Tough Times for Win 8 and MS

On top of fines and taxes, Microsoft got bad news on Windows RT, Windows 8, and Office 2013

...Demand for Windows 8 is also failing to meet expectations...

Microsoft...is looking like "a tired technology corporation scrambling to protect its cash cows on the legacy PC desktop and failing to gain traction in the new markets of note...

Microsoft vs. the world: The punches keep coming | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld


Let's hope they get it right with Blue and it turns around for them.

 

[BillWindows]

I kind of have to agree too with that. I honestly thought touch typing on the Surface would be sucky but better than the ipad or android, but I found it to be lots better than either. It was just fine. I was like Data from Star Trek.

I like to deal in facts, when an Apple Fanboy says something is a killer accessory, it's a killer accessory. Others have said much the same.

I kind of wonder if the touch covers can be done without and just use the touchscreen keyboard....

From Scott Stein again.

.Working with the included touch pad gets the job done, but you can just as easily use the Surface's touch screen --

 

[pparks1]

It is not as if I cannot type on the screen. And I can go back and correct mistakes and get reasonable speeds. I'm much faster with this then my Samsung phone. But I find that trying to correct mistakes takes a whole lot longer on this device than on a keyboard. I

i'm going to jump out to a wpm score site and see how I do with this. I will post back results in a few.

 

[pparks1]

Ok, I went to the following URL and ran through this typing test.
TypingTest.com - Free Typing Test & Keyboarding Games Online

I choose the African Zebra piece.

Utilizing the onscreen keyboard of the surface, I managed a grand total of 12 wpm. And my accuracy was 44%. Now, this got a bit skewed because I had to hit a symbol submenu to pull up the - (dash). In addition, on two different occasions, I bumped the Windows button and ended up back on the start screen and launched a couple of metro apps. I had to swipe back on the screen and then bring the onboard keyboard back up to finish the test.

Then, I relaunched the test, using the type cover keyboard on the Surface pro. On this, I managed 72wpm with 94% accuracy.

I think this clearly jives with the experience that I feel when I type on the onscreen keyboard. Sure, I can do it. But boy it's far less fast than I am with this keyboard.

 

[pparks1]

Ok, I have another fun test that I am going to try. I'm going to take this paragraph, and I'm going to hammer it out (correcting all mistakes and getting it perfect) and time how long it takes between the onscreen keyboard and the type cover keyboard.

Utilizing the onscreen keyboard of the surface, I managed a grand total of 12 wpm. And my accuracy was 44%. Now, this got a bit skewed because I had to hit a symbol submenu to pull up the - (dash). In addition, on two different occasions, I bumped the Windows button and ended up back on the start screen and launched a couple of metro apps. I had to swipe back on the screen and then bring the onboard keyboard back up to finish the test.

Utilizing the onscreen keyboard of the surface, I managed a grand total of 12 wpm. And my accuracy was 44%. Now, this got a bit skewed because I had to hit a symbol submenu to pull up the - (dash). In addition, on two different occasions, I bumped the Windows button and ended up back on the start screen and launched a couple of metro apps. I had to swipe back on the screen and then bring the onboard keyboard back up to finish the test.

That took me 3:10 using the onscreen keyboard to duplicate. That was pressing shift for uppercase, and not letting word correction fill in anything for me. Also, had to grab those submenus for the dash. Did manage to NOT pull up the Windows Start Screen though this time through.

Utilizing the onscreen keyboard of the surface, I managed a grand total of 12wpm. And my accuracy was 44%. Now, this got a bit skewed because I had to it a symbol submenu to pull up the - (dash). In addition, on two different occasions, I bumped the Windows button and ended up back on the start screen and launched a couple of metro apps. I had to swipe back on the screen and then bring the onboard keyboard back up to finish the test.

That took me 57 seconds using the Type Cover keyboard.


So, while hammering away on text using the tablet itself is doable, it's not a super fast endeavor me for at all. I'm at least 3x faster with a real keyboard. And when you type as much as I do, this adds up to a ton of lost time.

 

[chrisa]

Gotta agree with you here CR... i use touchscreen keyboard when i have to, most of the time its the regular type keyboard(i like the feeling of keys as opposed to tapping a surface). That said, the touchscreen keyboard is still quite serviceable, just not as fast in comparison.

And with intellisense on VS.. adding code is no issue at all. I tend to find the only thing holding me back is the keys are a bit more compressed, so my left hand is where it is normally.. and the right usually goes a bit more freeform.

 

[Coke Robot]

I guess it must just be me and how I can type pretty quickly with a touchscreen keyboard. It could be that I'm actively trying to type on my Windows Phone as quickly and accurately as possible. I'm getting the quick part, accurate is ok most of the time, Windows Phone's autocorrect is excellent. I'm also trying to tap type without ACTUALLY looking at the keyboard, so I should be able to type like I normally do with a normal PC keyboard, looking at the typed content (or whatever peaks my interest visually) and not the keyboard.

 

[BillWindows]

Don't judge the surface pro until you have spent a whole weekend trying to use it exclusively. 

This was typed on the Surface Pro.

th
yes it was. Not only that, I sm using the. Keyboard with all ten fingers. I'm not correctingna mistakes, I've closed the browser three times by hitting the windows key , brought up the weather app, the finance app accidentally . its probably tkane me about two minutes thus far t omake this fespons. Pretty swedte

So you've gone from mumbo jumbo to 72wpm and 94% accuracy in a matter of no time at all. So that would make the Surface Pro a magic machine.

You've now given it a AAA rating.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
The Markets don't seem to agree with the sentiment of the article -- in any case in order to develop something for the FUTURE you have to lay the groundwork somewhere and this does cost money.

I'd rather trust the Markets than from some possibly "Linux Centric" magazine -- not that there's any complaint with Linux it's just that it isn't nor ever likely to be a big player for your typical Home users-- and for those corporations who have switched to Linux and using Open Office -- well it might be OK for simple documents but I doubt if any SERIOUS POWER user of EXCEL say would agree that Open Office is a satisfactory replacement.

People particularly in the US work on incredibly Short Term ideas --if it hasn't worked by tomorrow --forget it. Ms although late to the party realizes the future is AWAY from the traditional desktop and even though late and maybe the first throw of the dice wasn't to a lot of people's liking the future IS in mobile / portable devices and the desktop will represent a DIMINISHING value in Ms's portfolio.

I know some say there's stuff that you'll always need a desktop for -- true -- but this isn't in the future where Ms expects most of its revenue to come from and by recognizing this early enough and while they are still rich enough allows them to try out stuff and make some mistakes along the way.

I'd still rather be in Ms's shoes than Apple's -- especially now that even the once mighty iTunes is being hampered as subscription based music services such as Spotify eat into iTunes, music torrents still abound in spite of all attempts to close these sites down, and people such as Netflix, Hula, SKY and even the staid old B.T in the UK start rolling out "On Demand" TV / Films etc which will also kill APPLE TV stone dead -- new TV's are often Smart TV's which can connect to the Internet or a LAN directly so who needs an Apple TV type of box.

The I.T magazines should stick to doing what they do best -- stick to essentially I.T stuff -- for instance in the same magazine there's a great little article of a lot more relevance to anybody doing system administration whether at home or work.

13 killer open source admin tools - InfoWorld

I'd leave business to the Markets and let Ms get on with it.

Yesterday 08 Mar at market close (and Fridays are often "Carnage on Wall St Days")

AAPL close 430.58 USD 52 wk range 419.00 - 705.07
MSFT close 28.00 USD 52 wk range 26.26 - 32.95 .

Apple has a lot to do in order to convince the market. Ms seems to have the confidence of the market at the moment to recover anything like its previous position.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[chrisa]

Hi there
The Markets don't seem to agree with the sentiment of the article -- in any case in order to develop something for the FUTURE you have to lay the groundwork somewhere and this does cost money.

I'd rather trust the Markets than from some possibly "Linux Centric" magazine -- not that there's any complaint with Linux it's just that it isn't nor ever likely to be a big player for your typical Home users-- and for those corporations who have switched to Linux and using Open Office -- well it might be OK for simple documents but I doubt if any SERIOUS POWER user of EXCEL say would agree that Open Office is a satisfactory replacement.

People particularly in the US work on incredibly Short Term ideas --if it hasn't worked by tomorrow --forget it. Ms although late to the party realizes the future is AWAY from the traditional desktop and even though late and maybe the first throw of the dice wasn't to a lot of people's liking the future IS in mobile / portable devices and the desktop will represent a DIMINISHING value in Ms's portfolio.

I know some say there's stuff that you'll always need a desktop for -- true -- but this isn't in the future where Ms expects most of its revenue to come from and by recognizing this early enough and while they are still rich enough allows them to try out stuff and make some mistakes along the way.

I'd still rather be in Ms's shoes than Apple's -- especially now that even the once mighty iTunes is being hampered as subscription based music services such as Spotify eat into iTunes, music torrents still abound in spite of all attempts to close these sites down, and people such as Netflix, Hula, SKY and even the staid old B.T in the UK start rolling out "On Demand" TV / Films etc which will also kill APPLE TV stone dead -- new TV's are often Smart TV's which can connect to the Internet or a LAN directly so who needs an Apple TV type of box.

I'd have to agree. Short term its going to be the hurt locker for Microsoft. But I really do believe if they can show that convertibles can take over the 10" form factor, that they'll start to get their groove back. And one month of release isn't going to show much. It'll probably take at least 3-6 months to really get hard data. But short term, Apple has all the inertia. They also need to take this time to clean house as it pertains to anything holding up developer and customer adoption as part of Blue. They also need to re-factor RT 2.0 down to a 7" model for a release at the end of the year if they want any hope of competing in the pure tablet arena.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
However you cut it most people can type considerably faster using a classic keyboard than any sort of touch. Even if they are slow "One fingered" typists.

When it comes to writing a keyboard is still much much faster -- in any case I'll almost bet that some youngsters probably haven't done any actual handwriting for MONTHS. Certainly once they leave school.

For decent and lengthy data input you can't beat a keyboard. An on screen one is only of limited use, --even when replying to Forums using a smart phone I use a blue tooth keyboard.

To replace a desktop you will need a decent keyboard with your tablet for working for any length of time --and probably either a mouse or a decent touch enabled pen -- although for highlighting large chunks of text for cut and copy / replace a mouse still is the most convenient and easiest way to do it.

A pen is really great for things like photoshop though. Although Photoshop on the current crop of tablets ?? A surface pro might work though.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[pparks1]

This was typed on the Surface Pro.

th
yes it was. Not only that, I sm using the. Keyboard with all ten fingers. I'm not correctingna mistakes, I've closed the browser three times by hitting the windows key , brought up the weather app, the finance app accidentally . its probably tkane me about two minutes thus far t omake this fespons. Pretty swedte

So you've gone from mumbo jumbo to 72wpm and 94% accuracy in a matter of no time at all. So that would make the Surface Pro a magic machine.

You've now given it a AAA rating.

Um, are you paying attention? Earlier I was using the on-screen keyboard on the surface pro itself. That is what resulted in the mumbo jumbo. The 72wpm result is from attaching the type cover physical keyboard and typing with that. I am simply demonstrating why touch and I are not best buds.

 

[SIW2]

Um, are you paying attention?

LOL. It is Bill - you will get used to it.

 

[labeeman]

Its is not looking good for Windows 8 on even surface.

Samsung exec: Surface isn't selling; Windows 8 no improvement | Technically Incorrect - CNET News

 

[SIW2]

Yes, I have seen that. The author is funny.

Many 8 machines are having big cuts £349 down to £249, that kind of thing.

Can't tell yet if it is helping much.

 

[BillWindows]

Don't judge the surface pro until you have spent a whole weekend trying to use it exclusively.

This was typed on the Surface Pro.

th
yes it was. Not only that, I sm using the. Keyboard with all ten fingers. I'm not correctingna mistakes, I've closed the browser three times by hitting the windows key , brought up the weather app, the finance app accidentally . its probably tkane me about two minutes thus far t omake this fespons. Pretty swedte

I'm not real good on English, but I think I know the basics.

This is my interpretation.

You were trying to deride the Surface Pro by pointing out that it was next to useless when typing, hence the rubbish above.

Unfortunately it backfired on you by admitting that you can type 72wpm at 94% accuracy.

Please tell me where I've gone wrong.

Anyway this has nothing to do with the Surface Pro, there are women that can type twice as fast as you with their thumbs on a smartphone.

 

[BillWindows]

Don't judge the surface pro until you have spent a whole weekend trying to use it exclusively. 

"Go ahead tell us all about it, try not to be too positive."

I might not know English but I know people, that's why I made the above sarcastic comment, I knew what you would do..

And hey, who cares, Ray8 would have been a lot harsher in his criticism.

I'll take it off your hands if you don't like it.

 

[chrisa]

Its is not looking good for Windows 8 on even surface.

Samsung exec: Surface isn't selling; Windows 8 no improvement | Technically Incorrect - CNET News

Notice that he isn't mentioning which Surface. Everybody knows the RT isn't selling and why(wrong form factor).

And the cheap versions of the Surface Pro with the name SAMSUNG on it look exactly that.. cheap. Low resolution, the connecting of the keyboard to the tablet look like more of a gimmick than anything else.. like some mechanical engineer's idea of a first draft. You may start to see the OEM's get point-blank frozen out of certain markets by their own laziness of design.

Personally, when it came time.. i didn't even have to think twice about the Samsung and Lenovo selections, I just bought the one from Microsoft(and waited a week for it to ship), that is very well-designed, but may cost more.

 

[labeeman]

Windows 8 need to change before consumers will be alright with it.

Four months in, Windows 8 needs help | Microsoft - CNET News

 

[SIW2]

Chrisa
Everybody knows the RT isn't selling and why(wrong form factor).

Are you sure that is why.

And the cheap versions of the Surface Pro with the name SAMSUNG

Did you epect them to try and put one out at $2000, or did you expect them to go head on with MS?
If they are going to bring one out a lower price point - no surprise it isn't the same quality - there is also the little matter of the license fees hampering what they can spend on it.

 

[SIW2]

"It's possible [Microsoft] is making changes to the OS [to allow a boot to desktop mode]...Certainly if you talk to PC vendors, they'd like to see Microsoft do that."


Microsoft may "stick to its guns" and leave everything pretty much as is, O'Donnell added. Pride goes before the fall.

Quite a lot of us have been pointing that out for a long time.

That is number 1.
Number 2 is get these things in at the right price points.

Windows 8 need to change before consumers will be alright with it.

Four months in, Windows 8 needs help | Microsoft - CNET News