Relative Ease in Understanding How Windows 8 Works

[znod]

I chose: I like Win8. How it works relative to other Win OS’s is moderately easy for me to understand.
Features I like are big clock &weather on lock screen.
I use Brink's All apps & Start screen shortcuts pinned to taskbar in addition to windows key
I like the no folders on All apps screen. It's more friendly for new users & long time users who were scared to open a folder because they didn't want to mess their computer up. After years of the start menu, they can find Paint without calling me.
The only con I can think of so far is Search. Then again, maybe I haven't found the adjustments yet.

Glad you replied. CU onboard.

 

[znod]

You can still vote.

I'm surprised more haven't voted yet. Based on the 26 responses to date

1. The majority (20 to 6) likes Windows 8.
2. The majority of those liking Windows 8 think how Windows 8 works relative to other Win OS's is very easy (9) or moderately easy (10) to understand (19 to 1).
3. Only two (2 to 24) think how Windows 8 works relative to other Win OS’s is not very easy to understand. One of these likes Win8, and one doesn't.
4. The majority (5 to 1) of those that not liking Windows 8 think how Windows 8 works relative to other Windows 8 OS's is very easy to understand.

These results lead me to the following tentative thoughts (but not conclusions):

(a) Those on board here tend to like Win8. This "strength" of this outcome surprised me. From reading what's onboard, I expected that a greater proportion would have indicated they do not like Win8.

(b) Those onboard here not liking Win8 do not think that's because they don't understand Win8. In this regard, we somewhat frequently see the opinion that those not liking Win8 don't understand it. I am not surprised at the "strength" of this outcome.

 

[Mystere]

(b) Those on board here not liking Win8 do not think that's because they don't understand Win8. In this regard, we somewhat frequently see the opinion that those not liking Win8 don't understand it. I am not surprised at the "strength" of this outcome.

Or, it could be a case of the Dunning-Kruger effect

Dunning

Often, people who don't know something think they know more than they really do, while those that know it quite a bit under-rate their skill (because they know just how much they don't know). We've all met people like this, particularly if we've spent any time doing help-desk or helping other people with problems with their computers. You know the type "I'm not stupid! I know how to use a computer" and then you're back at their house fixing their umpteenth virus infection.

Most of the people that claim they hate Windows 8, and that they know how to use it, also admit they only use it occasionally in a VM or as a dual boot. That really does not give one the experience of really using it day in and day out.

 

[znod]

You make a very good point. Unfortunately, our survey "technology" doesn't allow much in the way of dealing with needed "advanced" survey techniques and unwanted effects. Still, I tried only to gather data on those thinking they have a reasonable basis for selecting a response knowing about the sort of effect you mention. But, yes, we can't guess how many replying with don't like Win8/how it works relative to other Win OS’s is moderately or very easy for me to understand really have a reasonable basis, from the perspective of another let's say more sophisticated and more diligent user, for selecting that response. It's also true that we can't guess how many replying with like Win8/how it works relative to other Win OS’s is moderately or very easy for me to understand really have a reasonable basis, from the perspective of another let's say more sophisticated and more diligent user, for selecting that response--for one reason or another.

 

[znod]

You can still vote. Why not? Just see first paragraph of post #1.

Summing up again with 31 votes in.

1. The majority (22 to 9) likes Windows 8.
2. The majority of those liking Windows 8 think how Windows 8 works relative to other Win OS's is very easy (10) or moderately easy (11) to understand (21 to 1).
3. Only three (3 to 31) think how Windows 8 works relative to other Win OS’s is not very easy to understand. One of these likes Win8, and two don't.
4. The majority (7 to 2) of those that not liking Windows 8 think how Windows 8 works relative to other Windows 8 OS's is very easy (5) or moderately easy (2) to understand.

These results still lead to the following tentative thoughts (but not conclusions):

(a) Those onboard here tend to like Win8. This "strength" of this outcome surprised me. From reading what's onboard, I expected that a greater proportion would have indicated they do not like Win8.

(b) Those onboard here not liking Win8 do not think that's because they don't understand Win8. In this regard, we somewhat frequently see the opinion that those not liking Win8 don't understand it. I am not surprised at the "strength" of this outcome.

 

[brummyfan]

Znod;


I think that you are as smart as they come. Very astute and knowledgeable. Much appreciated.


However, I simply do not understand this apparent obsession to canvass users of Win 8 ????????

90% of Win 8 users are totally clueless and inappreciative. Essentially brain dead.

Does that fit your model ?

Where did you get the figure 90%?

 

[wetibbe]

Reply

Hi Bummyfan:

I take your query entirely legitimate and deserving of a cogent answer.

I based my percentage figure on my observations of several forums, evaluated the questions and weighed the answers and responses to responses. Whereas I do not consider any of the posters or their questions as dumb, or inappropriate or pejorative, none-the-less it is patently obvious that MOST are conspicuously unfamiliar and that is of course completely natural since Win 8 has just been recently released. BUT - it is also obvious that many, if not most, are asking mundane, basic questions on the forum, that already have answers elsewhere. Certainly it has to be recognized that these Win 8 forums are very valuable and contributing a great civic service to fellow computer aficionados. I definitely support and endorse them wholeheartedly. These forums are problem specific and do not altogether provide total schooling and orientation notwithstanding the abundance of tutorials available.

There are a percentage of respondents, moderators, administrators who can be understood as having a very high degree of expertise and also very impressive experience. I haven't as yet seen even one who gave a patently false reply. I don't know their disciplines, education, experiences, nor even their names. Some questions lamentably do fall into a category of being beyond the scope and experience of the average well informed poster/participant. These come under the purviews of IT Professionals *( Intelligence Technology Professionals ). I have seen several questing that stumped the average expert on these forums. I have a queue now of 5 such problems with a 6th in the works and a 7th developing. I even went on the Microsoft forum and got dissatisfaction. I'm now on the Microsoft IT Professional forum.

Further, I have been studying Windows OEM and Windows 8 Pro and finding differences. I spend hours daily *( I'm retired ) studying all of the nooks and cranny's *( With expert professional information ) and I am not even as yet half way into understanding the VAST aspect of this OS. BTW I have gone through every Microsoft OS since 1983 ).

Even after all of this I have to say that there is a basic lack of true data to base my 90% on. So as typical in these USA's we have a saying. It's a SWAG - a Scientific Wild XXX Guess.

My subliminal motive is to encourage my fellow computer practitioners to broaden their horizons, stand up, pull up their knickers and stop taking the path of least resistance, It takes effort and practice, practice, practice and enthusiasm as well as determination.

 

[brummyfan]

Hi Bummyfan:

I take your query entirely legitimate and deserving of a cogent answer.

I based my percentage figure on my observations of several forums, evaluated the questions and weighed the answers and responses to responses. Whereas I do not consider any of the posters or their questions as dumb, or inappropriate or pejorative, none-the-less it is patently obvious that MOST are conspicuously unfamiliar and that is of course completely natural since Win 8 has just been recently released. BUT - it is also obvious that many, if not most, are asking mundane, basic questions on the forum, that already have answers elsewhere. Certainly it has to be recognized that these Win 8 forums are very valuable and contributing a great civic service to fellow computer aficionados. I definitely support and endorse them wholeheartedly. These forums are problem specific and do not altogether provide total schooling and orientation notwithstanding the abundance of tutorials available.

There are a percentage of respondents, moderators, administrators who can be understood as having a very high degree of expertise and also very impressive experience. I haven't as yet seen even one who gave a patently false reply. I don't know their disciplines, education, experiences, nor even their names. Some questions lamentably do fall into a category of being beyond the scope and experience of the average well informed poster/participant. These come under the purviews of IT Professionals *( Intelligence Technology Professionals ). I have seen several questing that stumped the average expert on these forums. I have a queue now of 5 such problems with a 6th in the works and a 7th developing. I even went on the Microsoft forum and got dissatisfaction. I'm now on the Microsoft IT Professional forum.

Further, I have been studying Windows OEM and Windows 8 Pro and finding differences. I spend hours daily *( I'm retired ) studying all of the nooks and cranny's *( With expert professional information ) and I am not even as yet half way into understanding the VAST aspect of this OS. BTW I have gone through every Microsoft OS since 1983 ).

Even after all of this I have to say that there is a basic lack of true data to base my 90% on. So as typical in these USA's we have a saying. It's a SWAG - a Scientific Wild Ass Guess.

My subliminal motive is to encourage my fellow computer practitioners to broaden their horizons, stand up, pull up their knickers and stop taking the path of least resistance, It takes effort and practice, practice, practice and enthusiasm as well as determination.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[znod]

Hi Bummyfan:
I take your query entirely legitimate and deserving of a cogent answer.

Interesting to know. Wondered too. Thanks. You could do a poll:

If you are a Win8 user, then are you totally clueless and inappreciative--essentially, brain dead?

Yes
No

 

[wetibbe]

xxx

 

[znod]

Edit: Hummmmm. The words in your reply to my post 29 disappeared.

No, I said "You could do a poll: ."

And, of course, it was a joke. To me, plain smilies (some say smileys) can mean, among other things, kidding, joking, etc., depending on the context. "Better expectations" of me? I hope not. We need a lot of humor in this world.
Maybe I should have used or or in the right places.

 

[whs]

I have not voted because I neither like nor dislike Windows 8 - and that was not a voting option. I run it (in a virtual machine) mostely for study purposes. It is interesting and not really difficult to use - just a little cumbersome on a desktop. But for my daily use I will stay on Windows 7 which is more convenient.

 

[Ray8]

I'm very much of the same view. I'm pragmatic about what it is, but it's not there yet for me and whether it ever will be is something else.

 

[znod]

I have not voted because I neither like nor dislike Windows 8 - and that was not a voting option. I run it (in a virtual machine) mostely for study purposes. It is interesting and not really difficult to use - just a little cumbersome on a desktop. But for my daily use I will stay on Windows 7 which is more convenient.

Right, you rejected the "forced choice" I mentioned in post #1. No problemo. I also only use Win8 for only study (and posting) purposes--and Win7 for more serious purposes on my desktops.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I voted the first choice. I began with RP back in early June dual booting with 7. It was quite different I must say. Kind of shocking in a way at first. A lot of changes from past OSs for sure, especially the new Modern UI with it's Start Screen (redefined Start Menu) and how it takes precedence over the desktop as we knew it. Those two flip-flopped from pass OSs in a way. A concept that wasn't difficult for me to understand whatsoever. It took me two or three days to learn and comprehend the new items such as tiles/live tiles, Charms Bar, hot corners, additional right clicking for menus, MS Store apps verses legacy desktop programs concept, and specific 8 OS keyboard shortcuts and hotkeys. I've always been a big user of the latter, so it didn't take me long to start navigating fairly quickly.

As a big keyboard shortcuts and hotkeys user with mouse antipathy I dare say I'm getting around faster in 8 than I did in 7, even though 8 is designed to be more touch-centric. It's ironic to me. It took me roughly two or three weeks to gain full speed at navigation. I very rarely used the Start Menu in past OSs, for I used desktop shortcuts and pinning to the Taskbar. The only thing I used the WinKey for was to open the Start Menu and arrow key right to the power button options, mostly to shut down. I use the WinKey a lot in 8. Push it once for Start Screen. Push it again to return to previous screen. All in all, 8 seems to be more fluid to me.

It took me approximately a month to understand where MS is going with this new UI concept. More internet and cloud centric data. That's where they're all going, so no surprise to me. I was using it in 7 with gadgets and live feeds, so what I see is that 8 takes it farther with the MS Store, Apps, and live tiles. I'm getting more information quicker whether it be personal or nonpersonal all with one hotkey. I don't mind at all that the newly-defined Start Menu is all now on one screen and that it takes precidence. I can perform anything on the desktop portal that I could in 7 or previous, so no loss there. I can open all the windows there that I did in 7, again, no loss. I don't mind it whatsoever that apps open full windowed and that I can snap two. I see this as the best of both worlds, the old and the new.

All in all, I think MS did a better job in it's attempt to where computing is going than it's competitors. It caters to both enterprise and to the general consumption user. It think it to be rather ingenious.

 

[znod]

Thanks. Great synopsis of your view. I understand what you are saying. Just can't be as enthusiastic. I like 8 sort of OK. But, I still think that 8 is inefficient given what I want to do and how I want to do it. Among other things too many trips to metro, etc. Some things take too many steps in metro in general. And, I am not enthusiastic about the integration of metro and the desktop. Finally, as you know, I will be in cyberspace, but it will be my way or the highway. Not going to be under the thumb of any OS producer or any OEM.

 

[whs]

Not going to be under the thumb of any OS producer or any OEM

That's the spirit.

 

[Wenda]

Response just logged, Znod.

I selected option 1, like Coke Robot I was somewhat ill-at-ease at first, but quickly felt at home. Classic
Shell is installed, but I find that, between the Start Screen and the old Quick-Launch toolbar, I'm using
Classic Start less over time. It mainly remains to give some consistency between 8 and my other OSes.

Wenda.

 

[whs]

Here is a live example of a 'customer' I am helping on another Forum. It is a lot worse than we think.

My 80 year old sister just got windows 8 on her new HP. Hope I can figure it out for her! I still have Windows 7. Geek explanations assume a lot of understanding! What the heck is a lock screen? How does she get there? All the squares and apps available are very confusing to those of us who do not do Facebook, etc...All she wants is to check her email, look at things, be able to email back and forth, research a little (no icon for Google?) and check her bank account and play games on her game site, Pogo. I wish the 20 year trying to explain things to her at Best Buy had helped her with that, and given her written instructions and not just given her a canned lecture. I can see Internet Explorer is on there, but she does not understand that, so I will try to set up her email, etc. I have a screen shot of Windows 8, maybe I can help her. Hey, there are lots and lots of older folks who do not like the tablet format, and really do not use all those things!

And this is the post I put up to get them started. They sound like sweet old people who are worth the extra effort. I actually made this upload just for them.

Yeah, it looks like you guys really need help. But don't worry. We will take care of you. For starters I suggest you do 2 things:

1. Start your own thread rather than mixing into this thread. Then you get more attention.

2. I have uploaded a 'starter package' for your Windows 8 education. It consists of 2 PDF files. One is a very easy to read manual that explains Windows 8. The second is a control sheet for a series of Videos I have made a whiile ago explaining how to get around in Windows 8. On this control sheet you will see boxes with text telling you what the subject of each video covers. Click on that text and the video will play. You may be asked for a permission - just click 'Yes".

The 2 PDFs are in a Zip folder which you have to first unzip. You can download it from the link below. When you get to the Skydrive site, right click on the box that says:" Manual & W8 Video Tutorial". After the right click you click on Download. If you use the Internet Explorer, you have to go to 'Save as' on the bottom of the screen and select the folder where you want to save it - usually the Downloads folder is practical.

I will go to bed now but will be back tomorrow. Try to get started with those 2 PDFs. There is a LOT of useful information. If you have questions, come back here - but maybe in your own thread. Good luck.

This is the link:

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=475a...cid=475A0A48CA6D4035&id=475A0A48CA6D4035!1839

 

[znod]

Not going to be under the thumb of any OS producer or any OEM

That's the spirit.

Yehaaa!

And, I haven't said how I voted. While I don't by any means hate Win8, I voted that I don't like it because, despite having some good features, I don't like it relative to Win7.

Specifically, wave of the future or not, I don't like its phone/tablet focus--that has been pushed on us by MS. Both focuses (the other a desktop focus) could have been provided to us via MS--letting the user choose--without disregarding the other. It doesn't work for me to say no problemo with metro; just get some third party software and you'll be able to mostly avoid metro. I want to be able to choose the focus I want--with both provided by MS out of the box and with good integration. As implied, I think MS's integration of metro and the desktop is lacking. In general, I think Win8 often is inefficient given what I want to do and how I want to do it; requires too many trips through metro land; and takes too many steps to do some things. I am not enthusiastic about its flatness; the way metro works when running the metro apps (especially iExplorer); and its lack of glass. What happens immediately after starting a metro app is just plain ugly. There are other things I don't like about metro, but I've said enough.

What do I like about Win8 relative to Win7? I like some of the new security features and, for example, fast startup, in principle. I like refresh and reset (although I miss the ability to do a repair install). Having an MS account available is OK, although I seldom use one. I like playing with Win8--learning how it works and adjusting it so that it is more palatable to me. I probably have not made it clear that I think Win8 definitely is usable, especially given some "adjustment." In this regard, even though I am not big on having to use third party software to make an OS palatable, I am using some of the things from our tutorials that truly make things metro better for me. I am OK with the way some things work in change PC settings, although, in general, I prefer to use the control panel. OK, enough, enough. It's hard for me to think of things in metro. per se, that I really like and can get even remotely excited about.

I often mention that I am not into argument on what I say here when it comes to matters of opinion. So, I have no intention of debating the points I have made. I know that virtually everything can be debated with good points often being made on both sides. I really am kind of on the edge anyway. And, I hope this thread doesn't turn into argumentland, but, whatever. I am happy to hear any comments on what I have said. In this regard, I might clarify if I think I have been misconstrued or misunderstood.