What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC

Many PC OEMs are dissatisfied with what Microsoft has done with Windows 8 and the way the company has handled the negative response to the operating system. Privately, one OEM source told me that Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry, while another claimed that Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."

What a Windows 8 U-turn will mean for the PC | ZDNet

 

[jimbo45]

Hi Ray8

The button on the Start screen is in build 9369 (latest leak) -- It doesn't exist on the current W8 system so if people are looking for this they will be disappointed --however IMO the addition of that tiny feature changes the start screen from being a huge POS to something actually decently useful -- and I quite like being able to just type anywhere on the screen and the search is initiated without me having to enter anything into a search box like the search function on the W7 menu.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[SIW2]

Yes.

It would help to get the existing user base to accept this thing.

Right now it is repelling a substantial proportion of them - for very good reason.

A button to take users to the start screen is worse than useless. It is insulting.

The start screen is precisely what many do not want to see.

The difficulty for MS is , the start screen is the portal to push the users into their online services.

That is why the start menu was removed - to force users onto the screen.

But in all honesty, would a start menu even matter at this point?

 

[The Doctor]

I hope Windows 8.1 re-instates (at least as an option) an RGB font rendering API for IE10, Office 2013 and the Modern interface.
If not, MS will have wasted their resources.

 

[vrosa]

Yes, it does. I don't care about the start menu. I've adapted completely to the new Windows 8 interface, and I love it. But most people aren't tech oriented. And change isn't something they want to see.

Yes. Resistance to the change is part of humanity, but that's inevitable. I confess that my first impressions about Windows 8 weren't that good, but now I'm used to it and I know exactly what to customize to get it working the way I want and need. Of course I'm looking forward to seeing a better Windows, but I'm quite happy with it as it is now. The question is that the average user doesn't want to spend efforts to customize and learn a new operating system (or doesn't even know how to do it).

 

[Coke Robot]

That's generally what I've seen happen for the past year, people initially didn't like it. But then time went on with them using it, "Hey, Windows 8 isn't that bad!"

 

[jimbo45]

Yes, it does. I don't care about the start menu. I've adapted completely to the new Windows 8 interface, and I love it. But most people aren't tech oriented. And change isn't something they want to see.

Yes. Resistance to the change is part of humanity, but that's inevitable. I confess that my first impressions about Windows 8 weren't that good, but now I'm used to it and I know exactly what to customize to get it working the way I want and need. Of course I'm looking forward to seeing a better Windows, but I'm quite happy with it as it is now. The question is that the average user doesn't want to spend efforts to customize and learn a new operating system (or doesn't even know how to do it).

Hi there

...........You WILL Comply ... You Will be Absorbed ... Resistance is Futile.......

SevenofNine in Star trek -- Easily the best looking actress of the lot.

https://www.google.is/search?q=seve...xUYm1EYjMOevLgCg&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=897&bih=421

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

Exactly the same

-- and I quite like being able to just type anywhere on the screen and the search is initiated without me having to enter anything into a search box like the search function on the W7 menu.

Search works exactly the same way in W7.

Maybe your W7 is broken.
I do not have to click in the Search box.
I just open the Start Menu and start typing (when I want/need to search).

SevenofNine in Star trek -- Easily the best looking actress of the lot.

https://www.google.is/search?q=seve...xUYm1EYjMOevLgCg&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=897&bih=421

I actually preferred the first "slug" girl in ST - DS9 (Lt. Cmdr. Jadzia Dax - Terry Farrell).

 

[jimbo45]

-- and I quite like being able to just type anywhere on the screen and the search is initiated without me having to enter anything into a search box like the search function on the W7 menu.

Search works exactly the same way in W7.

Maybe your W7 is broken.
I do not have to click in the Search box.
I just open the Start Menu and start typing (when I want/need to search).

SevenofNine in Star trek -- Easily the best looking actress of the lot.

https://www.google.is/search?q=seve...xUYm1EYjMOevLgCg&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=897&bih=421

I actually preferred the first "slug" girl in ST - DS9 (Lt. Cmdr. Jadzia Dax - Terry Farrell).

Hi there

She was fine too -- but the relative merits of these fine women perhaps should be discussed on another Forum. !!.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[startas]

The difficulty for MS is , the start screen is the portal to push the users into their online services.

That is why the start menu was removed - to force users onto the screen.

There is another big reason - windows 8 was made for tablets, and as you can see, start menu is pretty small, so on tablets it would be too small and unusable, thats why they needed to redesign the whole start menu and to make it big and "touch friendly".

Yeah, and i dont like that massive "internetization" of offline games (like diablo 3), and operating systems, cause people cant make it good yet from the first time, it brings too much problems and you depend on too many things, it just doesnt feel right.

 

[Coke Robot]

The difficulty for MS is , the start screen is the portal to push the users into their online services.

That is why the start menu was removed - to force users onto the screen.

There is another big reason - windows 8 was made for tablets, and as you can see, start menu is pretty small, so on tablets it would be too small and unusable, thats why they needed to redesign the whole start menu and to make it big and "touch friendly".

Yeah, and i dont like that massive "internetization" of offline games (like diablo 3), and operating systems, cause people cant make it good yet from the first time, it brings too much problems and you depend on too many things, it just doesnt feel right.

And there's also the fact that fewer and fewer people were using the start menu versus using the Windows 7 Taskbar and jumplists.

 

[Ray8]

And there's also the fact that fewer and fewer people were using the start menu versus using the Windows 7 Taskbar and jumplists.

So thinks Microsoft, but not the makers of Classic Shell, Start8 etc and the millions of people downloading and using the start button replacement.

 

[XweAponX]

A few years ago as a joke I wrote a small program that permanently hide the task bar. I sent it out to everyone I know and told them to run it. Most were totally lost without the task bar. Only a couple thought it was really cool.

The point is we've been seeing touch screen coming for years. And yet OEM manufacturers kept on making devices without touch screens. And people kept on buying these devices without touchscreens.

hah, I would have loved THAT. My systems f-up so much, explorer crashes and I have to open using three-fingered salute all the time. I hate rebooting so I just leave it in that state until I have to, heh.

 

[goodintentions]

I'm just old enough to remember working with dos. And then windows came out and we got to type windows to start windows. When windows started booting directly into windows, I remember some oldies bitching about it. My brother was one of those that initially thought the new interface was crap and that he just wanted to go back to dos.

Every time a new interface is introduced the first 6 months or so people will cry armageddon and the end of life as we know it. After that initial period people will begin to think it's not that bad and once they learned how to use it efficiently people will even come to favor the new interface over the old.

I absolutely don't see any problem with windows 8. My tablet/laptop hybrid that I take with me everywhere I can do everything with it super fast. And my old i7 desktop with a 24" monitor (before it got taken from me during a burglary) I used it with windows 8 without any problem whatsoever. Whenever I wanted to open up a program, all I did was type really fast the first 4 or so letters of that program and press enter. That's faster than any start menu can make it.

And when I want to do a search, it's a lot faster for me to swipe from the right side and press the magnifying glass to start searching than any start menu.

The fact of the matter is 3 months from now the new windows 8 interface will not even be on anyone's radar. Why not argue that we need to go back to dos and that if you want windows you could always launch it from dos? I don't see anyone making that argument these days.

Remember those good old days when dos command prompt was there for you to run everything you needed to? Remember how everyone cried bloody murder when the OS launched directly into windows and if you wanted to run a dos program you have to open up a command prompt (OMG extra steps!)? Why the hell aren't you oldies making such arguments nowadays?

Technology is about change. Change to be more efficient. Change for the better. Nowadays I can launch apps faster than ever before. All I did was spent a whole 2 minutes getting to know windows 8.

Added by edit.

Now that I think more about it, I remember as a young lad trying to become tech savy I hated the mouse. Most things were dos based back then. I hated going into windows 3.1 and I hated it when the new computer my parents bought me launched directly into windows. I also heard a lot of people complaining about it as well.

I am absolutely convinced that metro is THE RIGHT PATH for Microsoft. With new interfaces like leap motion, Kinect, optical control, and other interfaces being developed or have already developed, the new interface will become much much more than just a work station. Imagine controlling your home utilities from a single system. Imagine linking your cars to your home system.

The military is already using touch interfaces in a lot of places. I have a friend who sells those tough devices with touch interfaces from Panasonic to military and law enforcement agencies, and they are more profitable than ever. Controlling drones, ships, robots, etc. won't rely on the user typing in command lines anymore. Touch will reduce input time by quite a bit.

Touch interface applications are endless.

So, again, why aren't you guys arguing for them to bring back launching directly into dos and if you want to you can launch windows from there?

 

[goodintentions]

hah, I would have loved THAT. My systems f-up so much, explorer crashes and I have to open using three-fingered salute all the time. I hate rebooting so I just leave it in that state until I have to, heh.

Yeah... that was cool until I got a warning from the system management saying I was spreading a malware. Well, they were right, but I was in my naïve self and had to explain to them that I wrote the darn thing and beyond hiding the taskbar it was harmless. They threatened to take disciplinary action if I did it again. LOL

 

[goodintentions]

And there's also the fact that fewer and fewer people were using the start menu versus using the Windows 7 Taskbar and jumplists.

So thinks Microsoft, but not the makers of Classic Shell, Start8 etc and the millions of people downloading and using the start button replacement.

The millions that downloaded classic shell are like those that insisted on keep using dos instead of the new windows interface.

Yes, I was one of them the first time I started using windows 8. But as time went on I realized I had no need for that start menu.

 

[Ray8]

And there's also the fact that fewer and fewer people were using the start menu versus using the Windows 7 Taskbar and jumplists.

So thinks Microsoft, but not the makers of Classic Shell, Start8 etc and the millions of people downloading and using the start button replacement.

The millions that downloaded classic shell are like those that insisted on keep using dos instead of the new windows interface.

Yes, I was one of them the first time I started using windows 8. But as time went on I realized I had no need for that start menu.

Windows introduced an entire new and easier way of interacting with a computer, when it moved from DOS, and that brought the mainstream public into computers. The developments from there on have ostensibly been iterative, rather than dramatic. The MPI takes away functionality that has been with us now for a very long time and not provided any benefits in return. The analogy with DOS is completely askew.

Those millions have tried the MPI and dislike it and thus choose third party programs to give them back the functionality that they want. It's quite bizarre that those who do not like the MPI are always labelled Luddites or the like.

 

[chrisa]

And there's also the fact that fewer and fewer people were using the start menu versus using the Windows 7 Taskbar and jumplists.

So thinks Microsoft, but not the makers of Classic Shell, Start8 etc and the millions of people downloading and using the start button replacement.

The millions that downloaded classic shell are like those that insisted on keep using dos instead of the new windows interface.

Yes, I was one of them the first time I started using windows 8. But as time went on I realized I had no need for that start menu.

That dog don't hunt.

When they first introduced Windows, and subsequently moved the command prompt to command.com, they didn't purposefully break functionality that was found in the command prompt and say 'WTH would you want that, use File Manager!'. They didn't suddenly remove the 'dir' function, all the commands you had previously were there. The difference now is that they're purposefully attempting to break functionality in the desktop and say 'WTH would you want that, use the Start Screen!'.

I still used the command prompt for years after it was relevant, and eventually fully migrated, even though all the commands and functionality that was there before, is still there to this day. But I wasn't forced to do so. This is them forcing us to do so, and its not because its that much better, its not because it gives us loads of new functionality(in fact, the new interface is regression technology as it pertains to the desktop, but progression for media consumption), its because they want to push us into The Mobile Interface and a system whereby they get a 30% cut of sales. That's why they want to do it, and why they are pushing so hard by crippling previous desktop functionality, no other reason.

Its all to jack their bottom line and you're kidding yourself if you think its any different. And a lot of times, people do need to be pushed to adopt new features, but they can and do have the final say as to whether they go or not and right now people are resoundingly saying no. Lets not pretend we don't have sales figures to prove it.

 

[Ray8]

We met Microsoft's Windows Product Manager Ian Moulster away from the show floor at the recent UK Gadget Show to get an update on how things are going with the OS. The change in tone from previous Windows 8 briefings we've experienced was marked. Gone were the big messages about the Windows 8 Start screen and Windows 8-style apps. The atmosphere was more introspective - has the Start screen been over-emphasised?

"I've changed my pitch - I hate saying it's my pitch - from starting with the Start screen to starting with the Windows desktop when I talk to people about Windows 8," considered Moulster. "When you show them the desktop it looks like Windows 7 and in fact it is pretty much like Windows 7 except that it's faster, it's more secure, uses less power, starts up quicker and has interface tweaks across the board.

Moulster talked about how this "desktop first" approach may speak more to those migrating from Windows 7, with Microsoft possibly shifting the focus away from the new world of the Start screen at first. "To me that resonates more with certain people who are coming from a Windows 7 background so I'm just wondering whether emphasising the Start screen to everyone might not be the right way to do it for us and others too.

Microsoft: emphasis on Start Screen shackled Windows 8 | News | TechRadar

Maybe the message is sinking in.

 

[mdmd]

.... The MPI takes away functionality that has been with us now for a very long time and not provided any benefits in return.... Those millions have tried the MPI and dislike it and thus choose third party programs to give them back the functionality that they want. It's quite bizarre that those who do not like the MPI are always labelled Luddites or the like.

I do lots of detail work, spreadsheets, word processing, graphics and pdf field work. My experience is zero reduction in functionality. The benefits are based on preference.
A free start menu (or 5 bucks) should be of no consequence unless one has to buy 10,000 start menus ...
Otherwise, the MPI is not unusable... Do you really believe that? Or just annoying... I wouldn't label users of the traditional start menu in that way except as a joke. Just as users of the start screen are reduced to the status of children.

 

[SIW2]

I'm just wondering whether emphasising the Start screen to everyone might not be the right way to do it

Not exactly quick on the uptake.

I ( and I expect many others ) posted up along while back that merely showing the desktop on the shelves might be better than the MPI.

At least then people might take a look.

If they are able to use it on a regular pc in a sensible way ( i.e. start menu - or newly metro looking version, like the new task manager - it could still be laden with exhortations to MS money grabbing schemes ) - then they might buy the thing.