I've come to a realization . . . .

[Frank1]

It is sad but it is true. I teach classes at a computer club with 800 members. 795 of those have no clue how to deal with a computer -.

That is why they come to your class. And let me make surethat I don't misunderstand you. Are you saying that those who do not understandwhat you are teaching are some sort of a moron? And are you implying that that those who cannot convert a number to binary are less than intelligent? That'sthe way I interpret what you are saying. If I am misunderstanding you (and it'spossible that I am) then I apologize. I believe that anyone who is trying tolearn but have a difficult time understanding should not be put down. You as ateacher should understand that for some it is much more difficult to graspthings than it is for others. I did some volunteer teaching for the 1st through3rd grade students in the guided reading program for one of our elementaryschools. Some tried as hard as they could but still had a difficult time.Again, if I am misunderstanding you, I certainly apologize.

 

[Ray8]

A good teacher believes that there is no such thing as a stupid question. The IT industry is not littered with good teachers. - Me

 

[whs]

I think you misunderstand.

1. I prepare my class materials with great care and detail and usually even make narrated videos or PowerPoint presentations that everybody can replay as many times as they want. And I make it very easy for them to find those. Problem is that nobody takes advantage of it.

Takes me a lot of work, but these people think I should have some magic drink. Here is an example of a class I held in early 2011. Download the materials and see for yourself. I think no 2 people (of 38) have bothered to study the materials.

2. People are 'moronic' - at least some. They come too late to the classes, leave early, don't do the homework if I ask them e.g. to install a program for the next session. When I ask them to bring their laptops the battery is not charged. They don't know how to connect to the WiFi, etc., etc. Now I am not saying that all attendees are like that, but many. They think for a class that costs only $2 per session (2 hours), it is not worth making an effort.

3. The binary conversion is not an intelligence test. But if you do not understand binary, you do not know how a computer works. How many people have you seen complain that they bought a 500GB HDD but got only 465GBs - one lady even wanted to sue Seagate for that reason. I had a hard time explaining the facts to her. I think she still did not understand but trusted my judgement.

For all the above reasons I gave up teaching this year. It's not worth it.

 

[Frank1]

I think you misunderstand.

1. I prepare my class materials with great care and detail and usually even make narrated videos or PowerPoint presentations that everybody can replay as many times as they want. And I make it very easy for them to find those. Problem is that nobody takes advantage of it.

Takes me a lot of work, but these people think I should have some magic drink. Here is an example of a class I held in early 2011. Download the materials and see for yourself. I think no 2 people (of 38) have bothered to study the materials.

2. People are 'moronic' - at least some. They come too late to the classes, leave early, don't do the homework if I ask them e.g. to install a program for the next session. When I ask them to bring their laptops the battery is not charged. They don't know how to connect to the WiFi, etc., etc. Now I am not saying that all attendees are like that, but many. They think for a class that costs only $2 per session (2 hours), it is not worth making an effort.

3. The binary conversion is not an intelligence test. But if you do not understand binary, you do not know how a computer works. How many people have you seen complain that they bought a 500GB HDD but got only 465GBs - one lady even wanted to sue Seagate for that reason. I had a hard time explaining the facts to her. I think she still did not understand but trusted my judgement.

For all the above reasons I gave up teaching this year. It's not worth it.

Perhaps I've been too judgmental on my comments. I'm surethat you are trying to do a good job and it could be very frustrating when youare trying but some lack the initiative to learn anything. So I really cannot judge you since I don't know you; and I really don't want to offend you. But would you agree with me that the word moronic is a pretty harsh word to use when referring to anyone? I hope that your other students appreciate what youare doing. I would also hope that you don't give up teaching. I'm sure it canbe discouraging but, I'm sure you are appreciated by some and that you are a great help to many.

 

[whs]

Maybe 'moron' is too harsh. As a foreigner, I may not appreciate the full semantics of the word. But in my experience, many of these people are just to lazy to learn. For them it's a social event more than anything else and often they babble during the class (they are mostly elderly women).

I have given many computer classes and presentations in many countries and in several languages since the mid 60s. I was invited to Japan and Australia for computer conferences and to similar activities in the US and in Europe. Maybe I expect too much from the audiance. But even beginners can come prepared and pay attention.

 

[Frank1]

I agree with what you say. I believe that a word in one country can have some whatof a different meaning in another. So I take back my criticism about it. Having the ability to teach in different countries is quite an accomplishment. It's too bad that so many do not appreciate it.

 

[Mustang]

I never owned a home PC until 1990, and had studiously avoided letting "modern technology" inavade my private life. When I finally caved in, it gave me an awareness of the problems faced by everyday Joes in the street, who are not tech savvy. And my heart really goes out to such persons who comprise probably 95% of PC users. And that's coming from my background of having a tertiary education qualification in electronic engineering ... although I had never really gotten into PCs. My brother is such a one, and calls computers "stone age technology".

I discovered that in order to use the help menu, you first needed to do a course to understand what the hell they were talking about. How can you be expected to know something you haven't been taught? What? Are we meant to be psychics?

The other major problem, which goes hand in glove with the first, is when non-savvy persons are asked to make choices about adding/deleting/ignoring things about which they don't have a clue! Freeware is notorious for optionnal add-ons, but even many programs/apps purchased retail still have optional bloatware. And unless you really know PC tech stuff most users wouldn't have the slightest idea of whether they should or should not have something, and opt for the "recommended" fast install as opposed to custom install. Hence they cop all the crap. I still oftern struggle to know whether certain things are necessary or dangerous to leave in or out. In the early days I always loaded every module of every program, like Office for example; or Nero. And constantly ended up with a heap of bloatware.

I constantly get friends/acquaintances ringing up after they have updated a program. For example one guy did an update and found he kept a thing called "Uniblue" popping up during boot up every time her turned on his PC . He didn't have a clue how it got there or how to get rid of it. And why would he? Earlier on I had reloaded Windows for him and left it in pristine condition. However, I knew it was only a matter of time, and that after a few updates and using the "recommended" settings to install, it would soon be a mess again. Which it was.

The problems are inherent in the nature of the beast!

The truth is PCs are NOT simple machines! You don't get to drive a car without adequate instruction and passing a test. And to have any hope of using a PC continuously and successfully, it is essential to take some kind of instruction course. Unfortunately most people don't want to know about it. They just want to pick it up and use it like dialling a telephone.

A few ago I built my first radio control plane. It took 2 months to build, and 20 seconds to destroy on it's maiden teat flight. I had been advised by the guy in the model shop that despite the fact that I'd flown light aircraft, RC models were a totally different ball game and I should use an instructor. But of course I knew better! lol! So I ate humble pie and did the smart thing and got an instructor, and finally got my wings a few weeks later, without another smash.

I knew another guy who learned how to fly by hands on experience without an instructor. It took him 20 smashed modes planes and 2 years to do it, not to mention endless hours of building and repairing.

Computer hardware is an exact science. Electronic components obey the laws of physics and always do exactly what those laws dictate. Similarly computer programs faithfully do what the commands tell them to do. But the components are made, and commands are written, by fallible human beings, and therein lies the problem.

There is an endless plethora of companies and programmers manufacturing and writing software and they are all put on one PC and not expected to conflict and work seamlessly. Hardy ha ha! Hell, I know a lot of techos and PC savvy persons who have enough trouble dealing with such problems without expecting Joe public to know how to deal with them.

And then of course there are the hackers and malcious software persons who seem to derive their sense of life purpose by disrupting other persons lives.

After 13 odd years, which seems like 3 life times, of obsessively delving into the mysteries of "computer world", I think it's fair to say that I am above the average user. However, I acknowledge that there is a lot more I don't know than I do know!

Phew! That's my 2 cents worth! Hang on ... better make that $2 worth!

 

[Ray8]

I never owned a home PC until 1990,...

I had my first home PC nearly 20 years prior to that. My first mobile phone had more processing power than my first computer.:shock:

 

[whs]

I agree with what you say. I believe that a word in one country can have some whatof a different meaning in another. So I take back my criticism about it. Having the ability to teach in different countries is quite an accomplishment. It's too bad that so many do not appreciate it.

Frank, I will live. I have other hobbys too. At age 75, I take a relaxed view of these things. I know I am not going to change the world - just wanted to make it a little easier for a few.

 

[Ray8]

Frank, I will live. I have other hobbys too. At age 75, I take a relaxed view of these things. I know I am not going to change the world - just wanted to make it a little easier for a few.

At 75, let everyone else figure out for themselves how make things easier.

 

[Mustang]

At age 75, I take a relaxed view of these things. I know I am not going to change the world - just wanted to make it a little easier for a few.

I dips me lid to you WHS!

I have enough problems dealing with the English language. I think you deserve a Victoria Cross for bravery in attempting to convey the connotations and idiosyncracies of computer concepts and usage to persons in a language foreign to your own tongue.

Well done! :thumb:

I do think the retailers have a lot to answer for regarding PC related usage problems. All they are mostly interested in is making a sale, and mis-lead buyers into thinking it's as simple as ABC. On a few occasions I have "dumbed myself down" when talking to such sales personnel, so they'll open up. And it's amazing some of the utter garbage they are handing out.

Fortunately, IMHO, (or unfortunately, depending on your point of view), with modern education, you can't even finish primary school without a basic knowledge of PCs. And for those who complete high school, you couldn't survive that far without a thorough working knowledge.

 

[whs]

Thanks for the flowers. One foreign language is easy - try 3 at the same time.

That happened to me with a government agency in Roumania. During 2 very hot summer weeks (100F and no AC) I was asked on very short notice to educate a bunch of university professors and their staff in computer principles of operation. I had class materials that I had originally prepared for German customers - in German. The class in Roumania I tought in French (French is the primary foreign language there) but always explained the technical terms in English because they would have to read a lot of English materials. The audience was very often asking questions in Roumanian (which I kind of understood - kind of). And those guys were no dummies. You had to be on the ball. I still remember this one brilliant person - Dr. Botez - 23 years old and a Phd in mathematics.

After these 2 weeks I was ready for a break. We (my wife was with me) went to the shores of the black sea.

PS: I just Googled it. Could have been this guy: Mihail H. Botez, 54, Envoy and Futurist - NYTimes.com

 

[xeno]

Great posts. Personally, I've loved every version of Windows, and DOS as well. I just love learning and tinkering with what's new and figuring out how best to implement it as a productivity tool. I totally relate to the posts describing the struggles with relatives or others that don't know how to use computers - I've run into many a stubborn person who gets angry or upset when I try to change or upgrade something they have asked me to do for them. I've come to realize that many like clicking and seeing the same exact thing on their computers every time they start them - forever. I try and be more sensitive to those who don't have my good fortune when working on their machines, and explain things the best that I can.

 

[Mustang]

Thanks for the flowers. One foreign language is easy - try 3 at the same time.

That happened to me with a government agency in Roumania.

OMG! Roumanian! Add a Purple Heart to the VC and wear it proudly on your chest!

After these 2 weeks I was ready for a break. We (my wife was with me) went to the shores of the black sea.

Hell Ready for a break! I'm amazed you didn't have a break down!

My son's girl friend lives is in Brussels, and she is a foreign language teacher at University level, (5 tongues), and he tells me that even though English is fairly widely understood in Belgium, he still struggles when he spends time there. And she still struggles with the local Aussie idiom when Down Under. I couldn't resist saying to my son: "A woman with 5 tongues! Aaaaahhhh! One is enough already!"

Cheers M

 

[whs]

M, I am a rugged specimen. Have seen tougher times than that. What I really hated all the time were all those long flights - too boring. Nowadays at least I can play with my tablet.

 

[Ray8]

Nowadays at least I can play with my tablet.

But is it a tablet, or a tablet? If that doesn't make sense, I'm just being a tad tepid.

 

[pcRat]

Ask the kids to convert the number 30 to binary and then to hexadecimal. Those that come up with 0001 1110 and 1E are the winners.

Why is that so important to average user for email, games & social sites? Am I really stupid for not knowing that without googling it? Or are you really smarter because you know something that I don't?

 

[Coke Robot]

Ugh....

I'm not even old and this is true.

You meet people (like at best buy/local amazon showroom) that THINK they know things, but when you talk to them it becomes clear as day how so.....uninformed people are.

I'll rant.

See, I've come across several people that think they know about technology. They all use a higher end android smartphone. Put a PC in front of them and have them deal with a simple issue, like running a troubleshooter, it all falls apart. They're confused, they don't know what's happening or what to do. So they kill it and restart the PC like if it was a phone.

It seems that my generation LITERALLY doesn't know crap about technology, granted yes, we know how to use and adapt to new technology quickly but when it comes to understanding it and troubleshooting something simple, it's off to best buy and/or the geek squad. It's absurd.

 

[caperjack]

Ask the kids to convert the number 30 to binary and then to hexadecimal. Those that come up with 0001 1110 and 1E are the winners.

and if that what you want to teach the average computer user ,then no wonder they said it was hard to follow ,i know windows ,i have built and repaired many a computer and would not know the answer ,so i will flunk ,lol

I'm59,[stopped paying attention in grade 6]my first computer was bought used in 1996, , 386/1meg ram ,40meg hdd[doubled spaced ,to80] win 3.11 ,and i plugged it in and just sat there waiting for it to do something ,looked really hard and found the power button ,then what ,never had a clue, it was bought for my daughter for Christmas ,so i had to wait till then to use it .

 

[Frank1]

The title of this post was, I've come to a realization.After reading all the comments I, too, have come to a realization and it isthis: In our communication with on another we must take into account twoimportant facts. The first fact is that we are communicating with written textand not face to face conversation. The second fact, and possibly the moreimportant fact is that we are not conversing with our next door neighbor. Wehave the privilege of communication with others in a different land who speak adifferent language. A particular word in our own country can have a different connotation.It is therefore easy to misunderstand the point that the other is trying tomake. So we must therefore go easy when we criticize one for what he/she hassaid. At my age of 81 (or as the kids would say) 81 and a half going on 82, Ihave come to that realization. To all who took part in this conversation, Iwish a most pleasant day.