Replacement Start Menus - Consensus of opinion

[smurfercom]

A few hours after I started running StartIsBack I was so impressed I bought a serial key. Am now running Win8 Pro OEM installed from shop bought DVD on my top end machine and it absolutely flies!

I don't mind the bare look of the folders, etc. Quite happy to sacrifice aesthetics for speed any day. All my folders regardless of content are set to list view so only the name is visible ... no details and no navigation pane.

Aside from a few initial hiccups, like Revo Uninstaller had to be run in compatibility mode Vista or it froze when searching for left over registry entries/files ... aside from that there's no going back to Win7. Shuts down in 2 seconds flat ... unbelievable! Excel docs on Win7 took about 15 seconds to open. With W8 they open in 1 - 2 secs max. Big plus for me as I do a lot of work on Excel/Word. Intel do not support my DX58SO2 extreme board for Win8, but it runs fine with generic drivers loaded by W8. The only thing that won't run is the RaLink WiFi wireless adaptor which came with the board and also runs Blue Tooth. Work around was to buy a Blue Tooth and Wireless USB dongle. All good.

I still never use Metro, but not worried it's there. Have used it as alternative start screen just to know what it does, and can navigate it fairly quickly, but still prefer to simply have everything on the desktop ... much more efficient IMHO!

Excerpt from nsane forum:

One fact about Windows 8 is that it does have a Start Menu, but - the code for the same is hidden away.
The reason that StartIsBack is lighter on resources is the fact that it uses that very same hidden code. Hence, StartIsBack is a native Start Menu - in other words, it's the hidden Windows 8 Start Menu.

The reason why Start8 is heavier on resources is that it uses it's own extra code - not the hidden Windows 8 Start Menu code. This extra code can be seen in the form of 2 extra services that are now required to run in the background.
StartisBack vs. Start8 - Software Chat - nsane.forums

 

[Mustang]

Excerpt from nsane forum:

One fact about Windows 8 is that it does have a Start Menu, but - the code for the same is hidden away.
The reason that StartIsBack is lighter on resources is the fact that it uses that very same hidden code. Hence, StartIsBack is a native Start Menu - in other words, it's the hidden Windows 8 Start Menu.

The reason why Start8 is heavier on resources is that it uses it's own extra code - not the hidden Windows 8 Start Menu code. This extra code can be seen in the form of 2 extra services that are now required to run in the background.
StartisBack vs. Start8 - Software Chat - nsane.forums

Hi smurfercom. Wow! Brilliant! Mega thanks for that info! You've made my day ... week ... month. That's exactly what I wanted. Something that runs off native W8 code so updates shouldn't bork it.

Cheers

 

[Ray8]

Didn't Microsoft change something in the code from the release version so that it blocked the use of the native code to recreate the start menu? If they did that once, would they do it again? I sort of look at this like jail breaking of Apple/Android devices, where the hackers are always one step behind, but soon in front again. A fully native start menu is what we really need, but is Steve Balmer listening?

 

[Mustang]

Yeah right on the money Ray! Steve Balmer listening? Hell no!

 

[labeeman]

Didn't Microsoft change something in the code from the release version so that it blocked the use of the native code to recreate the start menu? If they did that once, would they do it again? I sort of look at this like jail breaking of Apple/Android devices, where the hackers are always one step behind, but soon in front again. A fully native start menu is what we really need, but is Steve Balmer listening?

It would not surprise me it M$ took the start menu away in Windows 7 in an update.

 

[azasadny]

Haha! I would agree except that M$ isn't going to be releasing many more updates to Win7, as they want everyone to buy Win8. I know there won't be any more service packs for Win7... just security updates...

 

[Ray8]

That's brilliant, hope Microsoft see it, and the parting words were gold. That guy wasn't a novice computer user either, but it shows that unless you read a fair bit about Windows 8, there's nothing intuitive about it whatsoever.

 

[Mustang]

The thing about W8 in it's native state is that just when you think you've kicked what looks like a winning goal ... the goal posts have suddenly moved!

It's like going for the brake on a new model car but now the accelerators where the brake used to be ... KA-BOOM!

Panel beater 1. Consumer 0.

 

[wetibbe]

As to the video of Pop seeing Windows 8 for the first time, it just proves my points.

Anyone who thinks they will sit down at a monitor and know what to do with Win 8 fits the category that I cannot type here due to website rules.

I bought a new AT&T desk top phone with another cordless phones. It came with a complete book of instructions. I still can't set the date, time, answering, number of rings and so on without reading the book again.

I bought my son a Tide watch, a wrist watch that tells the time, moon phases, calendar date and more. Neither he nor I can set all of the features without the instructions in front of us.

I bought a new Buick Le Sabre automobile. I couldn't find the battery *( It was moved from under the hood to under the back seat) , couldn't fine the spare tire, couldn't set the clock and figure out some dash board features without the owners manual.

I bought a new HP digital camera. I couldn't figure out how to set the various features, of which there are MANY, without reading the book.

I bought a new computer with Windows 8 installed. The first thing I did was hurry down to the book store and buy Windows 8 Step by Step. Simultaneously I looked at the video Tutorials in Win 8 and elsewhere.

People who are so fundamentally lacking I common sense that they will sit down to a screen and somehow, delusionally, believe that intuitively Win 8 will fly through the air and be absorbed by the pores probably also believe in reincarnation and space aliens. It really takes someone with an IQ higher than their golf score. Then again there are people who couldn't pour pixx from a boot with the instructions written on the heel.

But then, Hey, I'm a strong advocate of free speech and expression. Even from the Village Moron. .

 

[Coke Robot]

As to the video of Pop seeing Windows 8 for the first time, it just proves my points.

Anyone who thinks they will sit down at a monitor and know what to do with Win 8 fits the category that I cannot type here due to website rules.

I bought a new AT&T desk top phone with another cordless phones. It came with a complete book of instructions. I still can't set the date, time, answering, number of rings and so on without reading the book again.

I bought my son a Tide watch, a wrist watch that tells the time, moon phases, calendar date and more. Neither he nor I can set all of the features without the instructions in front of us.

I bought a new Buick Le Sabre automobile. I couldn't find the battery *( It was moved from under the hood to under the back seat) , couldn't fine the spare tire, couldn't set the clock and figure out some dash board features without the owners manual.

I bought a new HP digital camera. I couldn't figure out how to set the various features, of which there are MANY, without reading the book.

I bought a new computer with Windows 8 installed. The first thing I did was hurry down to the book store and buy Windows 8 Step by Step. Simultaneously I looked at the video Tutorials in Win 8 and elsewhere.

People who are so fundamentally lacking I common sense that they will sit down to a screen and somehow, delusionally, believe that intuitively Win 8 will fly through the air and be absorbed by the pores probably also believe in reincarnation and space aliens. It really takes someone with an IQ higher than their golf score. Then again there are people who couldn't pour pixx from a boot with the instructions written on the heel.

But then, Hey, I'm a strong advocate of free speech and expression. Even from the Village Moron. .

Amen to that! :thumb:

 

[Ray8]

The fact that even the most basic aspects of the OS can't be understood by a reasonably knowledgeable computer user, without having to buy a book, proves that the user interface is a complete fail.

 

[mbratch]

People who are so fundamentally lacking I common sense that they will sit down to a screen and somehow, delusionally, believe that intuitively Win 8 will fly through the air and be absorbed by the pores probably also believe in reincarnation and space aliens. It really takes someone with an IQ higher than their golf score. Then again there are people who couldn't pour pixx from a boot with the instructions written on the heel.

Not sure why you feel it necessary to denigrate those who don't go to a manual when they want to figure out how to use a system that has, frankly, been touted as "so simple a child could figure it out". A common comment I've heard from people who use an iPad for the first time is, "Wow, I was able to figure this thing out and use it productively without requiring a manual". It's about making the power accessible to the user in an intuitive way. What your saying is 180 degrees from that.

Don't get me wrong, I like some things about Windows 8, and I personally don't find it all that complicated. I simply find the changes to be unnecessary and not enhancing to my particular workflow. I understand why MS did it: so that they could make everything the same across all hardware platforms.

 

[Coke Robot]

The fact that even the most basic aspects of the OS can't be understood by a reasonably knowledgeable computer user, without having to buy a book, proves that the user interface is a complete fail.

Oh boy...

You must not see the several books in how to use Windows xp, Windows 95, Windows vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, ect., ect., ect.

Seriously, I had a book back in 2001 or so in how to use Windows xp and the interweb highway. I don't know why I had it, I think someone actually gave it to me for some reason.... All those books and whatnot literally just cover the basics of the new Windows version. Windows 8 isn't EVEN CLOSE to being the first OS to having books written about, even mac os, ios, and android have them as well.

So by your thinking, LITERALLY EVERY OPERATING SYSTEM UI is a complete failure.

 

[Coke Robot]

People who are so fundamentally lacking I common sense that they will sit down to a screen and somehow, delusionally, believe that intuitively Win 8 will fly through the air and be absorbed by the pores probably also believe in reincarnation and space aliens. It really takes someone with an IQ higher than their golf score. Then again there are people who couldn't pour pixx from a boot with the instructions written on the heel.

Not sure why you feel it necessary to denigrate those who don't go to a manual when they want to figure out how to use a system that has, frankly, been touted as "so simple a child could figure it out". A common comment I've heard from people who use an iPad for the first time is, "Wow, I was able to figure this thing out and use it productively without requiring a manual". It's about making the power accessible to the user in an intuitive way. What your saying is 180 degrees from that.

Don't get me wrong, I like some things about Windows 8, and I personally don't find it all that complicated. I simply find the changes to be unnecessary and not enhancing to my particular workflow. I understand why MS did it: so that they could make everything the same across all hardware platforms.

It's interesting how younger people and children can pick up Windows 8 quicker than the elder veterans of Windows. If I can speculate, I think it's because the older veterans have an expectation of what Windows should do and look like: window controls, start menu, Desktop icons, folders, window chrome and on. But the newer users of Windows are more inclined to go with it and learn the new ways.

But this isn't to say that Windows 8 is that drop dead easy, even it made me take a curve of learning. BUT, I never had to use the internet or anything to get things figured out, I took a boat and explored EVERYTHING. That's just me, I'm inclined to tinker around with technology and learn it myself and need the manual or internet or instructions when I'm genuinely stumped. What I know after all this time helps pretty much everyone I come across with Windows 8 blues, I just tweak the UI a bit to have certain things pinned to Start, tell them the certain gestures that need to be used, and then they're usually fine.

That's one of my things against Windows 8 if I had to say. There just isn't a good rundown of the UI. There used to be tour of Windows back with xp, but not with vista, 7, or 8. That's probably because no one went through the tour (really odd by the way, Windows xp being secure, what?!) so they took it out. But they should had the new things about Windows at the OOBE screen, or after it. I was shown how to use Windows 8 better with the new Microsoft Touch Mouse drivers than Windows 8 did. That's not correct in my book.

 

[Ray8]

You have completely missed my point. Of course there have been books about Windows for years, but in this case, the guy was clearly computer literate and was also completely baffled by the UI. The Windows desktop UI has been ostensibly the same for the last 30 odd years and is something just about any computer user is reasonably familiar with.

The desktop UI wasn't broken, but Microsoft decided that it needed fixing. And this aspect is the most common and increasing complaint about Windows 8, as people buy new PCs and are confronted with it for the first time. This is not going to go away, so get used to the complaints and the needling of Microsoft.

 

[badcat]

I use Start8 on all my machines and it works flawless so far.

I use this also and it works great. No issues at all.

 

[badcat]

You have completely missed my point. Of course there have been books about Windows for years, but in this case, the guy was clearly computer literate and was also completely baffled by the UI. The Windows desktop UI has been ostensibly the same for the last 30 odd years and is something just about any computer user is reasonably familiar with.

The desktop UI wasn't broken, but Microsoft decided that it needed fixing. And this aspect is the most common and increasing complaint about Windows 8, as people buy new PCs and are confronted with it for the first time. This is not going to go away, so get used to the complaints and the needling of Microsoft.

I agree. The Metro interface is awful on a normal computer, in my opinion. It's great on a smartphone or tablet though. In my case it's not that I can't learn it, it's that I don't want to because it will never make any sense on a standard computer.

 

[Ray8]

Another thing I might point out about the UI is that many people have a desktop PC running Windows, an iPad and either an iPhone or Android phone. This sort of technology mix is very common. Microsoft has sort of jumped the gun and assumed that from day one with Windows 8, everyone is going to dump their iPads and Apple/Android phones and will move across to an all Windows environment.

That isn't going to happen, not now and most likely not for a long time. To that end, Microsoft has angered a vast number of their dedicated PC users, by inflicting on them a mobile phone interface (the lowest common denominator) unnecessarily and for really no reasonable need. The desktop UI should have been retained for the desktop, without having to resort to third party programs, and similarly for tablets (for those that want a tablet as a desktop alternative). Was this too much to ask for? Would it have really hurt Microsoft to offer such a simple option?

 

[Coke Robot]

You have completely missed my point. Of course there have been books about Windows for years, but in this case, the guy was clearly computer literate and was also completely baffled by the UI. The Windows desktop UI has been ostensibly the same for the last 30 odd years and is something just about any computer user is reasonably familiar with.

The desktop UI wasn't broken, but Microsoft decided that it needed fixing. And this aspect is the most common and increasing complaint about Windows 8, as people buy new PCs and are confronted with it for the first time. This is not going to go away, so get used to the complaints and the needling of Microsoft.

Which is probably why there's the issue of using it, the Desktop UI has functioned relatively the same for 30 some years and of course there will be issues if that gets changed. Even ios uses a Desktop UI, which I find absurd. But even then, the Start Screen is almost like a Desktop UI, especially when live tiles get involved (properly developed live tiles) you have the new Windows. Windows 8 is designed for internet world and internet content, you can see updates of that content on the tile, THEN you open the app to further view things. It's like if you had a browser window open and had to refresh to view new content on the Desktop, tis not that efficient UI wise.

You can argue the Desktop was broken, but it's being abandoned slowly for other things that are Desktop Lite UIs, like android and ios. But it's not that hard to use the Start Screen as a giant start menu. THAT'S where the issue can boil down to. This whole hands in the air, Microsoft is pushing us off a cliff notion is just getting absurd. The Desktop STILL is there, the Start Screen is just a Desktop sized start menu.

There's a saying that I think is applicable, "A computer is only as smart as the person using it."

I think I was actually told that many many many years ago in a computer class I took and I was getting deeply annoyed with the compulator and my instructor told me that. A rather intelligent burn, but insightful.

 

[Ray8]

Your instructor was an idiot. A computer and, more to the point, the software and the UI is designed by people. Those immersed totally in their programming and pet desires, often do not realise that not everyone see things or works in the same way as they do, usually it's quite different. The IT industry is the most notorious for belittling those who are not technically or computer literate.