Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC

Summary: IDC’s top 10 system software predictions for 2012 are out. One of them casts doubt on Microsoft’s potential market for Windows 8 among traditional PC users.

It’s that time of year: The time when prognosticators get out their crystal balls and make predictions.

The researchers at IDC have just released to their clients their “Worldwide System Infrastructure Software 2012 Top 10 Predictions.” (Al Gillen Program VP, System Software, tweeted the list of ten on December 2.)

One of those predictions caught my eye: “Windows 8 Will Launch with Split Success.”

Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC | ZDNet
 
Who is actually using the Start Menu to launch a program with so many other choices on the desktop. The problem with the Start Screen is that it interferes with access to the desktop as you well know. MS wants to replace your desktop with the Start screen. They want you to be looking at the Start Screen so that you would be familiarized with it and then go out and buy their tablets. They expect this Pavlovian response.

Now, honestly, do you really see the screen you have just displayed as appropriate for large monitors???? This is kiddy stuff!!!
I personally do use the start menu, I remember the huge transition that happened between MS DOS, Windows 3.1, and then to Windows 95. The desktop was really first implemented in Windows 95, before that the first GUI implementation in Windows 3.1 looked like this:
win31.jpg
Which in my opinion is even better than Windows current implementation of having the listed folder layout of the start menu in Windows 7. Also I and many other people use the start menu to launch programs, I only leave shortcuts for thing I find absolutly necessarily on my desktop, as I prefer a minimalism clutter and clean look.

Also you say the MS is trying to kill the desktop, they never officially stated "Hey guys we want to kill the desktop!", what they did say was that they want a uniform platform experience, which I believe to be a huge plus and a step in the right direction.

Also you were asking about how the metro ui would be appropriate for large monitors, and to this I have a answer. The Metro UI can be adjusted based on screen resolution, effectively re-sizing and scaling the live tiles based on monitor resolution, dots per inch, and the pixels per inch.

You also have to remember that the current release of Windows 8 is a Developers Preview, and only meant to be that, a preview, I am certain without a doubt that things will change between now and the Beta.

Also I want to point out that me liking the Metro UI is merely my opinion and preference, and you have your own opinion and preferences, which I respect, but please don't freak out by typing with insult:
Now, honestly, do you really see the screen you have just displayed as appropriate for large monitors???? This is kiddy stuff!!!
Accepting change? Why? For change's sake??? If they ask you to walk around naked would you do it?
I amazed that you like it.
If you did not mean to be rude, I am sorry for misunderstanding, They teach us to many things in Psychology and AP Language:p
 

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I personally do use the start menu, I remember the huge transition that happened between MS DOS, Windows 3.1, and then to Windows 95. The desktop was really first implemented in Windows 95, before that the first GUI implementation in Windows 3.1 looked like this:
View attachment 2963
Which in my opinion is even better than Windows current implementation of having the listed folder layout of the start menu in Windows 7. Also I and many other people use the start menu to launch programs, I only leave shortcuts for thing I find absolutly necessarily on my desktop, as I prefer a minimalism clutter and clean look.

Also you say the MS is trying to kill the desktop, they never officially stated "Hey guys we want to kill the desktop!", what they did say was that they want a uniform platform experience, which I believe to be a huge plus and a step in the right direction.

Also you were asking about how the metro ui would be appropriate for large monitors, and to this I have a answer. The Metro UI can be adjusted based on screen resolution, effectively re-sizing and scaling the live tiles based on monitor resolution, dots per inch, and the pixels per inch.

You also have to remember that the current release of Windows 8 is a Developers Preview, and only meant to be that, a preview, I am certain without a doubt that things will change between now and the Beta.

Also I want to point out that me liking the Metro UI is merely my opinion and preference, and you have your own opinion and preferences, which I respect, but please don't freak out by typing with insult:



If you did not mean to be rude, I am sorry for misunderstanding, They teach us to many things in Psychology and AP Language:p

First of all, I did not mean to be rude. However, I repeatedly indicated that I am not resistant to change. In fact, I am very much a "techie" guy. But the "accusation" of being "resistant to change" is leveled against every opponent of the Start menu as if it makes any sense. It does not. One should not be the opponent of progress but not all change should be regarded as progress. I hope that we understand each other on this.

Now, neither most power users or even mildly experienced users use the Start menu. Most either attach icons of their commonly used programs in the desktop or on the taskbar. One would only have to go to the start menu for obscure items. Then you are forgetting the instant search in the Start button that can bring up virtually every document. However, I hardly even use this. I place documents or programs that I work often in a Library and simply attach a Library icon to the desktop. Voila!!! The silly Metro-style Start screen is an impediment to getting work done, not a help.

I really could not believe your comments about large monitors. Of course things would scale up. But what may look cute on a phone, may look just passable in a tablet and really horrible on a large display. Do you want to see this Lego-style monochrome tasteless Start Menu when your computer boots up??? I think not. I hope that you have better taste than that. It is a throw-back to the days of early computing. In fact, Lenovo offers something very similar for its Thinkpad line of laptops and nobody hardly ever uses it. If you buy a Thinkpad, you would see an invitation to use this shell that looks very much like the Start Screen. I will be darned if there is a single Thinkpad owner that has installed it.

I had to chuckle on the "consistent" experience. MS is assuming that I would have a WP phone and a Windows tablet. It would not happen. WP7 is way behind the curve compared to iOS and Android and the gap is not closing. In addition, Win8 tablets may sell horribly (which would be likely the case). MS should worry about a consistent interface only if there is such level of penetration. Now, it is quite apparent that MS is using its monopoly on the desktop to push this interface on many users. This explains the stupid monomania with this Start Screen. The legitimate approach would be to let users enable or disable it. But MS does not want to do this because it knows that virtually all users will disable it!!!!

So, if you have strong confidence that most users would "love" the Start Screen, you should petition MS to make it optional. Let's see how many users would install it. My guess: Less than 5%. As you have seen in an another thread here, the overwhelming number of those who downloaded the Dev Preview, have abandoned it, very much like me.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
I don't see how Microsoft is killing the Desktop user. I mean, if you don't care for full screen apps, just don't use them.

True, but if you're using 7 what's the point of buying 8? Getting rid of Metro makes it only marginally different to the typical user.

I dislike android because I believe it's simply a jailbroken iphone with the droid being the quintessential android and other phones being like the descendants of Cain; disunified and hideous and unstable. I can't stand to use androids because there are three different versions out there with different navigations, different skins, and just flat out confusing.

I've owned an Android phone for almost two years and don't know what on earth you're talking about. Haven't heard anyone use the word skins in about 10 years. Different navigations? I've used two major versions of Android and the differences were cosmetic and performance, never noticed a change in the way I navigate through stuff. If you get confused using any smart phone you shouldn't even have one - iPhone, Android, Windows, it doesn't matter. They're some of the most dumb-downed electronics out there. They all do pretty much the same thing now, although it's still easier to customize an Android phone and you have more hardware and carrier choices.

I think android is quite ridiculous. I was helping a friend free up space on her phone to install Netflix on it, and there was a notification saying there wasn't enough space to do so. I literally took me five minutes to realize that I had to go Notifications, click on that space notification, and THEN I got a list of installed apps to uninstall. I assumed from my experience with iphone and WP7 that it would be a fairly simple set up, go to settings, apps, and uninstall. But no.

android is a fragmented market. Today, I went to target and I was looking at the phones and there are versions, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 and 4 being sold. If that was Windows, it would be xp, vista, vista SP2, and 7. No one does that, no one should. I think if a company is to make an operating system for phones, just keep it a consistent operating system. I don't understand how something that runs an ARM processor is running an operating system that needs more power. I don't get it. They're phones, not laptops, not tablets.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
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    PC/Desktop
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    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
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    Crosshair V Formula-Z
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    16 gig DDR3
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    ASUS R9 270
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    1440x900
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    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
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    OCZ 500 watt
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    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
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    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
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    Microsoft Touch Mouse
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    Internet Explorer 11
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    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
View attachment 2959View attachment 2960This is what my Start Screen looks like. I have it as customizable as far as the build will allow. I don't see the Start Screen as obliterating the Desktop. I see it more as an extension of such. It has all my program icons, with their names, in grids. What can you find looks like that? A typical Windows desktop. And I use some metro apps that go full screen. What Windows programs do that? Games, video players, music players. Unlike those, some display relevant information.

Do you honestly think that this is in any way visually appealing or helpful????? I am lost in a group of grey squares with no visual appeal whatsoever. Compared to the desktop, it looks drab. In addition, there is no way to include all the elements that I want in this screen. It is not usable and it is not attractive. But this is what happens when you design an operating system to be efficient in small screens (4 to 11''). This is by definition counterproductive for the desktop.

I amazed that you like it. Compared with the visual appeal of the desktop with icons, taskbar and gadgets, you have a blown-up phone interface that lacks depth and any kind of finesse or design appeal. Microsoft will find all this to its horror.
I find it visually appealing, its just a matter of preference and accepting change. I find the new start menu better than the ones in the older windows versions, I just don't like looking at a linear list of folders in a small space trying to find the program I need.

I second this with an utmost passion.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
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    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
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    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
I personally do use the start menu, I remember the huge transition that happened between MS DOS, Windows 3.1, and then to Windows 95. The desktop was really first implemented in Windows 95, before that the first GUI implementation in Windows 3.1 looked like this:
View attachment 2963
Which in my opinion is even better than Windows current implementation of having the listed folder layout of the start menu in Windows 7. Also I and many other people use the start menu to launch programs, I only leave shortcuts for thing I find absolutly necessarily on my desktop, as I prefer a minimalism clutter and clean look.

Also you say the MS is trying to kill the desktop, they never officially stated "Hey guys we want to kill the desktop!", what they did say was that they want a uniform platform experience, which I believe to be a huge plus and a step in the right direction.

Also you were asking about how the metro ui would be appropriate for large monitors, and to this I have a answer. The Metro UI can be adjusted based on screen resolution, effectively re-sizing and scaling the live tiles based on monitor resolution, dots per inch, and the pixels per inch.

You also have to remember that the current release of Windows 8 is a Developers Preview, and only meant to be that, a preview, I am certain without a doubt that things will change between now and the Beta.

Also I want to point out that me liking the Metro UI is merely my opinion and preference, and you have your own opinion and preferences, which I respect, but please don't freak out by typing with insult:



If you did not mean to be rude, I am sorry for misunderstanding, They teach us to many things in Psychology and AP Language:p
:)
I agree, this is simply a Developer's Preview build. This is a change in the release schedule of Microsoft for Windows. Traditionally, a DP of Windows never has any visuals implemented. The DP of 7 I believe was literally like vista, but with more stable code. Microsoft coded the Start Screen for the DP build so developers can get used to it. They've even said that the DP build is limited and there is SO MUCH MORE than just that. There will be Groups to organize programs, color customizations, maybe even themes, probably DPI changes. It's like a touch version of the Desktop. You can have dozens of icons on your desktop and change the DPI to make them smaller.

And yes, hostility is a good calling card of resistance to change.. :p
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
First of all, I did not mean to be rude. However, I repeatedly indicated that I am not resistant to change. In fact, I am very much a "techie" guy. But the "accusation" of being "resistant to change" is leveled against every opponent of the Start menu as if it makes any sense. It does not. One should not be the opponent of progress but not all change should be regarded as progress. I hope that we understand each other on this.

Now, neither most power users or even mildly experienced users use the Start menu. Most either attach icons of their commonly used programs in the desktop or on the taskbar. One would only have to go to the start menu for obscure items. Then you are forgetting the instant search in the Start button that can bring up virtually every document. However, I hardly even use this. I place documents or programs that I work often in a Library and simply attach a Library icon to the desktop. Voila!!! The silly Metro-style Start screen is an impediment to getting work done, not a help.

I really could not believe your comments about large monitors. Of course things would scale up. But what may look cute on a phone, may look just passable in a tablet and really horrible on a large display. Do you want to see this Lego-style monochrome tasteless Start Menu when your computer boots up??? I think not. I hope that you have better taste than that. It is a throw-back to the days of early computing. In fact, Lenovo offers something very similar for its Thinkpad line of laptops and nobody hardly ever uses it. If you buy a Thinkpad, you would see an invitation to use this shell that looks very much like the Start Screen. I will be darned if there is a single Thinkpad owner that has installed it.

I had to chuckle on the "consistent" experience. MS is assuming that I would have a WP phone and a Windows tablet. It would not happen. WP7 is way behind the curve compared to iOS and Android and the gap is not closing. In addition, Win8 tablets may sell horribly (which would be likely the case). MS should worry about a consistent interface only if there is such level of penetration. Now, it is quite apparent that MS is using its monopoly on the desktop to push this interface on many users. This explains the stupid monomania with this Start Screen. The legitimate approach would be to let users enable or disable it. But MS does not want to do this because it knows that virtually all users will disable it!!!!

So, if you have strong confidence that most users would "love" the Start Screen, you should petition MS to make it optional. Let's see how many users would install it. My guess: Less than 5%. As you have seen in an another thread here, the overwhelming number of those who downloaded the Dev Preview, have abandoned it, very much like me.

I understand that not everyone is resistant to change. But just flat out rejecting it isn't the best way to go with this. You can search like one has been able to since vista. It takes a start key and a typed phrase. For the start menu, that was the point of getting rid of it. No one really uses it other than to access Libraries, Computer, or Control Panel. All the commonly used programs get pinned neatly, while it is usually a mess of folders. Speaking of such, I don't understand how the iphone, maybe android has grouping functions to reduce the amount of screens of apps.

Anyways, when you look at some concepts of Windows, like Whistler (xp), or even 2000, they've had a vision of modern design. I recently saw a screenshot of a build of 2000's login screen, it honestly is reminiscent of 8's user screen. In Whistler's bootup screen, it was a monolithic grey Windows flag with a four bar loading bar of red, green, blue, and yellow that seems metro like. They've had pretty impressive concepts, like Longhorn, but what usually has stopped them is either a) underproducing or b) user resistance. The selling point of Windows is that there is familiarity. But people have gone to android and ipad tablets and that has somewhat flourished. The main selling point of Windows is being attacked. People have been able to adapt to new interfaces that are much different from what they've used.

Microsoft had to change their flagship product to adapt to these times. I don't want to see a world of android, apple, and chrome os. Just no. This is a step in the right direction. Many market analyzers have been wanting Microsoft to release a Windows version to these times. A 16 year old model simply doesn't work on devices that people are going to, tablets. There has been Windows Slates, but no one wants to use them, because it isn't designed for such.

I wouldn't doubt the WP7. In reality, the happy android user is using a Samsung or Motorola Droid phone, not an lg phone running gingerbread. Even Verizon wireless deems those phones as "basic" phones. Those users from my experience would love something better, and when I show them a Windows Phone 7, they're awed by it's actual features and simplicity. I know, it's dumbing things down, but the average user isn't the brightest tech person, hence, that's why best buy is still around. :D

Even then, you cannot convince the average middle class person that has Windows 7 to upgrade to Windows 8 if there isn't anything beneficial other than faster startup and shutdown. You just can't. I've seen people take a year to decide to upgrade from vista to 7 because if they think it works (which it doesn't, a two minute startup with a couple minutes to wait for 3rd party programs to start isn't fast), they won't upgrade. It generally will take a review from a friend or family member that recommends it. When I show off Windows 8 to people, they're intrigued by it. They find it fascinating. They think it's cool and worthy to upgrade. I find pleasure seeing peoples' faces when I launched every app and program install on a laptop and switch to another user account in a couple seconds and launch even more apps and programs in that account and switch quickly back to the other. It's awesome to see and hear people being impressed by the Metro animations. It's great to hear people enjoying it.

Microsoft can't make a living supporting only power users of Windows. Although some find the Start Screen cumbersome, just wait. It's a build between alpha and beta. It's a build to promote metro app design. Microsoft isn't forgetting Desktop users, they realized that hundreds of millions of people use it every day. We've only seen one aspect of Windows 8. We haven't seen the other facet of it, Desktop. But that might be a stickler since that will be Metro designed. I bet that the Pictures library will be metroized. Just like when you browse for User Tiles and Lock Screens. I see Windows 8 as the transition from DOS to GUI and 3.1 to 95. It's truly a major time for a product that has been used more than a billion times in the past couple decades.
 

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System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
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    PC/Desktop
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    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Microsoft can't make a living supporting only power users of Windows. Although some find the Start Screen cumbersome, just wait. It's a build between alpha and beta. It's a build to promote metro app design. Microsoft isn't forgetting Desktop users, they realized that hundreds of millions of people use it every day. We've only seen one aspect of Windows 8. We haven't seen the other facet of it, Desktop. But that might be a stickler since that will be Metro designed. I bet that the Pictures library will be metroized. Just like when you browse for User Tiles and Lock Screens. I see Windows 8 as the transition from DOS to GUI and 3.1 to 95. It's truly a major time for a product that has been used more than a billion times in the past couple decades.

Well, I appreciate your effort in trying to explain to me the rationale of how dumbing down an OS is good for business. I do not buy it. I find Metro esthetically offensive and repugnant. I would certainly not spend a penny on MS OSs for the foreseeable future. In fact, Win8 may be what I need to move to another OS. Maybe MS would find enough grandmas and grandpas willing to touch its tiles. I think that I have better things to do. It is high time to really evaluate moving to the MacOS. I believe that Win8 would be what the doctor ordered for Apple. The collapse of MS share in the enterprise would not be long in coming. In fact, it would be a good opportunity to go short on Microsoft. Highly recommended.

Personally, I do not mind the world of Android. I do have an Android phone that is far more capable and far more customizable (and even user friendly) than a WP7 phone. WP7 is the dumbing down of the smartphone. It is not even very user friendly. The moment you live the Metro front screen, all you see is a stupid list of apps and no way of customizing it. Yikes!!! Yes, grandmas and grandpas would like this type of a phone, but I can bet you that most would not buy it. In fact, this is what is happening. You have difficulty believing it, but Metro is not visually appealing. It simply does not have the visual appeal of an interface that marries icons and widgets (many of which are fantastically animated). Not only that, but these widgets in Android do all that the "tiles" do and even more. Thus, if you even bother to fashion the screens of an Android phone with widgets, you would get something far more visually appealing than WP7 and more informative (and you can even resize these widgets in ICS). Why would I like a dumb-down smart phone????

This is the beauty of Android that MS has not grasped. One can make the inteface as dumb or as smart as one wishes. It gives one choices if one wants to venture beyond what the manufacturer has placed there. And seriously, I find HTC phones with Sense more easy to use for an average consumer than WP7.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
HI there
HTC Phones (or ANY smart phone) isn't as simple to use as people think they are -- and as for all those horrible apps all over the place doing goodness knows what (it's almost impossible to see what's ACTUALLY RUNNING on an android phone) well I'll pass on the whole idea of "Apps". - If you travel and use your phone for "Roaming" you invariable won't be able to install an app anyway --it will say "Phone not registered" and then you need to use some weird google gmail account.

If MS can keep away from this whole NONSENSE while still allowing traditional desktop users to install proper 3rd party software -- not these "Mickey Mouse" apps from some "app store" then W8 will be just fine -- and actually provided there aren't too many of them displayed at once the Metro idea isn't a bad thing to have even on a traditional desktop.

I don't have anything against a traditional start type menu either -- I hate having too many icons / logos on a desktop.

What IMO W8 should have --like Linux has had for AGES and even XP did it passably was to allow a number of Virtual Desktops that you could switch between easily.

Memory and CPU of modern computers - even netbooks - can accomadte the overhead easily enough.

From what I've seen of W8 so far I rather like it -- but we shall see nearer Beta if a load of "Bloat" has been added which could slow it down.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
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    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)
As far as enterprise goes the cost of upgrading is significant because of lost production time during the upgrade process as well as the license costs etc. That alone is enough to make 8 irrelevant so forget about metro being the problem. Most places I have been still use win2k for just that reason.

As far as a tablet goes I would gladly pay the same exact price as an ipad2 for a tablet with win8 simple as that. I loath android and things that begin with a lower case i. Imagine a quad core or better tablet running win8 just let that visualization swash around in your brain for a moment... Yeah I know to much awesome to handle.
 

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  • OS
    Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Build (What Else Would It Be?)
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    AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz, 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5
    Memory
    CORSAIR DOMINATOR GT 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866 DDR3
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    XFX HD-697A-CNDC Radeon HD6970 2GB 256-bit
    Sound Card
    Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Platinum Fatal1ty Edition
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    Dual 25 Inch Hanns-G HZ251
    Screen Resolution
    3840x1080 (1920x1080 x2)
    PSU
    Corsair 850W Single Rail
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    Thermaltake V9 BlacX w/ Dual HDD Docking Station
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    Air/Copper
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    Kensington (Low-Profile)
    Mouse
    Creative Fatal1ty
    Internet Speed
    Cable 15Gbit (15 Down 5 Up)
    Other Info
    XIGMATEK HDT-S1284F 120mm HYPRO Bearing CPU Cooler, LG Blu-Ray Burner.
Metro isnt the only enhancement in W8, we will have to wait to see what the beta reserves for tradtional desktop users, and I personaly think it's gonna be good ! :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10.0.10122
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    My Build - Vorttex Ultimate
    CPU
    Core i7 @ 4500 MHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS Z87-Plus
    Memory
    32GB DDR3 @ 1822 MHz (OC)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon R9 280X 3GB @ 1180 / 6800 MHz
    Sound Card
    7.1 HDA
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD LG 22" + CRT LG 17"
    Screen Resolution
    1760 x 1320 / 1280 x 960
    Hard Drives
    1 x 240 GB SSD (System)
    3 x 500 GB HDD (Data/Media)
    1 x 2000 GB e-HDD (Backup)
    PSU
    ThermalTake 1000W PSU
    Case
    Corsair Carbide R300
    Cooling
    Corsair H60 (Push-Pull)
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Wireless Keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Wireless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps (Down) 5 Mbps (Up)
    Browser
    IE, FF, Chrome
    Antivirus
    AVG Internet Security 2015
    Other Info
    Some wired stuff
Yes, for crying out loud, some people are judging a Windows operating system based solely off an undeveloped, developer preview build. It's not even done yet! Microsoft got the Start Screen pushed out for the DP so developers can get used to it. There's obviously much more to come. Microsoft showed off features that aren't in the DP during the BUILD conference a few months ago. We haven't used those features yet.

I mean, the concept of being able to see ALL of your installed programs and apps visually is great. I've installed Windows 7 multiple times and have configured Windows 7 installations and have always put every relevant program in the All Programs list of the start menu. That's sometimes in vain since I've had people tell me they've never used the start menu. Man, oh man, Microsoft wasn't kidding when they said people don't use it anymore! I've seen start menus that are a wild beast of folders and nothing is configured or moved around. The AVERAGE user doesn't do those sorts of things. They don't delete superfluous folders or move things around or change the size of the start menu so more is viewable. Simply saying the Start Screen is going to make Windows 8 a flop is one opinion out of millions. The average user might actually know what is installed on their hard drives now. Saying metro design is repugnant is one opinion out of millions that have already used products with metro design and love it for it's simplicity and visual appealing aspects. Just because there's a portion of Windows users that are power users that don't like metro doesn't mean that average user is going to dislike it for it "lack of customization." What's the need to customize the Start Screen? There's going to be color options, grouping options, pinning options, and potentially DPI options. But there's not going to be widgets that people really don't use. There will be apps for that that replace those widgets with something better.

Speaking of such, I don't ever see average users use desktop gadgets ever. Every install I do, I always install a system monitor gadget, put on the slideshow, weather, and an antiviruses' gadget. After some time and I do work on a particular installation, I always see most of them gone. Usually the weather gadget is left on there. That's probably why Microsoft isn't supporting the Live Gallery anymore.

Gee willakers you guys! :huh:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Yes, for crying out loud, some people are judging a Windows operating system based solely off an undeveloped, developer preview build. It's not even done yet! Microsoft got the Start Screen pushed out for the DP so developers can get used to it. There's obviously much more to come. Microsoft showed off features that aren't in the DP during the BUILD conference a few months ago. We haven't used those features yet.

I mean, the concept of being able to see ALL of your installed programs and apps visually is great. I've installed Windows 7 multiple times and have configured Windows 7 installations and have always put every relevant program in the All Programs list of the start menu. That's sometimes in vain since I've had people tell me they've never used the start menu. Man, oh man, Microsoft wasn't kidding when they said people don't use it anymore! I've seen start menus that are a wild beast of folders and nothing is configured or moved around. The AVERAGE user doesn't do those sorts of things. They don't delete superfluous folders or move things around or change the size of the start menu so more is viewable. Simply saying the Start Screen is going to make Windows 8 a flop is one opinion out of millions. The average user might actually know what is installed on their hard drives now. Saying metro design is repugnant is one opinion out of millions that have already used products with metro design and love it for it's simplicity and visual appealing aspects. Just because there's a portion of Windows users that are power users that don't like metro doesn't mean that average user is going to dislike it for it "lack of customization." What's the need to customize the Start Screen? There's going to be color options, grouping options, pinning options, and potentially DPI options. But there's not going to be widgets that people really don't use. There will be apps for that that replace those widgets with something better.

Speaking of such, I don't ever see average users use desktop gadgets ever. Every install I do, I always install a system monitor gadget, put on the slideshow, weather, and an antiviruses' gadget. After some time and I do work on a particular installation, I always see most of them gone. Usually the weather gadget is left on there. That's probably why Microsoft isn't supporting the Live Gallery anymore.

Gee willakers you guys! :huh:

Let me take a specific opinion that you have raised here:

"I mean, the concept of being able to see ALL of your installed programs and apps visually is great."


You are surely kidding. You cannot do this with the desktop and the taskbar? What would have been the difficulty in attaching "app" icons on the desktop? The same as coding for this "Start Screen", most likely.

You are saying:

"Just because there's a portion of Windows users that are power users that don't like metro doesn't mean that average user is going to dislike it for it "lack of customization." What's the need to customize the Start Screen?"

Why does this "Start Screen" exist at all? It could have been a simple task enabled from the desktop, couldn't it? If one wanted to see their "Metro-style" apps, one could have clicked on an appropriate icon on the desktop to see them. Or they could have been pinned on the desktop. Microsoft simply does not want you to go to the desktop. Period. MS wants users to be conditioned to see the "Start Screen". It is only by leveraging its dominance in the desktop that it can hope to have users buy their tablets and phones. My feeling is that this strategy would not work and it would backfire.

MS is busy demolishing the desktop. You may not have noticed, but MS has already eradicated most of the desktop gadgets. Why have a desktop gadget that shows you the weather when you can have a weather app on the Start Screen for which MS would collect revenue from? Why are you falling for this transparent ploy?

The only reasons for the Start Screen is (a) Condition Users and (b) extract revenue from apps. I can understand why developers of apps may be interested in mining the desktop (I would have to, had I been a developer), but why would I be interested?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
Windows 8 will become standard software to most CellPhones, Notebooks, Tablets and Pc's.
The OS, UI will be transferable between all units hardwire, wireless or Bluetooth and About the MeTro part of it
in the Pc world, Well you have the option of not using it and just run the desktop form.
Me myself and I can’t wait for the infinite ways that W8 will have to offer to its users.

m2c.

Ps Imaging the day you can have your own Mobil OS
it will be so cool that all you do is stick a usb to any hardware
and run your world like it’s your HoMe.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W7/WCPR
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Compaq dc7600 MiniTower
    CPU
    Pentiun P4 3.20GHz
    Motherboard
    HP
    Memory
    2G
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT
    Sound Card
    HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    SAMSUNG 48"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    WDC 500G ATA
Why does this "Start Screen" exist at all? It could have been a simple task enabled from the desktop, couldn't it? If one wanted to see their "Metro-style" apps, one could have clicked on an appropriate icon on the desktop to see them. Or they could have been pinned on the desktop. Microsoft simply does not want you to go to the desktop. Period. MS wants users to be conditioned to see the "Start Screen". It is only by leveraging its dominance in the desktop that it can hope to have users buy their tablets and phones. My feeling is that this strategy would not work and it would backfire.

Amen!

And now is the time to complain bout the direction W8 is taking, not when its friggin finished!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    xp, vista, 7, 8dp, ubuntu, osx
Coke Robot; said:
Man, oh man, Microsoft wasn't kidding when they said people don't use it anymore! I've seen start menus that are a wild beast of folders and nothing is configured or moved around. The AVERAGE user doesn't do those sorts of things. They don't delete superfluous folders or move things around or change the size of the start menu so more is viewable.

The average users don't do those things? I disagree. Surely, there are average users out there that have learned to tidy up the Start Menu and have learned to use it effectively like the ever useful search bar. Compare that to the Metro tiles, even uninstallers get pinned there as tile by default and are you sure that all "average" users out there would unpin and tidy those up? Plus the Start Menu takes much less space to display your apps than the Metro that takes the whole screen, interefering with your Desktop. I am not entirely against the Metro, I just don't want it merged with the Start Menu.

Speaking of such, I don't ever see average users use desktop gadgets ever. Every install I do, I always install a system monitor gadget, put on the slideshow, weather, and an antiviruses' gadget. After some time and I do work on a particular installation, I always see most of them gone. Usually the weather gadget is left on there. That's probably why Microsoft isn't supporting the Live Gallery anymore.
I have seen average users use the Desktop gadgets. I have seen them use the calendar, the clock and the picture slideshow. I myself use the clock, Black Calendar and the All CPU Meter which I believe is one of the most downloaded and used gadgets out there. Some users use an app called Rainmeter and its little gadgets as a replacement for the desktop gadgets and it makes the desktop very cool looking. Gadgets are still avialable on third party sites and highest rated ones are still displayed on the Windows Personalization Gallery so its not true that they are not being used at all.
I have included a screenshot of my desktop. As you can see, I put the shortcuts of many of my installed programs and games on a folder on the desktop and that makes it neat.


Desktop.png
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
Coke Robot; said:
Man, oh man, Microsoft wasn't kidding when they said people don't use it anymore! I've seen start menus that are a wild beast of folders and nothing is configured or moved around. The AVERAGE user doesn't do those sorts of things. They don't delete superfluous folders or move things around or change the size of the start menu so more is viewable.

The average users don't do those things? I disagree. Surely, there are average users out there that have learned to tidy up the Start Menu and have learned to use it effectively like the ever useful search bar. Compare that to the Metro tiles, even uninstallers get pinned there as tile by default and are you sure that all "average" users out there would unpin and tidy those up? Plus the Start Menu takes much less space to display your apps than the Metro that takes the whole screen, interefering with your Desktop. I am not entirely against the Metro, I just don't want it merged with the Start Menu.

Speaking of such, I don't ever see average users use desktop gadgets ever. Every install I do, I always install a system monitor gadget, put on the slideshow, weather, and an antiviruses' gadget. After some time and I do work on a particular installation, I always see most of them gone. Usually the weather gadget is left on there. That's probably why Microsoft isn't supporting the Live Gallery anymore.
I have seen average users use the Desktop gadgets. I have seen them use the calendar, the clock and the picture slideshow. I myself use the clock, Black Calendar and the All CPU Meter which I believe is one of the most downloaded and used gadgets out there. Some users use an app called Rainmeter and its little gadgets as a replacement for the desktop gadgets and it makes the desktop very cool looking. Gadgets are still avialable on third party sites and highest rated ones are still displayed on the Windows Personalization Gallery so its not true that they are not being used at all.
I have included a screenshot of my desktop. As you can see, I put the shortcuts of many of my installed programs and games on a folder on the desktop and that makes it neat.


View attachment 2971

Thank you. We are in full agreement. Unfortunately, two things work against those who would have MS further develop the desktop instead of playing with the "brain-damaged" Start Screen:

(a) Microsoft's almost monomania to enter the "mobile" computing environment (smartphones and tablets). With the Apple and Google/Amazon dominance of this space, MS has decided that the only way to muscle its way in is to leverage its dominance in the desktop. MS mavens have decided that if they condition users to look at a Metro-style screen all day, then they are far more likely to go out and buy MS tablets and smartphones. It is as simple as that. MS is about to conduct the largest Pavlovian experiment ever. Let's see if it works.

(b) The veritable hunger of the developers to sell "Metro-style" apps to the millions of desktop users. Previously, one got free desktop gadgets. Now, you would have to pony up $1.99 or something similar for a "Metro-style" app for the weather. MS is pushing this strongly. It has already killed most of the freebie weather gadgets of the desktop. Thus, MS expects to make lots of money from the Start Screen. Lots of money. Thus, it would never make Start Screen optional or easy to remove. This would hurt MS where it cares most: the wallet. Thus, developers, who are in these forums, are eager for the Start Screen and would defend it to their graves because it is a money maker. Clueless users stuck with the Start Screen, would spend money buying these "immersive full screen apps" to check the weather or whatever else these limited apps can do.

There you have it. The "Start Screen" is a direct consequence of Microsoft have been shut out of mobile computing. Microsoft knows that both you and I are correct and that the Start Screen is nothing but an impediment. But they have run out of ideas of how to enter mobile computing and this is their Hail Mary Pass. If this fails, it would not only remove MS from mobile computing, but MS would collapse in the desktop as well, trying very hard to bring out a Win9 to make up for the loss.

Thus, users who want to maintain a good desktop experience must now look elsewhere. Apple, for example, does not need the Mac OS to push its mobile platform, so one may see a much better evolution this OS going forward than one would see with Windows. It may be painful for many users to make the switch, but it may be inevitable. Windows is been shuttered in the pursuit of certain corporate goals including the survival of Steve Balmer. If Balmer's ploy fails and Win8 does not make it big, then he would be out almost immediately. Expect the return of Bill Gates at the time as the second coming of Jesus for Microsoft.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
I'm sure that some employees of Microsoft are watching this forum. So they know our reactions.

If the current standing of the WDP would remain till the Beta, I think more people that are already haters of the Metro would further be upset and lose enthusiasm with Windows 8. To some people, they are going backwards with this thing. Going retro with Metro that is.

However, let us see what a "non-Metro" Windows 8 will perform. I am not yet giving it all a thumbs downs since the "non-Metro" Windows 8 does have advantages over Windows 7. We will know more in weeks to come.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
I'm sure that some employees of Microsoft are watching this forum. So they know our reactions.

If the current standing of the WDP would remain till the Beta, I think more people that are already haters of the Metro would further be upset and lose enthusiasm with Windows 8. To some people, they are going backwards with this thing. Going retro with Metro that is.

However, let us see what a "non-Metro" Windows 8 will perform. I am not yet giving it all a thumbs downs since the "non-Metro" Windows 8 does have advantages over Windows 7. We will know more in weeks to come.


If there are Microsoft employees here, they would be busy boosting Win8. Their paychecks depend on it. And they would not dare open their mouths in any meetings. They would not want to be labelled as "not team players". You underestimate the power of groupthink.

As I said in another thread, Microsoft may decide to make the Metro interface optional for the "Enterprise" or "Professional" version of Win8 where it may ask anywhere between $199 to $349 for a license. This again hinges on how they see the enterprise sales going. The decision to have the Metro-style "Start Screen" on without the capability of switching it off seems to have been "hard-coded" because of the announcements of the Microsoft App store. Microsoft is not going to start an app store for an interface that it intends to make optional and which most users would not choose to enable. In fact, during the App Store announcements, MS discussed about the possibility of allowing enterprises to distribute "company apps" by specific workarounds (they would not be visible to the public). So, I do not expect any changes in the beta. If you do, you are an optimist.

Microsoft may have a plan B. If there is resistance to Win8, it may come out with Win7 "Second Edition" where it may put in some of the Win8 improvements (minor as they are) and sell a few more licenses this way. Or it would simply continue selling Win7 licenses as it happened with WinXP. Distributors would allow users to select either Win8 or Win7 (and the money goes to MS anyway). From the purely commercial point of view, Microsoft is covered either way.

Where Microsoft may really get hurt is perception among power users. It would not notice at first. This would take some time to bite. When many, including me, abandon Windows for something else, this decision would only be noticed if through our efforts more and more average users start abandoning Windows. At some point, this may get to be a real threat. For example, the Vista debacle cost Microsoft somewhere between 3-5% of global market share. It still has a very high marketshare (just above 90%), but this loss had an effect. The failure of the Metro "Start Screen" may open the way for Apple in the enterprise. Who knows, it is difficult to tell.

In summary, Microsoft believes that the upside of new Start Screen is good and the downside (some grumbling power users) not that negative. So, do not expect any changes. I would be surprised if there are any.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
Nice thoughts of you, ADRz. M$ would not put up an App Store if Metro can be optional or can be disabled that many users would.

But now that there are more and more people quitting WDP and going back to Windows 7, waiting for the beta and many of us emerging as critics of the Metro, of course its easy for Microsoft to see that coming and of course they have to respond. One guy on this forum said something that he knew some Microsoft employees and they said they are watching this forum. This may be a reason for them to shift tactics on future releases. Yes, I'm an optimist but hopefully, they will see they had a huge mistake in the long run.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
Nice thoughts of you, ADRz. M$ would not put up an App Store if Metro can be optional or can be disabled that many users would.

But now that there are more and more people quitting WDP and going back to Windows 7, waiting for the beta and many of us emerging as critics of the Metro, of course its easy for Microsoft to see that coming and of course they have to respond. One guy on this forum said something that he knew some Microsoft employees and they said they are watching this forum. This may be a reason for them to shift tactics on future releases. Yes, I'm an optimist but hopefully, they will see they had a huge mistake in the long run.

Good for you, being an optimist. I am not. Working in corporations I have found that a strategy, however misguided, gets to stick as long as those pushing it are at the helm. It would be nice to think of corporations as self-correcting entities but they are not. What would take to change directions at Microsoft is the departure of Steve Balmer and the leadership that he has installed over the Windows division.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
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