Sign in or don't bother

[Brink]

Sorry, but no. You must be signed in to a Microsoft account to be able to download, purchase, and install Metro Store apps.

It does let you know that you need a Microsoft account when you try to do this with a local account though.

Them's the breaks I'm afraid.

I realise that (now), but I thought/expected that I would be automatically signed in after doing so once, even in local mode. It doesn't really matter, however, as the apps are still pretty useless in a desktop environment. So much more could have been achieved, with a little more imagination and consideration for desktop users.

Nope. Only while signed in to a Microsoft account will you be signed in to the Store or Store apps (when opened) automatically.

You are able to sign in to the Store with any Microsoft account while signed in to either a local account or Microsoft account though.

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...-different-microsoft-account-windows-8-a.html

 

[Ray8]

Nope. Only while signed in to a Microsoft account will you be signed in to the Store or Store apps (when opened) automatically.

You are able to sign in to the Store with any Microsoft account while signed in to either a local account or Microsoft account though.

Again, I understand that; but that's exactly what I'm questioning. Why is it so?

 

[brummyfan]

One day, we all will be asked to sign in to start our PC/Laptop because the OS is in the "Cloud" and not in our hard drive, we may be asked to pay every time we switch on our PC/Laptop, thanks MS, you just lost another customer.

 

[mbratch]

I can understand having to login to the MS account to visit the app store. That makes sense. But what I don't like is being coerced into SkyDrive every time I want to do something simple, like connect to photos someplace other than my local PC. The Photo app won't let me connect to photos on Facebook unless I do it through SkyDrive. It won't let me just grab photos from a server on my own network. When I use Skype, why can't I just go right to my Skype account? Why does it try to force me to use Skype through an MS account? I find this quite annoying.

 

[Brink]

Nope. Only while signed in to a Microsoft account will you be signed in to the Store or Store apps (when opened) automatically.

You are able to sign in to the Store with any Microsoft account while signed in to either a local account or Microsoft account though.

Again, I understand that; but that's exactly what I'm questioning. Why is it so?

I don't know what else to say other than because that's just the way Microsoft made it to be.

 

[R0bR]

I realise that (now), but I thought/expected that I would be automatically signed in after doing so once, even in local mode.

if you are in local Mode how are the external services supposed to know what your local credentials are? That's the purpose of linking your local account to your MS account, it provides the federated services to allow it work. If you don't like it and don't want to use it then you are going to be asked to authenticate every time, no different than W7 so it should be something you are used to.

 

[SIW2]

Hard to tell how close that day is.

Not sure if you will have to pay each time you use your pc. That might be an option for low usage.

I expect there will be a monthly payment.

MS have lodged patents for their subscription systems - there could be a range of plans/prices/charging structures.

It makes sense for MS.

Folk pay monthly for the mobile phones - for their TV.

Something to look forward to.

One day, we all will be asked to sign in to start our PC/Laptop because the OS is in the "Cloud" and not in our hard drive, we may be asked to pay every time we switch on our PC/Laptop, thanks MS, you just lost another customer.

 

[Ray8]

if you are in local Mode how are the external services supposed to know what your local credentials are? That's the purpose of linking your local account to your MS account, it provides the federated services to allow it work. If you don't like it and don't want to use it then you are going to be asked to authenticate every time, no different than W7 so it should be something you are used to.

If I'm trying to access the app store, then clearly I'm connected to the internet. When I log on to this site, for example, I'm connected to the internet and the cookie that's been stored in my PC authenticates who I am and thus obviates the need to log in. I can do that with any number of sites that require authentication. I can delete those cookies if I wish and then I'm required to authenticate each time.

Considering that the app store is an integral part of Windows 8, I don't understand why that login/authentication doesn't happen when I log in to my PC. Even If I had to open IE to get to the app store, there's no reason why a cookie couldn't be stored which automatically authenticates who I am and allows full access. Windows 8 is supposed to provide a new, easy to use, experience. In so many ways it's not.

 

[steveb]

If you we're using a browser then a cookie could be set, it's part of web standards. BUT The App Store is not browser based and you are required to log in and authenticate in a proprietary system on MS servers. If you want to sell your soul to MS you can use an MS account instead of a local account on your PC otherwise you must log in each time you use an MS online service.

 

[Ray8]

If you we're using a browser then a cookie could be set, it's part of web standards. BUT The App Store is not browser based and you are required to log in and authenticate in a proprietary system on MS servers. If you want to sell your soul to MS you can use an MS account instead of a local account on your PC otherwise you must log in each time you use an MS online service.

I understand that fully, as I've said a number of times already. But my question is why do it this way? Windows 8 is supposed to streamline and make things easier and quicker, and considering that the app stores is displayed like any other app, surely Microsoft could have implemented something akin to cookies in web browsers.

Indeed, doesn't the app store actually open up as a web browser, only it doesn't look like web browser, or why could it not open up in a web browser? Everyone is telling me why it doesn't, or saying why it can't, or saying that's just the way it is. I'm suggesting something different. You know, moving away from doing things the 'old' way.

 

[steveb]

No it's not a web browser and is not web standards compliant, it is a proprietary application that effectively tunnels to the MS app server and doesn't use cookies.
MS want you to use an MS account for you PC login, that's why it's made that way. They want to control your data and push you into their cloud so that later they can charge you for it.

 

[IanS100]

So what happens if you don't have a Microsoft account or, heaven forbid, you don't have an email account at all, does W8 deem you to be persona non grata?

 

[steveb]

Yep

 

[Wenda]

It doesn't worry me unduly, as I've had a Hotmail a/c for like forever. I normally sign-in locally, but can logon to my Hotmail a/c whenever I want to d/l an app or whatever. I can then logoff and continue as normal. You do not have to remain logged-on to MS to use the OS, it runs just fine even if you've never connected to the internet at all. And none of the features that require logging-on to MS are essential services (yet?), and most have non-MS equivalents. Even the apps I've tried work if you're not logged-in, not always fully, but useably. Wenda.

 

[steveb]

As hotmail is the most commonly compromised email service it is not a good choice for a windows account if you store your personal stuff on SkyDrive. Once they have your Email account they have your login, the sync feature means they have your PC and all your files, they can steal your life!

If you choose to use an MS account to login or use SkyDrive get a proper secure email account, with a secure password and use SSL encryption.

 

[IanS100]

What/where do I get a secure MS account?

 

[steveb]

You get a secure email account from a proper email provider like your ISP, choose a secure complex password, and set encryption on the account so that your email and passwords are encrypted before being sent over the Internet. If you ain't paying for it they are making money out of it some other way like selling it on to all and sundry. Why do you think there is o much spam on HotMail & gMail?

Best way is buy yourself a domain, you then have a real personal email address, it's not very expensive and companies like 123Reg will provide a low cost email service which is secure and configurable. Only give to people or sites you trust.

Never ever use HotMail or Gmail as your real email account, it's ok to use for throw away stuff like forum logins, or registering on sites that are going to sell it on to someone who will bombard you with spam, but never never ever for personal communications.

You use that secure email address for your MS account when you set it up. And set a secure complex password for your MS login.

Or maybe I'm just paranoid.

 

[R0bR]

I understand that fully, as I've said a number of times already. But my question is why do it this way? Windows 8 is supposed to streamline and make things easier and quicker, and considering that the app stores is displayed like any other app, surely Microsoft could have implemented something akin to cookies in web browsers.

Indeed, doesn't the app store actually open up as a web browser, only it doesn't look like web browser, or why could it not open up in a web browser? Everyone is telling me why it doesn't, or saying why it can't, or saying that's just the way it is. I'm suggesting something different. You know, moving away from doing things the 'old' way.

You realize that your nice little cookies that log in for you are all in plain text? That means that any Trojan that gets onto your system gets easy access to that information. If you don't belief that for any reason then install LastPass and let it auto add all your web favourites that you log into automatically, it grabs your login info from your cookies to do that. Everything that requires login in the Modern UI is done so over HTTPS and is encrypted, if you don't want to link your account so that everything can be done using Single Sign On then don't but you will then have to authenticate every time.

 

[Ray8]

You realize that your nice little cookies that log in for you are all in plain text? That means that any Trojan that gets onto your system gets easy access to that information. If you don't belief that for any reason then install LastPass and let it auto add all your web favourites that you log into automatically, it grabs your login info from your cookies to do that. Everything that requires login in the Modern UI is done so over HTTPS and is encrypted, if you don't want to link your account so that everything can be done using Single Sign On then don't but you will then have to authenticate every time.

I fully understand how cookies work and they don't work like that, cookies do not store usernames and passwords unless the website your using specifically puts that information in the cookie. That's not going to happen with secure sites, but might happen with a site like eightforums. But that doesn't mean that sites can't inadvertently reveal user details, not matter what you're using to secure your details locally, or in the cloud.

I also don't like having my username/password details stored outside my own hard drive on some third party web site, so I'll leave Lastpass to those who trust others with their details. I also have all of my usernames/passwords (except banking ones) stored in one encrypted document. Anyone who might get that document in their mitts won't be able to access it.

It still doesn't answer the original question.

 

[Kari]

They do. It's called a Microsoft account that you can use to sign in to Windows 8 with, and will also sign you into the Store when you open it.

That's not what I want to do. I want to avoid 'the cloud'; what's on my PC, stays on my PC. What I was implying is something akin to accessing this forum. I allow a cookie to be installed, which remains persistent, so that any time I open the forum, I'm logged in. The same applies with my Outlook accounts, when I open Outlook, I can access all my email accounts without a separate login each time. Now would that be too difficult?

Nope. Only while signed in to a Microsoft account will you be signed in to the Store or Store apps (when opened) automatically.

You are able to sign in to the Store with any Microsoft account while signed in to either a local account or Microsoft account though.

Again, I understand that; but that's exactly what I'm questioning. Why is it so?

Ray, one of us has misunderstood something.

Just last Sunday I set up a Windows 8 Pro machine with 4 local accounts, not a single Microsoft Account. Doing it like this I totally understood that by default nothing on those user profiles / local accounts is tied to any Microsoft or other email accounts, but at the same time I could when need arises connect one or more services to whatever account I want to.

An example: Local account, installing first time from Store. When you click Install button, this dialog appears:



So what? Give your email and you are ready to install. As long as you do not manually edit registers Windows Store will never again ask your email address. However, this email address you used to install was only used to register your Store App and apps you might download from Store. If you now open Mail App it will ask again an Microsoft Account mail address and now you can use a completely different one here. it does not have to be the same (notice that for the system functionality, the email address used to register Mail App will also be used for Contacts, Calendar and SkyDrive).

When you want to "give your notice" to Microsoft simply delete the local account, select Delete files and create a new one. Simple.

Kari