Windows 8 bashing!

[labeeman]

So what you are saying here is that Microsoft is too arrogant to listen to its customers. A company that does not listen to its customers will soon not be in business so there future plans are mute.

no, what I am saying is that you can't please everybody. you can only please as many people as you can.

there's a demand for more LP/records. and some companies are trying to address that need and it's noble. but most people have moved on to digital media.

Classic Shell according to there site has been DL over 3 million times take that figure and multiply by .5 then multiply by 30 (the number of shell like programs) and I get a figure of 45 million that is a lot of customers also some OEMs have been including a shell like program I know mine did with there computers.

 

[Ray8]

there's a demand for more LP/records. and some companies are trying to address that need and it's noble. but most people have moved on to digital media.

That analogy is completely off the mark. It's akin to people restoring classic cars and enjoying them for what they are, yet they still drive modern cars as well. Windows 8 is not that sort of technology leap by any stretch of the imagination. All it does is bring to the forefront what it's been doing for some time (touch capability), but improving on it, yet it still relies on the desktop for the vast majority of its applications.

If I open any Office program on my tablet, I can use touch to do everything that I do with a mouse and keyboard, as awkward as that may be, so nothing new here. So it still comes back to the 'Windows 8 start menu' vs the 'desktop menu' as to what makes one better for one individual vs another individual.

You can't please everyone, but why Microsoft decided to send a bottle of urine with a travel voucher for all those that are content with what they know and like is anyone's guess.

 

[dirtyvu]

classic shell is perfect illustration of what I said about tailoring it to your own experience. if there's a demand for something, there'll be people there to fill the void. I don't go around telling people to uninstall classic shell.

if you're content what what you're using, keep using it!

 

[Mystere]

Then when I finished with the reader and dragged it to the bottom to close it, instead of going back to the desktop where my router connection was, it left me in the damn start screen.

Apparently, you've never heard of alt-tab. It instantly takes you from one window to another, like magic. You can even switch between them instantly, so you can "reference" things. You should really learn how to use a computer if you think you have to close windows to move between them.

 

[Ray8]

classic shell is perfect illustration of what I said about tailoring it to your own experience. if there's a demand for something, there'll be people there to fill the void. I don't go around telling people to uninstall classic shell.

if you're content what what you're using, keep using it!

You still haven't answered the earlier post (that was embarrassing, wasn't it?). But you still miss the point. It's not like Microsoft didn't provide something that many expected to be fairly basic in concept and useful (other than my point about the apps), they removed something basic in concept and useful entirely.

 

[Ray8]

Apparently, you've never heard of alt-tab. It instantly takes you from one window to another, like magic. You can even switch between them instantly, so you can "reference" things. You should really learn how to use a computer if you think you have to close windows to move between them.

You don't need Alt+Tab in the good old taskbar of Windows 7, everything you have open is there and a simple mouse hover/click reveals or opens the program. It's often a hell of a lot easier to sit back and use the mouse, rather than the keyboard.

 

[dirtyvu]

classic shell is perfect illustration of what I said about tailoring it to your own experience. if there's a demand for something, there'll be people there to fill the void. I don't go around telling people to uninstall classic shell.

if you're content what what you're using, keep using it!

You still haven't answered the earlier post (that was embarrassing, wasn't it?). But you still miss the point. It's not like Microsoft didn't provide something that many expected to be fairly basic in concept and useful (other than my point about the apps), they removed something basic in concept and useful entirely.

huh? I didn't get it wrong. I quoted you with reference to this:

There's no doubt that tablets and smartphones sales far exceed that of desktop PCs and laptops, however:

PCs Tell Tablets: We're Not Dead Yet - Global-cio - Executive

“Tablets will not kill PCsâ€, say analysts - System Builders - News - HEXUS.net


which I answered with this:

but does it matter in the big picture? Toyotas outsell Ferraris. But does that matter? Toyotas are cheaper and plenty usable. But when I want to do some things, only the Ferrari can do it.

the market is evolving. but there'll always be the need for real PCs. There was a time when people thought netbooks would kill the traditional PC. But netbooks have faded away and been replaced by tablets.


but in terms of bashing windows 8 and wishing it to fail, I made no reference to you. To make it more clear, I should've had multiple quotes so that you knew what was being addressed to you and what was being addressed to phillipduran. but for brevity sake, I put my response to phillipduran in my quote to you. I didn't even realize I was quoting you because I didn't look at who was writing the post because it's not the person that's important, it's what they're trying to say. and I apologize for the misunderstanding. I thought that if my post was read, it'd be clear who I was addressing at each point.

but the point still stands that it's completely unnecessary for someone to try to repeat their hate for the start screen in every "i hate the start screen" thread.

 

[Ray8]

When you spray, you spray everyone. If you don't even bother to look at and consider who you're directing your comments towards, it means that you're lazy, inconsiderate, disrespectful and frankly, quite immature. Even Bill makes the effort to direct his comments appropriately to each individual.

 

[dirtyvu]

fine, if you want to make this personal, do so.

I meant no ill will toward you and I actually think you knew that but you just wanted to make a point and make it personal. whatever floats your boat.

 

[Ray8]

I meant no ill will toward you and I actually think you knew that but you just wanted to make a point and make it personal. whatever floats your boat.

No I didn't know. The internet doesn't afford the same luxuries as having face to face discussions with someone and when you make pointed barbs, no one is to know towards who those barbs are directed. And you don't just brush it off with 'whatever floats your boat.' Tell me, how old are you?

 

[jimbo45]

There's no doubt that tablets and smartphones sales far exceed that of desktop PCs and laptops, however:

PCs Tell Tablets: We're Not Dead Yet - Global-cio - Executive

“Tablets will not kill PCsâ€, say analysts - System Builders - News - HEXUS.net

But you don't need to try to teach people that Windows 8 is bad because you want to hold on to what you have. And if it's your choice not to upgrade, there's no reason to try to tell people not to upgrade either. It's like when music CD's were dying and people were lambasting the poor quality of digital music, that uncompressed audio CDs had much better quality, etc. etc. that people shouldn't be moving to digital music. or when records went on to CD's, how CDs didn't have the nuance of records and poorer sound quality.

things move on. it's not your job to try to stop things. but yet there are those audiophiles that feel the need to go into every digital media forum and say how music has suffered because of the digital era all the time. as if they're complaining will somehow keep things from changing.

Hi there

Nothing wrong with digital music - but whichever way you play it a hideously compressed mp3 track won't sound as good as a decently recorded uncompressed FLAC or WAV track -- unless of course you are listening on those hideous bud earphones --especially the WHITE brands where the poor audience around you hears more "Music" than the wearer does.

What finally has happened is that the audiophiles have got some of their points across --and a lot of places (especially for Classical Music) now offer uncompressed downloads and I think even ITunes offers 320 mps mp3 downloads - still compressed but usually decently playable even on good gear. With 32 GB available in Micro SD cards - even smart phones don't need to store poorly compressed mp3 music @ 64 / 128 kbs anymore --there's enough storage for a shedload of music at a decent bit rate.

Don't always rubbish older stuff too quickly -- some of it will integrate very nicely with newer technology -- remember though while Cars and motorized ships have rendered horses and sail boats obsolete for travelling - a lot of people still enjoy Horse riding and Sailing boats.

The point here is not always to knock those people who have reservations with Windows 8 and simply answer "Move On - or stay with another OS like W7". There is no reason at all why Windows 8 can't incorporate the best of the OLD while moving forward to encompass new devices like phones and tablets.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[dirtyvu]

I meant no ill will toward you and I actually think you knew that but you just wanted to make a point and make it personal. whatever floats your boat.

Tell me, how old are you?

a lot older than you apparently.

 

[SIW2]

There's a lot of discussion about the little details of the UI.

Hands up anyone who actually understands the big picture.

 

[pogle63]

I upgraded to Windows 8 to see what the fuss is all about. I must admit it does have some good features but also I think Microsoft have dropped the ball too.
Why? Well Windows 8 and its Metro interface are fine touch screen applications and work well on a tablet or a phone. However having spent an arm and a leg on decent graphics for my PC do it really want to attach a monitor to it and cover the screen with grubby finger prints - no I do not I hate grubby monitor screens.
Microsoft need to address this problem by maybe designing a tablet style keyboard that will allow all the swiping and pinching from on your desk rather than on the screen.
Secondly my main PC I use for all kinds of things that are usually heavy on resources and programs, which is why I have bought the programs I need to do what I want to do. These APPS that are available on the Metro store are fine on a tablet or a phone to add functionality but I haven't found any yet that really replace what I already know and trust.
Third I have recently downloaded a program called Classic Shell and used it to reconfigure windows 8 back to windows 7 it works really well I still have the options to use Metro and the other windows 8 features but in my old familiar windows 7 layout. This should be offered by Microsoft not be developed by someone else. It allows me to work as usual but switch over to the new system and use its features and gradually suss out whats what with it.
After installation of Windows 8 I was disappointed because my PC resembled more a tablet or a phone than my pc so I finally downloaded the Classic Shell and rebuilt my old environment. Microsoft need to think more about this touch screen concept for the desk top PC a lot of people don`t want to be poking their monitors and swiping on the screen a touchpad type keyboard that incorporates the new system would make it far more attractive and useable.
Otherwise the Windows 8 is fine, sadly though it is not the answer to all things and Microsoft need to look at making it fit better into different situations and make it customisable to allow people to be comfortable with it.
My PC now once again looks like a PC starts like windows 7 used to and has all the advantages of windows 8 just in the corner or on a shortcut far far better.
I am far happier with Windows 8 now I have retaken control of my computer, I am able to revert to the full 8 experience when I want to and have all the benefits.
I just wish Microsoft would support something like Classic Shell which for me is making the transformation from keyboard to touch screen a lot easier to accept as unlike the advertisement - everything at once was a little bit over whelming for some people hence the negativity the system seems to be attracting.
I like my set up now because its Windows 7 I know with added teeth and an alter ego hidden inside it.

 

[brummyfan]

There's a lot of discussion about the little details of the UI.

Hands up anyone who actually understands the big picture.

 

[pparks1]

Apparently, you've never heard of alt-tab. It instantly takes you from one window to another, like magic. You can even switch between them instantly, so you can "reference" things. You should really learn how to use a computer if you think you have to close windows to move between them.

This really is getting tiring, but I'll respond anyway.

Obviously, I know about ALT-TAB. When configuring things like routers, some of the commands are very syntactical and it's not a matter or needing to see something for a brief second or two and then having it committed to memory. Having 2 windows open side by side so that I can read from one directly as I type into the second window is invaluable. Or better yet, i can cut and paste from the first window into the second window...without having to flip back and forth between the windows with ALT-TAB.

Instead of spending 5 seconds reading a persons posts and then trying to envision what we are doing, you simply respond by belittling us and assuming we don't know how to use a computer. You need to imagine that some of us might actually use the computer in a slightly different manner than you do. And also give us "frequent" posters a bit of the benefit of the doubt that we probably have some idea on how to use the computer. By making simple off the cuff posts that "you obviously are clueless", doesn't exactly build rapport.

The simple point that I was making was this
1). While working with my actual apps on my classic desktop, I needed to see a bit of a PDF
2). the default PDF viewer in 8, was a full screen metro version and thus it took me out of the desktop and dedicated 100% of my screen to viewing the PDF (not what I would want).
3). When I was done with the PDF viewer and I decided consciously to close it, rather than putting me back into the desktop where I do all of my work, it left me on the Start Screen....which I NEVER clicked on or asked for.

I never once said I was confused, stuck or unsure how to continue...I said I find the above experience ANNOYING.

 

[Max Peck]

Max, your usage counts as much as the Beekeeper's usage, sure people have different uses for computers, but there are only so many beekeepers and so many developers.

Actually, when I say desktop, I mean the big box, the one I'm using now. Windows 8 will allow for all kinds of convertibles and phablets with touch, as well as laptops with touch, this I believe will spur the PC industry to new heights, but only if Windows 8 succeeds.

I actually see a very bright future for the PC industry, the problem is do they see it and are they going to climb on board, because its not going to be an easy trip.

Oh ... OK. When you said desktop, I thought you meant the desktop subsystem in the O/S, not a physical box. On that score I completely agree, the "big box" systems will definitely fade away, or at least you won't see them nearly as much. The machine I use most is a "dektop replacement" notebook (Inspiron 17R). I do have an XPS 8300 (desktop system) at the house but I use that guy for processing video tapes, ripping MP3's from vinyl and Flight Simulation. (I'm unable to fly right now so I keep some of my piloting skills fresh with a simulator).

The big-box desktop system will still be around for a long time, but in diminished numbers. When you want REALLY high performance and the ability to reconfigure the machine they still have an edge over the laptop machines.

-Max

 

[pparks1]

Hi there

Nothing wrong with digital music - but whichever way you play it a hideously compressed mp3 track won't sound as good as a decently recorded uncompressed FLAC or WAV track -- unless of course you are listening on those hideous bud earphones --especially the WHITE brands where the poor audience around you hears more "Music" than the wearer does.


What finally has happened is that the audiophiles have got some of their points across --and a lot of places (especially for Classical Music) now offer uncompressed downloads and I think even ITunes offers 320 mps mp3 downloads - still compressed but usually decently playable even on good gear. With 32 GB available in Micro SD cards - even smart phones don't need to store poorly compressed mp3 music @ 64 / 128 kbs anymore --there's enough storage for a shedload of music at a decent bit rate.

Hey Jimbo,

I fully understand what you are saying with respect to the difference in sound quality between poor MP3's and high quality FLAC files. I used to be the type that wanted to stick with CD's as long as humanly possible because I didn't want to accept lower quality compressed formats.

I'm not the type to use the "cheapo" earbuds that come with anything. My headphones at work are Grado SR-125's. At home, my daughter and I share a pair of Audio Technica ATHM50s. While these aren't super high end, they are better than what a majority of home users use. For running and working out, I use a pair of Sennheiser PMX-680's as these have proven to stay in my ears and sound better when running than anything else I have ever tried.


But like you said, the versions distributed have improved significantly over time. In many cases, with my MP3's purchased from Amazon, or anything that have ripped myself with VBR 2 MP3 (around ~240Kbps), the sound quality from my sources (laptop, smartphone, marantz receiver) sound perfectly acceptable. I would even go so far as to say that I prefer the space savings over the sound quality increase at this point.

 

[jimbo45]

Apparently, you've never heard of alt-tab. It instantly takes you from one window to another, like magic. You can even switch between them instantly, so you can "reference" things. You should really learn how to use a computer if you think you have to close windows to move between them.

This really is getting tiring, but I'll respond anyway.

Obviously, I know about ALT-TAB. When configuring things like routers, some of the commands are very syntactical and it's not a matter or needing to see something for a brief second or two and then having it committed to memory. Having 2 windows open side by side so that I can read from one directly as I type into the second window is invaluable. Or better yet, i can cut and paste from the first window into the second window...without having to flip back and forth between the windows with ALT-TAB.

Instead of spending 5 seconds reading a persons posts and then trying to envision what we are doing, you simply respond by belittling us and assuming we don't know how to use a computer. You need to imagine that some of us might actually use the computer in a slightly different manner than you do. And also give us "frequent" posters a bit of the benefit of the doubt that we probably have some idea on how to use the computer. By making simple off the cuff posts that "you obviously are clueless", doesn't exactly build rapport.

The simple point that I was making was this
1). While working with my actual apps on my classic desktop, I needed to see a bit of a PDF
2). the default PDF viewer in 8, was a full screen metro version and thus it took me out of the desktop and dedicated 100% of my screen to viewing the PDF (not what I would want).
3). When I was done with the PDF viewer and I decided consciously to close it, rather than putting me back into the desktop where I do all of my work, it left me on the Start Screen....which I NEVER clicked on or asked for.

I never once said I was confused, stuck or unsure how to continue...I said I find the above experience ANNOYING.

Hi there

@Mystere

The point here is that why SHOULD YOU HAVE to press ALT-TAB to switch the PDF application to another screen - many of us use computers in Windowed mode -- and while pressingg ALT-TAB might not seem much of an irritant when done once or twice it becomes a real pain in the but when viewing multiple documents -- PLEASE AT LEAST try and understand what the Poster is saying and how he / she currently uses a computer -- and then suggest a DECENT and plausible alternative.

I'm always myself willing to learn new approaches but it seems here on any discussion of the Windows 8 UI there are people here who just can't get it through their thick craniums (crania ??) that some people DO NOT WORK IN FULL SCREEN MODE - PERIOD - END OF.

No amount of extra messing around with key strokes to switch between windows will alter this basic fact -- and if you go back through some of these long tedious threads on the W8 GUI this is a particular defect of the Windows GUI that hasn't yet been SATISFACTORILY resolved.

For instance if you use the "Bog standard" RDP software you automatically get switched into full screen metro mode -- not what you want if you are doing other things on your laptop at the same time as wanting to logon to the remote computer - such as a work desktop.

You CAN get round this problem by using the command line version of RDP then it brings up the classic Windowed version with all the decent options (as per Win 7 and earlier) - but again this is an irritant to a lot of people who don't want their computers to behave like overgrown tablets or mobile phones.

Anyway I've said my piece on this --if people still reply willy nilly to others posts without at least addressing the difficulty the OP has then we are all wasting everybody's time.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[pparks1]

I'm always myself willing to learn new approaches but it seems here on any discussion of the Windows 8 UI there are people here who just can't get it through their thick craniums (crania ??) that some people DO NOT WORK IN FULL SCREEN MODE - PERIOD - END OF.

The ONLY thing that I have that runs full screen is my wallpaper. Everything else is windowed. (Outlook, browsers, music player, RDP connections, terminal windows, office apps, music players, virtual machines, etc). It doesn't matter if I am on my laptop with my 1440x900 resolution 14" display, or on my desktop with dual 1920x1200 resolution 24" monitors. I use windows, and quite a number of them.

Thanks Jim for understanding the points that I was making.