Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Xbox One's DRM puportedly explained by "Xbox engineer"

  1. #31


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    You're not renting your games out or anything. The Xbox One works EXACTLY the same to an extent as the 360, you still can play disk games except you have to install it onto the hard drive first. That is a performance benefit.
    Gotta think a bit outside of the box Cokie. Let's say that you buy a game, and for 2-3 years you play that game like crazy. Now, lets say 15 years goes by. You are now in college and you have nostalgia for your old games, so you dig out your old Xbox One and turn it on to show your college friends this really cool game you played 15 years ago. Except, when you turn on your console and it cannot perform the 24 hour internet check (because MS turned off the check in feature years ago when Xbox One had been replaced by Xbox Three). Now you cannot play this SINGLE PLAYER game. It won't launch with the 24 hour internet check in. So, unlike all other consoles you bought before, there is a very strong potential that you won't be able to play these games on this console forever. Therefore, the concept that you don't OWN the games, but are rather renting them for as long as it's decided that Xbox One's should work.

    That is what people are complaining about. For some, that is very much a legitimate concern.

    Reminds me greatly of a terrible concept called Divx created by Circuit City that was out to compete with DVD's. Movies were cheap allowing you to amass a huge library at low cost, but you had to pay rental fees when you watched said movie. But if the mothership gets turned off (which it did), your collection is useless. I campaigned HARD against Divx, and it's gone, never really made it and only screwed over a few people. And the lies being told by salespeople to customers was crazy...things like Disney movies would ONLY be avilable on Divx and not DVD, Divx looked better, sounded better, etc. You had to buy a special Divx player (that cost $100 more), but would also play regular DVD's...so they told you it was a better buy (of course, they were making more money because they were a 1/3 owner of the technology). It was disgusting.

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  2. #32


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    You're not renting your games out or anything. The Xbox One works EXACTLY the same to an extent as the 360, you still can play disk games except you have to install it onto the hard drive first. That is a performance benefit.
    Gotta think a bit outside of the box Cokie. Let's say that you buy a game, and for 2-3 years you play that game like crazy. Now, lets say 15 years goes by. You are now in college and you have nostalgia for your old games, so you dig out your old Xbox One and turn it on to show your college friends this really cool game you played 15 years ago. Except, when you turn on your console and it cannot perform the 24 hour internet check (because MS turned off the check in feature years ago when Xbox One had been replaced by Xbox Three). Now you cannot play this SINGLE PLAYER game. It won't launch with the 24 hour internet check in. So, unlike all other consoles you bought before, there is a very strong potential that you won't be able to play these games on this console forever. Therefore, the concept that you don't OWN the games, but are rather renting them for as long as it's decided that Xbox One's should work.

    That is what people are complaining about. For some, that is very much a legitimate concern.

    Reminds me greatly of a terrible concept called Divx created by Circuit City that was out to compete with DVD's. Movies were cheap allowing you to amass a huge library at low cost, but you had to pay rental fees when you watched said movie. But if the mothership gets turned off (which it did), your collection is useless. I campaigned HARD against Divx, and it's gone, never really made it and only screwed over a few people. And the lies being told by salespeople to customers was crazy...things like Disney movies would ONLY be avilable on Divx and not DVD, Divx looked better, sounded better, etc. You had to buy a special Divx player (that cost $100 more), but would also play regular DVD's...so they told you it was a better buy (of course, they were making more money because they were a 1/3 owner of the technology). It was disgusting.
    Very true (already thought of that by the way ) about that. But in all honestly, is there something that is feasibly there to suggest that? I mean, if the Xbox Three did the 24 hour ping just like the One, wouldn't it make sense for Microsoft to use the SAME servers as they did for the One?

    That will have to depend on how they rig up that connection, if it's something that will continue to be used for over a decade with new Xboxes, not a worry. They have in the recent past taken down Halo 2 PC multiplayer servers because like three people at one time were doing that...
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  3. #33


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post

    You're not renting your games out or anything. The Xbox One works EXACTLY the same to an extent as the 360, you still can play disk games except you have to install it onto the hard drive first. That is a performance benefit.
    Gotta think a bit outside of the box Cokie. Let's say that you buy a game, and for 2-3 years you play that game like crazy. Now, lets say 15 years goes by. You are now in college and you have nostalgia for your old games, so you dig out your old Xbox One and turn it on to show your college friends this really cool game you played 15 years ago. Except, when you turn on your console and it cannot perform the 24 hour internet check (because MS turned off the check in feature years ago when Xbox One had been replaced by Xbox Three). Now you cannot play this SINGLE PLAYER game. It won't launch with the 24 hour internet check in. So, unlike all other consoles you bought before, there is a very strong potential that you won't be able to play these games on this console forever. Therefore, the concept that you don't OWN the games, but are rather renting them for as long as it's decided that Xbox One's should work.

    That is what people are complaining about. For some, that is very much a legitimate concern.

    Reminds me greatly of a terrible concept called Divx created by Circuit City that was out to compete with DVD's. Movies were cheap allowing you to amass a huge library at low cost, but you had to pay rental fees when you watched said movie. But if the mothership gets turned off (which it did), your collection is useless. I campaigned HARD against Divx, and it's gone, never really made it and only screwed over a few people. And the lies being told by salespeople to customers was crazy...things like Disney movies would ONLY be avilable on Divx and not DVD, Divx looked better, sounded better, etc. You had to buy a special Divx player (that cost $100 more), but would also play regular DVD's...so they told you it was a better buy (of course, they were making more money because they were a 1/3 owner of the technology). It was disgusting.
    Very true (already thought of that by the way ) about that. But in all honestly, is there something that is feasibly there to suggest that? I mean, if the Xbox Three did the 24 hour ping just like the One, wouldn't it make sense for Microsoft to use the SAME servers as they did for the One?

    That will have to depend on how they rig up that connection, if it's something that will continue to be used for over a decade with new Xboxes, not a worry. They have in the recent past taken down Halo 2 PC multiplayer servers because like three people at one time were doing that...
    They could use same server, but that is a risk that you would have to accept. What if the video game market dried up for Microsoft and they decided to end the gaming division and shut down all of the servers. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

    The whole check in thing just seems unnecessarily heavy handed.
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  4. #34


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there.

    Very true.

    What happens also if the whole infrastructure becomes "Abandonware" and even the whole mechanism of the Internet is totally changed 15 years hence -- who knows what might happen - especially as countries are getting more and more paranoid and restricting freedoms like crazy due to "State Security Issues".

    If I buy something that is essentially a single user piece of kit or software - then provided I keep some mechanism around like Virtual machines then if I want to run something on Windows 3.11 for example then why shouldn't I be able to do it. I'm of course not expecting Ms for example to support obsolete gear for ever and ever - but there's no reason why I shouldn't keep my own gear running.

    What about some of those beautiful old Steam Railways / old Tramways etc that are kept working by volunteers -- the world would be an infinitely worse place if all our old heritage was simply thrown into the nearest tip.

    Even the good citizens of San Francisco nearly caused a mini revolution in the US when at one time there was even a possibility of shutting down the cable car system for good -- I'll bet most visitors to that city are hugely thankful that they were kept running. !!

    Although I'm against Piracy I've always supported people finding ways to remove the DRM from Movies, music or even e-books. If I buy something I want to be able to use it WHEN and WHERE I want -- would you buy a car if it said you could only use SHELL GAS for example.

    The Ms model actually isn't sustainable --somebody will crack it sooner or later via something like "Pseudo KMS servers" or Ms itself will realize this is NOT a good business model and drop it.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  5. #35


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The Xbox One is a obviously a huge shift for console gaming.
    Yes it is. The shift is, as the article said it... shit (look/search it in the article, they repeat the word... is that engineer language?).

    I don't buy gaming consoles anymore. Still, they have enough customers anyway.

    Even if i do like 8, that doesn't mean I like the XBOX, on the contrary!
    You can do changes, but it seems too much changes are bad.

    Good,
    I leave the rest to the fans.
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  6. #36


    Posts : 1,127
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    Gotta think a bit outside of the box Cokie. Let's say that you buy a game, and for 2-3 years you play that game like crazy. Now, lets say 15 years goes by. You are now in college and you have nostalgia for your old games, so you dig out your old Xbox One and turn it on to show your college friends this really cool game you played 15 years ago. Except, when you turn on your console and it cannot perform the 24 hour internet check (because MS turned off the check in feature years ago when Xbox One had been replaced by Xbox Three). Now you cannot play this SINGLE PLAYER game. It won't launch with the 24 hour internet check in. So, unlike all other consoles you bought before, there is a very strong potential that you won't be able to play these games on this console forever. Therefore, the concept that you don't OWN the games, but are rather renting them for as long as it's decided that Xbox One's should work.
    it's a legitimate concern. but it's something that hasn't happened yet and until it does, it's just a concern. To this day, after 13 years, you can still download the few DLC that were made available for the original Xbox. Sure, there are no multiplayer servers and the original Xbox Live infrastructure is gone, but that DLC you paid for is still available. So I don't know where this talk is exactly coming from. People are equating the loss of multiplayer servers with the loss of authentication servers and that hasn't been the case.

    Azure is a huge part of Xbox Live now. Xbox Live is expanding from 15,000 on the 360 to 300,000 servers on the One. I'm sure there will be authentication servers for the One 15 years down the road if past history is anything to go by.
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  7. #37


    Posts : 1,127
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    The Ms model actually isn't sustainable --somebody will crack it sooner or later via something like "Pseudo KMS servers" or Ms itself will realize this is NOT a good business model and drop it.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    I'm sure someone will find a way to crack MS's DRM scheme just like there are workarounds for Steam games. But it'll still be better than the heavily cracked system on the 360. My Youtube channel is pretty much all sports and gaming. And I get a ton of hits from an xbox pirate site in Europe. That site actually linked my gameplay videos so that people could see what the game was like before downloading the ISO.
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  8. #38


    Posts : 79
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The lack of backwards compatibility if a two fold thing. One, last gen hardware sucks donkey genitals compared to what's out there now. The PS4 and Xbox both have x86 based AMD APUs, those can't process like the PowerPC CPU did on the 360. It's like if one tried to get Desktop software to run on Windows RT tablets. It can happen, but with great difficulty and ultimately a poor experience on newer modern hardware in which the old software was never designed for. They could have put in some 360 hardware into the One, but that would had increased the cost about 150-200 dollars for a new console, to play old games, that your current 360 can be used just fine for. It would be pointless to buy a new console that has new and old hardware, you'd basically be buying two Xbox 360s when all is said and done.
    That's pure speculation and I would wager to be way off. Chips drop in price alot when made in mass. The volume that MS cranks out the 360 SoC has to drop the cost significantly. Couple that with on-going die shrinks and the chip becomes even cheaper and more energy efficient. They could've even used the 360 SoC to do something else when playing One games, maybe process sound for example. I'm not an engineer, but all we're talking about here is designing the board with the SoC included, and OS changes to facilitate its use. The system will already include a Blu-Ray/DVD drive. None of this should be hard for Microsoft. They went cheap, plain and simple.
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  9. #39


    Posts : 1,127
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    you overestimate "the volume". like I said, over the course of 8 years, a grand total of 260 million 360, Wii, and PS3 systems were sold. that's less than the 330 million of PCs sold in a single year. for the 360 count, you have, what, 78 million systems? it's not a high volume product in the grand scheme of things. it's considered a halo product (no pun intended) for Microsoft but it's not a money mover like other Microsoft products. don't get me wrong. the 360 has moved a lot more devices than say Apple TV.

    and there are strong hints that you will be able to plug the 360 into the HDMI In of the One. Marc Witten from Microsoft was asked that and gave a sly smile and said no comment.
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  10. #40


    Posts : 79
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyvu View Post
    you overestimate "the volume". like I said, over the course of 8 years, a grand total of 260 million 360, Wii, and PS3 systems were sold. that's less than the 330 million of PCs sold in a single year. for the 360 count, you have, what, 78 million systems? it's not a high volume product in the grand scheme of things. it's considered a halo product (no pun intended) for Microsoft but it's not a money mover like other Microsoft products. don't get me wrong. the 360 has moved a lot more devices than say Apple TV.

    and there are strong hints that you will be able to plug the 360 into the HDMI In of the One. Marc Witten from Microsoft was asked that and gave a sly smile and said no comment.
    We're also talking about a very outdated, old CPU. Besides, what do you think Intel and AMD are fabbing those chips for? A lot less than whats being charged consumer level, I bet. I still say the cost of the SoC would be minimal, but we're going to have to agree to disagree

    What am I going to gain by plugging the 360 into the One vs. just plugging it into the TV?
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Xbox One's DRM puportedly explained by "Xbox engineer"
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