My logic behind Microsoft's controversial decision: Removal of Start

[Pixel Eater]

Because no pain no gain. It's faster! It is! I promise ;(

 

[mart4494]

The question is if MS is so confident in the new configuration why not allow a default selection that allows the user to have a CHOICE of the traditional start menu?

I personally don't think they are that confident. To keep the cash flowing they must follow the fruit company's lead and sell downloaded apps plus their monthly cloud subscription service. Hence there will not be a UI choice at install time. But hey, according to MS no one (or very few) ever bothered using the start menu so what would we know. MS must be right surely!!

It'll only take one or two periods of downtime with the cloud service then everything will hit the fan if folks have decided to go that route.

For myself, I will never in a million and one years store client information on a third party cloud service even if they had given (which I would doubt) permission to do so.

We live in interesting times and it will be especially so over the coming few months.

 

[mart4494]

Because no pain no gain. It's faster! It is! I promise ;(

You can be sure about the pain but not sure about the gain. Rather than MS going on about it being new (that's true) and modern looking (open to opinion), I would welcome them (MS) to explain in simple English exactly what the benefits will be for desktop/laptop users.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Everyone is saying this and that about Apple, WHAT no one has mention, is that Metro is similar to the Apple O/S 6 thru 9. And being a former iMac user the metro interface wasn't a biggie for myself to pick up and learn. To be absolutely honest, Mac O/S was better set up as the desktop interface. The only difference is, Mac O/S used the upper top left corner, and Microsoft is using the lower left corner. Go ahead and see for yourself. move your mouse as far lower left as you can, then click the right mouse button. It's magical!

 

[Pixel Eater]

You can be sure about the pain but not sure about the gain. Rather than MS going on about it being new (that's true) and modern looking (open to opinion), I would welcome them (MS) to explain in simple English exactly what the benefits will be for desktop/laptop users.

I'm just speaking from experience personally. I have literally no idea what Microsoft is saying. I've been having considerable increases in how fast I'm using Metro. I think we're looking at the best implementation of meta/Win key shortcuts ever so to that end I have enthusiastically decided it's time to trade in my '93 clicky keyboard for a Topre. That wasn't until a week ago however, even without those shortcuts things are really working out for me. Metro felt engaging in a way that made me want to learn any leftover tricks I'd never explored with Start Menu and how to really expedite things. Returning to the Start Menu now would feel like an honest step backwards.

By the way I didn't know about that right click menu!

 

[lehnerus2000]

Keyboard Shortcuts

Windows has had keyboard shortcuts for years.

Windows 7 has a huge number of shortcuts:
Shortcut Keys for Windows 7 - Windows 7 Forums

It is interesting how many people are saying, "use the keyboard shortcuts" instead of the W8/Metro GUI.

Maybe the W8/Metro GUI is awful and that's why keyboard shortcuts are in vogue again.

 

[crawfish]

Windows has had keyboard shortcuts for years.

Windows 7 has a huge number of shortcuts:
Shortcut Keys for Windows 7 - Windows 7 Forums

It is interesting how many people are saying, "use the keyboard shortcuts" instead of the W8/Metro GUI.

Maybe the W8/Metro GUI is awful and that's why keyboard shortcuts are in vogue again.

I've found the majority of Microsoft Windows key shortcuts useless and use a registry hack to disable them. I do like shortcuts, however, and I use Autohotkey to create ones that makes sense to me. For example, for years I've bound certain frequently used folders to Win+1, Win+2, etc, and then Windows 7 came along and bound them to taskbar icon positions, which I think is useless. The only Microsoft shortcuts I keep are Win+E and Win+L. For Microsoft to add even more shortcuts further signifies their fail and irritates me to the extent they're necessary to make up for their UI mistakes.

 

[Pixel Eater]

Windows has had keyboard shortcuts for years.

Windows 7 has a huge number of shortcuts:
Shortcut Keys for Windows 7 - Windows 7 Forums

It is interesting how many people are saying, "use the keyboard shortcuts" instead of the W8/Metro GUI.

Maybe the W8/Metro GUI is awful and that's why keyboard shortcuts are in vogue again.

Like I said though, I didn't have a windows key until a week ago. Yes I've had them in the past, yes I'm well enough aware of what was possible in 7. This is the first time I'm really enjoying them though. Things were still impressively faster and more intuitive, even without one. In my book anyway.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I've found the majority of Microsoft Windows key shortcuts useless and use a registry hack to disable them.

You don't use window snapping?

That is my most used Windows key shortcut.

Like I said though, I didn't have a windows key until a week ago.

My bad.

 

[Dave44]

I don't miss the start button one bit much faster pressing windows key and typing and going threw start button can't wait to get the final version

 

[FSeal]

I don't miss the start button one bit much faster pressing windows key and typing and going threw start button can't wait to get the final version

You DO know that in Windows 7 if you hit the windows key and start typing that the EXACT same thing happens as in Metro right?

So we didn't need metro for that functionality, it was always there!

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Cool Fseal, I hadn't known that. I always used Search.

 

[Pixel Eater]

You DO know that in Windows 7 if you hit the windows key and start typing that the EXACT same thing happens as in Metro right

Word, and I used that too, although I feel like this is where having fullsize visual cues comes into play as a good thing.

 

[crawfish]

You don't use window snapping?

That is my most used Windows key shortcut.

They're still enabled. You see, Microsoft doesn't respect the NoWinKeys registry hack for several combinations, including Aero Snap and Win+L, which fortunately, I don't mind. The only reason I started using the hack is because when I left the keys enabled, from time to time, Autohotkey wouldn't override them successfully. Changing focus to a different program or closing an Explorer window or something like that would clear it up. I noticed this mainly with Win+1, Win+2, etc, which I was using long before Windows 7 tried to take them over, and the registry hack has fixed this problem completely.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

This is one of my long ones again, so if you don't like long posts just skip it. I wrote the outline of this in Notepad. I think I wore a server out (Or at least it's smoking) editing and previewing this.

Beg to disagree on this one. Having everything on one screen is the definition of clutter. I bet you use sub-folders to orgnaize your documents instead of dumping everything in My Documents. The sub-menus are the menu equivalent to sub-folders.

The Start Menu has always been horrible because it's laborious to navigate, and it GOES AWAY when you select something from it, forcing you to do the navigation all over again the next time.

The desktop has always been horrible because it's usually covered by windows, obscuring the things it contains. Also, Windows has always been horrible about remembering where you placed icons.

The Metro Start Screen is horrible because it's an infinitely scrolling roll, a full-screen, modal monstrosity, that depends upon things like "The 4 Corners", which are certain to appear in the next edition of "GUI Bloopers". The "live tiles" are worthless because they aren't visible when I'm actually using my computer, and they're too small to convey much useful information anyway. Metro would never have been invented if Microsoft wasn't so desperate over losing the mobile market and so lacking in confidence in their mobile efforts they're trying to leverage their success on the desktop to make mobile happen. I think it's going to backfire in a big way.

The Windows 7 taskbar is brilliant because it combines the original taskbar purpose of helping one locate and activate windows with program launching. By pinning programs, you always know where to look for a program to launch it, activate its window, check on its progress indicator, access its jump list, etc. Programs stay exactly where you pin them, which improves efficiency over time through familiarity and muscle memory. On a relatively small 1680x1050 monitor, it's possible to fit 18 icons on a single row, taking up about 70% of the horizontal area, leaving room for some folder shortcuts and the notification area. The taskbar really comes into its own when you use multiple rows, like I described in this message. I use a lot of different programs, and people who use fewer will easily get by with 1 or 2 rows.

Crawfish, I think out of all of us I gotta' say you make a very good valid point and explanation. The good 'ole Taskbar. A good answer to the Metro Start Screen, Start Menu, and desktop......For now. I think the Metro Start Screen will remain, the desktop will go bye-bye eventually in due time just as the Start Button and Start menu has. I will explain below.

I'll admit that even for me, a FanBoy, sometimes i get frustrated with the Metro Start screen for it gets in the way while working on the desktop then navigating to the Metro start for an app to use. While one is on the traditional desktop and needs to open a Metro app -> WinKey to Metro start -> open the app -> use it -> close the app -> and poof! there's that Metro Start screen again when I want to be back on the desktop. I know this sounds all so mundane, but I want to lay it all out here.

The desktop in 8 is actually treated as a Metro app "taking second in place". A "Desktop" behind a "desktop" (if you will) or a "Metro app" behind a "desktop" in that the Metro Start screen is presently both a desktop and menu combined since it's 1st in line. Again, the traditional desktop being treated as a Metro app.

Ok, so, what if all traditional programs are written in the Metro style as a Metro app or more appropriately a M$ app? That would solve the whole problem, wouldn't it? I believe this is what M$ has in mind with this drastic change of an OS called Windows 8. All programs will eventually be M$ apps. They are being written as you read now. Imagine the possibilities here. They can totally do away with the desktop all together. One will open an app in stand alone window or -> Open another with an option to snap along side -> Open another app with the option of a 3rd pane -> Open another for a 4th pane and so on. Just like the big screen TVs with multi-pane viewing a zillion channels in live time. Or perform on multiple monitors. (I know there's a long way to go so far as snapping and multi-monitors, so I don't want to hear the slack. I think this will be worked out in the future)

Z3r2d2 (Don't taze me, Dude!) could open a zillion on his monitor posted here just above my post:

http://www.eightforums.com/windows-...3-customer-preview-released-2.html#post103814

For convenience I'll paste here:

View attachment 7433

One can even navigate pages in each app within those zillion panes. A somehow-added Taskbar could be added on the screen at command with one's most-used apps for more convenience. Just think of the possibilities. If it can be imagined, it can be written.

A plausible reason for the M$ store: The problem for any OS is that one may use a device or PC for one purpose and another for another purpose. A modern computer is a multipurpose machine. Therfore, why should I load programs or apps that I wouldn't use for my purpose or another user for theirs? What? To take up data storage space, resourses, and/or add to the overall cost? How obsurd is that? I can't find the thread where the poster stated: (I'm paraphrasing here) "Why don't they just sell a KERNAL for a certain cost and then add apps as needed". What a novel idea! One could then purchase the KERNAL and then buy what one needs and/or desires. No more, no less. I think this is where M$ is headed with Metro, their store, touch, and the like.

A Jimbo quote:

High there
considering that still nearly 50% of computers are STILL RUNNING XP I don't think you'll have any problems running W7 for as long as you want to.

I also read posters (mostly Pros like Jimbo) on this subject with relatively the same statement. I think most enterprises will stay with 7 or upgrade to it, creating some revenue. M$ will support it for quite a while. This gives M$ time to win the hearts of the general public with there Allfecta (PC, phone, and Tablets) to take on iMe. In the mean time, they'll be perfecting an 8 SP1 or a 9 that works for enterprise. Most likely a 9.

I'm a forum addict....Give me feedback!....I need more feedback!.... :shock:

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Howdy HippsieGypsie just noticing you're from McHenry, IL. I only thought McHenry was a county there, didn't know they had a city named that too.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Hi Mike. McHenry was the county seat of McHenry county when Lake county was part of it originally. When they were split, Woodstock became our seat, Waukegan theirs.

I think I remember reading in a post that "Y'all is from Taxes"?

Did you notice I sent you a PM Sunday?

 

[SIW2]

It would make more sense and cause less irritation if MS would let people turn off and on Metro as they like.

It is just a skin.

MS don't want to let you avoid Metro - that is how they get you into their online services. It is like a constantly repeating pop up ad.

 

[Arpan]

It would make more sense and cause less irritation if MS would let people turn off and on Metro as they like.

It is just a skin.

MS don't want to let you avoid Metro - that is how they get you into their online services.

:thumbup: Completely agree with this.

It is like a constantly repeating pop up ad.

Sorry, can't agree with this.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

It would make more sense and cause less irritation if MS would let people turn off and on Metro as they like.

It is just a skin.

MS don't want to let you avoid Metro - that is how they get you into their online services. It is like a constantly repeating pop up ad.

Yes. Metro is just a skin or style. I hope everyone understood me in that eventually traditional programs will be written as M$ apps. I initially called it Metro apps, but that's not the correct terminology. Eventually I think they will push out 3rd party programs unless that software company signs a contract with M$ to add to their store as an "app" to add to the KERNAL or OS so as to personalize one's device including a PC. One will eventually personalize with their choice of a skin also.

Windows 8 is a drastic change to all. Comments and emotions are flying here on the forum and elsewhere I'm sure. But, I think in the overall scheme of things to where I believe M$ is aiming, it's a minor change.

One will actually be able to personalize their devices for their use and their style/skin.

M$ is in a business. Business has no heart, otherwise one will not be successful in that business. It's M$'s business and a very successful one at that. They will aim at what they think they will profit by whether I like it or not. My only choice as a consumer is whether to purchase or not.