Some food for though about the Windows 8 tablets.

[skallal]

You cannot game with a touch screen, you cannot use photoshop or illustrator or any cad program, blender or anything that requires any sort of precision greater than "gross" with a touchscreen. (Stylus yes, touch no)

Touch is an /alternate/ input method for "gross" (Figuratively and literally) input only.

The mouse is here to stay for a LONG, LONG, LONG, time.

I suppose it depends on what game. A lot of the games that are stock with Windows 7 are much easier to play on an iPad much less carpal tunnel than a mouse. I'm not a gamer and never over clock. My idea of a fast arcade game is Tetris. I'm sure there are games that would never fly with touch.

There is a new generation of capacitive touch styluses. My favorite is the Adonit Jot series. It can be very precise on an iPad and my Samsung Slate. Of course the MS Surface isn't out or even spec'd yet, but hopefully touch experience be good enough for the Jot.

Touch is the new mouse? Actually the mouse is the new touch device. See http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-mice-keyboards-143871. Remember, the touch screen is not the only touch device. In fact Apple now has a touch pad for the Mac with iPad style gestures enabled. Yes touch can enhance the desktop.

That said, I will agree the keyboard and mouse are here to stay. Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Coke Robot]

Touch is the new mouse, but the keyboard is forever. Why do you suppose there is a new touch keyboard in Windows 8? Keyboard won't be gone until a LONG, LONG, LONG time. Touch is the new input.

You cannot game with a touch screen, you cannot use photoshop or illustrator or any cad program, blender or anything that requires any sort of precision greater than "gross" with a touchscreen. (Stylus yes, touch no)

Touch is an /alternate/ input method for "gross" (Figuratively and literally) input only.

The mouse is here to stay for a LONG, LONG, LONG, time.

Just because one cannot use touch for certain games and touch for certain programs as of now doesn't mean that touch isn't going to be adopted. Sure, immersive PC games can't work too well with touch, but that's now. I'd imagine in the future, there will be different peripherals that make the immersion into the game better than a mouse. Quick tangent, I've always thought that the Kinect for the Xbox is very underused by game developers as the games for it are just very simple motion games. I would love to see a developer take the Kinect to the next level of FPS type games to the point where you don't control the character with a mouse, press a key on the keyboard to pickup a different weapon, it will be YOU that is the character. Basically I'm talking about an epic simulator. But enough, CAD programs can be made for touch I'd think easily. Just adopt better touch input. Instead of using a mouse to draw lines, a digital pen can. One scenario out of many, but in the long run, those programs would need a better touch interface for general use without a pen, kind of like the radial menu in the OneNote app. The same goes for Photoshop. Honestly, I'd figure it would be better to have a program like Photoshop to have more touch input as it would feel more natural to work with a digital image. You have a pen (pencil) and edit an image on a touchscreen (image on a piece of canvas). Touch isn't going to take over the mouse overnight or in a year as some think it might, it will take time. Now, how long did it take for computers to have a mouse as a method of input and navigation alongside a keyboard?

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Touch is the new mouse, but the keyboard is forever. Why do you suppose there is a new touch keyboard in Windows 8? Keyboard won't be gone until a LONG, LONG, LONG time. Touch is the new input.

You cannot game with a touch screen, you cannot use photoshop or illustrator or any cad program, blender or anything that requires any sort of precision greater than "gross" with a touchscreen. (Stylus yes, touch no)

Touch is an /alternate/ input method for "gross" (Figuratively and literally) input only.

The mouse is here to stay for a LONG, LONG, LONG, time.

I think gaming is performed with a game controller for the most part, is it not?

Please excuse my ignorance here. I'm familiar with, but I don't use Photoshop, Illustrator, CAD, or Blender. I consider these artists and/or designing programs. Just wondering if one can zoom in to perform the functions you speak of. Is that possible?

 

[skallal]

Well I finally bothered to read the original article at the beginning of this thread. And I also looked at the video of the IT department at Seton Hall. One part of the video that really caught my attention, was the fact that Windows 8 tablets can actually be used to create input as opposed to the iPad where they only consume.

Yet all the students in the video were using the touch keyboard on the screen. I am as much of a tablet fanatic as anyone on this forum. Yet for the life of me, I've never been able to manage an on-screen keyboard. I have a coworker at work who uses the touch keyboard on the iPad all the time. The other day I joked with him that I've never been able to master the touch keyboard, and he replied that I have the Bluetooth keyboard add on. While I like the Bluetooth keyboard, I feel it takes away from the tablet experience.

Back to the IT department comments: they felt like Microsoft had much better software than Apple had on their iPad. Yeah I didn't see any Metro UI apps on their slates. That's because there are NOT any yet. In fact most of the software that I saw on the video was Windows 7 based. It seems like the IT department is gambling that the true touch base apps are going to be coming down the pike.

The other part noticeably absent in the video, is that the Samsung Slate has terrible battery life compared to the Apple iPad. I doubt the students would be able to make it through the whole day with a single charge, while the iPad would have battery life to spare.

That said, I'm quite aware that most people on this forum are desktop users. I don't even think those who are proponents of touch are true tablet users. Most of this thread has focused on touch versus keyboard and mouse. If the same video was part of a thread on an iPad forum, the comments would be very very different.

I personally love tablets. They fill a niche that I've been looking for for years. Tablets keep this ADD plagued IT professional organized, lol!

 

[FSeal]

Touch is the new mouse, but the keyboard is forever. Why do you suppose there is a new touch keyboard in Windows 8? Keyboard won't be gone until a LONG, LONG, LONG time. Touch is the new input.

You cannot game with a touch screen, you cannot use photoshop or illustrator or any cad program, blender or anything that requires any sort of precision greater than "gross" with a touchscreen. (Stylus yes, touch no)

Touch is an /alternate/ input method for "gross" (Figuratively and literally) input only.

The mouse is here to stay for a LONG, LONG, LONG, time.

I think gaming is performed with a game controller for the most part, is it not?

Please excuse my ignorance here. I'm familiar with, but I don't use Photoshop, Illustrator, CAD, or Blender. I consider these artists and/or designing programs. Just wondering if one can zoom in to perform the functions you speak of. Is that possible?

PC games are generally played with the mouse and a KB or a specialised programmable mini KB. I'd guess that's like 9 out of 10 games I play on the PC are that way. Sometimes you can play with a console controller, but if it's the kind of game that works well with a controller I think it's mostly going to be a console game.

Your final thoughts there sum up the entire problem with everyone claiming that the mouse is dispensable. They don't actually use the many many many many many programs in which a mouse is indispensable (unless it's replaceable by a precision tablet). I do, a LOT of people do. Therefore when one person says the mouse is now unnecessary because of touch well, they are wrong, plain and simple.

(And er, "zooming in" if I read you correctly is always performed by the mouse wheel and it a lot faster and more precise than any pinching touch is or could ever be)