I believe Win 8 is going to be another Windows Vista

[DeaconFrost]

The learning curve for Windows 8 is actually quite small. I have several relatives, including one who's never owned a computer before, who are able to pick it up quickly and do all of the tasks they wish.

Again, you keep referencing these limitations, but you have yet to explain what limitations you are talking about. You've already suggested that you can only run one app at a time, which isn't true. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...if you don't like the Tiled UI or the "apps" then don't use them. It's a simple as that. I could go an entire day of using my ultrabook without every once seeing the Tiled UI. If I want to, or use some of the apps (which there are plenty I've found useful or entertaining), they're a button press away. I can install any and all programs I need to use as well, such as my web dev stuff, Office, etc., and use them in a standard desktop environment that we've had for years. That's far from what I'd call "limiting".

 

[labeeman]

Listen. I agree, Windows 8 is not perfect. And there are some missteps, but over all, they are not the end of the world.
Yes, Apps should run like normal Desktop Software and have re-sizable windows to provide true Multi-Tasking abilities.

Had they done that, i believe that Windows 8 would be an Android/Apple Killer. That's true.

But as with Vista, MS are taking a new approach to things. This is not a bad thing.
Live Tiles are great. Among other things.

I think too many people take the absolute Extreme side of things.

Instead of looking at a lot of the positives, they are just writing everything off all because they don't like the GUI,, that's well......

MS doens't want to lose the future to the likes of Apple and Android. So they are trying aomething new,, I think it's a great direction that needs quite a bit of tweaking. I think we will see those get fixed.

No they are alienating at least 30 to 40% of there current installed base with a ui made for TOYS.

I think I know -> that you know -> that they know that -> that "at least 30 to 40% of there current installed base" will stick to 7, some other prior OS, or upgrade to 7 while they introduce this needed "market-demanding transitional" OS. A business plan involves a time line. It takes time for transition. I'm quite sure they have a 9 that they're already working on to appease that 30 to 40%.

Has anyone thought about what you will say us "fanbois" when we get to NineForums? Or better yet -> What we will say to you?

If the din gets any louder I do not think there will be a Windows 9.

 

[gazz9496]

of course their will be a windows 9, how it looks and functions may depend on certain other movements in the hardware industry though, like a bigger uptake in touchscreen for one.

and their are the big glass windows that act as screens and such being demo'd, i think a great deal of that type of tech will be what any future o/s will depend on for some of it's inovations.

 

[labeeman]

The learning curve for Windows 8 is actually quite small. I have several relatives, including one who's never owned a computer before, who are able to pick it up quickly and do all of the tasks they wish.

Again, you keep referencing these limitations, but you have yet to explain what limitations you are talking about. You've already suggested that you can only run one app at a time, which isn't true. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...if you don't like the Tiled UI or the "apps" then don't use them. It's a simple as that. I could go an entire day of using my ultrabook without every once seeing the Tiled UI. If I want to, or use some of the apps (which there are plenty I've found useful or entertaining), they're a button press away. I can install any and all programs I need to use as well, such as my web dev stuff, Office, etc., and use them in a standard desktop environment that we've had for years. That's far from what I'd call "limiting".

The desktop is an X86 operating system and is able to multitask. The metro operating system or windows rt is in a VM on your machine and is unable to multitask more than half screen try running 3 metro apps and display at the same time not windowed. APPS are designed for full screen only. That is the limiting factor in metro, does not belong on a X86 operating system.

 

[Ray8]

The learning curve for Windows 8 is actually quite small. I have several relatives, including one who's never owned a computer before, who are able to pick it up quickly and do all of the tasks they wish.

Again, you keep referencing these limitations, but you have yet to explain what limitations you are talking about. You've already suggested that you can only run one app at a time, which isn't true. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...if you don't like the Tiled UI or the "apps" then don't use them. It's a simple as that. I could go an entire day of using my ultrabook without every once seeing the Tiled UI. If I want to, or use some of the apps (which there are plenty I've found useful or entertaining), they're a button press away. I can install any and all programs I need to use as well, such as my web dev stuff, Office, etc., and use them in a standard desktop environment that we've had for years. That's far from what I'd call "limiting".

Since few ever seem to read my previous posts, where I've listed the issues quite clearly, I've decided to keep a separate copy so that I can spoon feed each and every objector.

______________________________

What are the limitations of Windows 8 start screen and apps?

Note:

I'm well aware are that you can get third party software that can completely eliminate the Windows 8 start menu if you want to do so, but my criticisms are based on what Microsoft has provided, not software hacks that others have created to address an ever increasing demand for something better.

Start screen:

Most programs, the majority actually, still open in the desktop, yet every time that one wishes to open another program, you have to leave the desktop to get to the menu and find whatever you're looking for. The Windows 7 option of a cascading menu system and taskbar shortcuts is far more practical and efficient to use; it's there all the time, in front of you.

That system also gives comfort to traditional users who, given the option, clearly want the desktop as their first port of call on their PC. If that option had been offered, there would be few complaints and users could have learned the Windows start menu and apps in their own time. While the start menu is not difficult to use, it's fundamentally pointless on a desktop and simply wastes real estate and creates additional moves.

Apps:

Apps are only able to be opened at full screen. You can't re-size, move about, or work on an open app at the size/location that you choose to suit your needs. Nor can you create an app start menu, or alternative start menu, that contains your favourite apps re-sized and located how you want, so that when you start your PC, you can have your most used apps at the ready.

Yes, I know that you can shuffle the icons about into new groups, but they are still nothing more than a link and limited to the existing sizing options. Yes, you can have two apps open side by side; however, they still take up the full screen. The apps are designed to be used on mobile phones as the base size, it’s a one hat fits all philosophy. Desktop users expect and deserve more given their working environment and for this not to be available shows lack of forethought, or perhaps lack of interest in desktop users and that includes all notebook, laptop and even tablet users (I'm a tablet users that uses the tablet for business related work).
______________________________

 

[Fredledingue]

The Metro Start Screen looks silly on a PC. Period. It just gives you agigantic cellphone screen... with the same limitation as on a cellphone, just oversized.

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It's too lame to be used on a powerful machine.

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W8 may not be that bad, but time will show that Metro-for-PC will be a flop. I don't know who is going to use mobile phone apps on a computer, seriousely. Doesn't make any sens when you have computer apps already. This is not serious-job oriented.

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I hope that MS is working on a version of Windows a little bit less Disney-Land.

 

[gazz9496]

metro for pc wouldn't be a flop though...it's the concept of actual phone apps on the pc that will do the most harm.

all microsoft need to do is offer an update for pc users that gives them the flexibility they need that the current metro doesn't offer, options to omit apps written for phones from the pc store search and tiny quality of life stuff like that.

maybe i'm so used to metro it feels normal these days, even with the bits i want missing from it

 

[labeeman]

of course their will be a windows 9, how it looks and functions may depend on certain other movements in the hardware industry though, like a bigger uptake in touchscreen for one.

and their are the big glass windows that act as screens and such being demo'd, i think a great deal of that type of tech will be what any future o/s will depend on for some of it's inovations.

Yes there will be a Windows 9 but after the bad taste that Microsoft is leaving in millions of users will they buy it?

 

[DeaconFrost]

I'm well aware are that you can get third party software that can completely eliminate the Windows 8 start menu if you want to do so, but my criticisms are based on what Microsoft has provided, not software hacks that others have created to address an ever increasing demand for something better.

But that's the point I've been trying to make. If we're going to debate a topic...debate what is available. It would have been much better if the option for a full Start Menu was included...but it isn't. It would be incredibly closed-minded to ignore Windows 8 for that reason alone. Once you restore that functionality, even without 3rd party installed software using one of the tutorials here, you eliminate the gripes. I only use the Tiled UI for what amounts to a screen saver, and I've removed all the default tiles, replacing them with apps I feel are useful to me. When I'm actually using the computer, I'm using a standard desktop environment, running whatever and however many programs I want. That's how it is, and that's what should be discussed. Yes, we all agree that functionality should have shipped by default, but it didn't. We've all gotten past that point, and that's why we're posting here...because we're users of Windows 8.

 

[bobbyk]

Deacon, I have my Win8 setup basically the same as yours. I have my desktop shortcuts and a few of the Tiles I use, like Netflix for example. I find no problems with going from one environment to the other. I have Classic shell installed but I rarely use it. I made a few shortcuts, including one to here and have them pinned to the start menu. Getting around is no problem.

 

[labeeman]

Tanzanos, I'm going to take it your in the under 30 crowd. Because if you were around when Windows was originally introduced you would know this so-called Start Menu is nothing more than a fancier version of Windows 3.x. Tiles/Icons it's ALL apples and oranges to me.

And even Apple knows that apples and oranges do not mix.

 

[labeeman]

[h=1]I believe Win 8 is going to be another Windows Vista[/h]
After looking around some and seeing that Classic Shell has been downloaded over one and a half million times I do not think that any more I think it will be at least 5 to 6 times worse even though the desktop is better than Windows 7 and all because Microsoft tried to marry the desktop with a toy. I should not have to leave the desktop to get a tool to use on the desktop because Microsoft took my tools away. Yes I can get my tools back with Classic Shell but that in not the point Microsoft should have given me the choice. They should haven given me the choice to have the RT VM on my machine it is my machine after all.

I would like to remove the RT VM from my machine because I do not like TOY operating systems on my machine.

 

[Tanzanos]

I believe Win 8 is going to be another Windows Vista


After looking around some and seeing that Classic Shell has been downloaded over one and a half million times I do not think that any more I think it will be at least 5 to 6 times worse even though the desktop is better than Windows 7 and all because Microsoft tried to marry the desktop with a toy. I should not have to leave the desktop to get a tool to use on the desktop because Microsoft took my tools away. Yes I can get my tools back with Classic Shell but that in not the point Microsoft should have given me the choice. They should haven given me the choice to have the RT VM on my machine it is my machine after all.

I would like to remove the RT VM from my machine because I do not like TOY operating systems on my machine.

I absolutely agree!

 

[labeeman]

I have just remembered where I have seen a UI similar to the metro UI except their were no touch screens then just mouses and this goes way back even before windows. Norton Commander a dos based UI could only bring up one APP at a time. Looks like Microsoft bought the rights for Norton Commander to put on there RT machines.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

I believe Win 8 is going to be another Windows Vista


After looking around some and seeing that Classic Shell has been downloaded over one and a half million times I do not think that any more I think it will be at least 5 to 6 times worse even though the desktop is better than Windows 7 and all because Microsoft tried to marry the desktop with a toy. I should not have to leave the desktop to get a tool to use on the desktop because Microsoft took my tools away. Yes I can get my tools back with Classic Shell but that in not the point Microsoft should have given me the choice. They should haven given me the choice to have the RT VM on my machine it is my machine after all.

I would like to remove the RT VM from my machine because I do not like TOY operating systems on my machine.

Lets change this to say...Automobiles, NOW the standard tire iron WILL get the job done, BUT if you get a 4 way tire bar, which would be easier? The 4 way of course. BUT is it included with you car purchase? NO! You go out and get it to make your tire changing easier, so why not go out and get Classic shell to make your computing life easier?

 

[labeeman]

I believe Win 8 is going to be another Windows Vista


After looking around some and seeing that Classic Shell has been downloaded over one and a half million times I do not think that any more I think it will be at least 5 to 6 times worse even though the desktop is better than Windows 7 and all because Microsoft tried to marry the desktop with a toy. I should not have to leave the desktop to get a tool to use on the desktop because Microsoft took my tools away. Yes I can get my tools back with Classic Shell but that in not the point Microsoft should have given me the choice. They should haven given me the choice to have the RT VM on my machine it is my machine after all.

I would like to remove the RT VM from my machine because I do not like TOY operating systems on my machine.

Lets change this to say...Automobiles, NOW the standard tire iron WILL get the job done, BUT if you get a 4 way tire bar, which would be easier? The 4 way of course. BUT is it included with you car purchase? NO! You go out and get it to make your tire changing easier, so why not go out and get Classic shell to make your computing life easier?

Who knows the windows system best Classic Shell or Microsoft? Thats who I should be getting my shell from for my desktop.

 

[Tepid]

Because labeeman likes to label Win8 a toy without actually learning how to use it and see what it does offer.

See, I think there are certain people that are just stuck in place and can't see the point in actually trying to start something new.

Hmm,, funny I just saw a video posted around here about that very thing.
Stale, stuck in mediocrity with Apple, Google, and an almost 20 year old desktop concept.

they can't , no, refuse, to see what can be done to try and make things better,

And if that first iteration of an attempt at something new isn't exactly on par godly perfect,
well, it's junk and why should we even look at it. We should ridicule it to nonexistence.
isn't that a something a,,, I cant' remember,, Paul, or Ball, or Crawl, some Alyk guy,,, Freeze it Polarize it Destroy It.

 

[labeeman]

Because labeeman likes to label Win8 a toy without actually learning how to use it and see what it does offer.

See, I think there are certain people that are just stuck in place and can't see the point in actually trying to start something new.

Hmm,, funny I just saw a video posted around here about that very thing.
Stale, stuck in mediocrity with Apple, Google, and an almost 20 year old desktop concept.

they can't , no, refuse, to see what can be done to try and make things better,

And if that first iteration of an attempt at something new isn't exactly on par godly perfect,
well, it's junk and why should we even look at it. We should ridicule it to nonexistence.
isn't that a something a,,, I cant' remember,, Paul, or Ball, or Crawl, some Alyk guy,,, Freeze it Polarize it Destroy It.

I think it is a TOY not until I saw several TV adds showing it as a toy Microsoft even thinks it is a TOY or else they would be showing in a different way. I have a laptop with Window8 on it Window8 will never see that TOY UI on my desktop. It took me all of 2 hours to figure the TOY UI out it seems that it has taken some of the yes people A week or more or they imply that a new user take A week or more to get used to it before installing Classic Shell HOG WASH.

 

[gazz9496]

Because labeeman likes to label Win8 a toy without actually learning how to use it and see what it does offer.

See, I think there are certain people that are just stuck in place and can't see the point in actually trying to start something new.

Hmm,, funny I just saw a video posted around here about that very thing.
Stale, stuck in mediocrity with Apple, Google, and an almost 20 year old desktop concept.

they can't , no, refuse, to see what can be done to try and make things better,

And if that first iteration of an attempt at something new isn't exactly on par godly perfect,
well, it's junk and why should we even look at it. We should ridicule it to nonexistence.
isn't that a something a,,, I cant' remember,, Paul, or Ball, or Crawl, some Alyk guy,,, Freeze it Polarize it Destroy It.

hehe some interesting points there tepid.

i think after windows 7 which whether some agree or not got pretty much everything right, was close to being the perfect o/s, many held windows 8 up to a higher standard and were let down.

they raised the bar and failed to meet it themselves.

if we think xp was around for too long just imagine how long win 7 will be around for.

I can't see a big uptake in touch based o/s untill there is greater market saturation of touch devices be they stations/desks/walls(not an actual wall) pretty much anything that can be imagined that would improve the experience from a user standpoint.

microsoft weren't wrong to release windows 8...they just released it at a time when there was little really impressive supporting hardware to make the experience worthwhile.

 

[labeeman]

Because labeeman likes to label Win8 a toy without actually learning how to use it and see what it does offer.

See, I think there are certain people that are just stuck in place and can't see the point in actually trying to start something new.

Hmm,, funny I just saw a video posted around here about that very thing.
Stale, stuck in mediocrity with Apple, Google, and an almost 20 year old desktop concept.

they can't , no, refuse, to see what can be done to try and make things better,

And if that first iteration of an attempt at something new isn't exactly on par godly perfect,
well, it's junk and why should we even look at it. We should ridicule it to nonexistence.
isn't that a something a,,, I cant' remember,, Paul, or Ball, or Crawl, some Alyk guy,,, Freeze it Polarize it Destroy It.

hehe some interesting points there tepid.

i think after windows 7 which whether some agree or not got pretty much everything right, was close to being the perfect o/s, many held windows 8 up to a higher standard and were let down.

they raised the bar and failed to meet it themselves.

if we think xp was around for too long just imagine how long win 7 will be around for.

I can't see a big uptake in touch based o/s untill there is greater market saturation of touch devices be they stations/desks/walls(not an actual wall) pretty much anything that can be imagined that would improve the experience from a user standpoint.

microsoft weren't wrong to release windows 8...they just released it at a time when there was little really impressive supporting hardware to make the experience worthwhile.

Yes I was let down. I ordered a 4 wheel drive one ton truck with all the bells and whistles when it came in I unpacked it and discovered a 4 wheel drive one ton truck but all the bells and whistles were on the scooter that I had to tow around all the time even the keys for the truck were on the scooter. This is how Window8 works and do not try to convince me other wise because you will be talking to your self.