Why is running your second OS in virtual so much easier th

[whs]

If you want to install a second Operating system on your system you have several options : ....

None of those problems arise when you install in virtual.

I am getting bored with what I am doing. Thinking of going back to Win7 on my old lappy and doing something I haven't done before on a Windows machine. In this regard, if I choose to use VMware Player to run Win8 virtually on the old lappy after returning it Win7, then can I use a Win8 disk image made via Windows 7 File Recovery (on Win8) to set things up or, alternatively, use, say, a disk image made via Acronis or Paragon to set things up?

The old lappy only has 2 GB of RAM, but I never would be running two applicatons/tasks of significance from both systems at once. Do you thing 2 GB would be a problem?

Thanks for any help.

It is a lot easier. In the system where you have VMware right now, there should be a VMware folder called 'Virtual Machines' - probably in Documents. Move a copy of this folder to your new machine (probably also to Documents or any other place). Then install VMware on your new machine and open it.

Then follow the steps in this tutorial under 'Starting your virtual System'. No images required. And whenever you want to backup your VMware virtual system, just copy that 'Virtual Machines' folder to another partition. It will be at the state of when you copied it.

 

[znod]

Thank you very much whs. I will look carefully at the tutorial. Currently, I am not running VMware; don't have VMware folder called "'Virtual Machines.'" No "new machine." Just doing some preliminary thinking. As indicated, I will look carefully at the tutorial, but, for now, can you, or someone else, give a yes or no (or maybe a shade of grey) on "can I use a Windows 8 disk image made via Windows 7 File Recovery (on Windows 8) to set things up [on VMware Player] or, alternatively, use, say, a disk image made via Acronis or Paragon to set things up [on VMware Player]?"

 

[whs]

No, that will not work. For VMware setup you need an iso. What you might be able to do is to make a dummy VMware installation with an iso and replace that by an image. That needs more thought though.

 

[whs]

Here is what might work.

0. make a Macrium image of the partition you want to transport. You can use the WinPE CD => the .iso is at this Skydrive site. Download and burn.

1. You define a virtual partition in VMware at least the size of the partition from where the image comes.

2. Install any Windows system (as a dummy) in there.

3. Use the WinPE Macrium disc to replace the dummy Windows system with the image.

Matter of trying. Not 100% certain how that will work out.

 

[znod]

No, that will not work. For VMware setup you need an iso. What you might be able to do is to make a dummy VMware installation with an iso and replace that by an image. That needs more thought though.

Thanks again. I have lots of ISO's. What you say is consistent with my thinking/hoping. Maybe someone else will know for sure. But, heck I'd try it, whatever, if I go that direction.

 

[whs]

The problem will be in step #3 because Macrium recovery will look for a mounted volume. I have never mounted a .vmdk (the VMware virtual disk).

 

[znod]

Here is what might work.

0. make a Macrium image of the partition you want to transport. You can use the WinPE CD => the .iso is at this Skydrive site. Download and burn.

1. You define a virtual partition in VMware at least the size of the partition from where the image comes.

2. Install any Windows system (as a dummy) in there.

3. Use the WinPE Macrium disc to replace the dummy Windows system with the image.

Matter of trying. Not 100% certain how that will work out.

Sounds good. Thank you once again. I'll have to investigate "WinPE CD => the .iso is at this Skydrive site" to know exactly what you are talking about. If I get around to what I am thinking about, then I'll get back to you if successful (or, actually, if unsuccessful)--regardless of how I do it (or don't do it). You've been a great help.

 

[whs]

Not sure whether I have been a great help yet. Mounting the .vmdk in step #3 is not a trivial task. Btw: The WinPE .iso I had uploaded to Skydrive. It works exactly the same as the installed Macrium program. It is just more convenient because you need not install Macrium.

 

[whs]

Have a look at this. Maybe that helps: Mounting VMDK disks directly to your windows box - how to

 

[znod]

Thanks much. I think I will end up not trying to use a Windows 8 disk image made via Windows 7 File Recovery (on Windows 8) to set things up [on VMware Player] or to use, say, a disk image made via Acronis or Paragon to set things up [on VMware Player]. Doing so sounds like too much of a task. I'll just set up VMware Player the standard way--whatever that is--assuming I get around to taking that approach. I also am thinking of some other possible boredom reducers. Thanks again.

 

[whs]

Running VMware from an external disk is different and maybe a little challenge. It should be a SSD though. I got a 60GB Mushkin for $59 and am very happy with this setup. Can attach to any PC and run (needs the VMware program on those PCs).

My next project is to run Windows 8 in VMware from a RAMdisk. But for that I have to remodel my old Dell box to get 24GBs of RAM.

 

[MrShowdown]

I actually agree with you with running OS on VM, but it's not the best option for weak systems.
The question is, with 2GB of RAM, how was running x86 Windows 7 on a Windows 8 x64 Host?

 

[whs]

Agree, you need at least 4GB of RAM. And if you have a lot of processors, that's good too. You can assign them 50/50.

 

[znod]

If you want to install a second Operating system on your system you have several options :

• Double boot
• Install in a virtual partition
• Install in a VHD
• And maybe some other options

The intuitive move seems to be to install with double boot. But that can be extremely frustrating. If the second OS is a Linux distro, you get your bootmgr clobbered by the Grub which will give you a lot of trouble the day you want to get rid of it.

If the second system is Windows 8, you may run into complications with the UEFI and have similar problems as with Linux.

In any case, a double boot is not very fluent for concurrent operation because you have to take down OS #1 and boot OS #2 if you want to switch.

None of those problems arise when you install in virtual. In fact there are a lot more advantages.

1. The installation of the second OS is completely isolated from the host OS. No impact on the bootmgr or anything else. The virtual partition ends up to be a folder which you can move to any partition or disk drive if you want to change the location of the virtual partition.

2. You can move that installation folder to an external drive attached via USB and run your system from there. That is how I run Windows 8 and Zorin (an Ubuntu based distro).

3. If you want to 'image' your virtual system at any given point in time, you just copy the installation folder to another partition/disk and you save the status of your OS at that moment. That beats imaging in simplicity and execution time.

4. You can run the virtual system and the host system side by side. That means you switch from one system to another with 1 click. No shutdown and reboot required.

5. You can move data easily between both systems because the clipboard is shared. What you copy in one system you can paste in the other system. Compare that to moving data in a double booted setup.

6. You can use facilities of the host system during the guest system session. E.g. I use a fancy snipping tool that I have in Windows 7 to make snips in my Windows 8 and Zorin windows. The same with my screen recorder which I start in Windows 7 but I record e.g. activities in Windows 8. No need to install such programs in the guest system - and in Linux they are not available anyhow.

7. You can chose to run the guest system full screen and exclusively (then you have no access to the host), but you can get back to the dual mode with 1 click.

8. You can run programs in one machine whilst you are working in the other machine. E.g. installing updates, or running your Webradio.

9. And if you are really bold, you install your second (third, forth, etc.) OS on an external drive - like I did. Then you can carry those systems to any PC and run them there.

10. And the day you want to get rid of that OS, you just delete the VMware folder. No bootmgr and MBR fixes or any other exotic operations.

I am sure I forgot a few advantages. But that should give you an idea.

The next question is usually performance. Here I see very little difference between running an OS 'native' or running it virtual. You judge for yourself when you watch my two demos linked below. And remember, I am even running from an external disk attached via USB. And here is the Windows scoring of this setup - for whatever it's worth.

View attachment 16554


Will I ever wrestle with a double/triple boot again - NO WAY. I have used Virtual Box in the past, but now I use the VMware Player which I find better suited. Here are the links:

Demo running Windows 8 in VMware Player
Demo running Zorin in VMware Player
Tutorial by Shawn on how to install an OS (Win8 as example) in VMware Player
My tutorial on how to install on the virtual system on an external disk
Tutorial on how to share partitions between Host and Guest

Thanks for your post again and your encouragement to go virtual. You may recall I mentioned being bored with what I have been doing Win8-wise. I also was becoming disinterested somewhat because I was using a 6 or 7 year old HP laptop with Win8 Pro. After starting to use it again in this context, it developed an adapter/computer connection problem such that getting it to charge became a real pain; it would not allow system restore; I could not restore a disk image from the same external drive used in creating the image in the first place; and it's trackpad does not work exceptionally well in Win8, etc. Also, I had become tired of much of the time running Win8 Pro on the HP laptop via remote desktop connection on my MacBook Pro (i.e., doing some things are too inconvenient).

1. So, my choices were dual boot with Win8 on my DIY rig--not a great idea for a lot of reasons--see system specs.
2. Buy a new UEFI Win8 Pro machine. But, I am committed to doing no such thing--Marketplace Vote OEM Win8 Machine.
3. Install Win8 Pro via Boot Camp on my MacBook Pro. I didn't really want to do so because I would have to destroy a very nice Win7 Ultimate setup already running there.
4. Go virtual with Win8 Pro on my MacBook Pro using Parallels (or Fusion). I had used Parallels 4 quite a while ago, but gave it up because I didn't use it too much.

OK, so I went with 4--using Win8 Pro/Parallels 8. Parallel's 8 has been an enormous pleasure buy, install, and use from the get-go in all respects. I still have to figure out some setting, options, etc., but, in a very short while, I had Win Pro setup and running much better than before on my HP lappy (absolutely no problems along the way). For now, given my limited knowledge at this point, I'll second basically what you say above in 1, 4, 5 (Actually everything is completely seamless in doing "everything."), 6 (yes, on snipping-type tools, etc.), 7, 8, 9 (running Win7 Ultimate via Boot Camp), and 10. I haven't tried/looked into the things you mention on the numbers I left out.

Thanks for getting me interested in virtual possibilities again.

 

[znod]

See my post 34. Made a crude stab at trying to compare performance of

Win8 Pro Clean Virtual installation on MacBook Pro (referred to as "MacBook Pro" below) and

Win8 Pro Clean Installation on HP Laptop (referred to as "HP Laptop" below).

Feature	MacBook Pro	HP Laptop
RAM	2 GB allocated virtually	2 GB
Processor	2.8 GHz	2.2 GHz
OS	64-bit Win8 Pro	64-bit Win8 Pro
HDD	5400 RPM	5400 RPM
Display Adapter	Parallels Display Adapter	NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS

WEI's below. MacBook Pro first/HP Laptop second. Very, very crude, I know. Ignoring the third item for the HP (something obviously wrong), the race is pretty equal--with maybe a small victory margin for the virtual installation. I also think there is something funny about the relationship between the processor calculations per second on the two machines. Should mention that the MacBook Pro is not a spring chicken--about 3 1/2 years old.

 

[whs]

Now that is interesting. Virtual on a Macbook. Maybe you should write a tutorial/experience report about it. I have no Macbook, else I would certainly try that.

 

[znod]

Thought you'd think it's interesting. I might get around to a report. Look back now at my "silly" comparative performance test (post 35). Here's my desktop.

 

[whs]

Pretty, don't worry about the performance nums as long as it works.

 

[znod]

Not at all worried about the performance values. You mentioned the following in your first post:

"The next question is usually performance. Here I see very little difference between running an OS 'native' or running it virtual. You judge for yourself when you watch my two demos linked below. And remember, I am even running from an external disk attached via USB. And here is the Windows scoring of this setup - for whatever it's worth.that you get what seem to you to be good performance virtually."

I was just supporting your point with the best (but very imprecise) test of virtual performance versus native performance I could muster under the circumstances.

 

[Hopachi]

Thank you very much whs. I will look carefully at the tutorial. Currently, I am not running VMware; don't have VMware folder called "'Virtual Machines.'" No "new machine." Just doing some preliminary thinking. As indicated, I will look carefully at the tutorial, but, for now, can you, or someone else, give a yes or no (or maybe a shade of grey) on "can I use a Windows 8 disk image made via Windows 7 File Recovery (on Windows 8) to set things up [on VMware Player] or, alternatively, use, say, a disk image made via Acronis or Paragon to set things up [on VMware Player]?"

Some options exist on this.

This should work..., according to the thread in link below, just give the machine the same disk size and identical specs if possible (virtual CPU is already the same as the real one on same host, ram can be lower).

Lower disk sizes will get you in problems from what I've seen.
I've been using Windows image backup from Win7.

Create a new machine and when you boot boot with Acronis image and the backup inserted in usb external drive that gets added in VMware Player.

More info here. It can take a while so if you need fast tests: clean install.

Also the safest way is the clean install.

One good made VM will run on any PC with Player or Workstation installed.