Apps vs Programs Question

[Ron AKA]

OK, here is what my Apps screen looks like. I was thinking the two columns on the left were "Apps". Perhaps they really are a mix of real Programs and Metro Apps. I just tried clicking on Lightroom from this screen and it switched me back to the Desktop and opened a Desktop Window.

 

[mdmd]

Just because I hate it, doesn't mean I don't KNOW all about how it works and how to use it, thats a misconception.

Besides, it's the Desktop side that we are responding to in these forums, very rarely the Metro side.

True, and the Desktop side is more important, now.

very rarely the Metro side

People hate the metro, including Ron AKA. sorry if incorrect.

I believe most critics respond to the UI and have no knowledge of its purpose other than conspiracies about profit.

 

[mdmd]

If you got sent to the desktop, then it is a desktop application.

See that little minus in the bottom right corner, try that.

 

[XweAponX]

That will allow you to move your tiles around and arrange them how you want.

The Profit-Conspiracy theories don't just apply to MS< but to all devices that have a store. You have to ask yourself, why do they allow these things in the store? For Apple, it is because of the 165 plus dollars they get paid for placing it in the store, same thing with placing Music in itunes, you think they do that for free?

Look at this TEN dollar app, called "Worship" - I imagine this is made for churches, so they can put their words up on a screen. Well? Usually Programs like this have a database that it plugs into, so you can put up the Jesus song you want to play:

This is TOTALLY Empty. Would you pay 10 bucks for a totally empty program? Granted, I can see uses for this, but for 10 bucks there should be some CONTENT in there.



Otherwise, they should just use Powerpoint, which is what they normally do. I know, cos I've helped build databases like that for them. They have a service that provides them with all of the words, they can download them and stick them into a PPT presentation.

 

[Ron AKA]

Yes, I will admit to hating the Metro interface. The only thing that will change that opinion is a Metro App that is useful to me, that I can't run in a Desktop Window. Don't know of any.

That aside, I do mostly like the screen below. I don't really like how I get there, which is through the Charms, and Search. But it is the closest thing I have found in Windows 8 to replace the Start Menu. What I would like to do to it is make it easier to access, like by pressing the Windows key. However, that takes me to the Start screen which I find totally useless. If I could eliminate the Start screen I would be happy. And I would also like to eliminate the Metro Apps icons from the screen. What I don't understand is why at least in Win8 do certain Apps/Programs get listed in that two column list on the left? Some are duplicated again on the more complete categorized list, and some are not. It almost seems random, or would it have been something I picket when I installed them?

Is this Apps screen there in Win8.1? Can it be customized? Or am I better off trying to customize the Start screen to make it look more like the Apps screen below? It seems like setting this software up to run from the Desktop is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole!

 

[mdmd]

That will allow you to move your tiles around and arrange them how you want.

uh, it was to minimize all apps into sorted blocks, not minimize the start screen.

Would you pay 10 bucks for a totally empty program?

I have no use for such a program, but someone else might if they use the application for more than 30 seconds.

No one is touting that WinRT is perfected, but it does serve a purpose. And views on profit vary.

 

[mdmd]

Is this Apps screen there in Windows 8.1? Can it be customized? Or am I better off trying to customize the Start screen to make it look more like the Apps screen below? It seems like setting this software up to run from the Desktop is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole!

Yes it can be customized. My suggestion is to unpin everything from the start screen then pin ONLY what you need to use. There is nothing wrong with installing classic shell or Start8 or something else.

You can use both or any number of methods to get around in Windows.
It is not necessary to obsess with the metro.

 

[Ron AKA]

There is nothing wrong with installing classic shell or Start8 or something else.

I would prefer to play within the bounds of the Windows sandbox and avoid the third party solutions.

 

[mdmd]

I like your attitude, that's good, and many would agree. But you know, Third Party solutions mean different things to different people. Any application like Corel paint, or Photoshop, or Adobe whatever is third party. All customization tools are 3rd party. I use Windows Blinds, Decor8, Winstep, Launch8, Deskscapes, Video Wallpaper, Animated Wallpaper Maker, Oblytile, Free Studio... and the list goes on and on. They are all 3rd party. Personally, I prefer a customized metro start menu system but I also like NextStart because it floats and is not parked in the bottom left corner. Whatever works for you. Some folks like to plaster their desktop with 150 icons. Basically, their wallpaper is made of icons. If that works for them, fine. I could not live with that. Anyway, take care... to be continued.

 

[XweAponX]

How did you get the shortcuts you wanted into the "ProgramData>Start Menu" folder, it's a locked folder. If I had just one link to open my Start Menu on the Start Screen, I may use it more.

Yah I mean that I use the - button on the lower right to arrange blocks of programs sometimes, plus give them all names. It's different in 8.1.

 

[mdmd]

http://www.eightforums.com/general-...id-word-new-start-screen-apps.html#post299930

This may not be what you are looking for. It is basically a way to list everything full screen ...
instead of using a classic start menu.

How did you get the shortcuts you wanted into the "ProgramData>Start Menu" folder, it's a locked folder.

 

[Ron AKA]

OK, after reading and re-reading the articles on this issue, I think I have finally come to a reasonable solution. While it didn't sink in the first time, this article, "The Metro Hater's Guide to Windows 8.1", actually details almost exactly what I want to do. In short summary:

1. Delete all the Metro Apps, save perhaps the Store, just in case MS forces me to use it to do further upgrades.
2. Select the Navigation option to boot direct to the Desktop instead of Start
3. Select the option to show the Apps view when I click (left) the Start button
4. Select the option to show Desktop Apps first in the Apps view
5. Arrange the Apps screen by Category
6. Pin my most used Desktop Apps to the Taskbar (which I already do)
7. Delete all the icons I have collected on the Desktop ( which was my pre Win8 practice)

That seems to solve everything except for shutting down. However it appears that can be accomplished in 8.1 using Microsoft's standard intuitive method of Stopping by clicking on the Start button (right clicking this time, so it is not too intuitive!), and selecting the shutdown option.

I still can't believe Microsoft is determined to make us go though all this goofy stuff just to get the computer work the way it should out of the box!

In any case thanks for the help in forcing me to think my way through this...

 

[Tweak Freak]

Hi Ron, read this thread to the end LOL. I'm a confessed metro hater too. I did the fresh install just today of a win 8.1 ISO and it went perfect.......Then I started gutting it mostly because I like lots of free memory and I use 3rd party imaging software and internal windows backups just bloat the system I personally like the classic shell program and turn off the charms crap. Just easier for me too use desktop for everything I need. For one button shutdown I just paste

C:\WINDOWS\system32\shutdown.exe -s -t 0

into a shortcut. Substitute -r where the -s is for reboot. i keep mine on the taskbar.

 

[davehc]

Well. I am using the Modern screen as my start menu, which I think was MS's intention. As in the older Windows 7 and earlier start menus, a lot of the items are placed a little deeper in sub menus, in order to avoid clutter. I am sure most users create their own sub menus as a finer requirement- This can lead, in the worse case, to something like four clicks to get to the item, probably seldom used.

In the modern screen, it is quite easy to limit it to those items that are used on a daily basis. The remainder are one key click away, and all visible in alphabetical order.

This is my ongoing effort, with 8.1. Obviously it will be modified as time goes by, but isn't that normal.

 

[Ron AKA]

Well. I am using the Modern screen as my start menu, which I think was MS's intention. As in the older Windows 7 and earlier start menus, a lot of the items are placed a little deeper in sub menus, in order to avoid clutter. I am sure most users create their own sub menus as a finer requirement- This can lead, in the worse case, to something like four clicks to get to the item, probably seldom used.

I guess my basic problem is that I don't understand the need for both a Start View, and an Apps View. They both basically seem to be the same thing, except the Start View uses large tiles which take up a lot of space, and by default it does not seem to include all software installed. I gather version 8.1 has some ability to reduce the size of the tiles, which I guess would help.

Are you suggesting that you can create tiles which open a sub menu of further associated applications? I can't see your screenshot well enough to see what is really on there. I guess what I am wondering is what is the advantage of using the Start View over the Apps View. The Apps view seems more functional, and I can't figure out why I need both.

 

[mdmd]

I guess my basic problem is that I don't understand the need for both a Start View, and an Apps View.

Hope this helps a little, maybe. Since you are asking, and this is why people hate the metro on the desktop.
The Start Screen is basically a touch device launch pad.
It is like a touch desktop. Which people believe does not belong on a PC.

The Apps view is the touch menu. It upsets people because there is no hierarchical submenu structuring. Everything is full screen.

http://www.eightforums.com/general-support/9789-all-apps-new-start-menu.html

I just like it because it is different than a menu bolted to the bottom left corner.
... which we have been using for 18 years.

Evolving the Start menu - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

[davehc]

It maybe a point of view.mdmd.

I do not see it at all, as you do in your linked thread. In the old text menu, there were several main items, with sub menus and sub sub menus. It started eith the item "Programs, for example. Inside Programs, there were folders such as Accessories and Computer Management. Some could even have further sub menus.

I wasn't trying to make a point, just showing how I have handled the Modern screen.

Windows 7::- Click the globe - click Programs - Click Accessories and you finally have another click to open the program you are seeking.
In mine. I am already in the modern screen. I can click any of my most used programs. If I decide I need to use one of the background progs, a single click of the arrow and all is there.

I cannot agree that it is only a touchscreen. It is just as suitable as a mouse click and play, as any that have gone before.
There is no hierarchical hidden sub menu system, all the items are visible. But, if that is too much to look at, they can be further divided into even more groups, which I guess the average user, as always, would quickly become familiar with.

 

[mdmd]

I cannot agree that it is only a touchscreen. It is just as suitable as a mouse click and play, as any that have gone before

I agree, don't mean to confront but I never said only. Where have I ever said only touchscreen?
I like it very much and think it is easier to use than a nested menu.
It is awesome with a mouse and keyboard, never said anything else.

My issue is with neatness. I am a neat freak. Therefore, I cannot live with a start screen that has hundreds of tiles. I am sure Coke Robot and Hypsie have a different point of view to mine.
Not my preference to have to scroll the start screen sideways.

In 8.1, you can reduce the size of tiles increasing the number available, which is good, but they are nameless unless one puts the mouse pointer on top of a tile to get a pop up title or knows each tile by icon.

That is why I, of which I am apparently the only one, like to use start screen hot key strokes (or in 8.1, all apps hot key strokes)... to find an alphabetical listing of one of 300 to 400 shortcuts available.

But still, it is undeniable, that with the MS plan to make all devices similar, i.e. phone, tablet, desktop, it was their intent to design an interface that is usable across different touch devices.
A desktop computer can have touch, but never touch only.

 

[mdmd]

It maybe a point of view.mdmd.
I do not see it at all, as you do in your linked thread.

Having fun with this topic, ha, ha. Well, I have seen some people describe the start screen as a menu. Yes, if they see the start screen as a menu, that is fine. My view is that it is a user configurable launcher.

I don't know why the all apps area might not be seen as a menu. It has all its structure defined by the Operating System. Everything is automatically sorted and grouped. That is the definition of menu.

The start screen is a random placement area like the desktop. Each to their own view.

 

[mdmd]

This is a funny thread. Remember this?

http://www.eightforums.com/general-support/9004-uncontestable-proof-metro-touch-only.html