Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?

[wase4711]

well. as someone who dumped windoze 7 years ago, I recently came back to win 7, because OSX is really nothing like it has been over the years; Apple wants their OS to be just like their mobile OS, and I for one did not like it at all..
Win 7 has been impressive to me, and, now, with the onset of win 8, I am waiting for my new dell xps one 27 with a touch screen and win 8 baked in to arrive this week; I can understand peoples fear and concern about changing a pretty perfect OS like Win 7, but, back in the days of Win 3.1, people freaked out when win 95 came out too...
My only point is that the computer world has always moved when Microsoft does, and win 8 wont be any different...If you dont like it, stick with win 7, but for me, change is good, and I cant wait to start using 8..

 

[SIW2]

I think maybe one should consider what this is.

It is a company trying to sell something.

That company will benefit from selling it, but will you?

Perhaps looking a teeny bit below the surface is a good idea. Where is it leading - do I really want to be monetarised - is that where I want to be led?

These comments about you must change - or it is your fault for fearing change are complete hokum.

It is a product - MS is selling it. Period.

 

[Mystere]

And I will repeat what I said, because you seem to be ignoring it.

If you don't want to change, then don't upgrade. If you don't want to be "Monitized", then don't upgrade. If you don't want the company to benefit, don't upgrade. If you don't want what the company is selling, don't buy it!

What is so hard to understand about that? If you don't like it, don't buy it.

But if you DO upgrade, then don't complain that it's not exactly the same as the old version. That's just pointless.

 

[area 66]

My only point is that the computer world has always moved when Microsoft does, and win 8 wont be any different...If you dont like it, stick with win 7, but for me, change is good, and I cant wait to start using 8..

This time Microsoft is trying to fallow the way the world go. I will say they panic, because they are (was ? ) out of the market of the tablets and the phones, Microsoft is in crises mode not in leader mode. If some manufacturer will support and force Linux community to come with a more user friendly solution, may be Microsoft will fall on surviving mode, but this not the case, Linux is going no where as for now, but it will not need too much to make thing change, and it will be good to have choices, the product will be better and probably cheaper too. Because between me and you , Microsoft don't make too much effort on the desktop version of Windows 8

 

[Mystere]

I would say that Microsoft has gone from Crisis to Leader with Windows 8. Apple has been trying to make OSX more like iOS for several releases now, and they aren't anywhere as close as Microsoft has come.

In this respect, Microsoft is leading the charge in unified applications. This has been the result of them having a huge amount of catchup to do from Windows Mobile 6.x to their current vision.

 

[SIW2]

Are they paying you, or does your blind adoration spring from something else?

It is a Forum .

People come here to discuss. It is not an appreciation society.

It appears that many have not considered what they are buying into. Perhaps the public at large are not in a position to follow what is going on.

MS are in a position of monopoly power, it is not a free choice.

 

[SIW2]

If some manufacturer will support and force Linux community to come with a more user friendly solution, may be Microsoft will fall on surviving mode, but this not the case, Linux is going no where as for now, but it will not need too much to make thing change, and it will be good to have choices, the product will be better and probably cheaper too.

Yes, if there were viable choices, that would be better for everybody ( except possibly MS ).

However, the barriers to entry are enormous.

 

[Eldred]

I have been waiting for win8 for 5 years..runs great on my touchscreen laptop (HP pavilion tx1340ea) making it the machine it always should have been..works great with MS 365..which has to be the way forward for organisations large and small..i like it so much I think I'll buy a windows phone as soon as Nokia put one on the market with a proper keyboard like the n97..and the kids like the games..

 

[Mystere]

Are they paying you, or does your blind adoration spring from something else?

Who's paying you? Or does your blind hatred spring from something else?

It works both ways, you know.

People come here to discuss. It is not an appreciation society.

So why are you jumping to accuse me of being paid, or mentally ill? It may not be an appreciation society, but it's certainly not a commiseration society. You appear to question the motives of anyone that doesn't agree with you.

It appears that many have not considered what they are buying into. Perhaps the public at large are not in a position to follow what is going on.

Perhaps, many have not. Many simply do not care. How many people consider the ramifications of a smart phone? How many consider the ramifications of posting to Twitter and Facebook? Many people simply do not have the concerns you do, because it simply does not matter to them.

Honestly. What are these "ramifications" you keep going on about? Walking down the street has ramifications.

MS are in a position of monopoly power, it is not a free choice.

BS. It's completely a free choice. Nobody forces anyone to use Windows. Even if they buy a computer that comes with Windows, nothing forces them to keep it (other than on ARM tablets and Phones, which is no different from iPads or iPhones). There are plenty of places that will sell you a Mac or Linux PC or whatever.

How about instead of arguing about what might be, argue about what is. YOU are not stuck with Windows 8. YOU do not have to buy it if you don't want to. YOU are not being forced to do something against your will. Arguing about poor joe sixpack who will be abused by the giant monopoly is just pointless.

The average user is perfectly capable of making purchasing decisions for themselves. If they need help, they will seek it out. But nobody is going to spend hundreds of dollars without asking a few questions.

 

[area 66]

If someone want to pay me to say something I can give my Paypal email....... lol

Something is sure, up to Windows 7 , Microsoft make huge effort to improve their new OS , because they want peoples to spent and upgrade. Now it's easy to see with Windows 8 , that Microsoft is after other type of customers than their regular desktop one. This is why it will be good to have competition in the desktop to make sure Microsoft continue to improve it and listen what peoples wants. In the phone and tablets industry they have this competition , just an Example the new 10" tablet of Google now have a back camera ( not present on the Nexus 7) , this have be done because peoples ask for it. Do Miscrosoft will listen peoples who ask for a start button, what is the need, they have the desktop monopoly, at least it'S what they think, if I'm not wrong, Apple sell more Mac with OSX than HP sell PC

What do you think will happen if Apple will license Dell and HP and others to let them use the OSX in cheaper PC ? . It won't happen , but

We just talk for fun let's keep it cool

 

[Mystere]

What do you think will happen if Apple will license Dell and HP and others to let them use the OSX in cheaper PC ? . It won't happen , but

You're right, it won't happen. I believe that Steve Jobs forbade it in his will (I wouldn't put it past him).

The desktop market is dying. Or rather, it's merging with the Mobile market. In a few years, there won't be desktop computers, other than for serious gamers, engineers, or certain other niche groups. Most people will carry their computer around as their phone or tablet or both, and just plug it into a dock on their desktop.

Why have a separate computer when you carry one around all the time?

Anyone that bets on "competition" in the desktop market will be looking for food scraps.

 

[Max Peck]

The desktop market is dying. Or rather, it's merging with the Mobile market. In a few years, there won't be desktop computers, other than for serious gamers, engineers, or certain other niche groups. Most people will carry their computer around as their phone or tablet or both, and just plug it into a dock on their desktop.

Agree that it's not dying. The ratio of devices is changing, that's all. There are certain tasks that you would never want to do on a tablet and some you don't need a desktop for. The market is becoming more refined. Prior to this, PC's (and I include all kinds - Macs, Windows boxes, etc.) were all that was available. Now people have more choice. People that wouldn't have really needed the power of a desktop device don't have to buy one now. It's just a paradigm shift.

I think, instead of a house with 5 PC's you're going to start seeing a house with one or two PC's as workstations/servers and the rest as handheld devices supported by the main PC. That's pretty much the direction I'm taking my house. As a developer I need "desktop" (laptop/desktop) machines. We also have 2 iPads and 2 iPhones. The balance of use is shifting somewhat to the mobile devices but when either of us need to get heavy-duty work done we return to the PC's. I don't see my desktop machines being replaced for everything, I see them being augmented.

-Max

 

[fmw]

I only have to look at my own own behavior. After 5 days with Win 8, my PC now looks like a Win 7 PC. I have deleted all of the metro stuff because it doesn't improve my computing. It just causes me to lose productivity. I have installed a third party start button on my desktop. It isn't as good as the Win 7 button but it is better than having no access to the file structure.

The concept, obviously, was to have a tablet OS that would run Windows programs. By definition that means compromise. It becomes an inferior tablet OS to Android (which I have on my phone) and an inferior PC OS to Windows 7. Compromises usually work out that way.

I even understand those that do no want to give up XP. XP was the best Windows OS in my view because it provided more control over the computing environment than anything that followed. But I'm a computer literate power use and not typical of the folks for whom Vista was designed. For me Microsoft is moving further from what I want in a PC OS. We're debating features like metro rather than debating computing. On a basis of computing Win 8 is a step backward for me.

 

[fmw]

The desktop market is dying. Or rather, it's merging with the Mobile market. In a few years, there won't be desktop computers, other than for serious gamers, engineers, or certain other niche groups. Most people will carry their computer around as their phone or tablet or both, and just plug it into a dock on their desktop.

Agree that it's not dying. The ratio of devices is changing, that's all. There are certain tasks that you would never want to do on a tablet and some you don't need a desktop for. The market is becoming more refined. Prior to this, PC's (and I include all kinds - Macs, Windows boxes, etc.) were all that was available. Now people have more choice. People that wouldn't have really needed the power of a desktop device don't have to buy one now. It's just a paradigm shift.

I think, instead of a house with 5 PC's you're going to start seeing a house with one or two PC's as workstations/servers and the rest as handheld devices supported by the main PC. That's pretty much the direction I'm taking my house. As a developer I need "desktop" (laptop/desktop) machines. We also have 2 iPads and 2 iPhones. The balance of use is shifting somewhat to the mobile devices but when either of us need to get heavy-duty work done we return to the PC's. I don't see my desktop machines being replaced for everything, I see them being augmented.

-Max

I'm sure you're right, Max, but to some degree it depends on the individual. I operate a home based business and have for 15 years. I have a wired Ethernet with 7 workstations. All but the notebook are used for the business. Win 8 gave me a browser that won't print. I don't understand that. I need to print my orders every morning and they reside on my web server. Win 8 gave me a computing environment with no access to the file structure. The first time I tried to find an image I needed I was baffled. I stayed baffled until I installed the desktop start button.

If the purpose of a PC is listening to music and looking at pictures, then Win 8 will handle the job just like a smart phone will. But as soon as you need to control your computer directly, it stands in the way. Win 8 doesn't even like my wired Ethernet. It thinks it is passé. What it is, however, is reliable. Changing the way one does computing is fine as long as it fills all the existing needs. Win 8 hasn't done that for me without my ignoring metro, installing the start button and going back to IE9.

 

[Mystere]

I'm sure you're right, Max, but to some degree it depends on the individual. I operate a home based business and have for 15 years. I have a wired Ethernet with 7 workstations. All but the notebook are used for the business. Win 8 gave me a browser that won't print. I don't understand that. I need to print my orders every morning and they reside on my web server. Win 8 gave me a computing environment with no access to the file structure. The first time I tried to find an image I needed I was baffled. I stayed baffled until I installed the desktop start button.

What are you talking about? Of course the browser prints. Of course you have access to the file structure. Windows 8's desktop is virtually identical to Windows 7, including a browser and a file explorer. Where do you get this stuff?

 

[Mystere]

There are certain tasks that you would never want to do on a tablet and some you don't need a desktop for.

The mistake you're making is that you are assuming the tablet of tomorrow will be the same as the tablet of today (underpowered, limited use, difficult to use for extended typing).

That is almost certainly not going to be true of tablets in the future. Tablets in the future will be just as powerful as todays desktops, just as capable, etc.. just in a smaller form factor. You plug it into a dock on your desktop and use your full size keyboard, mouse and monitor, and you won't know the difference between a "desktop" and a "tablet".

It's not hard to imagine that you would have extra storage built into your dock, and that the CPU in the tablet will "switch" to full power mode and give you all the power of todays fastest processors. The only difference between a desktop and a Tablet will be that a desktop can't be disconnected and carried with you for mobile use.

The concept of a "Desktop" will go away, even developers will use tablets, because there will be no difference in functionality, power, or ability. Why would you want a computer that you can't take with you, when it's just as powerful? What purpose would there be in that?

Think of the Motorola Atrix, but far more advanced. That will be everyones PC.

 

[Kat]

There's not a tablet on the market OR on the horizon that I'd take anywhere in preference
to the AS5735 laptop, if it wasn't for the fact that the 5735 eats batteries for breakfast.

So I'll be buying a cheapish tablet for just that reason (thinking 7" Samsung).
But I can't see it replacing these lappies or the desktop in the foreseeable future.

Most of my computing is not done 'on the move', and some of it needs serious horse-power
so a tablet will be an adjunct to my current setup, not a replacement for it.

 

[Max Peck]

The mistake you're making is that you are assuming the tablet of tomorrow will be the same as the tablet of today (underpowered, limited use, difficult to use for extended typing).

That is almost certainly not going to be true of tablets in the future. Tablets in the future will be just as powerful as todays desktops, just as capable, etc.. just in a smaller form factor. You plug it into a dock on your desktop and use your full size keyboard, mouse and monitor, and you won't know the difference between a "desktop" and a "tablet".

It's not hard to imagine that you would have extra storage built into your dock, and that the CPU in the tablet will "switch" to full power mode and give you all the power of todays fastest processors. The only difference between a desktop and a Tablet will be that a desktop can't be disconnected and carried with you for mobile use.

The concept of a "Desktop" will go away, even developers will use tablets, because there will be no difference in functionality, power, or ability. Why would you want a computer that you can't take with you, when it's just as powerful? What purpose would there be in that?

Think of the Motorola Atrix, but far more advanced. That will be everyones PC.

Could be. We'll just have to see how the landscape looks in another 5 or 10 years. Perhaps we'll get to the point where our entire computing platform is on our pocket device and we just plug it into the "dock" when we get home, or into a tablet with a dock for the device.

-Max

 

[Max Peck]

I only have to look at my own own behavior. After 5 days with Win 8, my PC now looks like a Win 7 PC. I have deleted all of the metro stuff because it doesn't improve my computing. It just causes me to lose productivity. I have installed a third party start button on my desktop. It isn't as good as the Win 7 button but it is better than having no access to the file structure.

The concept, obviously, was to have a tablet OS that would run Windows programs. By definition that means compromise. It becomes an inferior tablet OS to Android (which I have on my phone) and an inferior PC OS to Windows 7. Compromises usually work out that way.

I even understand those that do no want to give up XP. XP was the best Windows OS in my view because it provided more control over the computing environment than anything that followed. But I'm a computer literate power use and not typical of the folks for whom Vista was designed. For me Microsoft is moving further from what I want in a PC OS. We're debating features like metro rather than debating computing. On a basis of computing Win 8 is a step backward for me.

If you don't have a specific need for the Metro full-screen, "immersive" experience (I.E. tablet interface) you really don't need to have Win8 on a desktop machine. In my particular case I installed it for two reasons.

1) Several friends asked about it and I just wanted to see how well the final release would upgrade my development-oriented box.
2) I'm studying the Metro API and having the actual code running on the box is handy.

After having it for a week or so I can say that I'm generally pleased with the environment. I am, at least, in a position to observe the thing first-hand as it develops and, thankfully, it doesn't break anything important to me. So, my machine is for the most part still a Win7 box with extensions that stay out of the way if I don't want them. It's very functional, all my devices work and Microsoft has done a good job maintaining compatibility with the Win7 desktop, so what's the harm eh?

I've also found that I don't miss what's been removed from the desktop. The Start Button? Good grief ... if you can't get around that by tapping the "Win" button or hovering to the LLH corner and clicking then you don't need to be using a computer. It just ain't that hard. I thought I'd miss the screen "gadgets" but surprisingly enough I don't. It's really not that big a deal. The desktop isn't nearly as ugly as I originally thought it would be: I just needed to see it in a live machine environment and toss my themes at it. It really is fine.

To anyone that might ask, I just tell them that if they get a new box pre-loaded with Win8 to go ahead and go with it. If they already have a Win7 box they should stay put for now unless they're just curious or really do want the environment it provides.

We have all (myself included) been making a really big deal out of this when in practice it's turning out (to me at least) not to be such a big deal. The thing works. It's time to go do something else.

-Max

 

[Mystere]

Could be. We'll just have to see how the landscape looks in another 5 or 10 years. Perhaps we'll get to the point where our entire computing platform is on our pocket device and we just plug it into the "dock" when we get home, or into a tablet with a dock for the device.

This market is changing FAST.

Consider, the iPad was introduced in April 2010. That's right, only 2.5 years ago. Look how far things have changed since then.

To be fair, Microsoft has tried the tablet route a dozen times over the last 25 years, but apple finally came up with a formula that worked, and everyone has been moving at light speed ever since.

Consider the Surface Pro that will be out in the next few weeks. Here's the specs:

Screen size and resolution:	10.6 inches, 1,920x1,080
Dimensions (HWD):	10.81 x 6.81 x 0.53 inches
Weight:	2 pounds
CPU:	Intel Core i5
Memory:	4GB
Storage capacity:	64GB (128GB option)
Ports	USB 3.0, microSDXC, headphone, DisplayPort video out

That's a pretty impressive rig, even for a medium scale desktop. Add a little extra storage and a 27" monitor and it's as good as most desktops (hell, it's faster and more powerful than the desktop i'm on right now).

We will have tablets, and fairly soon I would bet, that have CPU's that sip power when on battery, but blaze when on AC power. Same with GPU's and other features. And this is not 10 years off, this is maybe 2-3 years at most.

Or how about this one? Kupa UltraNote Powerful Windows 8 PC Tablet Announced | Geeky Gadgets

A Core i7 Ivy Bridge, 8GB of RAM, 128GB SSD (plus SD card storage + USB storage). That's almost as powerful as my top of the line rig, with a 7 hour battery life!