Did MS just kill the Windows oem market ?

the core Windows 8 looks to be a rockin’ OS, but layered with awkward Metro weirdness...

...a big middle finger pointed straight at the likes of Acer, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, HP, and all the other nice little companies who’ve — you know — paid Microsoft’s freight all these long years.


Quite honestly, this is as baffling as New Coke was to Coca Cola consumers worldwide.

I do wonder whether they can sustain shooting themselves in the foot too many times before we wind up in a self-inflicted post-PC world.

Okay, let me get this straight. Did Microsoft just kill the Windows tablet OEM market? | ZDNet

 

[stefalopod]

--go into a pub and drink some proper Beer.

Cheers! I think people who don't like beer just haven't drunk enough of it. I mean, I didn't like it when I was eleven, but by the time I was 21, I knew it was the right stuff! Besides, it's better for you than the "bog standard" in most of the places I've traveled

I don't think it'll be so easy to get rid of the OEMs, and I expect that MS wouldn't want to. Anyway, I'm not sure that's really going down the right path to just assume that whatever hardware Microsoft makes will necessarily be better than what the OEMs are making. That argument seems a little fuzzy to me, but you folks might be able to enlighten me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Colonel Travis]

Not much on learning from your mistakes, are you?

This is funny. See, here I am doing exactly what you requested we all do for you - respond directly to what you wrote. And it doesn't matter to you. You don't reciprocate, just blow it all off (again.) It's not hard to do. Wanna see how easy it is? I quote something you say - like I did above - and specifically address it. What's the point of quoting everything I just typed to you if you ignore it? You just show me what I wrote (gee, I remember doing that because I wrote it) and say I'm not learning from my mistakes, whatever the hell that means. Does that mean the same thing as "fanboy"? Because you back it up with just as much, and by "much" I mean "nothing." It's easy for me to say I like clarity because I actually believe it, and if I'm not clear I own up to the mistake of not being clear. As for other possible mistakes, I don't know what the hell you're talking about because you're as clear as mud. It's not just with me, it's with other people. Sometimes you thump down several comments in one giant brick of a quote that nobody reads because we all read it the first time it was written, in order to "prove" your point, which you don't prove because all you're doing is insulting people. Not all the time. But sometimes.

Practice what you preach. <-------------Read this. I know you said you aren't gonna read stuff, and there's a 95% chance that you skipped the big huge paragraph above this one and thrown it out the window, so you may not know entirely what I'm referring to in this sentence, which is the context problem you ran into with the New Coke reference, but behind that arrow I made at the beginning of this paragraph are only four words, I think you can handle four words if you've made it this far, although I seriously wonder if you have.

 

[crawfish]

Not much on learning from your mistakes, are you?

This is funny. See, here I am doing exactly what you requested we all do for you - respond directly to what you wrote. And it doesn't matter to you. You don't reciprocate, just blow it all off (again.)

All you do is respond with endless guff. I gave you some good advice a couple of messages ago. Either you'll take it and apply it or you won't.

 

[Colonel Travis]

Guff? The only thing you do is this:

Not much on learning from your mistakes, are you?

This is funny. See, here I am doing exactly what you requested we all do for you - respond directly to what you wrote. And it doesn't matter to you. You don't reciprocate, just blow it all off (again.)

All you do is respond with endless guff. I gave you some good advice a couple of messages ago. Either you'll take it and apply it or you won't.

And then you finish it off with a statement that has zero to do with what you quoted. Correction - this isn't exactly what you do, because I'm actually making a point here. And that point is showing what you do, which is not making a point except that you can apparently find the Quote button with your eyes closed.

You don't properly read and you don't properly respond. You're not anywhere close to the standard you set for everyone else. I keep hammering your "fanboy" response to Bill because you didn't respond to what Bill had just said. You responded to a bunch of stuff before that and then lumped his new criticisms (which you blew off) with his previous ones.

Who wrote this:

I've responded directly to things that have been said in this thread, things that stand on their own. Will you try to do the same when you reply to me?

That was you - after not responding directly to Bill and in the middle of not responding directly to anything I wrote to you.

You want another specific, concrete example from this thread that backs up what I saying about you? I could pick out a ton but I'm gonna stick to just one.

You wrote there is no "oncoming rush of people eager to dump their iPads and buy something from Microsoft." Where did you get this "fact"? Show me proof of this, other than you pulled it out of your sweet pattootie? You may be right. I really don't know. You backed up that statement with no concrete evidence. This is how you back up something like that:

Microsoft's Surface tablet no threat to Apple's iPad

But even a link like that isn't truly concrete evidence - it's concrete supposition. That's all you're doing, except you're using no one else's say-so except your own. Sometimes you go into detail with your answers. But not once in this thread do you use any source other than your own tap-tap-tapping at your keyboard to back up anything you say. The only time you inserted a link was to something that you wrote in this forum three weeks ago! And because you don't read, you couldn't even give proper criticism to me like FSeal did. He read the ZDNet story therefore he said - I think he was referring to Metro. And then I responded to him, and there were no insults and that was the end of it. You, on the other hand and for some bizarre reason, keep typing nonsense, while accusing me of the one peddling nonsense, except I'm the one explaining to you - using the very non-nonsensical formula you support - how nonsensical you're being. Unfreakingbelievable. I've been pointing out specifically how you don't follow your own rules and you apparently don't even know it, and I find that comical.

If you want to respond to this, fine. But I dare you to not quote the entire thing in one big chunk.

 

[alphanumeric]

Clicks thread tools and selects "unsubscribe from this thread".

 

[BillWindows]

You quoted that comment and replied to me to defend the poster who said those ridiculous things, and you rather strongly implied I had compared the Surface to New Coke or was supporting that argument, which is completely false and a strange thing to say.

crawfish - when I wrote "you" in that response, I was referring to "you" in the general sense, not you, crawfish. If you (crawfish) had read the link, which is the reason this thread exists, then you (crawfish) might have figured it out because it's obvious you (crawfish) weren't talking about New Coke or anything else I brought up in that comment.

Nonetheless, I obviously wasn't following my own rule about clarity. But if you (specifically and generally) want to be on the same page when talking about stuff, can you put some effort on your end, too, and actually read the links people put here? They put them in for a reason.

Even though Bill and I disagree about Metro, I respect Bill's opinion because he's got a lot of computer knowledge. He said he can't find but 100 good apps out of 500,000 for his iPad, and that it crashes and for that you call him a fanboy? That doesn't make any sense. His good app ratio, by the way, is higher than the ratio for me and Android. I use about 40, and of those 40 I use maybe 10 daily. The other 499,960 are garbage to me. Mine also locks up. I've got the same freaking complaints - so if MS (or anyone else) can build a better tablet I'm very interested.

Thanks for trying to help Colonel, just one word of advice, it's no good keeping on hitting your head against a brick wall. Better off just stating your case and leaving it at that. Like I've said before I've got no special interest in Microsoft apart from the fact that I like using their OS. There are things I don't like about Windows 8, but I understand that MS has been pushed into a corner and needs to reinvent themselves.

Saying stupid things like MS is just doing this to upset people is beyond ridiculous. One thing I've learnt over the years is that the biggest danger to Microsoft is Microsoft users, not Apple users, not Linux users, but MS users. Change one little thing and they're up in arms.

I used ME for years and found it much better than Windows 98 on several computers, not just one, no crashes no freezing, nothing. Same with Vista on a capable computer, not a 10 year old one. Yet all we hear is Windows users complaining, and of course all this complaining spills over onto the net where I spend a lot of time. Apple fanboys pick up on this complaining and spread it around and throw it back in our faces in a never ending circle, go and have a look at a few forums on the net and you'll see what I mean.
I said a couple of days ago that Tech bloggers would start ripping Surface apart, it's happening already, same with the Windows 8 phone.

What makes it even worse, you come to a Windows website and you hear all the same rubbish, so I'm going to have another break for a couple of weeks, the negativity is disheartening.
Thanks again Colonel, take it easy and like I said, don't keep knocking yourself out.

 

[crawfish]

Okay, let me get this straight. Did Microsoft just kill the Windows tablet OEM market? | ZDNet

The founder of Acer seems to think it's all some sort of elaborate hoax:

Microsoft Surface just a ploy to sell Windows 8, says Acer founder
Shih told DigiTimes he believes Microsoft is unlikely to take a real stab at competing with Android and the iPad because the costs related to hardware manufacture yield far less profit than the company's tried-and-true software licensing business model.
...
Shih said that vendors should take a positive view of Microsoft's plan as it can be seen as essentially free advertising.

So, don't worry, be happy, I guess? Microsoft has got the OEMs' back. If Shih is not just a retired, foolish old man and is on to something, and Microsoft produces these things in a half-hearted way, well, that would just be further evidence of its corporate dementia.

 

[SIW2]

Thanks - interesting read.

 

[FuturDreamz]

Okay, let me get this straight. Did Microsoft just kill the Windows tablet OEM market? | ZDNet

The founder of Acer seems to think it's all some sort of elaborate hoax:

Microsoft Surface just a ploy to sell Windows 8, says Acer founder
Shih told DigiTimes he believes Microsoft is unlikely to take a real stab at competing with Android and the iPad because the costs related to hardware manufacture yield far less profit than the company's tried-and-true software licensing business model.
...
Shih said that vendors should take a positive view of Microsoft's plan as it can be seen as essentially free advertising.

So, don't worry, be happy, I guess? Microsoft has got the OEMs' back. If Shih is not just a retired, foolish old man and is on to something, and Microsoft produces these things in a half-hearted way, well, that would just be further evidence of its corporate dementia.

That does make sense. Microsoft has not indicated that the Surface will get exclusive features, and it's unlikely that Microsoft could push unrealistic prices. All OEM tablets should be identical, if not better or cheaper (but hopefully not crappier).

 

[stefalopod]

Acer founder Stan Shih on Wednesday referred to Microsoft's recently-announced Surface tablet as merely a tool to boost adoption of Windows 8, saying that the Redmond-based company has no real intention to enter the hardware game.

If this is true, then you can bet Microsoft won't be putting a lot of cash into a dedicated Surface support environment. ...no Microsoft Surface help desk next door to your apple store.

I had my doubts about ongoing support for the Surfance anyhow, and that's reason enough for me to stay loyal to a reputable OEM.

 

[FSeal]

Acer founder Stan Shih on Wednesday referred to Microsoft's recently-announced Surface tablet as merely a tool to boost adoption of Windows 8, saying that the Redmond-based company has no real intention to enter the hardware game.

If this is true, then you can bet Microsoft won't be putting a lot of cash into a dedicated Surface support environment. ...no Microsoft Surface help desk next door to your apple store.

I had my doubts about ongoing support for the Surfance anyhow, and that's reason enough for me to stay loyal to a reputable OEM.

That Acer quote is completely backwards. Seems almost delusional. It's pretty obvious that the entire point of forcing Metro on the desktop is to get everyone used to the interface so they'll WANT to buy win8 tablets and phones. :/ Metro is so NOT a desktop interface it's existance there is completely baffling until you consider the tablet/phone strategy.

But I guess as the CEO of a tablet competitor it might make him sleep better at night having that little fantasy...

 

[crawfish]

Acer founder Stan Shih on Wednesday referred to Microsoft's recently-announced Surface tablet as merely a tool to boost adoption of Windows 8, saying that the Redmond-based company has no real intention to enter the hardware game.

If this is true, then you can bet Microsoft won't be putting a lot of cash into a dedicated Surface support environment. ...no Microsoft Surface help desk next door to your apple store.

I had my doubts about ongoing support for the Surfance anyhow, and that's reason enough for me to stay loyal to a reputable OEM.

That Acer quote is completely backwards. Seems almost delusional. It's pretty obvious that the entire point of forcing Metro on the desktop is to get everyone used to the interface so they'll WANT to buy win8 tablets and phones. :/ Metro is so NOT a desktop interface it's existance there is completely baffling until you consider the tablet/phone strategy.

But I guess as the CEO of a tablet competitor it might make him sleep better at night having that little fantasy...

Like I said, Shih is retired, and be may just be a foolish old man. My point was that if he's right, what does that say about Microsoft? Are they really going to the trouble of creating these awkward things intending all along for them to fail? How crazy would that be? If the Microsoft Surface isn't a big seller, that's a huge black eye to Microsoft, because it puts an exclamation point on the fact that they're not Apple, and no one wants a tablet from them. If it sells big, it doesn't help OEMs because it competes with them. If it doesn't sell big, it doesn't help OEMs in the Shih sense, and it kills Microsoft. I read the Surface as more desperation from Microsoft, which is suffering from corporate dementia or psychosis induced by losing the mobile market.

 

[FSeal]

If this is true, then you can bet Microsoft won't be putting a lot of cash into a dedicated Surface support environment. ...no Microsoft Surface help desk next door to your apple store.

I had my doubts about ongoing support for the Surfance anyhow, and that's reason enough for me to stay loyal to a reputable OEM.

That Acer quote is completely backwards. Seems almost delusional. It's pretty obvious that the entire point of forcing Metro on the desktop is to get everyone used to the interface so they'll WANT to buy win8 tablets and phones. :/ Metro is so NOT a desktop interface it's existance there is completely baffling until you consider the tablet/phone strategy.

But I guess as the CEO of a tablet competitor it might make him sleep better at night having that little fantasy...

Like I said, Shih is retired, and be may just be a foolish old man. My point was that if he's right, what does that say about Microsoft? Are they really going to the trouble of creating these awkward things intending all along for them to fail? How crazy would that be? If the Microsoft Surface isn't a big seller, that's a huge black eye to Microsoft, because it puts an exclamation point on the fact that they're not Apple, and no one wants a tablet from them. If it sells big, it doesn't help OEMs because it competes with them. If it doesn't sell big, it doesn't help OEMs in the Shih sense, and it kills Microsoft. I read the Surface as more desperation from Microsoft, which is suffering from corporate dementia or psychosis induced by losing the mobile market.

I think there may be a lot of truth to that

 

[jimbo45]

Acer founder Stan Shih on Wednesday referred to Microsoft's recently-announced Surface tablet as merely a tool to boost adoption of Windows 8, saying that the Redmond-based company has no real intention to enter the hardware game.

If this is true, then you can bet Microsoft won't be putting a lot of cash into a dedicated Surface support environment. ...no Microsoft Surface help desk next door to your apple store.

I had my doubts about ongoing support for the Surfance anyhow, and that's reason enough for me to stay loyal to a reputable OEM.

C'mon guys -- Customer support -- usuallly means a HORRIBLE experience navigating endless loops on Telephone automated systems and when you finally (often after 20 mins or so --if you have enough patience) reach a "Real Human" it's often a hapless lowly worker in an Indian call center who has a script to read and if your question doesn't fall into their category they just mouth over and over again "I'm very sorry but we can't do anything about it". Asking for their Boss / supervisor just elicits the same imbecilic response too.

Try going into your neigbourhood supermarket and say the Bank screwed up =-- can I pay you next week. !!

I was nearly in MEGA trouble in Brussels this weekend -- for better or worse I had a Nat West card (A UK Bank card) -- and what happened when I had to pay a Hotel Bill -- the whole system was down for some reason or other (actually I DO know the reason why but if I were to express this in a public forum I'd be banned )

But you can get my drift espicially if you work in I.T ) -- so I was stuck -- I had a nice large Bank balance -- even BEFORE the problems this week with their system and that was BEFORE my June contract payment should have been paid into the Bank) so I technically had no way of paying my hotel unless I had a whole wodge of cash stashed away.

After repeated calls to the Call center all I got was "We are are really sorry etc etc" -- and when I suggested to the call center person -- "Well can't you authorize the cards untiil your I.T dept have fixed the problems" -- same automated response from the Indian person in the call center "" Oh dear --were are very sorry -- etc " but of course no solution in sight for a mistake that was TOTALLY outside the control of the customer

. I suppose it was too difficult for some I.T guys on upwards of 900 EUR a day (probably on a contract from "Accidenture") to fix the system quickly to allow effected customers to either get their cards authorized or allow temporary withdrwals from Cash machines.

Banks are quick enough to react when YOU are late with payments. !!

Thank GOD the days of off shored call centres are numbered as the new method of "Internet online chat" works fantastically well.
Ms isn't stupid -- the support will be there but fortunately in a far better way than "Off shored call centres" whose time has come for them to bow out quickly.

I think for all the perceived problems of Ms they will actually be one of the first major companies in 21 st century to actually start reviving the idea of "Proper Customer Support" whatever it costs . And it's also good for the company -- since they will make mega certain that the number of times customer support is needed will be minimal -- and to do this they will have to improve their QC (Quality Control) no end. !!

Cheers
jimbo

 

[stefalopod]

C'mon guys -- Customer support -- usuallly means a HORRIBLE experience navigating endless loops on Telephone automated systems...

That's why I like to vote with my money. I just don't buy from companies that don't offer good service.

I started a warranty claim with Nokia once two days before the manufacturer warranty expired. They sent me a packet to mail my phone to them, and I sent the phone well after the expiration of the warranty. I got a new phone back from them and the whole business probably didn't take me more than about 40 minutes -- that's including the time I spent looking up the contact information, and didn't cost me a dime.

When my dell laptop speakers stopped working, I wrote a note on their website, and it scheduled a real person to come out to my house with the parts -- I didn't even have to mail them my computer. This was two years after I bought the laptop, yes the service plan costs money, but it's money well spent to my mind.

My HP printer wouldn't calibrate, so I called HP. They sent me a new printer (with all it's inks and cables) and didn't even ask for the old one back.

When my 2007 Mini Copper's transmission started going wonky a month and a half after the warranty expired, my service rep called BMW and got them to give me a new clutch and fly wheel. Give me, a new clutch. I didn't even have to pay for the labor.

There's still plenty of great service out there in the world.

I don't know what the Surface support environment will be like yet, and I definitely won't be one of the guinea pigs that finds out.

 

[legacy7955]

I read the Surface as more desperation from Microsoft, which is suffering from corporate dementia or psychosis induced by losing the mobile market.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[FuturDreamz]

Microsoft Surface is the baseline. If your company's tablet is not as good, it's not worth selling.

I still stand by this being the reason.

 

[SIW2]

Microsoft apparently found the OEM landscape for Windows 8 tablets so bleak that it had to build its own.

 

[Dellius]

It does seem like they are deliberately trying to kill the Desktop PC.

A conspiracy theorist might say that the Corporations and Governments, have got tired of the peasants not following orders.

The "conspiracy" against the Desktop is no conspiracy at all, as it was publically announced in the mid-90's that YES, Microsoft AND the OEM's all want the Desktop dead as a multifunctional versatile platform, and there were even interviews with them in the papers, where they outlined their vision for the future of the electronic world.

-Consoles or disc players for home entertainment. Games, movies, music - all go there. You have a TV for that.
-Laptops remain as a solution for mobile users for OFFICE work, not games, not anything else.
-Desktops, well, they will stay at the top of your desk and will be used for office work exclusively.

This is how the vision for the future was outlined publicly, and not secretly. It was told in plain, simple words, but no one paid any attention to it, because, you know, it was the Era of the Desktop, with Moore's Law doubling CPU power as predicted and the public dismissed those things as stupid.

We are almost 2013 now. Let's see how things have developed over this almost 20-yr period since the announcement was made.

-Smart TV's allow you to browse Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and a few more approved and selected sites.
-Smart TV's let you do your movie streaming directly from the Internet onto the TV.
-Consoles also serve as Disc players and make the TV with its 7.1 Surround Sound the center of home entertainment for everything.
-Desktops no longer double their processing power, get insane amounts of crippling DRM, and a tablet OS with costly codecs.
-Desktop games no longer get dramatic improvements to their gfx, playstyle or whatever, thanks to the DRM thing.
-Desktop advancements have basically come to almost a halt in terms of entertainment, while consoles keep catching up.

Plot against the Desktop ? Yes. Conspiracy ? Hardly, as it was actually announced, but no one took it seriously at the time.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I'm not sure I agree with all of those points.

Moore's Law is still holding true.

Most articles I read say that consoles are underpowered pieces of junk, compared to PCs.
They are non-upgradable and even more locked down (Sony and MS have deliberately "bricked" people's consoles).

The computer games review show I watch, always makes a point of mentioning that the PC versions of games are better in every important way (controls and graphics).