Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


How Microsoft can salvage Windows 8 before it's too late

  1. #151


    Posts : 51
    Windows 8 pre-release


    You are absolutely right. I am not sure about that,

    but by and large, Macs do have regular commercial quality support and applications whereas many linuces (and their communities) do not. I think that my college switched to Red Hat because of their commercial support structure. Even FreeBSD (a major factor in OpenDarwin) has only one major commercial support option (iX systems).

    I think you're right that Macs do not have the greatest support but they do have something. Regarding Linux servers: servers are just that--servers. A desktop system has much different requirements. This is why Wazzu ran Solaris 2.0 on their mainframes and electronics laboratories while running Novell Netware in their student labs.


    Even though they are binary applications, Flash, Java, Adobe and MP3 are pretty much required by desktop users. If you are running Red Hat/ Oracle /SUSE on a desktop PC, you must add EPEL release (Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux), livna and DAG. Most of the open source alternatives are simply not competitive yet and the Red Hat.Oracle/SUSE repositories do not include. That may be where OS X/Darwin is having its trouble.

    I am not a fan-boy of either system, I just want to get my work done and go on vacation. Windows 8 is the first release of Windows to include a flash player, PDF reader in addition to the usual bevy of multimedia codecs. So, I think it is a little unfair to compare the newest generation of Windows-based systems to OpenDarwin which has never had a perfect drop-in for the things you say because FreeBSD never had them either.

    Mac engineers have to reverse engineer every binary blob that Windows uses out of the box. I'd say that takes quite a while. I do not believe that Ubuntu moves any better than a commercial operation.

    Windows systems only "need" security updates because they have their own PDF reader, flash player and java-like machine environment (.NET Framework).

    So, I guess I'd still go to Mac If and only if I gave up on Windows. It's a little confusing to me to hear and talk about OS X because I only use it occasionally at school. But Windows and OS X work on radically different paradigms and I don't know enough to even talk too much about it.

    6 months is not really significant for any reverse-engineering job. The CentOS project has been known to take over a year to release a new version of enterprise Linux and, even then, Red Hat sources are ALL open and there are no binary applications to repackage or reprogram.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #152


    Posts : 239
    Win7 & 8 64bit / Linux Mint 14


    It all depends on what works for you and that of course is entirely dependant upon what you are going to use your laptop/desktop/etc for. If all I needed to do was access a few e-mails, some web browsing, letter writing, etc then no doubt one of the Linux distro's would do me just fine. So it's horses for courses and that varies according to the individual/organisation.

    I won't be upgrading to Win8 as there are no benefits to do so. I have a perfectly good Win7 rig running a SSD for the programs and a spinner for the data. Slightly disappointed (or was) that MS decided to go for the Metro look which I simply do not like but others do like it. So it's a free country and it's a personal decision.

    Jumping ship to the fruit company is a no go for me. It would cost several $$$'s to simply stand still as to what I have at present time. Agreed though they do make some nice looking kit but that's where it ends in my eyes. I know of more than one person that's had trouble with their Apple kit and it's usually cost some serious money to get the thing back on the straight and level. At least with MS based systems they are quick and relatively inexpensive to sort out.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #153


    Posts : 51
    Windows 8 pre-release


    Quote Originally Posted by mart4494 View Post
    . I have a perfectly good Win7 rig running a SSD for the programs and a spinner for the data. Slightly disappointed (or was) that MS decided to go for the Metro look which I simply do not like but others do like it. So it's a free country and it's a personal decision.

    Jumping ship to the fruit company is a no go for me. It would cost several $$$'s to simply stand still as to what I have at present time. Agreed though they do make some nice looking kit but that's where it ends in my eyes.

    I agree completely. I may have misunderstood the question. Apple is the only company that makes desktop computers and laptops that "look good" with the furniture and "good looks" are one of their primary goals in selling a computer. Their hardware (even though it is Intel-based) tends to be very shoddy and poorly put-together. iMacs have been known to break down completely within a year of their manufacture. As I said in a previous message, XP is still one of the most popular operating systems in the world. When I said I would "flock to Apple" I meant as a very last resort (IMO, it's better than nothing).

    I thought it was extremely foolish of my college to save money by switching to Red Hat. Of course we are a research institution and Linux is, essentially, an experimental project. Solaris provides a very good research environment, too, and it is used in mission-critical applications all over the world. So I guess I was conflating a UNIX argument with one that was just an investigation of OS/X versus Windows 8.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #154


    Quote Originally Posted by rich4421972 View Post
    6 months is not really significant for any reverse-engineering job. The CentOS project has been known to take over a year to release a new version of enterprise Linux and, even then, Red Hat sources are ALL open and there are no binary applications to repackage or reprogram.
    The CentOS project has never taken over a year to get their version of Enterprise Linux out after Red Hat. The only time CentOS was more than a year behind was the initial release of 2.1.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #155


    Posts : 239
    Win7 & 8 64bit / Linux Mint 14


    Quote Originally Posted by rich4421972 View Post

    I would like to hear more about your situation where "standing still" would cost more $$$ in terms of your setup. I think it is an interesting point I didn't understand that, I understand wanting to stay with Win7 or even Vista. I think many industries will be doing that, also.
    Every user has individual requirements. Hence whilst I've always played around with Linux then it would be a no go until the likes of Adobe threw their weight behind it.

    Regarding Apple, their stuff is simply overpriced and there's always an extortionate cost involved if you want to upgrade anything (assuming you can do it in the first place). All I would be doing is swapping my existing kit for something that looks pretty - although beauty is in the eyes.......

    Would it improve my productivity?? - I very much doubt but in the meantime would be seriously out by several hundred $$$'s.

    As an aside, Apple are IMO the original control freaks. At least with MS they do tend to allow latitude although that may of course all change with 8. We will see.

    Hence, I'm not anti Win8. It's just not for me. If folks though feel it fits their requirements then go ahead.

    As an aside, they interviewed outside the Apple store a guy who purchased a new iPhone. He'd camped outside for a couple of days so he could be the first. The reporter asked him what was new and he simply couldn't answer - his eyes were glazed over with excitement though. It was an Apple product so he just had to have the latest. His money so how he spends it was up to him I suppose. A go figure moment for me though!!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #156


    Posts : 636
    Windows 7/8


    [QUOTE=mart4494;108246]
    Quote Originally Posted by rich4421972 View Post
    As an aside, Apple are IMO the original control freaks. At least with MS they do tend to allow latitude although that may of course all change with 8. We will see.

    Hence, I'm not anti Win8. It's just not for me. If folks though feel it fits their requirements then go ahead.
    This is true, and it is true also that Steve Balmer has said that Microsoft is going to "Out Apple Apple". Which is frankly just frightening. We're all Windows fans because Microsoft is NOT Apple. But if Microsft /becomes/ apple? Hell might as well just buy Apple. The surface is going to be more expensive than the iPad, so I guess they are out Appling Apple already!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #157


    Posts : 239
    Win7 & 8 64bit / Linux Mint 14


    Quote Originally Posted by FSeal View Post
    This is true, and it is true also that Steve Balmer has said that Microsoft is going to "Out Apple Apple". Which is frankly just frightening. We're all Windows fans because Microsoft is NOT Apple. But if Microsft /becomes/ apple? Hell might as well just buy Apple. The surface is going to be more expensive than the iPad, so I guess they are out Appling Apple already!
    If that is the case then Balmer is living in fools paradise. Apple is often bought as a fashion accessory and MS is simply not in that market. It's 'cool' supposedly to be seen with an Apple product.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #158


    Posts : 51
    Windows 8 pre-release


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    The CentOS project has never taken over a year to get their version of Enterprise Linux out after Red Hat. The only time CentOS was more than a year behind was the initial release of 2.1.
    Sorry. I do have to correct. You can check your facts at both distrowatch.com and at the project's website (as well as any other enterprise project website). Going From 5.7 to 6.0 took over a year to be released by CentOS. Scientific Linux had it in 6 months and PUIAS had it in an even shorter time because Princeton Computer Science is able to put an updated version of Enterprise Linux on their repositories almast as soon as the code is recompiled. ClarkConnect (ClearOS) tends to take even longer but that is likely due to their highly tweaked web interface.

    The point I was trying to make is that, releasing a generic Enterprise Linux does not require reverse engineering--it requires recompiling and repackaging the freely available source code and removing patented branding from the end result.

    In this way, Mac engineers have to create their own open version of the Adobe and Oracle binaries in order to use them as drop in applications. It's not a question of time, it's a question of what has to be done. CentOS aims (and achieves) for 100% compatibility with Enterprise Linux. No other Linux distro claims to do that (Oracle "unbreakable linux" even uses large portions of CentOS source code). That's why it takes them longer (although 6.3 did come out very quickly for them).
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #159


    Quote Originally Posted by rich4421972 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    The CentOS project has never taken over a year to get their version of Enterprise Linux out after Red Hat. The only time CentOS was more than a year behind was the initial release of 2.1.
    Sorry. I do have to correct. You can check your facts at both distrowatch.com and at the project's website (as well as any other enterprise project website). Going From 5.7 to 6.0 took over a year to be released by CentOS. Scientific Linux had it in 6 months and PUIAS had it in an even shorter time because Princeton Computer Science is able to put an updated version of Enterprise Linux on their repositories almast as soon as the code is recompiled.
    CentOS 5.7, (released on 9-13-2011) came from RHEL 5.7 (released on 7-21-2011). So, less than 60 days after RHEL released.

    CentOS 6.0 (released on 7-10-2011) and came from RHEL 6.0 (released on 11-10-2010). So, around an 8 month delay after RH.

    So, the absolute earliest CentOS could have released CentOS 6 would have been the same day that RedHat did, 11-10-2010).

    Based on the above dates, one can see that it didn't take over 1 year to get from 5.7 to 6.0, actually 6.0 was out before 5.7 was released.

    Remember, CentOS and RHEL releases don't go in numerical order. They both still pump out 5.x releases as well as 6.x releases. The 5.8 product for both CentOS and RHEL were released after 6.0, 6.1 and 6.2
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #160


    Posts : 51
    Windows 8 pre-release


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rich4421972 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    The CentOS project has never taken over a year to get their version of Enterprise Linux out after Red Hat. The only time CentOS was more than a year behind was the initial release of 2.1.
    CentOS 5.7, (released on 9-13-2011) came from RHEL 5.7 (released on 7-21-2011). So, less than 60 days after RHEL released.

    CentOS 6.0 (released on 7-10-2011) and came from RHEL 6.0 (released on 11-10-2010). So, around an 8 month delay after RH.

    So, the absolute earliest CentOS could have released CentOS 6 would have been the same day that RedHat did, 11-10-2010).

    Based on the above dates, one can see that it didn't take over 1 year to get from 5.7 to 6.0, actually 6.0 was out before 5.7 was released.

    Remember, CentOS and RHEL releases don't go in numerical order. They both still pump out 5.x releases as well as 6.x releases. The 5.8 product for both CentOS and RHEL were released after 6.0, 6.1 and 6.2

    I am the one to be corrected!

    I apologize and stand corrected. I do hope you liked my view on the Apple/Java situation, though.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

Page 16 of 25 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
How Microsoft can salvage Windows 8 before it's too late
Related Threads
Solved Howto salvage Win 8 Pro on a SSD in Installation & Setup
I have come to the conclusion my 115 gb ssd is failing. Windows can't restore from a restore point and paragon partition recovery could not finish. Several of my programs will expire and I don't want to lose them. If I reinstall Win 8 Pro with custom option onto my hdd will my programs...
Solved Sorry MicroSoft, it's to late, in General Support
Yep, it to late to teach this old dog new tricks, i upgraded to win 8, spent 4 hours trying to learn new tricks. solved the problem,I installed " Classic Shell" and now I am the proud owner of windows 7 & 1/2....... works pretty damn good.
Read more at source: Microsoft to deliver new Windows 8 and Windows RT Lync app in late October | ZDNet
Read more at: Windows 8 to arrive by late October, Microsoft says | Windows 8 - CNET Reviews
Windows 8 tablets too late ? in General Support
I just finished a quote for a high school, they want a wireless network for their 632 students that will use Ipad instead of text book and pen. They make the experience last year with 1 class and was extremely satisfy. Apple offer the Ipad at discount for the parents. It's not unique here in...
more at source...
Eight Forums Android App Eight Forums IOS App Follow us on Facebook