Win8pro

[znod]

And, on top of it all, MS says you don't [normally] need to shut down your PC completely under 8. See below. That's why they hid the power button. OK, so things are better than they used to be, but don't completely shut down an MS product with some regularity? I don't think so!!! I'd like to see your opinons on this matter. But, I'm not going to argue about it.

"Turn off or shut down a PC In Windows 8 and Windows RT, there's really no need to shut down your PC completely—put it in sleep mode instead. This uses very little power, your PC starts up faster, and you’re instantly back to where you left off. You don’t have to worry that you'll lose your work because Windows automatically saves it and turns off the PC if the battery is too low. For most laptops and tablets, sleep is the default shutdown mode so all you need to do is close your lid or press the power button. If it isn't, you can change that."

 

[HippsieGypsie]

@ Parks

MS is not "hell bent" IMO. Quite the contrary. They did not remove the Start Menu. They changed it to a combination of Start Screen and All Apps. I know you personally don't like that particular arrangement.

There's one thing about a "hunt". Once one finds something once, one usually remembers where the item is. So, again, they are not "hell" bent. They placed items in different places. They're intentions are not to piddle people off as you imply just because it's different.

We all continue to have the soft power button, just a different place. Mystere mentioned familiar ones of past OSs, although it's actually WinKey/C not I. I does bring it up all the same though.

 

[pparks1]

They did not remove the Start Menu. They changed it to a combination of Start Screen and All Apps. I know you personally don't like that particular arrangement.

No, they instead went to a full screen start menu instead of a menu that would pop up over the top of whatever else I was already working on. However, unlike old versions, they provided no outlet to use more or a classic style menu. You are right, I don't like the full screen start menu. Never have. It takes focus completely away from my classic desktop and that is annoying.

There's one thing about a "hunt". Once one finds something once, one usually remembers where the item is. So, again, they are not "hell" bent. They placed items in different places. They're intentions are not to piddle people off as you imply just because it's different.

My comment about being "hell-bent" was in response to Mystere who was stating that MS didn't want us to shut down using a software button. My argument was that if they didn't want us to use the button (just like they don't want us to use the start menu), why not eliminate it entirely. But yet, they didn't do this.

 

[SIW2]

Finally, Mystere gets it.

Microsoft WANTS you to..

Nobody gives a damn what MS wants.

They should be providing what the customer wants.

They could get away with forcing what they wanted previously - and to a certain extent, they still can.

But if they are looking to enter new areas where there are viable alternatives, they need to adopt a different attitude.

They have a massive base of existing users.

Some of those may be buying tablet/notebook/whatever you call them in future, instead of a regular laptop.

Many more will be buying those things as well as a proper machine.

You would think MS would like to tap into that.

Instead, they have alienated a significant number - precisely by trying to force what they want.

 

[pparks1]

Nobody gives a damn what MS wants.

They should be providing what the customer wants.

Similar to the approach Apple takes, they don't care what the customer wants, they don't even ask what the customer wants. They maintain that the customer doesn't KNOW what they want yet...so they design it their way.

I think MS has tried the same thing. We as the users aren't used to this approach from MS.

 

[znod]

Finally, Mystere gets it.

Microsoft WANTS you to..

Nobody gives a damn what MS wants.

They should be providing what the customer wants.

Here's the problem with some of what you say. MS shareholders/potential shareholders care about what MS wants (i.e., is doing). And, in turn, MS has to care about what its shareholders/potential shareholders want to a very large degree. The shareholders/potential shareholders care about having expected rewards consistent with risks taken. As long as MS satisfies the shareholders/potential shareholders in this regard, then it can blow off all sorts of potential future customers. The company will change its mind on what it wants/is doing only if the shareholders/potential shareholders sense that what MS is dong does not somehow satisfy their collective expected reward/risk preferences and signal such in the securities markets and MS managers get the message that they are on the "wrong" expected reward/risk path as viewed by the shareholders/potential shareholders.

 

[Mystere]

Nobody gives a damn what MS wants.

They should be providing what the customer wants.

You have a very warped idea of how the market works. Companies make products, and people buy products that they like. They do not buy products they don't like. Therefore, products that people like thrive.

I don't know a single company on the planet that bases their decisions solely on what the customer has told them they want. Otherwise, everything would be free and filled with porn. Since, those are things users want.

Instead, a company designs a product, and introduces it to the market. They make changes they THINK the user will like. It doesn't always work that way, but often times the user finds that they like something they never knew they wanted. Now they do.

I can name tons of products that, if you describe them to people, they just don't get why anyone would want that. TiVo, for instance. People say, I am just fine watching normal TV. Then, if they use one for a while, they say "How did I live my life without this!"

If Microsoft only made changes to Windows that everyone wanted, it would never change, because no two people want the same things, and because most people have no imagination.

In the case of the power button, Microsoft believes most users will want the simplicity of a single place to turn it on and off, just like every single other device they own.

 

[Max Peck]

My first disaster was trying to figure out how to close the dang computer down! Talk about hiding things! Who woulda thunk the power button would be under Settings! Good grief! I finally found that one, and managed to figure out how to get to the desktop. Finally! By that time, I was "off and running".

The Windows 8 fans though will preach how you should just hit the "physical power button" on the PC and nobody used the actual shut down button in previous versions of Windows. I agree to disagree and I always shut down using the shutdown button within Windows itself. Maybe it was just you and I having this problem.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the guy that my dad was helping when they both called me because they couldn't figure out how to shut down Windows 8 either. So, I guess it's just 4 of us who used the old button within Windows.

Oh yeah, that's right - the POWER button! Heh ... make that 5. I always did shut down from the Orb myself.

It's not really hard to shut down Win8, just one of those pieces of cheese that they moved so you had to hunt for it. ALT-F4 still worked from the desktop, though.

-Max

 

[SIW2]

You have a very warped idea of how the market works.

I know exactly how it works.

It may surprise you to know not everyone on this forum is in IT.

Some people here are marketing Pros. They have taken part in campaigns for some of the biggest brands in the world - those campaigns are currently running.

people buy products that they like. They do not buy products they don't like

You seem to be assuming perfect competition.

A market structure in which the following five criteria are met:

1. All firms sell an identical product.
2. All firms are price takers.
3. All firms have a relatively small market share.
4. Buyers know the nature of the product being sold and the prices
charged by each firm.
5. The industry is characterized by freedom of entry and exit.

Sometimes referred to as "pure competition".

( from investopedia )

The theoretical free-market situation in which the following conditions are met: (1) buyers and sellers are too numerous and too small to have any degree of individual control over prices, (2) all buyers and sellers seek to maximize their profit (income), (3) buyers and seller can freely enter or leave the market, (4) all buyers and sellers have access to information regarding availability, prices, and quality of goods being traded, and (5) all goods of a particular nature are homogeneous, hence substitutable for one another. Also called perfect market or pure competition.

(from business dictionary.com )

That is not the case here. Most people buy a new pc that just happens to come with windows on it. Unless you can afford a Macbook, you end up with windows.

 

[Max Peck]

So why can't you hit the power button with your toe to shut it down? Pressing the power button is Microsoft's intended way to shut down the computer going forward. That's why the software shutdown is no longer prominent.

Even so, there are multiple ways to shut it down with software. WinKey+I -> Shutdown, Ctrl-alt-del-> Shutdown in lower right corner, etc..

I think he said that his toe was unavailable for shutdown because by then he has shoes on.

-Max

 

[Wynona]

So why can't you hit the power button with your toe to shut it down? Pressing the power button is Microsoft's intended way to shut down the computer going forward. That's why the software shutdown is no longer prominent.

Even so, there are multiple ways to shut it down with software. WinKey+I -> Shutdown, Ctrl-alt-del-> Shutdown in lower right corner, etc..

Because I have shoes on by the end of the day. And why should I not work the way I want to? It shouldn't be important to anyone but myself how I choose to shut down Windows anyway.

Enough about this silly subject . . .

 

[znod]

Yep, I'm with you. That's the way we all do it/say it in Texas.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

So why can't you hit the power button with your toe to shut it down? Pressing the power button is Microsoft's intended way to shut down the computer going forward. That's why the software shutdown is no longer prominent.

Even so, there are multiple ways to shut it down with software. WinKey+I -> Shutdown, Ctrl-alt-del-> Shutdown in lower right corner, etc..

I think he said that his toe was unavailable for shutdown because by then he has shoes on.

-Max

 

[Wynona]

I think he said that his toe was unavailable for shutdown because by then he has shoes on.

-Max

Ummm, Max, he's a she.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Mystere]

You have a very warped idea of how the market works.

I know exactly how it works.

I don't think you do, given your response.

You seem to be assuming perfect competition.

No, I'm not. No such market exists, other than perhaps highly commoditized markets like fasteners, and even then there are differences in quality, differences in materials, etc.. There's literally no such thing as two firms having identical products.

Let's take the age old car comparison. General Motors was, until recently, the #1 selling car company in the world. There is lots of competition in the car market, yet nobody would try and claim that any of your 5 items are true, particularly the "freedom to enter and exit", since there are significant barriers to entry. Ford doesn't design the Focus by going to a bunch of users and saying "How should we design the next one"? Oh, i'm sure they may have some focus groups (no pun intended) but they only take these as suggestions. The engineers design the cars to meet various needs, including safety standards, various state regulations, and innovations they think people might want (such as the MS Sync technology). Nobody says "Damn ford for not giving me a start menu on my navigation system! The people have spoken (me) and they should damn well do what I say or else!"

If people like the Focus, they buy it. If they don't, they buy something else. There are people that may not like the layout of the instrument panel, and those people go somewhere else. Ford doesn't say "Wait! let me whip up a new instrument panel just to placate you!".

There are now many different kinds of PC's out there. Chromebooks are in the top lists of amazons sales, for instance. As are plenty of non-MS tablets and other computers.

Manufacturers make products, based on their own designs. Only an idiot designs something based entirely on customer request.

 

[SIW2]

LOL.

So you are now a marketing pro ?

When you go to your doctor, do you tell him he doesn't know what he is talking about - it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Mystere]

No, I'm a software engineer. I know how software is designed and built for almost 30 years in the industry covering over 20 different industries. I've been involved in hardware and software design processes, and I know how products are built. (One of those industries was the automotive industry, dealing with the specification and ordering of everything from cars to light duty trucks and tractor/trailors). I have literally been in meetings with the #2 guy at GM. So I have some knowledge of which I speak.

You may have marketing experience, but that does not translate to product design experience.

 

[Max Peck]

I think he said that his toe was unavailable for shutdown because by then he has shoes on.

-Max

Ummm, Max, he's a she.

[/QUOTE]

Oops ... didn't notice. Oh well ...

-Max

 

[Wynona]

And there you go.

My PC is on the floor on the side of my desk, I walk over and bend down and push the button to turn it on. I prefer to not have to repeat the procedure to shut it off. If there was a physical power button on my keyboard (like a MAC), I would use that to turn it on and turn it off, but since there is not, I use the shut off option within Windows.

Whoa! I have a Logitech K350 Wave keyboard with all kinds of buttons on it. Lemme see now . . . I gots a (looks like a) file button, a zoom button, a camera button, (looks like) a tool button (gear), a music button, a Media Center button, a calculator button and . . . wait for it . . . a POWER button! I've never even fooled with the buttons, nor have I bothered with the driver for the keyboard, figuring Windows Update will take care of it. Especially since I use my computer for business apps rather than games, music and such and really haven't had any use for bells and whistles.

Now I have to see what happens when I push that little power button. I'll post this message before I do, and if I disappear forever, ya'll know what happened.

Although I've

 

[pparks1]

Well, as luck would have it, I have a mechanical keyboard that doesn't include bells and whistles..so I don't have a power key on my keyboard. If I did have one, I would use it.