Did MS just kill the Windows oem market ?

the core Windows 8 looks to be a rockin’ OS, but layered with awkward Metro weirdness...

...a big middle finger pointed straight at the likes of Acer, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, HP, and all the other nice little companies who’ve — you know — paid Microsoft’s freight all these long years.


Quite honestly, this is as baffling as New Coke was to Coca Cola consumers worldwide.

I do wonder whether they can sustain shooting themselves in the foot too many times before we wind up in a self-inflicted post-PC world.

Okay, let me get this straight. Did Microsoft just kill the Windows tablet OEM market? | ZDNet

 

[crawfish]

Crawfish I deal in facts

 

[Coke Robot]

Crawfish I deal in facts

Looks like someone might be a trollin'!

 

[crawfish]

So, I have a question. It seems some of your gripes about Windows 8 seem to be about a superfluously redesigned UI that threw out a lot of what you knew, about 20 years or so.

That summary is neither accurate nor fair. I've gone into considerable detail in multiple posts over several months describing why the Start Menu/desktop were always inadequate as a primary program launcher/organizer, why the Windows 7 taskbar was a great innovation, and I've given numerous reason why Metro sucks, including listing various interface design principles it discards and bad practices it adopts, likening it to running Hotwire on my Atari ST circa 1988, etc.

Do you happen have a smartphone of any kind?

No, but I've had a 4th generation iPod Touch for almost two years now.

Also, a word about the Music app, that's an interim crap app just to give a taste.

That's what people were saying about the last release. As for giving "a taste", it makes no sense at all to give such a bad one. This is the "Release Preview" you're talking about, and Windows 8 is launching in the fall. I wouldn't expect many changes.

 

[crawfish]

Crawfish I deal in facts

Looks like someone might be a trollin'!

Laughing at ludicrous claims isn't "trolling".

 

[Coke Robot]

Also, a word about the Music app, that's an interim crap app just to give a taste.

That's what people were saying about the last release. As for giving "a taste", it makes no sense at all to give such a bad one. This is the "Release Preview" you're talking about, and Windows 8 is launching in the fall. I wouldn't expect many changes.

E3 2012: Xbox Music - YouTube
Then what's this preposterous thing?

 

[Colonel Travis]

Laughing at ludicrous claims isn't "trolling".

C'mon, now. I gotta back Bill here and agree with just about everything he's said. The only way you could compare the Surface to New Coke is if MS didn't allow anyone to build tablets like Apple does. New Coke replaced old Coke. That's not what's happening here. Who is MS locking out? If MS ends up building the best tablet of anyone, you just screwed yourself, OEMs.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Please.....

People aren't made out of money. Once the realization sets in that something new has come to the block that does more than a 500 dollar ipad is capable of, simple deduction and economics falls into place.

Beta was (allegedly) superior to VHS.

 

[SIW2]

I can't understand why people are disputing it.

There is no doubt at all the oem's will be very unhappy.

They have good reason to be.

The question is - will it be worth it to MS to have annoyed their "partners".

It is a gamble . Time will tell.


MS have also managed to alienate a large proportion of their existing users - there is no possible advantage MS will gain from that. It was not necessary. It is a big mistake.

 

[area 66]

MS have also managed to alienate a large proportion of their existing users - there is no possible advantage MS will gain from that. It was not necessary. It is a big mistake.

You resume well the citation.

 

[FSeal]

Laughing at ludicrous claims isn't "trolling".

C'mon, now. I gotta back Bill here and agree with just about everything he's said. The only way you could compare the Surface to New Coke is if MS didn't allow anyone to build tablets like Apple does. New Coke replaced old Coke. That's not what's happening here. Who is MS locking out? If MS ends up building the best tablet of anyone, you just screwed yourself, OEMs.

Actually the new coke comment seemed to be more aimed at the OS itself rather than the tablet. And in that case, it's a perfect fit. New Windows is replacing Old Windows and it's going to have the same effect for a lot of people... :/

 

[crawfish]

Also, a word about the Music app, that's an interim crap app just to give a taste.

That's what people were saying about the last release. As for giving "a taste", it makes no sense at all to give such a bad one. This is the "Release Preview" you're talking about, and Windows 8 is launching in the fall. I wouldn't expect many changes.

E3 2012: Xbox Music - YouTube
Then what's this preposterous thing?

Based on the fleeting screen shots in the video, it looks like the Windows 8 Music app. Differences I can see include the "xbox music" label, Smart DJ, some social features, and that it's running on a tablet, smart phone, and TV. I didn't see a computer, so I don't know what this has to do with Windows 8, a computer OS. I guess it could replace the Music app that comes with Windows 8, though I would be surprised if Windows 8 comes OOTB with something branded "xbox", yet it would be confusing to name the same app two different things depending on what's running it. Maybe it'll be like Windows Live apps replacing Photo Gallery and Movie Maker. As for Smart DJ and the social features, I never used them when I had a Zune, and I couldn't care less about them. In the Xbox app, It looks like Microsoft is continuing to give ads equal billing with your music in the infinitely scrolling roll, and everything I hate about the Windows Music app will remain intact. FWIW, I gave a brief critique of Zune based on my experience owning one of each generation in this message, and I explained some of the things that are important to me in that message and my follow-up to your reply in that thread. This new Music app manages to make things even more offensive with its in-your-face ads, and they completely wrecked the interface. It's hard to believe, but they've made something even worse than the Zune software. As I keep saying, it's hard to comprehend the depth and breadth of Microsoft's fail in its Windows HE project.

 

[crawfish]

Laughing at ludicrous claims isn't "trolling".

C'mon, now. I gotta back Bill here and agree with just about everything he's said. The only way you could compare the Surface to New Coke is if MS didn't allow anyone to build tablets like Apple does. New Coke replaced old Coke. That's not what's happening here. Who is MS locking out? If MS ends up building the best tablet of anyone, you just screwed yourself, OEMs.

Actually the new coke comment seemed to be more aimed at the OS itself rather than the tablet. And in that case, it's a perfect fit. New Windows is replacing Old Windows and it's going to have the same effect for a lot of people... :/

I don't know why the Colonel replied with that to me, as I didn't even know "New Coke" had been mentioned in this thread. However, when presented with a ludicrous analogy concerning Windows 8, I did once suggest that "New Coke" would be a more apt one, but that was three weeks ago in a different thread, and the Colonel certainly wasn't talking about that. And New Coke actually is a good analogy with Windows HE, as analogies go. Coke was reacting desperately to Pepsi gaining market share, so they threw out their successful product and replaced it with one they believed captured the sweetness they imagined their customers preferred, based on the rising popularity of Pepsi. Observing its irrelevance in the mobile market is Microsoft's desperation, Windows HE is the New Coke, and the attempted convergence between its successful desktop/laptop OS and irrelevancy in the mobile market is the sweetness, except it really isn't, and the analogy breaks down here, as analogies often do. With Pepsi, the sweetness already existed. Microsoft is trying to create its sweetness out of thin air, as Apple hasn't tried to merge a refrigerator with a toaster, and Microsoft at least has the sense to recognize it can't out-Apple Apple. The problem is, Windows HE doesn't make any sense on desktops or even laptops, and this is ultimately going to hurt new PC sales, as people aren't going to want to be forced to switch to Windows HE, and we're back to the New Coke situation again. The main reaction is going to be, "Do. Not. Want. - I hate the New Windows, give me the good Windows." (Now cue the redundant fanboy reactions about "fearing change", which I've already addressed elsewhere.)

 

[stefalopod]

I don't know, I think there's more to the OEM thing that just Microsoft having made a pretty tablet. For a lot of people who don't build their own machines there's a fairly high degree of brand loyalty with OEMs. That may have to do with the perceived fast or sleekness of the machine -- Vaio, the quality of the support you can buy -- Dell, the brand's availability in local stores like best buy and Costco -- HP and Fujitsu, ...and there has to be some reason people bought ugly Intel bricks, although I don't know what it is. I don't feel that Microsoft has a toehold in any of these areas.

Did you have an Xbox with a red ring of death? How was your service? Did you have to pay to get it fixed? Did you end up buying a new one? Did you buy a new Lumia phone? I hear Microsoft will only be offering support for windows phone 7.8 for 18 months before they kill it off. Did you like Vista? How about Me?

No, Microsoft isn't a brand that inspires a lot of warm fuzzies.

I would have to know a lot about the service I could expect before I bought a pricy Microsoft branded machine. And I would definitely wait until all the flaws are found in the first Surface too -- none of that, "Hey? There's no webcam on my fancy, expensive, new ipad!" burning batter, or exploding screen nonsense, please.

For my money, I'll probably just wait until dell makes an ultra thin convertible ultrabook. It's only a matter of time, and they go to your house with the parts you need when things start to break!

 

[Colonel Travis]

crawfish, it's obvious you didn't even read the ZDnet story.

Regarding the story - if the writer wanted to compare 8 to New Coke and not tablet-making, fine. No problems there. But he could have done a better job tying that metaphor to 8 itself instead of to tablet-making:

Or, as Dan Farber muses, is it because Microsoft wants to (or believes it must) have more control of the entire, vertically-integrated package?
Quite honestly, this is as baffling as New Coke was to Coca Cola consumers worldwide. The company somehow thought it was the best idea ever, but, to all the rest of us, it looks for all the world like Microsoft just inexplicably killed off the Windows tablet OEM market.

As I writer, I'm a fan of clarity and he could be much more clear here. Anyway, that's not his ultimate issue, and I can't really agree with his ultimate issue. Maybe we'll find out down the road that MS wants to kill off OEMs. But someone explain to me:

1.) Why that would be a good business strategy for a company that relied on OEMs to get to where it is in the world?
2.) How does MS kill OEM tablet-making if OEMs chose not to go into the 8 tablet business? They'll own the consequences of that decision, not MS. MS isn't locking them out.

 

[crawfish]

crawfish, it's obvious you didn't even read the ZDnet story.

Whether I read it or not, I haven't responded to it. I've responded directly to things that have been said in this thread, things that stand on their own. Will you try to do the same when you reply to me? That way, your posts won't leave me scratching my head wondering why the heck you're replying to me and quoting what I've said. I responded to silly statements about Apple's "walled garden" and the oncoming rush of people eager to dump their iPads and buy something from Microsoft. When I replied to a subsequent false "trolling" accusation and said, "Laughing at ludicrous claims isn't 'trolling'," I was referring to those claims I had responded to earlier, and to the doubly ludicrous statement that the poster "deals in facts," which is what I quoted from his follow-up message and laughed at. You quoted that comment and replied to me to defend the poster who said those ridiculous things, and you rather strongly implied I had compared the Surface to New Coke or was supporting that argument, which is completely false and a strange thing to say. I didn't reply to your post and wasn't going to say anything, but Fseal came along, quoted everything, and made some sense out of it, and he said something interesting that related to something I said three weeks ago in a different thread, and I did reply to him. FWIW, I don't get the New Coke/Surface analogy, either, and I'm not interested in looking it up or talking about it, which ought to be pretty clear, as I haven't talked about it.

As I writer, I'm a fan of clarity

Good. Then you should get this!

 

[Colonel Travis]

You quoted that comment and replied to me to defend the poster who said those ridiculous things, and you rather strongly implied I had compared the Surface to New Coke or was supporting that argument, which is completely false and a strange thing to say.

crawfish - when I wrote "you" in that response, I was referring to "you" in the general sense, not you, crawfish. If you (crawfish) had read the link, which is the reason this thread exists, then you (crawfish) might have figured it out because it's obvious you (crawfish) weren't talking about New Coke or anything else I brought up in that comment.

Nonetheless, I obviously wasn't following my own rule about clarity. But if you (specifically and generally) want to be on the same page when talking about stuff, can you put some effort on your end, too, and actually read the links people put here? They put them in for a reason.

Even though Bill and I disagree about Metro, I respect Bill's opinion because he's got a lot of computer knowledge. He said he can't find but 100 good apps out of 500,000 for his iPad, and that it crashes and for that you call him a fanboy? That doesn't make any sense. His good app ratio, by the way, is higher than the ratio for me and Android. I use about 40, and of those 40 I use maybe 10 daily. The other 499,960 are garbage to me. Mine also locks up. I've got the same freaking complaints - so if MS (or anyone else) can build a better tablet I'm very interested.

 

[crawfish]

crawfish - when I wrote "you" in that response, I was referring to "you" in the general sense, not you, crawfish. If you (crawfish) had read the link, which is the reason this thread exists, then you (crawfish) might have figured it out because it's obvious you (crawfish) weren't talking about New Coke or anything else I brought up in that comment.

Nonetheless, I obviously wasn't following my own rule about clarity. But if you (specifically and generally) want to be on the same page when talking about stuff, can you put some effort on your end, too, and actually read the links people put here? They put them in for a reason.

Dude, I have no obligation to you to read anything, neither articles that have no bearing on what I'm replying to, nor your mind when you write things you now say you didn't mean. I've replied to certain things that have been said in this thread, quoting appropriately with context intact, and replying directly to what I quoted. I expect others to do the same. This is exactly why I didn't reply to you when I read your message the first time. I expected it would lead to just this sort of nonsense, and it's never worth the time. I don't have anything more to say to you about it than to suggest you read my last reply to you slowly and give it some time to sink in, and then you should rethink what you just wrote.

 

[Colonel Travis]

Dude, I have no obligation to you to read anything, neither articles that have no bearing on what I'm replying to, nor your mind when you write things you now say you didn't mean.

Don't blame me for your inability to fully understand what's being written here because you actively refuse to read what's being discussed. Reading comprehension includes context - gee, why is he talking about New Coke? If you would have read the link that started this entire discussion you might have known. The subhead of the article mentioned New Coke. The story mentioned New Coke. That's why I mentioned New Coke. That wasn't the only thing I mentioned in that little paragraph of mine, so I know you do read. But you read selectively. Now I don't mean what I originally meant? Even if you didn't read the ZDNet story, what you imply here makes zero sense.

Wires get crossed in this medium, crawfish. I don't know why everyone else has to put in a full effort and you don't. You called Bill a fanboy, why? Because he gave a list of things he couldn't stand about the iPad? I read your first reply to him which had some substance, but the next one didn't. Follow your own standards.

 

[crawfish]

Don't blame me for your inability to fully understand what's being written here because you actively refuse to read what's being discussed. Reading comprehension includes context - gee, why is he talking about New Coke? If you would have read the link that started this entire discussion you might have known. The subhead of the article mentioned New Coke. The story mentioned New Coke. That's why I mentioned New Coke. That wasn't the only thing I mentioned in that little paragraph of mine, so I know you do read. But you read selectively. Now I don't mean what I originally meant? Even if you didn't read the ZDNet story, what you imply here makes zero sense.

Wires get crossed in this medium, crawfish. I don't know why everyone else has to put in a full effort and you don't. You called Bill a fanboy, why? Because he gave a list of things he couldn't stand about the iPad? I read your first reply to him which had some substance, but the next one didn't. Follow your own standards.

Not much on learning from your mistakes, are you?

 

[jimbo45]

Hi all
Coke vs Pepsi -- who cares --both HORRIBLE drinks - much beloved by the dental profession -- loads of this stuff makes your teeth drop out by the time you are 40 --so all you youngsters walking down the streets drinking this horrible "fizzy" conconction -- forget it if you still think you need teeth in later life !!. --go into a pub and drink some proper Beer.

(And to those strange beings on this planet who don't actually like Beer -- whats wrong with a nice refreshing glass of cold "bog standard" H2O (or water in plain English). --Much better that that evil fizzy Coke / Pepsi stuff and doesn't damage the enamel off your teeth either.

Anyway to get back to the point --would we really miss the OEM market -- at least our PC's would be delivered without all the crapware that gets installed via the OEM route.

Cheers
jimbo