A Possible Disaster With Windows 8

[GMan]

DOS was the core basis of 3.11 and 95 alike. They were built on it and relied on it.

 

[Vince53]

Right you are, GMan. I remember that with 3.1 you could just go into DOS without starting Wndows.. I can't remember if you could do that with 95. The difference was that 3.1 was actually a DOS program that was run by DOS. 95 was integrated with the DOS into a single program. Later, DOS was dropped, with its remains serving as part of the Windows OS.

But my friend hated Windows. Period. He wanted to use DOS only.

 

[BillWindows]

You're friend wasn't the only one to like DOS only, even though I ran Windows 3.11. I spent a lot more time in DOS. Everything was much quicker, games were just not runnable in Windows and Word Perfect was much better in DOS.

 

[Vertex]

Now, what we have in the Consumer Preview is a beta build of an operating system, meaning, IT IS NOT COMPLETE. Sure, metro looks like a tablet UI on a Desktop's, but that's because the CP is showing off the metro, touch capabilities of Windows. Notice, how Microsoft's adverting of the CP includes nothing of the Desktop other than Office programs. Windows Explorer, Control Panel, ect., aren't shown. They may not be completed.

I know, it is Beta but its undeniable that M$ would not make a significant change from their beta OS to their RC and their released versions. The changes, tweaks or improvements will be very minor and that is based on past company behavior by Microsoft. Yes, its showing off the Metro that "YOU" and other Metro fanboys like that other people such as me don't at the current way it is imposed and forced into users by not having the option to disable it nor skip it at startup so that I can open my PC to the Desktop directly. Why not make Metro optional? That would favor both you and me. The inside core of Windows 8 is better than Windows 7's, yes but the Metro interface is a thumbs down to many of us, you do understand that, right? We have a different interpretation of change than you, right? Those of us on the other boat have explained that many many times right? No offense but you would talk as if to lessen "faultiness" that M$ is driving this right now even if there are significant things they shouldn't do for the better good of all. One example is removing the Start button, another is removing native DVD playback. Then maybe you just have to admit that we see this "change" differently than you.

I am a loyal user of WMP and WMC and I don't install other media players on my machine. I used Shark007 Codecs to make WMP play other file formats. And now, they stripped away native DVD playback from WMP that's always been there for a decade, built in, without the need to pay extra and WMC that was there on Windows 7 except on Basic or Starter Editions and now they are asking extra $ for those when its always been built in on previous operating systems. I know there are FREE alternatives to provide DVD playback and considering them, why would M$ try to sell the DVD playback package for extra price? That was quite stupid. DVD playback should be at least built in on most editions of Windows 8, or why not just all of them? I see less reasons to upgrade to Windows 8 than when it was on the Developer Preview stage.

And even many if the things on Windows 8 CP we dislike right now are just a way for M$ to test the consumers and their reactions, its not turning out well for the tastes of many, in fact, its looking like Windows 8 is half as interesting to users than Windows 7 was on its beta stage. Yes, its better to wait for the final version to see how well it goes to be fair but its a fact that many people would already make up their reactions and some would even make conclusions right now even if we are still on the beta stage of Windows 8. Windows 7 will be there to stay for a decade like XP or more. What a company does to their product affects user satisfaction of course and satisfaction affects trust and loyalty to the company which they really need now.

 

[BillWindows]

"I am a loyal user of WMP and WMC and I don't install other media players on my machine. I used Shark007 Codecs to make WMP play other file formats. And now, they stripped away native DVD playback from WMP that's always been there for a decade, built in, without the need to pay extra and WMC that was there on Windows 7 except on Basic or Starter Editions and now they are asking extra $ for those when its always been built in on previous operating systems. I know there are FREE alternatives to provide DVD playback and considering them, why would M$ try to sell the DVD playback package for extra price? That was quite stupid. DVD playback should be at least built in on most editions of Windows 8, or why not just all of them? I see less reasons to upgrade to Windows 8 than when it was on the Developer Preview stage."

I too am a loyal user of WMP and WMC, as a matter of fact I have two HTPC's setup with them and I have Shark codecs as well. If anybody on this forum should be complaint about removing these Apps it should be me, but I have read that there are only 6% of users using them, so I'm okay with that. Virtually nobody plays DVD's and MS has to build these things into tablets and notebooks that will never use them. It costs them heaps of money to keep them and they have to pass these costs on to people that just will not use the features, so again, I'm okay with that.
I think what individuals have to do is look at these things from MS's perspective not our own.

 

[GMan]

I think what individuals have to do is look at these things from MS's perspective not our own.

This argument only holds water under one condition: That the versions of Windows without the WMC and DVD playback are cheaper than their predecessors - i.e. Windows 7.

Now, if the price is the same and then the add-on pack to have those features is even extra, then it is a slimy move by Microsoft.

If not, then it is a consumer-friendly move by Microsoft.

Only time can tell us which it is.

 

[BillWindows]

@gman, let's hope they make the right decision, at this moment I just want to see what it looks like next month.

 

[SIW2]

Maybe they are stripping down the costs so they can practically give it away - $30 for Windows 8 might get the sales going.

From the looks of it, there isn't going to be a huge rush to pay $130 to $200 for what is clearly at this stage an unpopular product.

 

[Vince53]

You're friend wasn't the only one to like DOS only, even though I ran Windows 3.11. I spent a lot more time in DOS. Everything was much quicker, games were just not runnable in Windows and Word Perfect was much better in DOS.

I remember when you could buy a DOS version of Quicken. My wife bought me a set of seven CDs with DOS games, some of which were pretty good.

 

[Dave76]

...I have read that there are only 6% of users using them, so I'm okay with that. Virtually nobody plays DVD's and MS has to build these things into tablets and notebooks that will never use them. It costs them heaps of money to keep them and they have to pass these costs on to people that just will not use the features, so again, I'm okay with that.
I think what individuals have to do is look at these things from MS's perspective not our own.

Agree with you on this, the majority users requirements change with time.

This reminds me of the discussions about not having a floppy drive included in new computers. A small percentage were adamant that they couldn't function without it.
It comes down to everyone paying for something only a few are using, in the case of WMP and WMC 6%, this is not a realistic option. It will still be available to those that want to use it but, those that don't won't have to pay for it.
There are free media players for those that want to use them.

The fact is that component and software usage changes as time goes by, those that still want to use them still can.
It's not only MS's perspective, it's the general user's perspective.

 

[ZenZenPup]

I think what individuals have to do is look at these things from MS's perspective not our own.

This argument only holds water under one condition: That the versions of Windows without the WMC and DVD playback are cheaper than their predecessors - i.e. Windows 7.

Now, if the price is the same and then the add-on pack to have those features is even extra, then it is a slimy move by Microsoft.

If not, then it is a consumer-friendly move by Microsoft.

Only time can tell us which it is.

"Slimy" is just as easily applied to paying $329.00 for a three-year warranty extension on a computer which cost nearly $4000, just for the price of having an external 2nd monitor.... 2005.... Apple 17" Powerbook... 2008... warranty expires... 2010, logic board dies.... $800+ for fix.... wait... $4800 versus what again? $49.99 for DVD and other codec playback...

I'll have to ponder over that a bit...

 

[GMan]

You're comparing apples to oranges (Apple to MS). I'm comparing one specific situation for the same product, only different versions.

 

[Vince53]

As Dave correctly points out, DVD playback programs are free online, and your DVD player already has a program installed.

The guy who built my computer told me that in his opinion, "Steam" is the way to go, and eventually, he will stop including DVD players on his computers.

 

[GMan]

The guy who built my computer told me that in his opinion, "Steam" is the way to go, and eventually, he will stop including DVD players on his computers.

Must have been THC steam in the air lol. Steam is a game updater, community type of thing: https://steamcommunity.com/

It doesn't playback video or anything. He likely meant for gamers to get their games there instead of buying DVDs or something.

 

[ZenZenPup]

You're comparing apples to oranges (Apple to MS). I'm comparing one specific situation for the same product, only different versions.

GMan.. I'm comparing $$$ v. $$$
A lot of 20/500 vision as to whether having DVD playback included as a "standard" feature in Windows is a sign of "good faith" (Slimy!).

The Late Steve-O had Intel builds of OS X in his back pocket for close to 6 years before letting that cat of the bag... El Gato! Wait!

Apple was selling PPC equipment it had already planned for obsolescence, charging $$$ (in ZAGAT dollars) for 3-year extended warrantys and then reverse-engineered PDF to NOT pay ADOBE for using it in their Quartz engine, which they never really implemented the way Steve-O promised in 2000... AND charged $29.99 for each iterative upgrade of QT that could save or edit files, including ALL of those apps sold to edit videos and sound on Mac OS X and OS 8/9 for HOW many years... and the complaint is that Microsoft is GREEDY....

Let me go add up how many lunches you can buy with $100B USD.... brb...

Ah... the results are in... just a few more than how many you can buy with what ADOBE charged for the PRIVILEGE of using Photoshop CS Extended at $999 a pop... Now, $29.99-$49.99/month at a WALMART nearest you...

JUST FOR GOOD MEASURE...


Let's throw in the guys who lament that their 2010 version of Windows 7 Home Edition does not qualify them for the Windows 8 $15 upgrade program... pass the love arounud!


Kudos to David G. @ZDNET for getting PAID to tell people that you can speed up their browsing by creating an empty profile..... WHOA!!!! I just had a Keanu Reeves moment...

 

[GMan]

Why over-complicate the scenario? Something was available for a price. Now the new version has the something omitted. Is the price going to still be the same with that omission or will the savings be passed on to the consumer? That's really the only question here.

It's a question of good faith or not, at Microsoft.

 

[ZenZenPup]

I'm sorry, but exactly what savings is there to squeeze out of this....? I was blinded by the "Microsoft Tax" rhetoric for A LONG time... but APPLE charged significantly more (hence $100B in cash reserves out of 4+% market share v. Microsoft making how much per PC with Windows bundled...?) than anything Microsoft put out.


Let's see... Macs+whatever hardware.... 90 days warranty... average 3-year warranty on ANY computer/iPad/iPod model... $99 x 300M units over the last 11 or so years... at... 4.5% interest.... that is somewhere in the ball park of $25~30B USD including accrued interest. They use $3~4B for parts and replacements, another 8~10 for labor, shipping and production... and still somethere in the neighborhood of $16B in profit just for holding their customers' hands... nothing else... and it's tax free because it's all been sitting in offshore accounts... hmmmm

Sure, Microsoft does it in Brazil and elsewhere. But this "Evil Microsoft" mantra is a bit skewed.... Does Microsoft do the same with Windows licenses? Yes. Does Google say "ka-ching!" everytime an Android phone leaves the Verizon store... with the 2GB microSD card worth $3 as a "feature"... count on it...

Shoot RAW images and want to edit them on your computer... pay the CANON/NIKON/ADOBE/COREL tax...

Want to use DisplayPort on your 3-year old HP desktop... pay the AMD/NVIDIA tax and get a 2GB GPU...

Want to have a roomful of DVD titles that just collect dust 10 years down the road and fill up landfills... pay for PowerDVD and watch to your heart's content...

 

[BillWindows]

Why over-complicate the scenario? Something was available for a price. Now the new version has the something omitted. Is the price going to still be the same with that omission or will the savings be passed on to the consumer? That's really the only question here.

It's a question of good faith or not, at Microsoft.

I think you're under-complicating things, there are a lot of things involved here, the main one being, how many people use these programmes. Surely MS should be coding for the good of the many not the few, like I said I've got two HTPC's so I should be upset, but I understand not everyone is like me. I personally would rather see a lean mean platform that I can manipulate to suit myself than have a lot of rubbish very few people use.

 

[GMan]

What is so hard to understand about a product with features one day being compared to a product without the same features the next?

All these companies in relation to the concept being brought up is completely foreign to the subject at hand. This is a Windows site and we're talking about Windows.

By the other arguments I see here, they seem to be saying: "Since other companies screw the consumer, Microsoft should be allowed to do it too without any negative feedback."

Or

"Since I don't use that feature, it's alright for you and others that do to be screwed."

Kinda selfish, don't ya think?

 

[BillWindows]

"
"Since I don't use that feature, it's alright for you and others that do to be screwed."

Kinda selfish, don't ya think?"

I thought I was saying I use that feature but can understand MS removing it. Zenpup is correct in what he is saying because most people will tear down MS but not other companies for doing the same thing.
Surely we are being selfish if we want features no one else is using. Do some reading on the reasons why they are removing these features I'm sure you will understand why they are doing it, it's for the good of the majority.