal is open and in the App Switcher.

Screenshot (58).png


Reasons to use:

1. Resources. Store apps use far less resources than Win32 apps. When not in use after a time they go into a hibernation mode. Win32 apps do not, therefore using resources that other apps could use. Not all people can afford big rigs that we see so many here have, nor would they want one. Same with businesses. Who needs all that power besides gamers and some scientists? Who needs i7 with 8GBs of RAM at a high cost? Certainly not the commoners or businesses.

How about a business running 50, 100, 500, 1K of workstations? Savings on costs of computers, electricity, and IT. It's not just the UI MS is introducing. It's a platform of OSs that are far easier and less costly to manage.

Task Manager Snip.PNG

2. Safety. Walled garden systems are far safer, for we sit behind walls of accounts and servers. Just one example: http://www.eightforums.com/windows-8-news/52122-windows-phone-8-1-smartphone-choice-business.html

3. Apps working in conjunction via charms such as the Mail, People (contacts), Photos (pics), Calendar, Bing apps, and others. The OSasaurs don't know this for they really never learned the system, but the apps are much more efficient in transferring/sharing data than the desktop environment. Can I prove that? No. One has to learn it to understand that point.

4. Upgrading apps. Every time I upgraded to a new version of a Win32 app (including MS brand) I had to reconfigure all over again. Enter in personal data, configurations, etc. Not so with Store apps. I've watched Store apps upgrade for the last two years and never have to do a thing.

This doesn't have to do with apps, but with services > Even upgrading from 8 to 8.1, apps followed along. Start Screen and Store apps exactly the same. Again, not so with legacy apps. How easy is this for the commoners and businesses? I remember having to hard reset my Droid X2. Sure, contacts and calendar were backed up via a Google account, but that was it. I spent hours getting it back to where it was. And then, how about when I by a new Android device? Do it all over again. Not so with my WP8. Upgraded to 8.1 without much trouble. Again, Start Screen and apps exactly the same. I had to uninstall and reinstall 2 apps because the live tiles wouldn't refresh. If I need to buy a new phone, it will all tag along.

5. Side loading of line of business (LOB) apps: Sideloading Windows 8 Store AppsWindows for IT Pros

6. When I install an app, whether bought or free, it stays mine and tags along in my MS account. I pay one price and use it on as many devices I want. This cuts down on piracy. Every company has a right to protect their products. MS didn't start software stores > The other two did. They're just following suit. It's no different than a company that places armed guards around a warehouse. And yes, they make money off the apps, probably to offset the overhead of the Store. There's costs of labor and equipment.

7. Last, but not least > With Store apps come live tiles: http://www.eightforums.com/general-support/16379-real-quality-boot-time-8-verses-7-a.html

I ask you > Why would I want to use Win32 legacy apps when I get all that?

Here's me saying goodbye to my legacy desktop app/portal when finished with it. Hold WinKey > Press and release period key > Then press down arrow key. Bye bye. :p

Screenshot (59).png
 

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edmscan

New Member
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29
#27
Hate the charms bar .. it never works well on my computer at all and I never use it now. I hope they just make it an option. I hope Windows 9 does not suck.
 

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paulsalter

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#28
@HippsieGypsie, thanks for the congratulations and the details on app usage, i agree with your comments and do like to use some of the apps, sitting here at the moment using metro IE and xbox video pinned to the side watching some tv shows, I know the same can be done on the desktop, but I like the experience of no interruptions and just having on the screen what I am doing

@Burgurne, agreed that my comment does relate to all apps, what would it take to make you use metro apps if they ran on the desktop, if we had for example metro word and desktop word, both had the same features and run in a window, what would ms need to do so that you used the metro version of word instead of the desktop program

metro apps on the desktop is something I am not sure on yet, so interested in hearing others thoughts on why they would/would not use them
 

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CountMike

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#29
That would be just fine if:
1.There was a plethora of good APPs, I couldn't find any I would use instead of desktop program for same thing. Even Skype App has more problems than desktop one. Microsoft Apps are only ones I would consider for now.
2. APPs would have to be able to run in windowed environment, many times I have to open 5 -6 or more windows at a time across 2 monitors, no use for a calculator on half a page, When trying to run spreadsheet for instance and start an metro app everything gets moved to a side and than I have to chase place I was at. APPs (as they are now) don't seem to be well suited for multitasking.
3. Live tiles do not have to be actually tiles, many programs can do same thing. There were live desktop Gadgets before any Live tiles that could do same thing.
I would not argue about Charms bar, if they put something better OK, if not I can live with it, it could be put to good use and an alternative way of doing some things. The only beef I have is with Devices in Charms bar, it should be same as Devices and Printers in Control panel and usable from desktop too instead of in APPs only.
 

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alphanumeric

slightly off center
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#30
If the App displays the same information and is easier to setup why bother messing with the desktop equivalent. The two apps I use run just fine as Apps and there is no real advantage to running the desktop equivalent. Slacker radio and the Weather App. I'm sure there are others. If your running Windows RT you don't have a choice. Also, if your on a tablet, the Apps will often better support a touch screen. Oh, and desktop programs do not have live tiles. Some of us actually like that feature.
 

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#31
Make no mistake that eventually the desktop app/portal will disappear.
Desktop disappear...?? Did I read that right...???

I should think that they have clearly learnt their lesson, and will NOT mess about with our desktop... at least not in our lifetime....
 
Last edited:

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lehnerus2000

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#32
1. Resources. Store apps use far less resources than Win32 apps. When not in use after a time they go into a hibernation mode. Win32 apps do not, therefore using resources that other apps could use. Not all people can afford big rigs that we see so many here have, nor would they want one. Same with businesses. Who needs all that power besides gamers and some scientists? Who needs i7 with 8GBs of RAM at a high cost? Certainly not the commoners or businesses.
That’s because they do less.

Most PCs (even cheap "disposable" ones) come with more than enough resources to handle MS Office anyway.
You only need lots of CPU and RAM for editing images, editing video and running VMs (and possibly games).

2. Safety. Walled garden systems are far safer, for we sit behind walls of accounts and servers.
It is a "single point of failure".
Hackers can potentially access everyone’s devices when they get in.

Linux and Google repositroies have been interfered with and have even hosted malware.

3. Apps working in conjunction via charms such as the Mail, People (contacts), Photos (pics), Calendar, Bing apps, and others. The OSasaurs don't know this for they really never learned the system, but the apps are much more efficient in transferring/sharing data than the desktop environment. Can I prove that? No. One has to learn it to understand that point.
That contradicts your point about safety.

I suspect a lot power users were appalled by the automatic Metro App data sharing (I know I face-palmed when I first read about it).
Especially after MS claimed that gadgets like the CPU monitor were a security menace.

4. Upgrading apps. Every time I upgraded to a new version of a Win32 app (including MS brand) I had to reconfigure all over again. Enter in personal data, configurations, etc. Not so with Store apps. I've watched Store apps upgrade for the last two years and never have to do a thing.
I'd say that mostly applies to MS products ("our customers are all thieving scum").

Most of the software I use remembers the settings I've applied.
I have software that was apparently written for XP, which can't save its settings due to the lock out on the Programs folders.

OTOH, I've been tripped up by VLC's saved settings.

6. When I install an app, whether bought or free, it stays mine and tags along in my MS account. I pay one price and use it on as many devices I want.
"Don't install Chrome and let Google monitor your activities. Allow us to do it for you instead with Metro Apps."

This cuts down on piracy. Every company has a right to protect their products.
Limited functionality cuts down on piracy.
Why would someone pirate Paint, when they could pirate Photoshop instead?

MS didn't start software stores > The other two did. They're just following suit. It's no different than a company that places armed guards around a warehouse. And yes, they make money off the apps, probably to offset the overhead of the Store. There's costs of labor and equipment.
Apple and Google did it specifically to gouge consumers.
It's like DLC for games.

@Burgurne, agreed that my comment does relate to all apps, what would it take to make you use metro apps if they ran on the desktop, if we had for example metro word and desktop word, both had the same features and run in a window, what would ms need to do so that you used the metro version of word instead of the desktop program
Just imagine how awful a Metro version of Adobe Premier Pro would be (the desktop version is horrible enough).
OTOH, if you could daisy chain several tablets together then the Metro version would be easier to use than the desktop version.

If Metro Word was identical to Real Word, phones/tablets would need to come with an "i7 with 8GBs of RAM".
That would defeat one of the claimed benefits of using Metro Apps (e.g. they use less resources).

OTOH, if Metro Word was identical to Real Word and yet was smaller and used less resources, that would tend to indicate that MS was part of a cartel (with hardware makers) whose aim is to force users to buy higher spec equipment.
 

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#33
3. Apps working in conjunction via charms such as the Mail, People (contacts), Photos (pics), Calendar, Bing apps, and others. The OSasaurs don't know this for they really never learned the system, but the apps are much more efficient in transferring/sharing data than the desktop environment. Can I prove that? No. One has to learn it to understand that point.
Damn, I had really thought that we'd moved past such nonsense. :sarc:
 

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Burgurne

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222
#34
@Burgurne, agreed that my comment does relate to all apps, what would it take to make you use metro apps if they ran on the desktop, if we had for example metro word and desktop word, both had the same features and run in a window, what would ms need to do so that you used the metro version of word instead of the desktop program

metro apps on the desktop is something I am not sure on yet, so interested in hearing others thoughts on why they would/would not use them
I don't want to use metroapps, not even in a window, as I do really see no point in learning to use new programs that can has less features than the programs I allready know. If the Metro add something new _usefull_ features, then I would start to learn.
 

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Indianatone

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#35
I hope we get a "Windows 7 Mode" installed on my powerful desktop machines and I never have to see any of the "Metro nonsense again". For netbooks, tablets a "metro mode" so I never have to look at that desktop nonsense. For laptops you get to choose. This is the OS that will have options to choose what to install and what to disable. If not Windows 7 will go on and on.......
 

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DavidY

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#36
Allow metro apps to run full screen as they do now
The ability to keep the start screen as it is now

keep these options and I will be happy
I agree, except the need to allow apps to multi-window. I don't think they'll window on the desktop as Mary Jo forecasts. I think they'll window on what I will call the new "Modern/Metro Desktop environment" as we really have now. They introduced the three sizes of tiles. Snapping might be something like that. Open an app and snap it both vertically as it does now and an added feature of then snapping horizontally, so therefore windowing. The amount of windows will be determined by the screen or monitor size.
Snapping is no good for me and I imagine many other people. I've yet to see anything that's as efficient as resizeable overlapping windows for some jobs.

If Microsoft don't allow overlapping Metro windows in Windows 9, it will be another nail in the coffin of Windows Store apps.

PS. I like OneNote as well, and also sync it with my phone, but the (also free) Desktop OneNote 2013 is better than the Metro version. ;)
 

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HippsieGypsie

It's Gururrrrrr8!
Lilymoor, IL

Posts
13,547
#37
Make no mistake that eventually the desktop app/portal will disappear.
Desktop disappear...?? Did I read that right...???

I should think that they have clearly learnt their lesson, and will NOT mess about with our desktop... at least not in our lifetime....
Yes, you read it right. I think the legacy Win32 desktop UI will eventually not be included in MS Windows OSs. There's a new UI screen to replace that. It's the Modern/Metro desktop environment. That's the screen where Modern/Metro Store apps run. That’s what the Modern/Metro Office will run on when released and a lot more production software when released, therefore, no need for the legacy Win32 desktop UI.

"Our desktop"? Excuse me, but perhaps you're not understanding the UELA. You/We do not own the software/OS that contains the legacy Win32 desktop UI. We purchase a license to use the software. MS at any time may omit the legacy Win32 desktop UI within future editions, even on existing OSs via an update if you choose to download and install such an update, for in the UELA you/we agree to that also. I don't think they'll do that, but the way I read it it is legally possible.

On the other hand, I would think that you as a Canadian citizen (assuming you are one) have every right not to install such an update and/or purchase a license for any future OS that excludes any item, configuration settings, UI, features, or what have you that you may enjoy to use.

You can hold on to and run any OS for a lifetime. The UELAs last a lifetime so far as I can see. I’m sure there are some that continue to run DOS. The only drawback is that they eventually aren't supported.

License Terms

3. Apps working in conjunction via charms such as the Mail, People (contacts), Photos (pics), Calendar, Bing apps, and others. The OSasaurs don't know this for they really never learned the system, but the apps are much more efficient in transferring/sharing data than the desktop environment. Can I prove that? No. One has to learn it to understand that point.
Damn, I had really thought that we'd moved past such nonsense. :sarc:
Are you saying that my observations, opinion, my term of OSosaurus, and/or one or all is nonsense? It is my observation and opinion that the overall system is in indeed quicker to use. Let’s start here where not one h8er seems to want to comment on: http://www.eightforums.com/general-support/16379-real-quality-boot-time-8-verses-7-a.html

Perhaps I should explain the term OSosaurus. It is a name I tag on those that I feel (by means of observing) that I think didn't/don't give 8.x a fair chance to learn it and using the Store apps daily for at least a three month period to grasp what the overall system can do. They install 3rd party software to make it to look and work much like prior OSs as much as possible while enjoying the "under the hood" features that 8.x offers. Of course anyone has the right to do so. To each their own.

Perhaps I should use Sevenosaurus Rex, Vistaosaurus Rex, or Xposaurus Rex to be more specific? How about Megaiwillnotchangeodon? PriorOSodon? XPatops? :sarc:

Another observation I’ve made with these species is that they attack in groups. It’s an efficient means of survival. They’ll be around for a while, but I think will eventually become extinct. :D
 

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CountMike

Well-Known Member
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Guru
Belgrade , Serbia

Posts
4,664
#38
I can't see M$ going desktop-less any time soon. That would mean instant death to billions of programs and applications, that's a base nobody can ignore. Unless they pull the old switcharoo like with DOS and make desktop as a subset to Metro.
 

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alphanumeric

slightly off center
VIP Member
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Gold Member
#39
Eventually I think you will see no distinction between the two. Desktop Program or Metro App, they will both look the same on the screen.
 

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CountMike

Well-Known Member
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Guru
Belgrade , Serbia

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4,664
#40
It's not too important what they look like as long as they work like they used to. Of course they might go way of 16 bit programs or Dodo which ever comes first but can't see that happening soon.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
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    Home made
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    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
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    Asus Prime x470 Pro
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    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
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    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
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    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD

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