Intel 'preparing' to put an end to user-replaceable CPUs

Yesterday, a report emerged claiming that Intel is planning to release its upcoming 14-nanometer Broadwell architecture processors as a ball grid array (BGA) rather than an land grid array (LGA) package.

This would have several widespread implications, including bringing to an end to processor (CPU) upgrades.

Traditionally, the processors in desktop systems are fitted into a socket on the motherboard that allows them to be removed and replaced, while systems such as notebooks and tablets have the CPU soldered onto the motherboard.

Read more at source:
Intel 'preparing' to put an end to user-replaceable CPUs | ZDNet
 
I mean I can understand pairing the motherboard Intel feels will best show off their own product but I feel this takes away the point of being able to pick your own parts. I'm not a computer custom builder but if I ever was I would want to choose ever part that I can. I don't want things that don't need to be put together, together. Doesn't even matter if you won't upgrade or you if you will, we should have a choice to choose. I don't get these companies trying to force us to play their game. The whole point of customizing your pc is to choose your own parts. I don't even care if I had to change next year, I don't want parts that I don't like stuck together with a part I do like. It's one thing if they approved which motherboards wouldn't break their processors but this is just crazy.


Thank you, That is exactly how I feel too. I want to know that if a part fails then I can replace it rather then having to replace the whole motherboard. These companies should be moving in the other direction like they were and not going back in time to what they used to do. From 2000 and back they pretty much always soldered processors to motherboards, it wasn't till around 2003 when they started making socket types. And now their saying they are going back. What a shame, this is a huge regression.
 

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The way computing is going, I'll be giving it up as a hobby, and only using computers if forced to.

When it stops being fun, or you can no longer do as you wish, what's the bloody point?

I'm not some dumbass content-consumer or social-network addict, nor do I want to be.

That isn't, wasn't and never will be what computing/computers mean to me.
 
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The absolute vast majority of end users don't care how their box is constructed, only that it does the job they want. When it no longer can do that job, they upgrade the entire box. So the concept of having the processor part of the motherboard isn't insane, we accept similar design in just about everything else. What would be a worry is that if Intel became a monopoly in this game and began to dictate to manufacturers and control prices more than they do now.

Also, looking at the diagram here:

43274642-152c-4de2-ab02-5b49621f736f.jpg

Could Haswell be Intel

What would it take an enterprising manufacturer to solder that chip onto an interface socket?
 
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The absolute vast majority of end users don't care how their box is constructed, only that it does the job they want. When it no longer can do that job, they upgrade the entire box. So the concept of having the processor part of the motherboard isn't insane, we accept similar design in just about everything else. What would be a worry is that if Intel became a monopoly in this game and began to dictate to manufacturers and control prices more than they do now.

Also, looking at the diagram here:

View attachment 12056

Could Haswell be Intel

What would it take an enterprising manufacturer to solder that chip onto an interface socket?

Yes.
Give me a good reason for the change. I don't see any positive point.
We were happy with sockets!

If AMD still provides sockets, then it can be a good reason for me to switch, and everyone is happy.
 

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Why don't we begin to solder the RAM as well?

4GB is enough for everybody...
(I don't think so...)

Just to show you where this path is going.

If something brakes (big yes! for manufacturters) we consumers just have to buy something new. New motherboard includes all stuff (equals waste).
 

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I mean I can understand pairing the motherboard Intel feels will best show off their own product but I feel this takes away the point of being able to pick your own parts. I'm not a computer custom builder but if I ever was I would want to choose ever part that I can. I don't want things that don't need to be put together, together. Doesn't even matter if you won't upgrade or you if you will, we should have a choice to choose. I don't get these companies trying to force us to play their game. The whole point of customizing your pc is to choose your own parts. I don't even care if I had to change next year, I don't want parts that I don't like stuck together with a part I do like. It's one thing if they approved which motherboards wouldn't break their processors but this is just crazy.


Thank you, That is exactly how I feel too. I want to know that if a part fails then I can replace it rather then having to replace the whole motherboard. These companies should be moving in the other direction like they were and not going back in time to what they used to do. From 2000 and back they pretty much always soldered processors to motherboards, it wasn't till around 2003 when they started making socket types. And now their saying they are going back. What a shame, this is a huge regression.

Hi there
C'mon guys

Get real

How many times have you EVER had a CPU fail on you. -- Not impossible but it's exceedingly rare -- and if it does get broken chances are the mobo won't be of much use either.

In any case the price of the integrated bundle will be a lot cheaper than separate ones now -- and who knows somebody will devise solderless connections for these CPU's if the demand is high enough.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Also, looking at the diagram here:

View attachment 12056

Could Haswell be Intel

What would it take an enterprising manufacturer to solder that chip onto an interface socket?

That's not nearly as easy as it sounds. Not and get a reliable connection on every contact point on a multilayer board ,without messing something up with all the heat required. Its a lot easier to solder a socket on the board from the back side than it would be to solder that CPU to the top side. Totally different process.
 

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Its a lot easier to solder a socket on the board from the back side than it would be to solder that CPU to the top side. Totally different process.

Interesting method, worth trying on one of my older laptops. In this case I take it you must first remove the original cpu. This method would be time consuming, I would much rather spend time using this method to upgrade the gpu instead, can it be done ? maybe not having a socket, but it is it possible to replace gpu through soldering ?
 

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Its a lot easier to solder a socket on the board from the back side than it would be to solder that CPU to the top side. Totally different process.

Interesting method, worth trying on one of my older laptops. In this case I take it you must first remove the original cpu. This method would be time consuming, I would much rather spend time using this method to upgrade the gpu instead, can it be done ? maybe not having a socket, but it is it possible to replace gpu through soldering ?

Maybe I better clarify what I was trying to say. I think you'll find that in most cases, the CPU's that are soldered in are the type with pins on the bottom. The same ones that can be put in a socket. Instead of soldering in a socket you just solder in the CPU directly to the motherboard. It's the same process as soldering in the socket. The pins pass though the motherboard and are soldered from the back side of the motherboard. The board is just floated on a pool of solder and all the components get soldered at once. The processor pictured above doesn't have pins and can't be soldered to the motherboard using the process I just described. You have to use a surface mount process. Usually, with that process the solder pads are around the perimeter of the chip, not under it.

I wouldn't attempt to remove a CPU socket or CPU itself with a regular soldering Iron. To remove multi pin sockets like that you use almost the same method used to install them. Only in this case you use a small solder pool that's only as big as the socket. You dip that spot of the motherboard from underneath to heat all the solder and then quickly remove the socket and drop in a new one. It's hard to describe but basically you have a little cup of molten solder that you put under the motherboard and then lay the motherboard on top of it so it just touches the liquid solder. You have to be quick to avoid damaging the motherboard and you can only do it so many times.
 

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Again this is not really about upgradability, it's about STOCKING and CHOICE.

Your right, AFTER the machine is built it is exceedingly rare to need to replace one part and not the other for any reason. Not /totally/ non-existent but pretty damn rare. HOWEVER. If you want to choose your MB and your processor from the start, those choices will be SEVERELY limited once the processors come pre soldered to the MB because no one will want to stock every single combination of the two.

Dell is guilty of this now but there are tons of places that give much better options.

I.e. A store or builder need only stock 10 cpus and 10 motherboards and you have up to 100 combinations to choose from. So 20 stock items == 100 choices. After soldering, you have to stock 100 items to provide the same choices and NO ONE is going to do that. :(
 

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Again this is not really about upgradability, it's about STOCKING and CHOICE.

Your right, AFTER the machine is built it is exceedingly rare to need to replace one part and not the other for any reason. Not /totally/ non-existent but pretty damn rare. HOWEVER. If you want to choose your MB and your processor from the start, those choices will be SEVERELY limited once the processors come pre soldered to the MB because no one will want to stock every single combination of the two.

Dell is guilty of this now but there are tons of places that give much better options.

I.e. A store or builder need only stock 10 cpus and 10 motherboards and you have up to 100 combinations to choose from. So 20 stock items == 100 choices. After soldering, you have to stock 100 items to provide the same choices and NO ONE is going to do that. :(

Hi there


C'mon you're from the US -- the spiritual home of "If we build a better Mousetrap people will come".

If this thing ever hits the light of day you'll always be able to get a better deal.

Don't get misled by this type of stuff.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Also, looking at the diagram here:

View attachment 12056

Could Haswell be Intel

What would it take an enterprising manufacturer to solder that chip onto an interface socket?

That's not nearly as easy as it sounds. Not and get a reliable connection on every contact point on a multilayer board ,without messing something up with all the heat required. Its a lot easier to solder a socket on the board from the back side than it would be to solder that CPU to the top side. Totally different process.

Why can't that CPU (if that's how they will be sold to manufacturers) be soldered in the same way to a surface mount circuit board that simply emulates the current crop of socket mount CPUs ie pins on the other side, rather than the motherboard itself?
 

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Also, looking at the diagram here:

View attachment 12056

Could Haswell be Intel

What would it take an enterprising manufacturer to solder that chip onto an interface socket?

That's not nearly as easy as it sounds. Not and get a reliable connection on every contact point on a multilayer board ,without messing something up with all the heat required. Its a lot easier to solder a socket on the board from the back side than it would be to solder that CPU to the top side. Totally different process.

Why can't that CPU (if that's how they will be sold to manufacturers) be soldered in the same way to a surface mount circuit board that simply emulates the current crop of socket mount CPUs ie pins on the other side, rather than the motherboard itself?

I'm not saying it can't be done. I just don't think its easy process for that particular CPU type, and could end up being more expensive than just adding a socket. But I've been out of the loop for a few years now so I could be wrong.
http://www.eightforums.com/windows-...t-end-user-replaceable-cpus-3.html#post151179
 

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From what I have read, it seems that Intel is going after the mobile market with these new SOC chips. Just like MS with Win 8. The desktop is playing 2nd fiddle.

Jim :cool:
 

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Why not solder the RAM on the board as well? Since Intel makes all the chipests (and those become more and more part of the CPU anyway with memory controller, graphics etc. on CPU) There isn't so much real life difference between so many MB anyway. It is mostly marketing. The CPU and Southbridge are from Intel anyway, there isn't so much left nowadays for normal PCs.

I always built my own PC and in theory would have been able to upgrade the CPU, but never did because after 3-4 years when a new CPU would have boon good, everything else on the MB was outdated as well.

the problem will be stocking. but the large manufactures let the MB manufacture anyway, and online stores still will have enough choices. sure it will limit the number of boards/CPUs to chose from. But do I really need 35 different CPUs and 18 MB from just one manufacturer for that socket? when I buy a car I get 2-3 motors to chose from for each type.
a budget board woudl be sold with celeron/Pentium/i3. Premium boards with i5/i7. In theory there are more options, but do people really need to combine a $200 MB with a $50 Celeron?
 

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Intel can kiss my royal Canadian butt. I strictly use AMD, and always will. And no, contrary to rumours heard in some dark corners of the internet, AMD is not abandoning the x86 or x64 market. Indeed, they just released the fx-8350, which is a damn fine chip.
 

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From what I have read, it seems that Intel is going after the mobile market with these new SOC chips. Just like MS with Win 8. The desktop is playing 2nd fiddle.


The "desktop" as we know it is currently being phased out for the vast majority of consumer and enterprise applications, thanks to a combination of BYOD, distributed computing and improvements to VDI. Apple, too, is considering SoC for their PC and notebook models. Furthermore, we have products like the desktop dock for the Galaxy Note II which provide USB and HDMI connections for mice, keyboards and displays, so a person can dock their mobile device and open up a remote desktop session to a hosted workstation. Companies like Intel and Microsoft aren't working in a vacuum.

Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
 

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First and foremost, at least from Intel's point of view, is that this move puts the chip giant in an even more commanding position, allowing it greater control over the motherboard market. More control means more money.

I call this a monopoly flat out, and it goes against every anti trust law that was ever created. And with statements like this they might was well sue themselves because it's just a matter of time before someone else does.

No, it is not a monopoly or fall under anti-trust law. Please look them up. You still have choices.
While they may be able to control the prices of there own products, they won't control the price of AMD or other competitors that may come along.

While it doesn't seen that Intel wants to cut existing motherboard makers out of the equation just yet, sources I have spoken to seem to be worried that this could happen in the mid-to-long-term.

I won't get into the fact that this move offers ZERO advantage to the consumers who have supported Intel over the years.

This is about cooperate take over of the entire PC industry, they don't like people being able to build their own machines because that removes money from their till and I'm certain this has something to do with hurting sales of OEM machines, which to me is tough luck for company's like HP who sell nothing but cheap substandard Chinese made POS.

No, they can not take over the entire PC industry. That is impossible with AMD in existence.
The OEM's can make their own choices of weather to carry Intel products or not. If I start a business building PC's, I can choose to only use AMD exclusively. Intel can not force me to sell their product.

This statement proves my point:
As far as the PC OEMs are concerned, killing off the PC upgrade market would be a good thing because it would push people to buy new PCs rather than upgrade their existing hardware. The PC industry is currently stagnant, partly because consumers and enterprise are making existing hardware last longer.

I'm sure they hope that this move will kill the PC home building industry, what they don't realize is that it will end up hurting sales from many thousands of home PC builders and this market is bigger than some people think.
The casualties of this move will be upgraders and PC 'modders', the huge market that exists around them. While not many people bother to upgrade their PCs, instead choosing to buy a new one, the market is large enough to support countless manufacturers and vendors. This move by Intel would be the final nail in the coffin for this industry, taking down a number of players. This, unfortunately, would have a corresponding knock-on effect on jobs.

Of course there will still be enthusiast boards with high end CPU's already installed and other high end hardware but having Intel control all that is where the anti trust laws will be broken.

Only so much as if AMD follows suit. This is why Microsoft has never been a monopoly either, even though many want to scream that from the roof tops, they are so wrong, it make 2+2=3 seem legit.


mo·nop·o·ly
[muh-nop-uh-lee] noun, plural mo·nop·o·lies.

1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.

You can argue Duopoly and Oligopoly.....

2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.

Such as Ma Bell

3. the exclusive possession or control of something.

Which neither Intel or AMD control

************


an·ti·trust

adjective
opposing or intended to restrain trusts, monopolies, or other large combinations of business and capital, especially with a view to maintaining and promoting competition.

Something that Intel is not trying to do here. Which Microsoft, I believe was guilty of in the 90's with the OEM's.
By preventing OEM's from installing or providing support for OS's like OS/2 and Linux, if I recall.
Now it is up to the OEM's iof they want to provide that support, they are not obligated to do so.


Let me also add this.... If a widget maker makes something that I can produce cheaper, they can not control the fact that I can sell my item for much cheaper than theirs. However, if I can produce it at about the same cost and I sell it at a loss, under cutting the competition to drive them out of business just so I can raise it again later, that is under cutting.

The difference between Fair Trade and Free Trade is....

Fair Trade means I can produce a better product, but can not sell it for more than the competition

Free Trade means I can build a better product and ask the price that I believe is fitting and still be able to sell it.

Fair Trade = Govt control of pricing......

Free Trade = Consumer control of pricing....


and On a final note,,, at the end of the day,, Intel can do what they want... If people decide to stop giving them their money they go out of business. The dollar you don't give to a company has much more profound effect on any said company/industry than any regulations could ever hope to. That goes for any industry.
You just have to be willing to live without their products. ... If you can't,, don't handsome frog about it.

One last note.... Free Trade and Healthy Competition will always,, Always produce better products and a more prosperous society.
 

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^^^

Given that AMD has said that they are finished competing with intel and concentrating on lower end CPUs for cheap hardware and mobile devices, they have pretty much handed Intel an environment for monopoly and created a situation where Intel could very well manipulate prices. This move is a possible example of them manipulating choice and dictating an environment that benefits them more than their customers now that AMD is on it's way out as a choice for desktop machines. (Could be gone entirely by 2015, we'll see what Intel is like then)
 

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^^^

Given that AMD has said that they are finished competing with intel and concentrating on lower end CPUs for cheap hardware and mobile devices, they have pretty much handed Intel an environment for monopoly and created a situation where Intel could very well manipulate prices. This move is a possible example of them manipulating choice and dictating an environment that benefits them more than their customers now that AMD is on it's way out as a choice for desktop machines. (Could be gone entirely by 2015, we'll see what Intel is like then)

On the other hand, however, ARM is working on chips powerful enough for the data centre, so I don't think the picture is as bleak as some would like to paint it.
 

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