Why Windows 8 isn't the monster hybrid some tout it as...

[Coke Robot]

Call me rigid if you want, but no amount of rationalization or theoretical argument will convince me that Win8 is anything but a hybrid dracula monster! And laptop to replace tower ... surely thou jest!

Hell with extreme mobo, i7 extreme CPU, SATA3 SSD HD, 12GB RAM & 3 SLI bridged GTX graphics cards, I have to bolt my tower to the desk to stop it going into orbit. Plus umpteen USB external devices, 2 DVD burners, 2nd internal HD and 1 eSATA HD, etc, etc.

So....one might say that you refuse to listen to rational logic?....

That's a decent setup if I've ever read of one! I'm personally building in two hard drive bays that will support 8 hard drives as well as I think 4 2.5" hard drive bays as well. I'm planning on using the new AMD APU Trinity quad core processor and might have its graphics core in CrossFire with an AMD card. I'm iffy, I found out that the new APU doesn't support PCI-Express 3, which sucks as more graphics cards are being built on that interface and AMD builds a good bunch of them. I don't know, I'm going to be using my puter for gaming, mainly Grand Theft Automobile 5, and AMD's APU performance just on its graphics chip out does its Intel counterpart in that arena. What's worse is that by this time next year, AMD's going to have a new APU that more than doubles the overall performance than the current generation. I'm torn.

But enough of that, yes, a laptop can't ever replace your tower, but that's you. For many a common user, a laptop has already replaced their tower. Why, one might ask even though laptops can't be configured for uber high end performance like towers and can have parts that are expensive to replace and have hard drives that can't last a good five years due to user ignorance that laptops can't be dropped or moved with the thing is on? Because it's portable, it's convenient, it doesn't take up as much space, and they just work. Take it out of the box, charge it first, and that's it. That's all you have to do with them. It's simple. You can have it in bed, on the couch, on your desk, on your lap, in the kitchen, in the bathroom (been there, done that), and outside and even more. A tablet PC takes that even further, like almost the next evolution of the laptop.

 

[Mustang]

But enough of that, yes, a laptop can't ever replace your tower, but that's you. For many a common user, a laptop has already replaced their tower.

Yes, I listen to logical argument, but don't necessarily agree with their line of reasoning. In the end, I use what I find works best for me, even though others sometimes tell me that they can "prove" I'm wrong. Like the shoe salesman who insisted I wear really tight fitting shoes, because his fitting machine told him I was wearing a size too big. Well, I'm still wearing a "size too big" ... and loving it! I'm talking personal preferences.

I'm not against laptops per se; or tablets, smartfones, etc. It's well established that they all have a role to play in portable work. I was referring to an earlier post that said the desktop would become obsolete and replaced by laptops. No way can I ever see that happening, at least not in my life time.

My son has a very expensive Sony laptop that cost him about $3,000 ($Aust), that he uses in his business, both on the move and in his home office. I suggested he get a tower as a backup with a 24 inch LED backlighted LCD monitor ... cost $1,000. He did, and now does 95% of his home office stuff on the tower in preference to his lappy, which has reversed roles and become the backup machine. The main difference is the big screen, and it's heaps faster because you don't get all the bloatware that comes with OEM machines ... like Norton AV already.

 

[pparks1]

^ Mustang: The computer that I was given at my job is a Dell Latitude E6400 which is a laptop. It's been a good little laptop for the past 3.5 years. However, I also built up some machines at my office for test boxes, and I managed to snag one as a desktop computer for myself. Even though spec wise, my laptop and my desktop are close, the performance of the desktop blows away the laptop.

I often work on my laptop while at home and it's fine. But then I get a chance to fire up my home desktop and I remember why I like the desktop better....it's just flat out faster in every respect. I most likely am always going to have a desktop around, but will probably also have a laptop for my portable use.

 

[Mustang]

^ Mustang: The computer that I was given at my job is a Dell Latitude E6400 which is a laptop. It's been a good little laptop for the past 3.5 years. However, I also built up some machines at my office for test boxes, and I managed to snag one as a desktop computer for myself. Even though spec wise, my laptop and my desktop are close, the performance of the desktop blows away the laptop.

I often work on my laptop while at home and it's fine. But then I get a chance to fire up my home desktop and I remember why I like the desktop better....it's just flat out faster in every respect. I most likely am always going to have a desktop around, but will probably also have a laptop for my portable use.

My son's Sony VAIO laptop and desktop both have Intel i7 CPUs but likewise for speed the desktop blows the lappy out of the water.

Also the lappy has issues with Avast AV and Zone Alarm firewall, and twice the system has become corrupted over the past 8 months and had to be reinstalled from an Acronis image which had the bloatware removed, not the factory reset.

 

[pparks1]

Mustang: Absolutely agree, I've never seen a laptop with similar specs outperform a desktop. Not entirely sure why laptops are always a bit behind, probably due to slower notebook hard drives. SSD's are helping with that, but I can also have the SSD in the desktop too, and pay less money for the desktop as well.

 

[Mustang]

pparks1: Great minds think alike! LOL!

One other thing I absolutely hate about laptops is the keyboard. I'm not particularly adroit with my fingers, (never could learn to play a guitar except single finger picking), but did pass touch-typing exam though not at top of the class. Even so, I need a bigger keyboard with raised and spaced keys. I know a lot of other people who feel the same way.

Then there's the small screen. I use 24 inch. Then there's the bloatware ... yadda yadda yadda!

 

[Coke Robot]

I'd love to see a desktop that has a removable laptop....so it would be like your desktop gives birth to a laptop? Your desktop to go!

 

[Mustang]

I'd love to see a desktop that has a removable laptop....so it would be like your desktop gives birth to a laptop? Your desktop to go!

Yep! I'll have that to go with fries! lol!

Who knows, in a few years time there may be a totally radically different way of doing it all? Years ago Dick Tracey comic books showed him wearing a wrist two-way-radio the size of a wrist watch, and everyone agreed it was only a fantasy. Now we see each other and send videos! Jules Vernes went to the centre of the earth! Maybe it'll be like Tom Cruise in 'Minority Report' movie with the pre-cogs and sweeping hand gestures moving things on a giant see through screen!

DVDs killed Video Cassettes. SSDs are killing HDDs. Flash drives and external USB HDs have replaced many DVD functions. SKYPE/satellite replaced short wave radios ... and man landed on the moon! And so it goes on. I read an article not so long ago where a hot air balloon was forced down in a remote uncivilized part of the world, and the locals hailed the ballooner as a God. Such things were unknown and beyond the imagination of that tribe, but they're still a reality. Pre WWII nuclear power was not even on the wish list ... at least to my knowledge it wasn't? Who knows what radical replacements are next ... 'Star Trek' space travel at the speed of light, and maybe even cold fusion? It seems the sci fi writers predict the future!

 

[tseven]

I don't think it's a bad idea to have the touch and desktop. It's just about how it's done. If it was done better I don't mind but how it's done now for me is the problem. Windows 8 in itself has never bothered me all that much. It's more about how they executed their idea in the form of a user interface.

 

[Coke Robot]

Laptops with similar specs to their desktop counterpart doesn't always outperform the desktop, it might be due to slower hard drives, but I find it's more due to power usage. Laptop chips are designed to use about 17-30 watts of power, but are usually lower than 30. Desktops however, their chips are usually around I think 50+ watts. More wattage, more power, more electron flow, more processing done.



And tseven, what are talking about?

 

[Fredledingue]

Actually, you'd be pretty surprised how fairly easy it is to repair a part in a laptop

I beg to disagree. . Ok for the HD and the battery. The rest is only a question of luck. I already tried to repair 3 laptops, myself and with the help for friend and professionals, to no avail.

I'd love to see a desktop that has a removable laptop....so it would be like your desktop gives birth to a laptop? Your desktop to go!

It shouldn't be difficult to plug your laptop to a USB port and sync all files and folders auotmaticaly. Then when you have to go you unplug it and take it with you. It can be made through remote connection but the idea is that you would not have to turn on the laptop to update the files. That would be an automatic function working from the Desktop PC, using the laptop as an USB drive or something.

don't think it's a bad idea to have the touch and desktop. It's just about how it's done. If it was done

I agree. First: Touch screens must be horizontal. Period. In fact it already exists in the shape of drawing tablets: But the example in this picture is bad, because it's tiresome to work with the arm stretched horizontaly. They are showing the artist as if he was painting on a canvas on a scaffold. If you paint on a real canvas it's ok, but for computer work it's completely diffrent. I know because I tried it. This is better:

For non graphic use, I can imagine an horizontal screen with a pen and a mouse just as with drawing tablets + the touch screen. The touch screen would be very close to the keyboard so that while you type you could swipe the windows with your fingers on the screen and similar gestures. But for God's Sake! Don't give me such a device with the Metro UI! We want resizeable windows! The mouse would still be there just like the old style Start Menu, available anytime you need it.

 

[Coke Robot]

I'd much prefer as well for the touch screen to be flatter horizontally than vertically. I hope a manufacturer makes a touch monitor that one can adjust from being horizontal to vertical, I'd love it for Photoshop and AutoCAD. I can't use a mouse to draw, it's by far too unnatural. If one wants a start menu, we'd be talking about using Windows 7

But as for the laptop being difficult to repair, what was the problem with them that couldn't e resolved? Just curious.



Also, I've been pondering, it would be better to use either an ARM or x86 based tablet instead of the laptop popping from the desktop. Too much space would be taken. Also, as Windows 8 supports NFC, I would imagine that could be used for file sync/transfers.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I'd love to see a desktop that has a removable laptop....so it would be like your desktop gives birth to a laptop? Your desktop to go!

Yep! I'll have that to go with fries! lol!

Who knows, in a few years time there may be a totally radically different way of doing it all? Years ago Dick Tracey comic books showed him wearing a wrist two-way-radio the size of a wrist watch, and everyone agreed it was only a fantasy. Now we see each other and send videos! Jules Vernes went to the centre of the earth! Maybe it'll be like Tom Cruise in 'Minority Report' movie with the pre-cogs and sweeping hand gestures moving things on a giant see through screen!

DVDs killed Video Cassettes. SSDs are killing HDDs. Flash drives and external USB HDs have replaced many DVD functions. SKYPE/satellite replaced short wave radios ... and man landed on the moon! And so it goes on. I read an article not so long ago where a hot air balloon was forced down in a remote uncivilized part of the world, and the locals hailed the ballooner as a God. Such things were unknown and beyond the imagination of that tribe, but they're still a reality. Pre WWII nuclear power was not even on the wish list ... at least to my knowledge it wasn't? Who knows what radical replacements are next ... 'Star Trek' space travel at the speed of light, and maybe even cold fusion? It seems the sci fi writers predict the future!

You must be a little older to know all that change or smart enough to have learned all of it. It is amazing how technology has changed in such a short period of time. In my life time, anyway. You can read some stories here: http://www.eightforums.com/chillout-room/7538-personal-computer-related-memories-i-remember.html

Watch the move "200:1 A Space Odyssey". It was released in 1969, the same year as the Apollo 11 moon landing.

I'll ask all to post your stories there.

I don't think it's a bad idea to have the touch and desktop. It's just about how it's done. If it was done better I don't mind but how it's done now for me is the problem. Windows 8 in itself has never bothered me all that much. It's more about how they executed their idea in the form of a user interface.

I think this is the ideal setup. I've gotten by with my PC and Doid2, but I need something bigger for portability. I'm going to wait for the Surface to be released as to make a decision on what to purchase.

Laptops with similar specs to their desktop counterpart doesn't always outperform the desktop, it might be due to slower hard drives, but I find it's more due to power usage. Laptop chips are designed to use about 17-30 watts of power, but are usually lower than 30. Desktops however, their chips are usually around I think 50+ watts. More wattage, more power, more electron flow, more processing done.

Makes perfect sense. More wattage in the cottage! Cooling is the big factor, of course. Perhaps a liquid-cooled lappy is the solution.

All in all, electronics are getting smaller all the time.

 

[pparks1]

Laptops with similar specs to their desktop counterpart doesn't always outperform the desktop, it might be due to slower hard drives, but I find it's more due to power usage. Laptop chips are designed to use about 17-30 watts of power, but are usually lower than 30. Desktops however, their chips are usually around I think 50+ watts. More wattage, more power, more electron flow, more processing done.

So, remind me again why I would want a laptop or tablet for any serious computer work. It's limited by power and will thus perform more slowly.

Actually, you'd be pretty surprised how fairly easy it is to repair a part in a laptop.

Not compared to a desktop. Examples
1). My power supply in my laptop went bad, versus my power supply went bad in my PC. Hop on down to Best Buy, pick up any ATX power supply, change it in the desktop.
2). My video card went out in my laptop, versus my video card when out in my desktop. Hop on down to Best Buy, pick up a new video card, pop it into the desktop, done.
3). My DVD burner quit working in my laptop, versus my DVD burner quit in my desktop. Hop on down to Best Buy, pick up a new DVD burner and install it into the desktop.

None of these things can easily be done with a laptop, as commodity parts are not used. Sure, you can change out a DVD drive, but you have to usually work directly through the vendor and pay whatever price they are asking for their custom fit part.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

@pparks1

You are correct -> for the time being. Perhaps some day in the near future a portable will accomplish your needs.

I've never taken a lappy apart, but I've worked on a few PCs including my own. There's not much I can't take apart that I can't fix and assemble again, within reason of course, for electronics surely are getting smaller.

 

[Coke Robot]

Laptops with similar specs to their desktop counterpart doesn't always outperform the desktop, it might be due to slower hard drives, but I find it's more due to power usage. Laptop chips are designed to use about 17-30 watts of power, but are usually lower than 30. Desktops however, their chips are usually around I think 50+ watts. More wattage, more power, more electron flow, more processing done.

So, remind me again why I would want a laptop or tablet for any serious computer work. It's limited by power and will thus perform more slowly.

Actually, you'd be pretty surprised how fairly easy it is to repair a part in a laptop.

Not compared to a desktop. Examples
1). My power supply in my laptop went bad, versus my power supply went bad in my PC. Hop on down to Best Buy, pick up any ATX power supply, change it in the desktop.
2). My video card went out in my laptop, versus my video card when out in my desktop. Hop on down to Best Buy, pick up a new video card, pop it into the desktop, done.
3). My DVD burner quit working in my laptop, versus my DVD burner quit in my desktop. Hop on down to Best Buy, pick up a new DVD burner and install it into the desktop.

None of these things can easily be done with a laptop, as commodity parts are not used. Sure, you can change out a DVD drive, but you have to usually work directly through the vendor and pay whatever price they are asking for their custom fit part.

Why would anyone else want a desktop with overbuilt hardware to do things that a laptop can easily do everywhere a desktop can't?

I guess to me repairing laptops is easier than to most people as I do it at least a few times a month.

But to rebuttal...
A power supply went bad on a friend's laptop. Search for the laptop model series on newegg or amazon and order the charger.
A video card died in another friend's laptop. Two solutions, replace the motherboard altogether or get a new laptop. Not the best solutions, as video cards are integrated in many laptops, but there are a few gamer laptops with dedicated removable cards.
A DVD drive stopped functioning on a laptop. Search for the laptop model series on newgg or amazon and order the replacement DVD drive. And then subsequently install said parts and reassemble said laptops.

Simplicity and streamlining a design ALWAYS brings in complexity. It takes a simple, simplification of the issue.

 

[pparks1]

Why would anyone else want a desktop with overbuilt hardware to do things that a laptop can easily do everywhere a desktop can't?

I said where I had serious computer work to do. You probably wouldn't need a core i7 in a laptop unless you were doing some significant processing.

A power supply went bad on a friend's laptop. Search for the laptop model series on newegg or amazon and order the charger.

I must have been out of it when I wrote this one, a power supply in a laptop is an external device. That has no bearing on this discussion. My bad entirely.

A video card died in another friend's laptop. Two solutions, replace the motherboard altogether or get a new laptop. Not the best solutions, as video cards are integrated in many laptops, but there are a few gamer laptops with dedicated removable cards.

Right, but had a video card, not integrated of course, on a desktop died, you could easily just replace the card.

A DVD drive stopped functioning on a laptop. Search for the laptop model series on newgg or amazon and order the replacement DVD drive. And then subsequently install said parts and reassemble said laptops.

But like I said, the price could be high. For example, the DVD drive for my laptop is $90 from Amazon: Amazon.com: DELL LATITUDE E6400 E6500 DVD±RW Drive MU10N 0RK988 RK988: Electronics.
Or, a LiteOn DVD burner that would fit any desktop $18 from Amazon
Amazon.com: Lite-On Super AllWrite 24X SATA DVD+/-RW Dual Layer Drive - Bulk - IHAS124-04 Version C (Black): Electronics

 

[musiclover7]

Here is the thing. There are still a lot of people working in a cubical or some kind of an office/desk based environment, arguably most people. Mobility is great and all, but I spend about 50 hours a week in front of 5 screens on 2 computers, and I am dreading the day when I might have to try to incorporate the changes brought with Win8 into my workflow. It just is not going to happen. Do a lot of people rely on tablets/phones as their primary computer? I am sure there are those that do, but I imagine they are still very much in the minority. With this in mind, tailoring the operating system to better accommodate these users at the expense of everyone who is still using Windows in a desktop environment is just pure stupidity!! More than that, it is kind of wicked.. From my perspective, Microsoft is essentially telling the majority of their user base that their way of doing things is lame/outdated, and now forcing them to do things in an entirely new way, even after getting a ton of feedback from early testers that it is just plain rubbish!!

Now, if instead, they kept the old and in turn included the new, in other words, if they gave their customers some sort of choice, then I imagine that this entire release would be so much better received!! Unfortunately, I think Microsoft is on the brink of a disaster. Strap on your seat belts and break out the popcorn. Any way you chase it, this is going to be very interesting to watch.

 

[Fredledingue]

But as for the laptop being difficult to repair, what was the problem with them that couldn't e resolved? Just curious.

1/ One had the display broken. Tried 3 theoricaly compatible displays but never the exact same serie number which was impossible to find, just compatible ones. No one was working. ......................... 2/ DVD drive: Not only it stopped working, but the whole laptop would refused to boot as long as a disc was inside. As Windows Vista couldn't read the disc, it tried again again and again and finaly went dark. No safe mode, nothing, dark. Nothing you could do or type. Even worse, impossible to eject the disc. No material eject button! Unbelievable! Finaly we went to the store were they showed us how to open it with a needle. We never found the replacement DVD drive or it was ridiculousely expensive. We let the Laptop without optical drive and used USB sticks instead. ............................ 3/ Coffee spilled over the keyboard. The whole think went banana. We tried to dry it, asked a pro to fix it. It was half working until its condition was worsening to the point of being unusable.

Now, if instead, they kept the old and in turn included the new, in other words, if they gave their customers some sort of choice, then I imagine that this entire release would be so much better received!! Unfortunately, I think Microsoft is on the brink of a disaster. Strap on your seat belts and break out the popcorn. Any way you chase it, this is going to be very interesting to watch.

That's how I feel too. I'm eager to see what will happen in the next months when reality will hit the fans. This is unseen in the whole History of computers. Their stubborness is beyond any stretch of the imaginatioon.

 

[SIW2]

Disaster may be a bit strong.

They will sell some with holiday season launch yeehaha, and with the giveaway upgrade price.

They will claim that as an immense success.

When the dust has setlled - I expect we will see a lot of people have given it a miss - just like they did with Vista.