Solved Let's stop moaning

[Mustang]

"You missed the whole point of my post."

"So what does the title of your thread mean: "Lets stop moaning" Who are you implying is moaning, if not the Win8 disenchanted?"

I wonder if you even read my post, other than the title. You seem to have missed my point somewhere along the line. The whole text was a comment on the constant ongoing discussion of the Metro Start menu. If, in your opinion, that encompasses the entire Windows 8 OS, so be it!

In terms of dissension, W8 and Metro are synonymous.

 

[SIW2]

@Dave,

I understand you think we are going round in circles, or repeating the same points.

The reason is simple. Those who do not like what MS have done with win8 , and do not like the direction they are headed , continue to say so. That is because if they do not, the posts would be buried in old threads and no longer seen.

To stop saying so and just put up with it would be to turn over and take it in the butt.

@Mystere,

I understand your point, too.

MS wants to monetarise their customers. They have chosen to do that by deliberately going against the feedback they received from a very substantial proportion of them.

They also posted up an extraordinary Gaffe, blaming the customers for not liking what they are offering.

Maybe they could do whatever they wanted previously - when there was no competeition ( not unless you had $1200 or more to buy a mac ).

If they are now moving into a different market - where there is competition, perhaps they would be better thinking about product management.

Whatever else you think of Apple - their product management over the last few years has made them what they are today.

Apple do not deliberately go against substantial feedback- nor do they blame their customers.

@Cokie

LOL - you keep banging on as if try it enough and you will love it. That is like saying you don't like eating dog crap because you haven't eaten enough of it.

I disagree with much of what you say - but I defend your right to say it.

It also seems to me you have a very narrow view. That is ok - at least your posts, although misguided, are not rude or arrogant - they are usually enthusiatic, even humorous.

There are a few on this forum who are rude and sarcastic, or showing off, some seem to need their choices validated by others and get upset if not. Unfortunately , they have a tendency to come from the like win8 camp. It is sad they suffer from insecurities, but I can't help them with that.

 

[Mustang]

You can argue till you turn blue in the face. I'm not arguing that what Microsoft believes is true. I'm just trying to tell you why they are acting the way they are. Every so often Microsoft "bets the farm" on something. This time it's touch, and they're going into it full bore.

Like it or not, Microsoft controls the direction of their product. Not you, or me or anyone else. They dictate how it is built and what it does. If the market doesn't like it, they won't buy it. They learn their lesson.

You missed my point. In my initial post I wasn't trying to argue or analyse M$ marketing strategies. I was defending the right of consumers to express their dissatisfaction with a company's product, without justifying or proving anything, but simply stating their preferences. And doing this via this forum, without risk of being labelled moaners or whingers.

But off topic, the only reason M$ have controlled the way things are done is because they have held a monopoly on the bottom end of the PC market for many years. It didn't really matter if they made a mistake, it simply meant their profit was delayed until they rectified the mistake. But that situation is already being challenged by the entry of OSs like Android, etc. And that's precisely why M$ had to act with a pre-emptive strke.

M$ constantly advertise that they lsiten to their cumstomers and value feedback. And that's what we're giving them. Over the years I've had several major run-ins with M$ Australia, and had a lot of communication with their head office in Sydney, both by phone and email exchange. On one occasion I complained that I had to Google to find out how to turn off auto play in optical drives for XP, because the switches in the properties for those drives didn't work. They wanted to charge me $50 to trouble shoot the problem, and said it was akin to asking a mechanic to analyse a car problem.

I told them it was akin to asking where the switch is to turn off the fog lights in a car. Then when Vista came out there was a separate switch in Control Panel to do just that. I'm not claiming that was just due to my influence, but it made me feel they did listen.

In the end though, nothing lasts forever. Even the mighty Roman Empire fell to a bunch of undisciplined barbarians! At least that's what the Romans thought they were. So maybe beware the Linux barbarian?

 

[Coke Robot]

Shoot, even when Windows 7 came out, there were for a few months after release of people complaining about how the new "large and confusing" Taskbar was too cumbersome and preferred the classic Taskbar. Why pin things?



And yet, those complaints went away and it's the fastest selling version of Windows to date....

 

[pparks1]

^ Those complaints about Windows 7 were small fries compared to changes in Windows 8 though.

 

[Fredledingue]

One of the most hated User interfaces at the time of release was Windows XP, with it's "Interface designed by Disney", Now look at it

Looking at it, I would say that W8/Metro has been designed by Mickey Mouse himself! LOL.

And Microsoft believes that the world is moving to a touch-based computing model. They believe that is where the demand will be.

And that's why they must mess up big time with the Desktop PC? Makes no sens whatsoever.

even when Windows 7 came out, there were for a few months after release of people complaining about how the new "large and confusing" Taskbar was too cumbersome and preferred the classic Taskbar.

Indeed, it's sad that Microsoft never understood and always discarded the complains many users are telling them and at each version they succeed in doing something confusing again. Then poeple get used to it after a few months. Until there is a new release and, here we go again, changes that makes thing more complicated. Not saying that there aren't any good changes, but there are always some more complicated and confusing things. At every version of Windows. W8 only dwarfs anything else in this respect.

And yet, those complaints went away and it's the fastest selling version of Windows to date

I have been actively participating at the official MS' building W7 blog, and Steven Sinfosky has even replied 2 or 3 x to my comments and apparently read and replied often to others. But all we wrote fell on deaf ears, at least what he didn't want to listen. With W8 I gave up and went to unofficial forums to express my opinon because at MS it's a waste of time. Then accidentaly, they implemented some of the performance demands we made in W8... because they were forced to it if they wanted to install windows on less powerful tablets. That tells volume on how stupid and smug they are. And yes, I spend time writing all this not to bash poeple or products but because I deem necessary to voice your concern when something is wrong.

the classic Taskbar

I think poeple who love Metro Start Screen does so because it's incredibly classic, so is the new logo and new chrome (or absence of it). Poeple like things which are simple and classic and that's why some may like Metro. I do not for the reasons already written multiple times, but I do like the classic, simple and easy W98 interface. My dream was to have W7 with the W98 concept, but w8 is more W7 with Commodore64 concept.

It seems to me, on observation, that 90% of the comments, in this forum, when discussing the Metro screen, seem to lead into an argument, which leans towards comparison, of the two.

I'm not a moaning, whining, bashing professional, but we must admit that Metro is a monumental mistake... which could be solved by applying the very minor changes everybody is talking about. And it's infuriating to see that Microsoft doesn't want to do it for obscure reasons (or because they are just goofs).

 

[jimbo45]

^ Those complaints about Windows 7 were small fries compared to changes in Windows 8 though.

People have short memories.

Windows XP was universally LOATHED when it first appeared -- now it's about to go into well overdue retirement people are saying How great an OS it was and Ms should have stuck to that design.

Things change -- you either go with the flow or stick with the old stuff -- if you don't like the new stuff and can manage with older Os'es and software -- stay with it.

People have Cars these days -- but that still doesn't stop literally 100'000's of people enjoying some time riding horses too -- even some of the city centre breweries are re-introducing horses for local beer deliveries -- cheap, environmentally friendly, and horses can make "more horses" -- cars haven't quite yet discovered this trick yet.

So if you like XP / Win 7 stick with it -- unless you are an inveterate gamer I'll bet for most people just surfing the net or casually accessing email Windows 2000 would probably be more than sufficient for their needs (and it doesn't require activation either).

cheers
jimbo

 

[pparks1]

^ Those complaints about Windows 7 were small fries compared to changes in Windows 8 though.

People have short memories.

Windows XP was universally LOATHED when it first appeared -- now it's about to go into well overdue retirement people are saying How great an OS it was and Ms should have stuck to that design.

Things change -- you either go with the flow or stick with the old stuff -- if you don't like the new stuff and can manage with older Os'es and software -- stay with it.

People have Cars these days -- but that still doesn't stop literally 100'000's of people enjoying some time riding horses too -- even some of the city centre breweries are re-introducing horses for local beer deliveries -- cheap, environmentally friendly, and horses can make "more horses" -- cars haven't quite yet discovered this trick yet.

So if you like XP / Win 7 stick with it -- unless you are an inveterate gamer I'll bet for most people just surfing the net or casually accessing email Windows 2000 would probably be more than sufficient for their needs (and it doesn't require activation either)..

cheers
jimbo

I said Windows 7, not XP.

 

[FSeal]

XP was not universally loathed at all! Not even close. Of if that's the overblown way you want to describe it, then Win 8 will be met with murderous rage. :/

XP had a some people on edge because on the NT side they weren't sure they wanted consumer bits in destabilizing it and on the consumer side there might be a few consumer devices that didn't have NT drivers (But that was pretty small, no worse than the XP to Vista driver issues (which in today's society were blown way out of proportion)

However when it came out and satisfied both camps universally, it was hailed as the second coming and everyone was thankful to not have two completely separate lines of windows OSes to buy and code for.

Microsoft has gone in full reverse with Win 8. It IS now two completely seperate oses in one that users and coders now need to chose between for everything they do, buy or make. Win 8 has massively complicated things, split windows, users and developers right down the middle.

This... is nothing like then...

 

[jimbo45]

^ Those complaints about Windows 7 were small fries compared to changes in Windows 8 though.

People have short memories.

Windows XP was universally LOATHED when it first appeared -- now it's about to go into well overdue retirement people are saying How great an OS it was and Ms should have stuck to that design.

Things change -- you either go with the flow or stick with the old stuff -- if you don't like the new stuff and can manage with older Os'es and software -- stay with it.

People have Cars these days -- but that still doesn't stop literally 100'000's of people enjoying some time riding horses too -- even some of the city centre breweries are re-introducing horses for local beer deliveries -- cheap, environmentally friendly, and horses can make "more horses" -- cars haven't quite yet discovered this trick yet.

So if you like XP / Win 7 stick with it -- unless you are an inveterate gamer I'll bet for most people just surfing the net or casually accessing email Windows 2000 would probably be more than sufficient for their needs (and it doesn't require activation either)..

cheers
jimbo

I said Windows 7, not XP.

Hi there
agreed but the point was that a lot of people will find any change an irritation.
W7 was a bit special in the sense it was replacing (IMO) a much maligned OS -- VISTA -- and that OS really was a victim of being released way before typical hardware was ready for it.

W7 received a decent press from the start - but remember it's taken nearly 3 years after introduction to even begin to make inroads into the vast numbers of XP installations still remaining -- and is only just beginning to be rolled out in large enterprises too.

W7 can be considered as a special case -- but in general Ms received mega amounts of complaints about each new release of Windows anyway.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[SIW2]

@Freddie,

I don't think the reasons are obscure.

MS decided they would do it this way - because they think it is better for MS.

They think the average user will be constantly seeing the start screen and will be easily led into MS online services and apps.

That is why they implemented it like this.

Yes, it is possible to avoid that scenario - but most people won't - they will just follow along where they are being coaxed to go.

If they meet stiff resistance - then they can easily do a quick release to fix it - and will be greeted with cries of - this is it - this is what win8 should have been - MS are listening ( even tho they didn't listen in the first place ).

In essence , they are "trying it on".

could be solved by applying the very minor changes everybody is talking about. And it's infuriating to see that Microsoft doesn't want to do it for obscure reasons

 

[Coke Robot]

I remember XP. And its LUNA interface that oddly reminds me of my old Dell tower: bulky with a crapton of plastic. It didn't really take off anywhere till nearly over half a year, which is usual with all new Windows releases. It takes some time before it becomes mainstream.


If you want to talk about UI disappointment, let's talk Windows Longhorn. That thing would had been impeccable.



But with Windows 8, it's a strange different. But in the end, it does the same thing past Windows versions have done. There's a location to open a program, folder, drive, or Library and a Desktop to work on. There is of course, another place in 8 called the metro/immersive...

 

[Colonel Travis]

The old desktop can be setup precisely as it was in windows 7. The mentioned classic, and a couple of others, will take you straight to the legacy desktop, and you need never see the Metro again, if that is your choice.

Wonder how many people using 8 are/will be using it like this and without Metro?

 

[lehnerus2000]

Strange

The old desktop can be setup precisely as it was in windows 7.

Where are the:

• Icon Size settings?
• Icon Spacing settings?
• Font Face settings?
• Selection Colour settings?

The only old setting I've been able to locate is Font Size.

BTW, this is the General Discussion section, not the Tutorial or specific Help category sections.

 

[davehc]

Got me there, lehnerus. If I am thinking about the same feature to which you refer? You mean that "advanced options" if you used a Windows (7) basic theme?

I did have fun playing with that.
The key is
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics

But it is rather more complicated to work with!!!!! I altered a few things there (too many!) and made a mess. But I had a back up of the registry, so, no problem.
Anyway. I stirred up something I did not intend, with this thread, but some very interesting points of view. As I started it, and the feedback has thoroughly satisfied me, I am marking it as solved. That should not close it, of course.

 

[Mustang]

It seems that this thread has degenerated into doing exactly what the thread author has suggested we stop doing ... namely aruging the pros and cons of W8. And instead, list solutions to difficulties in W8.

He then goes on to list the way he has found solutions that satisfy him, as evidenced by the quote below. However, that simply comes across as promoting W8, by implying that everyone is happy with those solutions. Which means it's a false representation because it doesn't show the whole picture.

It is very much a question of choice.

There is a minority of members here ... who appear to have found difficulty in accepting the Metro start menu ...

I, whenever I completed a reinstall, spent a little time in the old menu ....

I liked a clean desktop - not everyone's choice, that is apparent. Now I have the best of both worlds ....

I have weakened, to the extent that I have installed the "Classic" menu ....

There are several other aspects of Windows 8, which seem to have slipped through the cracks ... but surely a move forward?

I am sure it will be of great help to all members, if the discussions start to put more emphasis on small ways , or even hacks, to improve the performance facilities and enhance the general us of Windows.

While I agree there is no point debating our personal preferences, as SIW2 pointed out, it is necessary to make new readers/members of this forum aware that many do not accept these so called "solutions" as being solutions at all. And, to list the reasons why, so they're not lost in the antiquity of earlier posts and threads.

If we only point out the various work arounds that are acceptable to some members; and that some members' preference is to accept it as it is ... that gives a false representation of W8 as being generally accepted by this forum en masse. And that simply is not true.

Then there is the related question of registering our dissatisfaction to M$, by listing our grievances, in the hope that others who read why we're dissatisfied, will also add their voice to the protestors. And there is no way that is going to stop happening.

You might say, if we throw enough mud, hopefully some will stick. However, I think it's more accurate to say we're trying to clear away the mud of pseudo solutions, so the reasons why we are dissatisfied are clearly delineated. But obviously this thread is not the place to do it, even though some have counter argued the authors "solutions".

If you label as "moaning and whining", our presentation of the reasons why we don't like W8, then we certainly will go on "moaning and whining!" I prefer to call it registering our dissatisfaction to M$ re W8, with logical reasons why in view of our preferences.

 

[tseven]

I do want to voice my opinions to Microsoft however I can't even get online at the moment on my windows 8 desktop. This forum is all about debating. I guess we can call that moaning as well. I'm not opposed to working around it. I have worked around it, but we shouldn't have to. This product will sell because it's not a bad product it just needs work. It was like vista. There are certain things that should have gotten more attention. I'm not saying they didn't work on this product but on the desktop it still needs work. I know it works with a mouse but it also is much more irritating using the mouse to navigate. Overall they needed more time to think or whoever worked on the desktop needed to create a better experience and interface. I like that they have decided to change up the interface of the operating system. I was really happy to hear it. But their execution is the problem.

 

[Mustang]

I do want to voice my opinions to Microsoft however I can't even get online at the moment on my windows 8 desktop. This forum is all about debating. I guess we can call that moaning as well. I'm not opposed to working around it. I have worked around it, but we shouldn't have to. This product will sell because it's not a bad product it just needs work. It was like vista. There are certain things that should have gotten more attention. I'm not saying they didn't work on this product but on the desktop it still needs work. I know it works with a mouse but it also is much more irritating using the mouse to navigate. Overall they needed more time to think or whoever worked on the desktop needed to create a better experience and interface. I like that they have decided to change up the interface of the operating system. I was really happy to hear it. But their execution is the problem.

While I agree with most of what you say, I don't think this is the thread to say it in.

Maybe someone should start a thread entitled: Pros and cons of W8 as seen by members of this forum. What you think??????

 

[Colonel Travis]

Kinda feel sorry for you, dave - thread turned into the very thing you can't stand.

 

[davehc]

Thanks Colonel, but no worries. Only one member chose to take a rather more aggressive and critical attitude towards the OP. I wont comment, as it may result in further backlash.
I thought even Pparks (No rudeness intended here!) post was quite fair and subjective. I think I assimilated quite a bit from the feedback, as to those particular users feelings and attitudes.
Although I instigated it, I really am thinking now that perhaps the thread could useful be closed, before it continues to degenerate and go off topic.