Will 'normal' Windows users want a Start button for Windows 8?

SweetLabs joins a handful of other companies offering to bring the more familiar Start menu/Button back to Windows 8.

Readers of this blog -- other than my mom (hi, mom!) -- are not normal, regular users. Sorry, you/we are not.

"Normal" users are people who get their work (and play) done on Windows, but who are not techies or those who write about them. They are the people who are not likely to have done any real testing of Windows 8 so far. And they are the people who are either going to love or hate Windows 8 when they get to use it in retail stores for the first time next week.

They are the "regular" people like Lockergnome's Chris Pirillo's dad -- a video of whom attempting to use a test build of Windows 8 went viral. Whether you consider Pirillo's video a page-view stunt or not (I am in the "not" camp), you might want to check out another video of his created in conjunction with startup SweetLabs.

This time, Pirillo captured the reactions of various folks in the University District area of Seattle last month who got to try Windows 8 for their first time. These users were checking it out on laptops with keyboards. Their reactions run from interest, to puzzlement, to nervous laughter (in the case of one woman who identified herself as an admin who is quite conversant with Windows).

Check it out:

Read more at source:
Will 'normal' Windows users want a Start button for Windows 8? | ZDNet

 

[TerryE]

I am going to borrow a line from one of my favorite TV characters, Monk ...

"Here's the thing ..."

I use my Start orb/button/menu in Windows 7 ALL THE TIME. I run so many different apps, some of them about once in a blue moon, that I don't have them all on the left side of my Start menu. If I installed it, I will use it at some point, but not necessarily every day or even every week. Unlike some users, I do NOT clutter my desktop with shortcuts. Therefore if it's a rarely-used application (or just not one of my most often-used ones) I have to go to the All Programs menu or a desktop shortcut.

I fire up Word, Excel, Notepad, etc., from the Start menu, and I like the jump lists that pop out the recent stuff I've worked on. 9 times out of 10 that's what I want to go back and edit again.

So what are my options working in Windows 8, out-of-the-box, without some third-party add-on?

* I could pop back to the Start screen or All Apps to launch an app when I need to. Then I hope it doesn't fire up in full-screen mode and cover up everything I'm working on.

* I could go into the desktop, search for the app, and fire it up.

* I could launch it from Start -> Run

* I could put a shortcut on the desktop

* Find the program in Explorer and launch it that way

The point is that I want to run pretty much anything I have without the need to go back to the Start screen.

Now don't go off and tell me I need to learn the "new way" or that I'm just stuck in a rut. I know how I use Windows and I am quite happy using it in this way.

I'm fine with people who like the new OS. Maybe it's wonderful for you and the way you use it. I should not have to install a third-party application to make it work well for me. I personally find it awkward to navigate the OS to do something I might have to do just once in a while.

I'll be interested to see the reaction of ordinary, everyday non-technical users (I'm not one of them) after the OS has been out there for a while. Sure, given enough time and work with Winodws 8 I know I could learn the "new way" but my company isn't going to see Windows 8 for a while: so I work differently at the office than I do at home. Windows Surface tablets for all our corporate users? Not in the foreseeable (5+ years) future, for sure. Windows 8 on the desktop? Heck, if everyone in our company is on Windows 7 a year from now we'll be in good shape.

It's interesting that some people automatically assume that a video showing a viewpoint other than their own is biased. How did YOU react the first time you saw the new OS? Was it readily intuitive to you? Were you instantly able to do what you wanted to do? (I doubt it.) So then why are you surprised when someone who's never seen Win8 reacts in confusion? The accusations of "bias" are on both sides of the fence, folks: take a step back and see if there's really something to be learned from what you see and read - even if you don't agree!

Meanwhile, I'll keep chugging along happily in my Windows 7 world. As long as I can do what I need to do with my "senile, archaic" Windows 7, I'll keep using it. Whether I'm of the minority opinion a few weeks or months from now doesn't matter. Maybe I enjoy being an old fuddy-duddy!

 

[strollin]

I do the same thing in Win 8 that I did in Win 2000, XP, Vista and 7. I use desktop shortcuts but then use the option to hide the desktop icons. I then create a desktop toolbar which allows me to pop up a menu of all the shortcuts I have on my desktop. My desktop stays uncluttered and I have no need for a Start menu. Added bonus is that when I'm working, I NEVER need to minimize windows or anything else to access the desktop since I can access everything on the desktop from the desktop toolbar.

 

[Mustang]

I'm not sure if I'm a normal or abnormal Windows user? Please define normal. However, I do want the same setup on desktop as W7.

Apropos to this, Ex7forW8 found here in the thread 'Windows 7 Original StartButton and metro Killer' absolutely rocks!

It's not only free but includes several features missing from Classic Shell and Stardock.

From within 'All Programs' items can be:

• Pinned to Start Menu jump list
• Renamed
• Dragged up from sub-menu to main menu
• Sent to desktop as shortcut

It also has a simple toggle switch between Explorer 7 & 8 with Metro availability.

So far it's run seamless, and if it continues to be reliable I will trial W8 upgrade as possible main machine.

Only restriction is you need a Win7 installation disc to install it as it uses files from W7.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Normal is what an individual usually does or usually acts. We take notice when an individual acts differently to their normal way. I new something was up when one of my children acted out of their norm.

Here's the thing ........ Windows 8 is what it is. That's the reality of it all. It is abnormal to previous OSs. A huge change to target a market. I believe it is not targeting enterprise, but rather the general public. Like you say, Terry, enterprise will be happy to upgrade to 7. I think MS had this planned all along. They new they had to get 7 near perfect, which I believe they accomplished. I'm quite sure they had 8 release date pinned on their calendar while producing 7. 7 will continue to be income for them. I think 9 will be geared for enterprise.

It starts with marketing. Anyone could see that Apple was winning the game. Throw some Google with Android and other touch-based OSs in. The market is demanding touch. No if, ands, or buts about it. One has to change their game plan to win.

Therefore, it's the people's demand for touch. It's not MS's, iFruit's, Google's, OEM's, or any others' choice. If anyone ever bought a touch device, they voted for touch.

When I first booted up 8, I intuitively knew to press enter after staring at the splash screen for about 10 seconds. My exact thoughts were "This is different" and then "What the hell is this?!". After pushing enter I stared at the Start Screen for awhile with these same two questions, but added ones of "Where's the desktop?!". "Where's the start orb and menu?!" "How do I shut this thing down?!" Lol! It remains quite amusing to me to this day!

I scrolled back and forth a few times wondering what to do next. "I need help" I thought, so I pushed the IE tile. It opened to the Bing page, which has been my home page for quite some time. That was "normal" for me. I typed "shut down windows 8". It led me to a whole lot of help. This forum was and continues to be a huge help. The rest is history. I was cruising through 8 within a few hours and I don't consider myself all that savvy! Within a few days I was pretty much familiar with most of it.

I guess it's all in fun, but just don't get the hoopla of cold-showing 8 to anyone without some simple instructions. I think it's plain asinine. An insult to human intelligence IMO.

If not for the hierarchical problem of organization of the Start Screen it would be far better than the Start Menu. I admit that is a big problem that MS needs to address. It's not a huge problem for me, but I realize it is for some.

Shortcut keys are pretty much the same, especially the Windows key. Push it once the Start Screen appears. Push it again it's back to the window screen I was at. Same as the Start Menu. It's no different in that respect. When I opened the Start Menu, I wasn't looking at the rest of the desktop, I was concentrating on the menu. I find it very much more informational while looking for something on the Start Screen in that live tiles are feeding me information while there. Who's emailing me, temperatures in multiple places, news headlines, etc. I don't have to open a program to get information. It's all at a glance. The Start Menu didn't do that for me.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I absolutely love the look of the "Modern" Start Screen. It looks a whole lot better than the Start Menu IMO. I don't need no stinking Start Menu. That's my vote.

 

[pparks1]

When I opened the Start Menu, I wasn't looking at the rest of the desktop, I was concentrating on the menu. I find it very much more informational while looking for something on the Start Screen in that live tiles are feeding me information while there. Who's emailing me, temperatures in multiple places, news headlines, etc. I don't have to open a program to get information. It's all at a glance. The Start Menu didn't do that for me.

And on the flip side, I find it distracting that when I need a program, which isn't pinned to my desktop, that when I flip over to the Start Screen...that I lose the ability to see my previous windows, my taskbars, my open applications, my Outlook email window.

So, you see it positively that you can see all of your other information on the Start live tiles, and I see it negatively that I am losing all of that other information when I leave my desktop.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I absolutely love the look of the "Modern" Start Screen. It looks a whole lot better than the Start Menu IMO. I don't need no stinking Start Menu. That's my vote.

So true. We all have different eyes. I don't like the look, or function of the new "Modern Start Screen" at all. I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat if I only could. And then i would want to get rid of that craptacular 2D, grey only, squared corner interface that I get on the desktop now. But now I am just nitpicking.

 

[Dogmatix]

I always use Alt-F4 to close Windows (XP), and that works on Win8, so I did not realise that there is a problem there.

As for the Metro interface always opening programs in full-screen - yes, that is annoying. After all, it's called 'Windows', yet it now gives preference to the non-windowed full screen mode. Contradiction here!

 

[Dogmatix]

Apropos to this, Ex7forW8 found here in the thread 'Windows 7 Original StartButton and metro Killer' absolutely rocks!

Me, I'd prefer something along the lines of XPforW8..... I still prefer the way my XP looks to my kids' Win7....

By the way, wherever does that phrase 'rocks' come from? One sees it all over the place nowadays...

 

[mdmd]

and I see it negatively that I am losing all of that other information when I leave my desktop.

Do you not like hotspots or edge thumbnails? Do you use Windows 8? Do you use it as a standalone or virtual? Thumbnails are an image of the desktop. Even if in metro, you can see your desktop in a thumbnail or snap edge...and one can be there in a split second. If you use 8 in a virtual box, it may not work as well as a standalone install. Normal is what? I would say, yes, they would look for it (the start menu) obviously. But can - some - folks live without it? Yes. New young people, that have never used a computer before, may have never even seen a start menu and know nothing about it. They can get an orby system, if they want it. The Windows 7 start menu for me was a huge turn off, ... never liked the double pane block.

Tired of nested menus...
IMO, Hierarchies are a huge waste of time and are irrelevant
to an effective and efficient use of an Operating System.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
C'mon Coke Robot -- you are so inconsistent in your views that you've probably been using some of the stuff allied to your username.

This is NOTHING to do with Dinosaur or outdated technology -- if you have applications with a load of sub menus etc the whole start menu with NO HIERARCHIAL display makes the whole system essentially totally unfit for purpose.

We don't need to left scroll for 3.5 KM or maybe 497 tiles to find the application we want to run.

If you like the "KOOL SKULE Kiddie interface " fine for you -- but in an enterprise we don't work like this in any shape size or form. We have often several monitors and need Windowed applications -- true you can get to the application via the start menu but not with an inordinate amount of scrolling -- and even if you say just pin your app to desktop / taskbar shows you haven't understood in any way whatsoever about what the lack of a hierarchial menu structure means.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[pparks1]

Do you not like hotspots or edge thumbnails? Do you use Windows 8? Do you use it as a standalone or virtual? Thumbnails are an image of the desktop. Even if in metro, you can see your desktop in a thumbnail or snap edge...and one can be there in a split second.

Let's go one by one

Hotspots, you are talking about the edge corners right. They can be ok, especially on a single monitor display. They are more aggravating in a multiple monitor setup because it's harder to hit the corner without sliding to the next monitor

Edge thumbails: I assume you mean when you to to the upper left, and then slide down slightly and see blocks for each of your open Metro apps as well as one for the destkop.


Yes I do run Windows 8

• One instance on a VM under VMWare Workstation
• One copy of Windows 7 Pro 32bit running on a small form factor dell Desktop with 2GB of RAM and single screen
• One copy of Windows 7 Enterprsie 64bit running on an XPS13 laptop with a single screen (at the moment)

Here is a practical example of why I don't like going to the full screen start display. I'm on my desktop, and I am running the Microsoft Lync messaging client. I've got outlook open for my corporate email. And I'm running a FileZilla transfer and I have to let somebody know when the file transfer complaints.

So, I hit the windows key and get the full screen Start Screen. I then decide to click on Mail live tile, which launches a full screen mail app. Meanwhile, on my desktop, a Lync pop-up has come up from a coworker who needs something from me. Unfortunately, when I am on the full screen start page, or running any of these Metro apps, nothing pops up to tell me that I have a lync message waiting. And since it's a work PC, I don't have speakers, so I didn't hear the lync messenger ding. So, I'm just fooling around inside of a metro app, when I have a desktop app awaiting my attention.

Had I still had a start button and start menu, I would have seen the link pop up when it arrived as most of my desktop would still have been in view.

If I have the desktop snapped to the left, I do see the blocks that represent my running apps. but since i have more then 3 things open at once, the newest stuff shows up at the bottom and thus I have to scroll down in the left frame to see my lync popup.

 

[mdmd]

Let's go one by one...
So, I'm just fooling around inside of a metro app, when I have a desktop app awaiting my attention.

Yikes. Thanks. This is part of what I do not understand. Why not stay completely on the desktop? If you are doing only work, why not pin what you need from all apps and then stay at work on the desktop? Are there metro apps you must use? Why use the start screen at all? Isn't that what taskbar toolbars are for? Why not use a messaging service that is Win32 based? Since you are an administrator, you have special needs and special skills. Are you running multi monitor version of 8 in a virtual machine? I have never done that so I cannot comment. Extending monitors can be a bit touchy for use along the edges and confusing. That feature probably needs a lot of work. Leaving the desktop and running metro apps can be a distraction. For work, why not eliminate all metro apps and uninstall or block the store app. Make your machine a purely functional enterprise workstation. There is really no need for the SS at all unless you want to use it. All apps is the new start menu IMO. Perhaps, the metro area may not be suitable for everyone in the enterprise. We have already discussed this topic in another thread. I grow fatigued with the discussion. As new contributors enter, the same issues are rehashed. We have been down this road before. Thanks. I still believe new users, perhaps young people, who have never used a computer before, - might have never seen a start menu -, will get very well acquainted with 8 quickly. Most people are not system administrators. Have a great night!

http://www.eightforums.com/general-discussion/9190-suitable-enterprise.html

 

[Kat]

If you can't do in 8 exactly what you did in Vista or 7, maybe you shouldn't HAVE a computer....

Yes, it's different.

But un-useable?

No way!

I loathed it at first, the DP was absolute crap.

But I put a bit of time into learning it and tweaking it to my preferences.

Now, I love it. The RTM is Rock-solid.

Windows 7 with a turbo, basically.

And you CAN ignore Metro if you use Classic Start or similar.

I'm keeping 7 (Ultimate 32-bit) on the desktop, but Win 8 RTM is here to stay on the Super-Lappy.

And the old lappy just LOVES the 32-bit Win 8 CP.....refuses to run the RP, but will run the 64-bit RTM with ease...go figure.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Change Font and Icons

If you can't do in 8 exactly what you did in Vista or 7, maybe you shouldn't HAVE a computer....

• Go to "Personalize".
• Change the following:
  • Font type
  • Icon Size
  • Icon Spacing

 

[Kat]

I was referring to use, not customisation.

I'll agree with you on that, tho.

 

[Mustang]

By the way, wherever does that phrase 'rocks' come from? One sees it all over the place nowadays...

To the best of my knowledge it derives from rock & roll music, as in a room full of people all 'rockin & rollin' ... so the whole room 'rocks'.

Translated that means they're all 'really livin it up' or 'having a ball' ... in old fashioned language, it's really great! Modern lingo ... 'cool man'.

And getting back on topic, for some people the Metro start menu 'rocks', for others it 'reeks'! And same applies to alpha-numeric cascaded start menu.

I personally prefer the W7 Orb start menu. But I did hear a rumour that Metro is very popular with bong users ... it was said that after the 3rd joint Metro is 'really trippin man!' lol!

 

[lehnerus2000]

I was referring to use, not customisation.

I'll agree with you on that, tho.

Fair enough.

 

[SIW2]

MS are hoping the customers are not too smart, so they won't see what they are letting themselves in for.

MS are trying dictate the way we interact with our machines - they are removing choices, locking down, treating us all like sheep to be led where they want us to go.

It will be tragic if this thing gets off the ground.

It is not about if one likes the metro interface or can do without a start menu - it is much bigger and deeper than that.

So many are distracted by the superficialities.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
It's so easy for people to say just pin the applications you want to the task bar or send to desktop in the desktop view (as in previous versions of windows) but what some of these people fail to understsnd that for some people this isn't the solution either -- especially if you have some complex applications with a lot of HIERARCHIAL / SUB menus and SUB SUB menus etc. - If you were to try and put all these on the taskbar you are "merely re-creating" the tiles that you'd see on the start screen and you aren't any better off.

It's the lack of a HIERARCHIAL structure that is the problem.

For instance I don't mind the Tiles per se but say I install ADOBE CS -- now instead of installing 10 zillion tiles for this app why can't it work as ONE TILE which if I clicked on the tile would EXPAND into a VERTICAL set of tiles so I could then select my desired sub application.

Much more useable and I'm sure the programmers on this forum could probably program something like that in about 5 minutes flat.

Had some sort of decent structure been made available rather than just trying to emulate a phone / tablet screen W8 would probably not have got ANY negative publicity at all.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Brink]

If you can't do in 8 exactly what you did in Vista or 7, maybe you shouldn't HAVE a computer....

• Go to "Personalize".
• Change the following:
  • Font type
  • Icon Size
  • Icon Spacing

Well, it's not quite the same, but hopefully this will help some with that for now.

• http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...tings-change-text-size-items-windows-8-a.html
• http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...-your-screen-bigger-turn-off-windows-8-a.html
• http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...-horizontal-vertical-spacing-windows-8-a.html

 

[mdmd]

why can't it work as ONE TILE which if I clicked on the tile would EXPAND into a VERTICAL set of tiles so I could then select my desired sub application.

all apps area