Xbox One's DRM puportedly explained by "Xbox engineer"

http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions

>It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm rubbish as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted rubbish.
>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.

 

[dirtyvu]

the 360 CPU is a custom PowerPC-based design designed by IBM/Microsoft and produced by a handful of Chinese/Taiwanese companies. it is not a mass commodity CPU that other devices are using. same thing for the Cell processor which has a PPC with some SPUs attached. it's part of the reason why Microsoft and Sony are moving to mainstream commodity technology. sure, there's still custom parts and designs that Microsoft/Sony wanted for their devices, but the base is still mainstream hardware.

you think AMD is making a lot of money off the Xbox One and PS4 deals? think again. the volumes of chips aren't high enough. the margins on the chips aren't high enough. Microsoft and Sony negotiated hard deals and AMD is in no position to be choosy. beggers can't be choosy. they haven't caused a blip in AMD's stock. AMD is hoping for the halo effect and get more companies to look at their chips.

and I think with commodity products, we'll see more rapid iterations of consoles from here on out and why there's a better chance now of backwards compatibility for future consoles.

Microsoft has said in this article (page 1), the Xbox One is going to be like a Steam box.

 

[vram]

the 360 CPU is a custom PowerPC-based design designed by IBM/Microsoft and produced by a handful of Chinese/Taiwanese companies. it is not a mass commodity CPU that other devices are using. same thing for the Cell processor which has a PPC with some SPUs attached. it's part of the reason why Microsoft and Sony are moving to mainstream commodity technology. sure, there's still custom parts and designs that Microsoft/Sony wanted for their devices, but the base is still mainstream hardware.

you think AMD is making a lot of money off the Xbox One and PS4 deals? think again. the volumes of chips aren't high enough. the margins on the chips aren't high enough. Microsoft and Sony negotiated hard deals and AMD is in no position to be choosy. beggers can't be choosy. they haven't caused a blip in AMD's stock. AMD is hoping for the halo effect and get more companies to look at their chips.

and I think with commodity products, we'll see more rapid iterations of consoles from here on out and why there's a better chance now of backwards compatibility for future consoles.

Microsoft has said in this article (page 1), the Xbox One is going to be like a Steam box.

AMD Will Receive $60 - $100 for Every SoC for Next-Gen Game Consoles - Financial Analysts - X-bit labs

 

[dirtyvu]

the 360 CPU is a custom PowerPC-based design designed by IBM/Microsoft and produced by a handful of Chinese/Taiwanese companies. it is not a mass commodity CPU that other devices are using. same thing for the Cell processor which has a PPC with some SPUs attached. it's part of the reason why Microsoft and Sony are moving to mainstream commodity technology. sure, there's still custom parts and designs that Microsoft/Sony wanted for their devices, but the base is still mainstream hardware.

you think AMD is making a lot of money off the Xbox One and PS4 deals? think again. the volumes of chips aren't high enough. the margins on the chips aren't high enough. Microsoft and Sony negotiated hard deals and AMD is in no position to be choosy. beggers can't be choosy. they haven't caused a blip in AMD's stock. AMD is hoping for the halo effect and get more companies to look at their chips.

and I think with commodity products, we'll see more rapid iterations of consoles from here on out and why there's a better chance now of backwards compatibility for future consoles.

Microsoft has said in this article (page 1), the Xbox One is going to be like a Steam box.

AMD Will Receive $60 - $100 for Every SoC for Next-Gen Game Consoles - Financial Analysts - X-bit labs

that's not very much. especially with the number of sales. they're using the combined 9 million PS3 and 360 consoles for year 1 (and it's doubtful that this generation of consoles will sell at the same levels as the previous generation). 9 million units is a drop in the bucket. Microsoft/Sony is paying between $60-100 for the APU. how much do you think AMD will make of that in terms of profit? what do you think the margin is at these numbers? not very high.

the article never states that $60-100 is profit and even hints that it is not: "But even at $60 to $90 AMD should make a good money, assuming high demand for the consoles and good yield of the chips."

when it comes to bill of materials, Microsoft doesn't care how much AMD makes. their BOM for the Xbox One will include an APU that they negotiated for a cost of $60-100. let AMD figure out if they can make money out of that.

 

[vram]

the 360 CPU is a custom PowerPC-based design designed by IBM/Microsoft and produced by a handful of Chinese/Taiwanese companies. it is not a mass commodity CPU that other devices are using. same thing for the Cell processor which has a PPC with some SPUs attached. it's part of the reason why Microsoft and Sony are moving to mainstream commodity technology. sure, there's still custom parts and designs that Microsoft/Sony wanted for their devices, but the base is still mainstream hardware.

you think AMD is making a lot of money off the Xbox One and PS4 deals? think again. the volumes of chips aren't high enough. the margins on the chips aren't high enough. Microsoft and Sony negotiated hard deals and AMD is in no position to be choosy. beggers can't be choosy. they haven't caused a blip in AMD's stock. AMD is hoping for the halo effect and get more companies to look at their chips.

and I think with commodity products, we'll see more rapid iterations of consoles from here on out and why there's a better chance now of backwards compatibility for future consoles.

Microsoft has said in this article (page 1), the Xbox One is going to be like a Steam box.

AMD Will Receive $60 - $100 for Every SoC for Next-Gen Game Consoles - Financial Analysts - X-bit labs

that's not very much. especially with the number of sales. they're using the combined 9 million PS3 and 360 consoles for year 1 (and it's doubtful that this generation of consoles will sell at the same levels as the previous generation). 9 million units is a drop in the bucket. Microsoft/Sony is paying between $60-100 for the APU. how much do you think AMD will make of that in terms of profit? what do you think the margin is at these numbers? not very high.

the article never states that $60-100 is profit and even hints that it is not: "But even at $60 to $90 AMD should make a good money, assuming high demand for the consoles and good yield of the chips."

when it comes to bill of materials, Microsoft doesn't care how much AMD makes. their BOM for the Xbox One will include an APU that they negotiated for a cost of $60-100. let AMD figure out if they can make money out of that.

Again, I don't have hard facts, but neither do you. Unless one of us get access to their books, no one knows for sure.

 

[geeve420]

Microsoft has said in this article (page 1), the Xbox One is going to be like a Steam box.

Wait, so you mean kinda like the actual Steam box coming out this year? At least with this one you can use offlime mode and you can get in on the huge sales they have.

http://m.techradar.com/news/gaming/valve-steam-box-what-you-need-to-know-1127072

Geeve

 

[dirtyvu]

have you seen the prices for the Steam boxes? kinda crazy. If you thought the Xbox One and PS4 were expensive, you haven't been following prices for the Steam box devices. Even Valve had to back up when gamers mocked the price of the demo'ed boxes.

 

[geeve420]

have you seen the prices for the Steam boxes? kinda crazy. If you thought the Xbox One and PS4 were expensive, you haven't been following prices for the Steam box devices. Even Valve had to back up when gamers mocked the price of the demo'ed boxes.

No I haven't to be honest. I read that comment and remembered reading about it. Just playing a bit of the devil's advocate. ...

Geeve

 

[dirtyvu]

I know you were. kind of like when someone says something and it leaves a wide opening for a joke.

 

[Rickkins]

AMD Will Receive $60 - $100 for Every SoC for Next-Gen Game Consoles - Financial Analysts - X-bit labs

Outstanding. I like AMD, as they are the ONLY ones keeping cpu prices down. If they ever fall, we are all screwed, as the greed pigs of intel will inflate the price of cpu's tenfold....

 

[dirtyvu]

yeah, but Intel fans don't see it that way. they'd love to see AMD die. they're too young to remember how stagnant Intel got when they had minimal competition.

AMD hired back some of the key contributors to the golden age of AMD so hopefully they can make a difference. However, it'll take a couple years before any fruit bear out in CPU designs.

 

[TanyaC]

No, I'll stick to buying and playing my games the way I do now, on a PC, with no net needed
Wenda.

I'm with you on this one.

Unfortunately, game and application designers are flocking to an "always connected" model. For example, Diablo III won't even play unless you have an active Internet connection. On the Application side, DVDFab have introduced the same model. There are many other examples.

I have boycotted all "Always-online" games, and surprisingly, my kids supported the move.

Tanya

 

[austerus]

I can see the new XBOX as being great as a HOME SERVER - it has all the decent attributes for a server already built in -- it's network and multi-media "Sharing" ready and has a decent set of hardware.

I wouldn't call it a server since it's not really good as storage or home app server, but it sounds like a great media server. In fact this is what sparked my interest in it. A media server on which you can also play really good games is worth it, as taken separately the Xbox isn't worth it (you can get the Roku as an all-around media server for $100, for example).

However, I am worried about the country lock (not being able to use an Xbox One from UK in another country), possible region locks on games, the restrictions on used games, etc. The main reason is that Microsoft didn't bother explaining why it's doing this when others don't.

I'm not buying a console to help others make money, I'm buying it because it serves my purposes and if I'm paying a buck, I'd like to know that I'll be able to use all the features of the device. My purpose in the world isn't to help MS or Sony make money. They've been making money nicely until now under the current models so helping them gained more control to force people to pay up isn't my interest. They're not going to die if they ease up on control.

Also, I don't agree that the age of PC gaming is gone. In fact, between Sony and Microsoft the age of PC gaming might be getting a resurrection. The PC doesn't have any of the limitations of the consoles in terms of outside control & DRM (depending on how you get your games) while it has the same benefits and over time it offers more flexibility (on the PC you can do anything you do on the console and more - most importantly, you can use the PC for gaming & productivity, not just consuming stuff). You can hook up your PC to the TV, use game controllers, etc.

And no, the PC isn't more expensive in the long run (even though it allows you to keep head in gaming quality by upgrading). If you have a console and you play for 10 years, building a game collection, when the next model comes up you have to either scrap your old collection or keep them running side by side, unlike the PC where you can upgrade your existing system with minimal cost (you can sell your games, hardware and buy new ones with the difference), find cheap ways of playing old games (dosbox, anyone?) all on one device.

Now we can get to Steam. First of all Steam is just a slice of PC gaming. It doesn't prevent trading (you can trade steam accounts easily or borrow them). Secondly, model of not allowing used games sales is being challenged (at least in the EU where the EU Commission already ruled against Oracle on used licenses and Steam is under scrutiny on the same theme).

 

[dirtyvu]

if you're resorting to trading or "borrowing" Steam accounts, then you can trade or borrow any account. will you let me borrow your bank account? why kind of logic is this???

if you get caught selling a Steam account, you are in violation of their agreement and you can have your account banned and all your purchases gone. Steam has done this to people (who amusingly claim their innocence).

You may not sell or charge others for the right to use your Account, or otherwise transfer your Account, nor may you sell, charge others for the right to use, or transfer any Subscriptions other than if and as expressly permitted by this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use).

as for the EU decision... the EU decision isn't what people think it is. The end user has the right to resell licenses direct from the publisher, but the publisher is under no legal force to provide a means by which to do so. Additionally, services like Steam skirt that law by having it in their terms of service that game purchases are permanently tied to a single account. You don't have the legal right to move a license from your account to the account of someone else. Since Xbox Live ties games to your account, they aren't susceptible to those resell laws.

Legal precedent in the U.S. is similar, wherein the prevailing case is one where someone resold a license for an Autodesk product. The decision is much the same here, wherein licenses purchased from an individual company could potentially be transferred, but licensing done through a third-party provider is dictated by the terms of service of that provider. It also eliminates First Sale Doctrine from the picture, as the physical media is just the medium by which the software is tied to your account. So while I know internet "experts" keep referencing these things, they aren't remotely what people think they are.

 

[austerus]

if you're resorting to trading or "borrowing" Steam accounts, then you can trade or borrow any account. will you let me borrow your bank account? why kind of logic is this???

No you can't. Xbox One accounts will be locked by actual geolocation, if "Xbox Support" tweets are anything to go by (buy console in UK, make a UK Xbox Live Account, move to another country => can't play). When PS3 launched, there was no Playstation Store in my country, but as I bought the console in France, I made a PSN France account and I could still use it when I went back. Similarly, for games that weren't released on PSN France, I borrowed a friend's account who was from UK (for example), set it up on my console and I could login with his password and play his games. When I sold my PS3, I also sold my PSN account and therefore the games on it.

You don't have to bind your card/payment info to your account permanently. I never do, even back on PSN or on Steam, I add them and remove them before actually paying.

as for the EU decision... the EU decision isn't what people think it is. The end user has the right to resell licenses direct from the publisher

I'm sure you have a degree in European Community law, but let's wait to see how things go for Steam for when the decision is implemented in legislation, shall we? Not offering a means to resell the license is infringing on that right (if it is upheld).

 

[dirtyvu]

so you're going to let me borrow your bank account too? sure if you want to let people use your account, that's your business. just like you can give me your password to your email. that doesn't mean squat. that's not a legal provision to use someone's Steam games. if you get caught, your friend's Steam account can get banned and have all access to his games removed.

you guys are floating in the gray here.

same thing for PSN. if you give me access to your email/password and let me use your account, you are in violation of the Sony's TOS. and you can also get your rights revoked. you don't believe me? give me your account information and let's see what happens to that account.

 

[austerus]

same thing for PSN. if you give me access to your email/password and let me use your account, you are in violation of the Sony's TOS. and you can also get your rights revoked. you don't believe me? give me your account information and let's see what happens to that account.

I still have no idea what you're trying to say with the bank account? How is that even remotely the same thing? Yes, if we were friends I would let you have my games. No, I would definitely not give anyone access to my bank account.

You're right about Steam, it is a gray area there. *technically* it's a violation of TOS (though nothing happened to me so far).

You're wrong about PSN though (partially).

Selling my PSN accout did constitute a violation, but simply moving the access point of the account isn't and while I recognize now what I did, they would have had a hard time proving the violation (yeah, suddenly someone started accessing my account from another IP, big deal since I stopped accessing it on my end - doesn't mean anything).

Having an account from another country's PSN isn't a violation however, it's in fact what the PSN customer service told me I need to do. If I have a valid French address then I should use a French PSN. If I have a valid UK address, I should use a UK PSN. When I move, I can keep all the accounts and the games I paid for, though probably I wouldn't be able to buy anything new on those specific accounts from the online store (unless I also had kept my bank accounts in those countries).

However, the point is that having an account in a different geographic area works and it's not an infraction. If they were to come after me for selling my PSN, I would kick them with my right to sell my online products (including the account). If Steam would ban me for switching accounts, I would have to live with that (probably) - however since in our group we have 8 accounts going through the same IP, I don't see how they can tell we're all sharing accounts.

Microsoft on the other hand seems to want to introduce country lock based on geographical location, which would hurt me should I move again.

 

[burtie]

Just one thing I don't understand...if the XboxOne isn't backwards compatible, how can Microsoft offer Assassins Creed 2 and Halo 3 as downloads for live subscribers? They are old games right?

 

[dirtyvu]

Just one thing I don't understand...if the XboxOne isn't backwards compatible, how can Microsoft offer Assassins Creed 2 and Halo 3 as downloads for live subscribers? They are old games right?

the downloads are for the 360.

 

[burtie]

Just one thing I don't understand...if the XboxOne isn't backwards compatible, how can Microsoft offer Assassins Creed 2 and Halo 3 as downloads for live subscribers? They are old games right?

the downloads are for the 360.

Ah right, thanks. I just heard they were offering free games to live subscribers, I thought they were on about XboxOne lol. My bads.

 

[Lebon14]

If XB1 is using a similar way of doing things than on steam, then why can't you use your game on another XB1? I mean, you can install Steam on another computer, download your game there and play. You can do that on 50 computers. But on XB1, you can't do that because you have to get through so many DRM it's... urgh. And, you'll maybe have to repurcahse a licence too... maybe.

About the internet, XB1 will need a connection every 24 hours. For Steam, you connect ONCE to login. If you want to play a game on your laptop that isn't connected to the net, all you need is to have been connected at least once in the past so the credential can be checked offline. With Steam you CAN play offline for more than 24 hours, but not the XB1

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I've never been a fan of XBox nor PlayStation.