A Possible Disaster With Windows 8

[GMan]

They're doing it to save money on licensing. Hopefully, the savings will be passed on to the consumers that purchase versions without the features. If not, it's "slimy." That's all I'm saying.

 

[fafhrd]

Who pays for the licensing of codecs in Linux, Videolan and other free to end user products, etc? Will the Windows 8 codecs and WMC still be available in Windows Embedded Standard 8 downloads for those developing STBs etc

 

[GMan]

Nobody does very likely, since I am guessing that Linux versions are mostly compiled in Europe, where the long arm of USA copyright has been unable to reach effectively.

As for VLC, I am completely sure that is the true case.

 

[fafhrd]

So we non-USA users could sue for a discount, or inclusion then, if MS does not include the feature? I'll have to write to my Euro MP.

 

[GMan]

I dunno - that would be lolz though for the win.

Here's what I'm saying, by Mike Lonewolf's buddy over at CNET, Ed Bott: https://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/if-vlc-can-ship-a-free-dvd-player-why-cant-microsoft/4962

"Well, on its “Legal concerns” page the makers of VLC open with a proud declaration: “VideoLAN is an organization based in France,” and “French law … is the only one to be applicable.”
If you skip to the bottom of the English portion of the page, you see why that matters. This is VideoLAN’s argument:

Patents and codec licenses
Neither French law nor European conventions recognize software as patentable (see French section below).
Therefore, software patents licenses do not apply on VideoLAN software."

​

 

[Calico]

Nobody does very likely, since I am guessing that Linux versions are mostly compiled in Europe, where the long arm of USA copyright has been unable to reach effectively.

As for VLC, I am completely sure that is the true case.

Quite true:
If VLC can ship a free DVD player, why can't Microsoft

Ubuntu also doesn't include certain proprietary codecs because of patent and copyright restrictions:
Restricted Formats

Edit: You beat me to it Gman

 

[tcman50]

Most things are never awesome the first time, things have to be invented first, then perfected as time goes on. Windows 8 and 9 are going to be transitional OS's, by the time Windows 10 rolls around it should really sweet.

Microsoft needs to change it's game plan and try to get into the mobile market, that's where the money is, Windows 8 is a start for them, if you don't like Windows 8 then don't buy it.

 

[GMan]

Microsoft needs to change it's game plan and try to get into the mobile market, that's where the money is, Windows 8 is a start for them, if you don't like Windows 8 then don't buy it.

I don't understand how this is a justification for taking a desktop OS and making it what 8 is. Just because they want or need to do something for whatever half-baked reason, that reason shouldn't affect actual computers being used by people old enough to have graduated H.S.

I won't be buying it, but would have liked to see something I would have, instead.

 

[chev65]

By removing the start button and making everyone deal with the Metro interface whether they like it or not, and also removing any way to play a DVD by default and removing WMC they have all but admitted this Op system is not meant to be used on a PC at all.

They also stripped away many useful features like network mapping and tons of other stuff.

I really think they left the PC market hanging out to dry on this one by not including the simple option for some type of PC mode which would have been all it takes to appease the masses.

Of course the same complaints are everywhere so this isn't something they aren't aware of. They certainly did need a good mobile Op system but it seems like a version with optional modes for both would have been better. Maybe Windows 9 will show some improvement towards the PC market again rather than catering to the mobile market which seems to be the case here.

 

[BillWindows]

Most things are never awesome the first time, things have to be invented first, then perfected as time goes on. Windows 8 and 9 are going to be transitional OS's, by the time Windows 10 rolls around it should really sweet.

Microsoft needs to change it's game plan and try to get into the mobile market, that's where the money is, Windows 8 is a start for them, if you don't like Windows 8 then don't buy it.

I don't find Windows 8 that transitional, a couple of days and it's not that much different to Windows 7. As far as MS trying to get into the mobile market, that's the funniest comment I've ever heard. They are turning themselves inside out and spending billions trying to get into the mobile market.
It looks as though it's finally starting to work, Wp7 has doubled its market share to 6% in Germany, and the rest of Europe, the UK and US has risen 1% to 4%, which is a great turn around considering it was plummeting beforehand.

 

[Gustavius99]

If any of you hotshots think you have the juice, Microsoft is hiring in Seattle. They really are. A beautiful city and one of the hottest jobs in the US and you could have a new life and make some flashy tiles for us.

 

[jimbo45]

You're friend wasn't the only one to like DOS only, even though I ran Windows 3.11. I spent a lot more time in DOS. Everything was much quicker, games were just not runnable in Windows and Word Perfect was much better in DOS.

Hi there
with the hardware available at the time no surprise there -- but once Word for Windows (pre Office) and EXCEL came out Windows 3.11 really did make History out of DOS -- and of course with decent hardware (for that time) Windows 3.11 actually ran OK and was the first decent piece of Groupware available as an alternative to the absolutely HATED IBM text base mainframe system (PROFS).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[mac173]

I just started using 8, and will be loading it onto my laptop tonight. In my limited usage so far, I see nothing in 8 that makes me want it on a desktop computer. For my personal use, it adds exactly zero for me. Looking at it for business applications, I also do not see any use for it in a desktop. The MetroUI is designed for touch screens. I do not see a great number of business computers going to touch screens. People already complain about hand and arm fatigue from using a keyboard, what do you think will happen if you have to hold you arms in the air to touch the screen on the desk in front of you?

IF 8 is the MS entry to mobile computing, then the UI makes sense. IF it is truly intended for desktops, I think most buisness will stay away.

Personally, I think MS has missed the boat. Smart Phones and Tablets are dominated by Unix based software that is reliable and well liked by its users. These systems are well entrenched in the marketplace and already using the technoligies (wireless, cloud, streaming, social) that the MetroUI is trying to make more accessable. I think it is too little, too late. If I went with a mobile device today, I would NOT use MS to run it. Why? Apple and Droid have already proven to be easy to use, popular, and reliable. I think companies will think the same way, and MS sales are based on a Corporate backbone. If companies do not buy, it will flop just like Vista.

 

[BillWindows]

I just started using 8, and will be loading it onto my laptop tonight. In my limited usage so far, I see nothing in 8 that makes me want it on a desktop computer. For my personal use, it adds exactly zero for me. Looking at it for business applications, I also do not see any use for it in a desktop. The MetroUI is designed for touch screens. I do not see a great number of business computers going to touch screens. People already complain about hand and arm fatigue from using a keyboard, what do you think will happen if you have to hold you arms in the air to touch the screen on the desk in front of you?

IF 8 is the MS entry to mobile computing, then the UI makes sense. IF it is truly intended for desktops, I think most buisness will stay away.

Personally, I think MS has missed the boat. Smart Phones and Tablets are dominated by Unix based software that is reliable and well liked by its users. These systems are well entrenched in the marketplace and already using the technoligies (wireless, cloud, streaming, social) that the MetroUI is trying to make more accessable. I think it is too little, too late. If I went with a mobile device today, I would NOT use MS to run it. Why? Apple and Droid have already proven to be easy to use, popular, and reliable. I think companies will think the same way, and MS sales are based on a Corporate backbone. If companies do not buy, it will flop just like Vista.

You obviously have never used Android and iPad tablets. I'm a bit of a tech nut and have to try everything. I have an Android phone an Android tablet an iPad 2 and an iPad3.
While Android is quite good especially after an update to ICS its still not windows. The ipads are more responsive and have a few very good Apps, I litterally feel like I'm playing in a sandpit. While you can get Apps to do a fair bit on the iPad its very restrictive. I've also got a couple of old Netbooks running XP and Windows 8, and installed an extra gig of ram, I still find I'm using these more than the tablets, although they're closing in.
I like using Windows 8 because it gives me the best of both worlds, a tablet interface and a desktop interface. Me personally, I think Windows 8 on tablets will be a huge hit and I think for companies it will be the same.

 

[tseven]

They definitely missed the boat. That year the ipad came out they should have had their own tablet. They should have thought about the tablet since whenever they first talked about it. I mean since with all the time between XP and vista someone should have been working on a tablet based system. It still needs a lot of work even for a tablet system. A lot of the apps just keep crashing so it definitely doesn't feel like you can use both the desktop and metro.

 

[BillWindows]

Nobody has missed the boat, if that were the case Apple wouldnt even be in business. The Xbox is a good example of being late and still becoming a leader and so is the iPhone and iPad. If you have the right product people will buy, its as simple as that, even Windows phone7 is now starting to gain traction, up to 6% market share in Germany and 4% for the rest of the world.

I havent had one App crash on 3 Windows 8 machines, just one bit of a freeze on my HTCP, which corrected itself.

 

[legacy7955]

The apprehension at MS is palpable, and....it should be.

MS is telling the desktop users to pound salt in so many ways, ​IF they refuse to implement a USER option to select which UI as their preferred default.

 

[kmint]

It is difficult to predict what will happen by now.

I am not sure that Microsoft will succeed with Windows 8 on any platform.

On desktop, it is a pain for the average user with no advantages at the moment but complications. Yes it is better, faster, more powerful... but not really noticeable for most people. The disadvantages are bigger than the advantages. This will mean a slow penetration, based on new devices more than upgrades, and still many will install windows 7 the first months or even first couple of years.

And the big point is the mobile devices. I am sure that Windows 8 wil run wonderful on phones and tablets, just like Windows Phone 7.5 does. But these cons: 1) people don't like it 2) it is late with apps 3) people are used to google and apple apps and won't accept missing them.

1) WP7 has so far failed because people don't like Metro and the tiles. Of course many love it, but just look at the sales. I don't like it. Most don't like it. We like icons and wallpapers, not huge tiles and boring horizontal scrolling and all letters and letters.

2) When will Windows 8 offer as many apps as Android and iOS have? Some day? When exactly? With such a small share, developers will probably continue focusing on Android and iOS, even more and more if the market keeps going on this direction. The gap might get even bigger.

3) Is Bing the same as Google? Not for most. Is Bing Maps the same as Google Maps? Not for most. And so on and so on. People are used to Google and Apple applications on mobiles by now. What does Microsoft have as a standard? Office and little more. Not even Internet Explorer anymore, specialy if IE is a totally different thing on a mobile device.

So... Microsoft is huge and perhaps they can make the whole world use W8 on desktops and then make them buy mobile devices to be always synchronized starting from their desktop dominance.

But maybe not and maybe we find just the opposite scenario. Maybe this risky move makes them lose the war in every place and even lose the desktops. Apple might offer cheaper desktops and products, Google might offer a good desktop (not Chrome OS)...

Anything can happen. If I had to bet now, I would say that Microsoft will need many many years to conquer a decent share of the mobile market if they do it at all, and that will keep losing desktop share.

But of course, I could be wrong.

 

[Tully]

I was rumaging aroud the other day & found my MS T shirt.

It says " I was there 95 Microsoft" I was "There" & at many others. I have a"Pocket Book" for CDs etc. from launch meetings.

The point is that I am a MICROSOFT user!

Now comes Win8. I am on the cusp of going back to W7. I did skip "Vista" Although I have one computer with it on it (A Gift)

I am too old (83) to do the required spelunking to use W8!

I am afried that MS has made a mish mash of this one! I have been in computers since day 1 & have 6 in my office.

Tully

 

[BillWindows]

@Tully, if I get to your age, which I doubt I will, I'd be saying the same thing, as you get older consistency becomes paramount for most people. I'm pretty sure I would stick withe Windows 7 as well.
Unfortunately the world has a habit of moving on, Lady Gaga is the most influential woman on the planet, men are getting married, America has a black President.

Apple has gone from 5% of the computer market to the biggest company in the world, Android is taking the world by storm.
Microsoft doesnt have any options, its do or die time, I actually saw this coming probably before Microsoft. I saw the rise of the iPhone and I spend a lot of time on the internet and I could hear the buzz around this contraption. Then when the iPad became a hit I knew MS was going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Also Android is becoming a huge power at the same time.

I hope the rabbit is Windows 8, if not Microsoft is in big trouble and wont be able to come up with anything else in time to stop the advance. Lets not forget though that Windows 7 took an awful long time to surpass Windows XP, some people dont like change.

Hopefully we'll be able to have this same conversation on your 93 birthday when Windows 10 hits the streets.