What we are REALLY getting with Windows 8

[Mike Lonewolf]

Forgive me guys. I'm old fashion. My cellphone only makes calls, and takes pictures (Why does anyone need to take a picture for)? I have a digital camera, and camcorder. I keep a disposable camera in my car if I happened to be involved in an accident, and I can bet you guys CAN'T get over 2.5 hours of digital recording with any of your phones). So for myself this is a mute conversation. AND before you ask, AND I know you WILL ADRz, I don't have, nor have a need for a tablet. LoL

 

[ADRz]

Forgive me guys. I'm old fashion. My cellphone only makes calls, and takes pictures (Why does anyone need to take a picture for)? I have a digital camera, and camcorder. I keep a disposable camera in my car if I happened to be involved in an accident, and I can bet you guys CAN'T get over 2.5 hours of digital recording with any of your phones). So for myself this is a mute conversation. AND before you ask, AND I know you WILL ADRz, I don't have, nor have a need for a tablet. LoL

Well, different strokes for different folks. However, modern smartphones are essentially portable computers, cameras, camcorders, radios and ipods!!! They are amazingly versatile. My phone has a 8 MPx back camera with dual LED flash and a 2 MPx front camera, allowing full videoconferences (if I want). It records video at 1080p (the length of recording depends on available memory). It does make calls alright, checks the weather, my calendar, my email etc, etc. It is an indispensable little beast!!

Actually, I have a use for a tablet but not the ones MS is developing for. I already have a convertible tablet (a Fujitsu T5010) which I utilize for design. So, just capacitive screens are inadequate for me. Whatever I have would need to have both a capacitive and a resistive screen because I need to capture pressure (capacitive screens cannot do this). So, a Win7 tablet is good enough for me (the covertibility is important).

 

[Lotok]

Well, different strokes for different folks. However, modern smartphones are essentially portable computers, cameras, camcorders, radios and ipods!!! They are amazingly versatile. My phone has a 8 MPx back camera with dual LED flash and a 2 MPx front camera, allowing full videoconferences (if I want). It records video at 1080p (the length of recording depends on available memory). It does make calls alright, checks the weather, my calendar, my email etc, etc. It is an indispensable little beast!!

Motorola Droid Razr?

 

[ADRz]

Well, different strokes for different folks. However, modern smartphones are essentially portable computers, cameras, camcorders, radios and ipods!!! They are amazingly versatile. My phone has a 8 MPx back camera with dual LED flash and a 2 MPx front camera, allowing full videoconferences (if I want). It records video at 1080p (the length of recording depends on available memory). It does make calls alright, checks the weather, my calendar, my email etc, etc. It is an indispensable little beast!!

Motorola Droid Razr?

No, the Galaxy SII Skyrocket (the LTE version of Galaxy SII)

 

[Coke Robot]

Don't underestimate manufacturers. Ever. Don't underestimate Microsoft's competitiveness. Ever.

Why do you believe that the Windows Phone 7 hasn't made an impact on consumers out of curiosity?

I do not underestimate anything. But none of the major manufacturers has any proven record of selling tablets and for a good reason. They are in the hardware business, they are not in the content provision business. They are neither Apple nor Amazon. They can only appeal to businesses which are the major purchasers of their products. Thus, their tablets are and will be targeted to businesses (if they need them), not consumers. Neither Lenovo, Dell or HP have any ecosystem to support consumer-oriented tablets. Nor can they offer tablets at $200 because they have no way of making money through content. Dell had a 7'' inch tablet out there for quite some time until it finally killed for poor sales. Amazon, on the other hand, sold untold millions of Kindle Fires. At $199, they are an impulse buy. At over $500, it gets to be a different proposition. At that level, nothing beats the iPad.

Why do you even ask about the impact of Windows Phone 7 with the consumers. It even trails Symbian for market share!!!! Even in the US, it has a 5% market share and it is actually declining. Despite "Mango", it had an underwhelming performance during the holidays. So, despite lots of advertising, it has been a commercial flop. None of the WP phones even offer LTE speeds nor do they support multi-core processors. WP may get to be competitive at some time, but it would not be any time soon.

In November, I had to get a new phone. I examined very carefully WP7.5 and Android phones and decided to buy an Android (The Galaxy SII Skyrocket). In fact, I believe that you would have reached the same decision. If you are presented with a phone with very limited customization capability, no expandability, no access to the file system versus one that has all these and much more (almost infinite customization capability, additional storage, true multitasking, LTE speeds, dual-core processor, etc, etc) why pick up the first? It makes no sense. WP7 is not Windows, it is a new and very closed OS.

You're definitely underestimating the metro interface.

You're right, none of the major tablet manufacturers have a good record of selling tablets. The good reason is because of android. They got caught up in making "me too!" tablets to compete against the giant itouch and none of them have had any success until the Samsung Galaxy tablet. Why? android. android was the perfect system to use because it was designed from ios with a meshed blackberry, whatever it's from interface of navigating through menus and submenus. android tablets don't look sleek, the software itself looks like it's an imitation of an ipad. Again, I wouldn't underestimate manufacturers and their competitiveness when they have their hands on Windows 8. It's an genuinely new and different product that will do what no android tablet can do, make the ipad look like a toy from fischer-price.

I ask about the Windows Phone because it has played a major role in Windows 8. Hmm, I don't get why people don't know about the Windows Phone 7, since people are just bombarded with adverts and have salespeople from service providers peddling Windows Phones everywhere and saying it's better than android just because you can "customize" it. Oh wait, that doesn't happen. No one literally knows about the Windows Phone 7. The only commercial flop is literally a flop of commercials. Microsoft can't get good relationships with many phone manufacturers and can't get into the carrier market since they're all busy selling crap android 2.32, 2.22, 2.2 and whatever phones that cost 30-70 dollars and get people to buy those phones so the carriers can get money from selling their service. It's as simple as that. Ask people you know about the Windows Phone 7, tell me what they say.

The beauty of the Windows Phone is that it works great with a small screen and works great with phones. If I need to sit down in from of my small android phone for more than an hour a day, ok, I'll buy an android and manage files and customize the bloody hell out of it. Since I only look at my phone for less than 10 minutes in one sitting, either watching video or in a metro app, I don't care for having widgets to tell me analog time or weather widgets or facebook widgets or care for having video backgrounds or skinning the interface or spending a crap ton of time to customize a home screen that I won't actually look at since I'll be opening an app, not looking at the home screen. I care for a phone that I can easily navigate through the interface, see clearly what I'm doing, go through my apps with one hand and one thumb, and have a visually pleasing interface with themed apps based off that interface.

A phone shouldn't be taken to the extreme customization of a PC. An android isn't a PC. I have my desktop to do that. By the way, I've compared both android 4.0 (Samsung Galaxy) to the Windows Phone 7 with Mango. Since phones keep you connected to people through text or voice, I'd like a phone that can manage my text messaging better than just using an app to another app. I'd like something that keeps my social networking on the go with me and help me keep in contact with people I care most for. The telephone was invented to connect people across thousands of miles. The iphone and android turned something so simple as such into a mobile wasteland of every free app one can download. The Windows Phone is obviously not Windows, nor is it intended to be. If you want Windows, use Windows on a desktop, tablet, or laptop, not a 4 inch screen. A Windows Phone 7 is new and does what a phone should, keep you connected with people in these modern days through social networking, text, voice, and soon video calling.

 

[Coke Robot]

It's the same reason as the Windows Phone argument, it's purely different. It can go against the android and win in the major categories of practicality and design. With an android, you get a jailbroken iphone with a crap ton of apps and crap ton of questionable apps that might be trying to get your banking info. With an iphone, you get something that hasn't geneuinly changed since 2006 OTHER than the app store. You still get the main basic apps, and you have a store to buy apps that make up for the lack of features. With a Windows Phone 7, you get something that is truly original, not a copycat build, not something that won't change. You get a device that is actually smart at keeping you connected with people. You'd think by now that would be obvious with smartphones, but not so. You also get the fastest growing app marketplace among them. In 15 or so months of the Windows Phone Marketplace, there are over 50,000 apps. It took iOS 12, it took android 18 months. Better proposition in my rational opinion.

Sorry, but the above indicates total ignorance of iOS 5.0 and Android. I doubt that you have used these OSes at all. If you knew even the basics about Android, you would have known that it can do much of the same thing as WP7 through widgets and hubs. It so happens that it is up to the user to select what to run. iOS has also a certain level of integration.

On the other hand, WP7 is visually uninteresting. Have you ever used it? I have. Beyond the opening screen of squares, there is nothing, just a long list of apps. In fact, any integration is just skin-deep and some is not even there. There is very limited customisability and there is no access to the file system or capability of attaching more storage. Nor can you "sideload" apps (which you can easily do in Android). It does not support most modern hardware. So, if you are such a great supporter, why would you choose it over Android?

In addition, let me inform you that you need to "root" Android phones as you "jailbreak" an iPhone.

I've used it all, android 2, 3, and 4 and iOS 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.
I've used the Windows Phone 7 quite a bit. Have you even used it? You CAN add more storage with most phones, social network integration is quite deep. If by sideloading, you mean from computer to phone? I've never heard of such a term with phones, since I don't really understand using phones as PCs. The Windows Phone is still new, if modern hardware means a dual core processor, then no. Even then, a dual core isn't necessary as of now. It's still adding more hardware compatibilty as time goes on. For instance, in a couple months or so, LTE support will arrive, built in video calling with be there, more front facing cameras will come in, most likely better cameras in general. It took three versions of android to have LTE compatibility, almost a year when android 3.0 was release. It took the Windows Phone a year and half with one major update and one upcoming one.

No, I deem the android software as a jailbroken iOS. It's free, it has access to a ridiculous amounts of apps that are free, and you can customize it as one would wish. That's basically the definition of a jailbroken iphone.

 

[ADRz]

You're definitely underestimating the metro interface.
QUOTE]
The correct thing to say is that I do not like it esthetically and operationally

You're right, none of the major tablet manufacturers have a good record of selling tablets. The good reason is because of android. They got caught up in making "me too!" tablets to compete against the giant itouch and none of them have had any success until the Samsung Galaxy tablet. Why? android. android was the perfect system to use because it was designed from ios with a meshed blackberry, whatever it's from interface of navigating through menus and submenus. android tablets don't look sleek, the software itself looks like it's an imitation of an ipad. Again, I wouldn't underestimate manufacturers and their competitiveness when they have their hands on Windows 8. It's an genuinely new and different product that will do what no android tablet can do, make the ipad look like a toy from fischer-price.

Really? Why? They have not been able to compete with the iPad using Android that has now 400,000 apps and counting, and they would be able to do with with Win8 that has about a dozen????? Come again???

I ask about the Windows Phone because it has played a major role in Windows 8. Hmm, I don't get why people don't know about the Windows Phone 7, since people are just bombarded with adverts and have salespeople from service providers peddling Windows Phones everywhere and saying it's better than android just because you can "customize" it. Oh wait, that doesn't happen. No one literally knows about the Windows Phone 7. The only commercial flop is literally a flop of commercials. Microsoft can't get good relationships with many phone manufacturers and can't get into the carrier market since they're all busy selling crap android 2.32, 2.22, 2.2 and whatever phones that cost 30-70 dollars and get people to buy those phones so the carriers can get money from selling their service. It's as simple as that. Ask people you know about the Windows Phone 7, tell me what they say.

You are wrong about the pricing of Android Phones. In fact, they are quite expensive (the top tier of sets). Some costs as much as $299 subsidized. They cost as much as $800 unlocked. Where did you get your numbers? And what makes them "crap"? I would not talk about things I have no operational experience about and the same should apply to you. You do not know Android, so moderate your remarks on that score

The beauty of the Windows Phone is that it works great with a small screen and works great with phones. If I need to sit down in from of my small android phone for more than an hour a day, ok, I'll buy an android and manage files and customize the bloody hell out of it. Since I only look at my phone for less than 10 minutes in one sitting, either watching video or in a metro app, I don't care for having widgets to tell me analog time or weather widgets or facebook widgets or care for having video backgrounds or skinning the interface or spending a crap ton of time to customize a home screen that I won't actually look at since I'll be opening an app, not looking at the home screen. I care for a phone that I can easily navigate through the interface, see clearly what I'm doing, go through my apps with one hand and one thumb, and have a visually pleasing interface with themed apps based off that interface.

Which you can easily do in the notifications bar of your Android phone depending how you have set it up. In fact, it can easily tell you how many emails you got in how many accounts, how many tweets, if you have any facebooks notifications, if you have missed calls or voice mails. Just at one glance. Again, you are making comments without any knowledge of the systems you are opposing. In many, many ways, Android phones are superior functionally to WP phones.

A phone shouldn't be taken to the extreme customization of a PC. An android isn't a PC. I have my desktop to do that. By the way, I've compared both android 4.0 (Samsung Galaxy) to the Windows Phone 7 with Mango. Since phones keep you connected to people through text or voice, I'd like a phone that can manage my text messaging better than just using an app to another app. I'd like something that keeps my social networking on the go with me and help me keep in contact with people I care most for. The telephone was invented to connect people across thousands of miles. The iphone and android turned something so simple as such into a mobile wasteland of every free app one can download. The Windows Phone is obviously not Windows, nor is it intended to be. If you want Windows, use Windows on a desktop, tablet, or laptop, not a 4 inch screen. A Windows Phone 7 is new and does what a phone should, keep you connected with people in these modern days through social networking, text, voice, and soon video calling.

First of all, the Samsug Galaxy does not run Android 4.0. In fact, Samsung announced that the Galaxy would not be getting this update. The Galaxy II (tabs and phones) will be upgraded to Android 4.0 sometime in the next few months. Regarding the rest, I am not surprised that you drink the Microsoft Coolaid. The simple fact is that the purchasing public does not care about WP phones. There are three such phones in AT&T. The Samsung Galaxy Focus S is about the same as the Galaxy SII (Android) but the latter way oversells the WP version. Sorry, no sale!!

 

[tseven]

One thing that I read that I don't like is that supposedly the code they use for the phone 7 will not be used which means it will be yet another new coding to learn to have something both compatible with the phone and the tablet/metro side of the desktop version. What were they thinking?

 

[ADRz]

I've used it all, android 2, 3, and 4 and iOS 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

You have used Android 4? In what device? (there is only one in the US and it has been available only for a few days!!)

I've used the Windows Phone 7 quite a bit. Have you even used it? You CAN add more storage with most phones, social network integration is quite deep. If by sideloading, you mean from computer to phone? I've never heard of such a term with phones, since I don't really understand using phones as PCs. The Windows Phone is still new, if modern hardware means a dual core processor, then no. Even then, a dual core isn't necessary as of now. It's still adding more hardware compatibilty as time goes on. For instance, in a couple months or so, LTE support will arrive, built in video calling with be there, more front facing cameras will come in, most likely better cameras in general. It took three versions of android to have LTE compatibility, almost a year when android 3.0 was release. It took the Windows Phone a year and half with one major update and one upcoming one.

No, I deem the android software as a jailbroken iOS. It's free, it has access to a ridiculous amounts of apps that are free, and you can customize it as one would wish. That's basically the definition of a jailbroken iphone.

Yes, I have used WP7. Read your description of it....most is still to come. You are aware that when you say "LTE will come", this does not mean that existing phones will become LTE capable, aren't you? It will mean that a couple of new phones would be released, this is all. Existing users would still have to deal with 3G. To this very day, Skype (an MS company) does not work in WP7 phones (most of which do not have front facing cameras anyway).

Yes, there would be a time in which WP7 would offer most of what is being offered by modern phones right now. The problem is that these other phones would have progressed beyond this point. As for your definition of "jailbroken", I would not go there!!!

Furthermore, knowing quite well that MS is going to junk the WP7 code, you would be "crazy" to go and buy a WP7 phone right now, as this technology will be shortly orphaned.

 

[Sonshi]

how did this thread turn into a mobile OS debate?

 

[vrosa]

how did this thread turn into a mobile OS debate?

So let's go on topic again

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Atleast my thread is thought provoking.

 

[ADRz]

how did this thread turn into a mobile OS debate?

It turned into a mobile OS debate because what you are getting with Win8 is just that, a mobile OS. Like all mobile OSes, it has a simplistic UI, runs all applications full screen, does not minimize or close them (it manages tasks on its own). The only difference of Win8 versus Android or iOS is that it it capable of running the old desktop as a task.

Now, you can achieve much the same thing under a variety of OSes. One can certainly run Windows as a task under OSX and there are excellent packages that allow you to do this. One can do the same thing with Linux. Thus, if you want to run the desktop applications and still have a full-power OS, a combination of a Linux disto and Win7 would probably do the job excellently.

However, if you need to have a mobile OS on your desktop, then Win8 is a good choice. My guess is that a number of OSes will soon be configured to do just this. So, it would not be unexpected if Google releases a version of Android 4.0 that runs the Windows desktop as a task. In that case, you would have a bit more of a choice and many, many more apps.

Win8 is a mobile OS and this is all it is.

 

[Brink]

   Warning

Let's keep the discussion on topic about Windows 8 shall we and not the other OSes.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

I would like that as well. And if we can get it back to my original content, and we can see what else is new with the upcoming release of the Windows 8 beta in February.

   Warning

Let's keep the discussion on topic about Windows 8 shall we and not the other OSes.

 

[Coke Robot]

I've used it all, android 2, 3, and 4 and iOS 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5.

You have used Android 4? In what device? (there is only one in the US and it has been available only for a few days!!)

I've used the Windows Phone 7 quite a bit. Have you even used it? You CAN add more storage with most phones, social network integration is quite deep. If by sideloading, you mean from computer to phone? I've never heard of such a term with phones, since I don't really understand using phones as PCs. The Windows Phone is still new, if modern hardware means a dual core processor, then no. Even then, a dual core isn't necessary as of now. It's still adding more hardware compatibilty as time goes on. For instance, in a couple months or so, LTE support will arrive, built in video calling with be there, more front facing cameras will come in, most likely better cameras in general. It took three versions of android to have LTE compatibility, almost a year when android 3.0 was release. It took the Windows Phone a year and half with one major update and one upcoming one.

No, I deem the android software as a jailbroken iOS. It's free, it has access to a ridiculous amounts of apps that are free, and you can customize it as one would wish. That's basically the definition of a jailbroken iphone.

Yes, I have used WP7. Read your description of it....most is still to come. You are aware that when you say "LTE will come", this does not mean that existing phones will become LTE capable, aren't you? It will mean that a couple of new phones would be released, this is all. Existing users would still have to deal with 3G. To this very day, Skype (an MS company) does not work in WP7 phones (most of which do not have front facing cameras anyway).

Yes, there would be a time in which WP7 would offer most of what is being offered by modern phones right now. The problem is that these other phones would have progressed beyond this point. As for your definition of "jailbroken", I would not go there!!!

Furthermore, knowing quite well that MS is going to junk the WP7 code, you would be "crazy" to go and buy a WP7 phone right now, as this technology will be shortly orphaned.

android 4 or some vanilla kernel is out on the samsung nexus.

Existing phones will not be LTE capable as due to hardware. The HTC Radar 4G is LTE ready. The Nokia Lumia 900 when it arrives will be LTE ready. The HTC Titan II will be LTE ready. The point is is that the WP7 has matured further since it's a wholy different OS from iOS or knockoffs. Skype doesn't work with WP since Microsoft recently aquired them. The next major update will have that, even then, there's an app that does that already for WP7.

You'd be crazy to think they'd scrap it. 2012 is the year of metro. 2012 is the year of Windows 8. 2012 is the year of the Windows Phone.

Anyways, yes, I'd like to discuss Windows 8...

 

[Coke Robot]

I'm really hoping to see a better PC Settings panel on a Desktop. To me, having a metro panel and a desktop panel causes a complete abrupt interface change that isn't fluid system wide. I'd want to see PC Settings windowed, metro designed, but more comprehensive like a desktop control panel. The metro PC Settings app should have the same thing done for tablets as well.

Also, there's this feature that comes with the Microsoft Touch Mouse that is the bomb. Instant Viewer. That would make power users pee their pants! What it does is takes ALL your active windows and puts them on a blackwashed desktop and it shows just the content of those windows. You can instantly view everything. I'd love to see a touch gesture for that on tablets and maybe a keyboard shortcut for desktops. Maybe Win + tab or alt.

 

[ADRz]

android 4 or some vanilla kernel is out on the samsung nexus.

Existing phones will not be LTE capable as due to hardware. The HTC Radar 4G is LTE ready. The Nokia Lumia 900 when it arrives will be LTE ready. The HTC Titan II will be LTE ready. The point is is that the WP7 has matured further since it's a wholy different OS from iOS or knockoffs. Skype doesn't work with WP since Microsoft recently aquired them. The next major update will have that, even then, there's an app that does that already for WP7.

You'd be crazy to think they'd scrap it. 2012 is the year of metro. 2012 is the year of Windows 8. 2012 is the year of the Windows Phone.

Anyways, yes, I'd like to discuss Windows 8...

First of all, you need to be very careful with WP7. If the rumors are true, MS may orphan this OS. As you know, the current crop of Win8 "Metro" apps are not compatible with WP7 (and vice versa). If MS moves the phone OS to the Win8 code base, then WP7 will be an orphan. This is quite likely to happen.

I have the feeling that this would definitely happen. MS cannot and would not maintain two shops with incompatible applications. Thus, I am afraid that WP7 will not be with us for too long!!!

 

[ADRz]

I'm really hoping to see a better PC Settings panel on a Desktop. To me, having a metro panel and a desktop panel causes a complete abrupt interface change that isn't fluid system wide. I'd want to see PC Settings windowed, metro designed, but more comprehensive like a desktop control panel. The metro PC Settings app should have the same thing done for tablets as well.

Also, there's this feature that comes with the Microsoft Touch Mouse that is the bomb. Instant Viewer. That would make power users pee their pants! What it does is takes ALL your active windows and puts them on a blackwashed desktop and it shows just the content of those windows. You can instantly view everything. I'd love to see a touch gesture for that on tablets and maybe a keyboard shortcut for desktops. Maybe Win + tab or alt.

Your wishes (expressed by great number of Windows fans) are unlikely to happen. Win8 is a mobile OS that runs the desktop as just another task (until the desktop disappears, I guess). It runs all applications in full screen and manages them in the background without user input. This behavior is typical of all mobile OSs. Now, if it is given the capabilities you want on the desktop, then this would mean a different Win8 for desktops and a different Win8 for tablets and phones. Essentially, the same dichotomy that exists between OSX and iOS or Android and Linux. For some reason, MS wants to have the same code base from phones to large desktops which means that large desktops will operate like huge, oversized phones.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Here's a cute little trick. Try it out.
With no Start menu in Windows 8, how do you find all the applications you have installed? The Metro apps will display their tiles, but what about the non-Metro programs? Here's how to see a list of them:

1. Hold down the Windows logo key and press F.
2. Click Apps.
3. In the displayed list of apps and applications (in alphabetical order), you can either launch a program by clicking it, or you can pin it to the Metro screen so you'll get to it more easily the next time.
4. OK, now we have this screen open scroll thru ALL those programs running, and find "System Information" click on it go to "Services" now look for the "Microsoft Store", you will notice it is turned off (g), go ahead and right click, and turn it on. Go on, and "Windows" shop, lots of cool things to see. (To bad we can't purchase anything yet.)