Windows 8 uncertainty blamed for decline in PC sales

or the first time in five years, PC shipments over the holiday shopping season were lower than the year before - and IDC is blaming Windows 8.

The research firm says that a hoped-for boost to sales from the new operating system failed to materialize, contributing to fourth quarter sales down by 6.4 percent, 4.5 percent in the US.

"Although the third quarter was focused on the clearing of Windows 7 inventory, preliminary research indicates the clearance did not significantly boost the uptake of Windows 8 systems in Q4," says Jay Chou, senior research analyst with IDC's Worldwide Quarterly PC Tracker.

Source

A Guy

 

[Ray8]

Lets put it this way, if MS put the Start Menu back in, who would have gone to metro.

Or if they'd bought Surface Pro out first who'd go back to a cut down version.

Plenty would try the apps, if for no other reason than curiosity. Eventually, when Microsoft actually allowed you to re-size and re-position apps any way you like, people would have started to use them for the versatility that would have provided, as an adjunct to the desktop.

All of Microsoft's efforts should have gone into releasing Windows 8, not RT. Everyone was waiting for a upgrade to Windows 7, not a cut down version. Windows RT could have been marketed differently later on, as a cut down version, not struggling from the outset to explain to people why you couldn't run Office etc in RT.

 

[Tepid]

Office comes preinstalled with WinRT, it is part of the WinRT experience. Not an additional install.

 

[BillWindows]

Lets put it this way, if MS put the Start Menu back in, who would have gone to metro.

Or if they'd bought Surface Pro out first who'd go back to a cut down version.

Plenty would try the apps, if for no other reason than curiosity. Eventually, when Microsoft actually allowed you to re-size and re-position apps any way you like, people would have started to use them for the versatility that would have provided, as an adjunct to the desktop.

All of Microsoft's efforts should have gone into releasing Windows 8, not RT. Everyone was waiting for a upgrade to Windows 7, not a cut down version. Windows RT could have been marketed differently later on, as a cut down version, not struggling from the outset to explain to people why you couldn't run Office etc in RT.

Whatever the reasoning behind their decisions is in the past, I'm more interested in the future. It's their business what they do, I can only guess as to why they may or may not have done something.

I just hope they and the OEM'S stay strong so we can see what's possible in the future.

 

[Ray8]

Office comes preinstalled with WinRT, it is part of the WinRT experience. Not an additional install.

Cherry picking once again and totally missing the point. I mentioned Office etc, to reflect the full gamut of regular Windows compatible programs that are not supported on RT (Office for RT is a cut back version in any case). If I'd mentioned Photoshop or the like, I suppose you would have said not many people use Photoshop.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Lets put it this way, if MS put the Start Menu back in, who would have gone to metro.

Or if they'd bought Surface Pro out first who'd go back to a cut down version.

Plenty would try the apps, if for no other reason than curiosity. Eventually, when Microsoft actually allowed you to re-size and re-position apps any way you like, people would have started to use them for the versatility that would have provided, as an adjunct to the desktop.

All of Microsoft's efforts should have gone into releasing Windows 8, not RT. Everyone was waiting for a upgrade to Windows 7, not a cut down version. Windows RT could have been marketed differently later on, as a cut down version, not struggling from the outset to explain to people why you couldn't run Office etc in RT.

Surface RT, not Surface 8 Pro, is the equivalent competition to the iPad. Why on this green earth would MS do it in reverse?

If you will, I'd like to ask you a few questions, Ray, since you remain fairly anonymous in your profile.

Do you own a company or have a business degree?

If you own a company, do you have research, development, and advertising departments?

If you have a business degree, have you studied and learned of these departments I mentioned?

 

[Tepid]

No I wouldn't and it's not a cut back version,, it is basically Home And Student 2013
Word, Excel, Power Point and OneNote. Fully functional. No, this isn't Cherry Picking, it is setting the record straight

Windows RT could have been marketed differently later on, as a cut down version, not struggling from the outset to explain to people why you couldn't run Office etc in RT.

Which is false in every since,, you made that statement and it was a false, wrong, incorrect, statement.
Just like many of the so called Review Articles that abound out there now. There are a ton of them filled with false, incorrect information.

I can admin when i am wrong, so I did go and look. And found that it is a slightly cut back version of Office Home and Student for Security reasons..

Office Home & Student RT Preview - Office.com

Does Office Home & Student 2013 RT (Preview and the final edition) include the same features as Office Home & Student 2013 on my Windows 7 or Windows 8 PC?
Almost – Word 2013 RT, Excel 2013 RT, PowerPoint 2013 RT and OneNote 2013 RT in Office Home & Student 2013 RT include the vast majority of Office Home & Student 2013 features available on PCs, and nearly all the features most customers use. But because tablets have special needs for security and mobility, a few features are unavailable in Office Home & Student 2013 RT, including macros, add-ins, and other custom programs written by users or developed by third parties.

That doesn't negate the fact that it is still there and usable. On RT.

And the reason for that is you can't install any AV that is not available in the MS Store. but you can't do that on iPad or Android unless it is in their App Stores either.

 

[Ray8]

[
Surface RT, not Surface 8 Pro, is the equivalent competition to the iPad. Why on this green earth would MS do it in reverse?

If you will, I'd like to ask you a few questions, Ray, since you remain fairly anonymous in your profile.

Do you own a company or have a business degree?

If you own a company, do you have research, development, and advertising departments?

If you have a business degree, have you studied and learned of these departments I mentioned?

I realise that RT is the Android/iOS competition platform and which is what Microsoft wants to tackle long term. But they are not going to overturn that market overnight. Windows 8 Pro would have built immediately on the existing Windows userbase, especially those who have hung on to XP and Vista and those who were considering a tablet but needed full windows capability, and also introduced them to the apps as a side benefit.

When new products are introduced into the market, companies invariably introduce their flagship first and then follow up with less expensive and less featured versions for the masses. This has always been the case with consumer products, be it cameras or cars.

As for your questions, I've done an MBA, have a science degree, project management diploma and have been involved in various areas of research and development, as well as marketing, for many years. I'm semi-retired, but keep on top of all such things, which remain of interest to me. I also do some consulting work, related to product marketing in a research environment.

I guess that you're asking whether I have a clue. I think I do.

 

[Tepid]

Again, I agree, WinRT leading this out of the gate was the wrong decision.

I admit, MS could have taken the world by storm had they stuck with the Gadget type Apps, and just locked them down like they have now.
Running these Apps from the desktop in a windowed environment and allowed for full desktop apps to run along side them would have fully and completely destroyed Apple and Google. Especially if they had pushed harder for the cross platform apps

 

[Ray8]

No I wouldn't and it's not a cut back version,, it is basically Home And Student 2013
Word, Excel, Power Point and OneNote. Fully functional. No, this isn't Cherry Picking, it is setting the record straight.

The fact is, all I was pointing out is that RT is not a full blown PC, that's why there is Windows 8 Pro. Arguing over the semantics of what RT comes with is pointless, and it's a fact that people are confused about the two versions and what they can do. That, in itself, is a big marketing mistake by Microsoft.

In the words of a famous quote: 'Microsoft managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.' Mind you, this only relates to the Surface; third party manufacturers will take a different approach and sell Windows 8 Pro devices as the devices of choice. Samsung has already taken this approach.

 

[Tepid]

Arguing over the semantics of what RT comes with is pointless, and it's a fact that people are confused about the two versions and what they can do.

It is the exact point....

Again, there are a lot of so called informed articles out there spewing a lot of untrue information.

People do read things, and they don't always take things with a grain of salt and do their own research, they read a blog, or a post and take that as what it is. Stating that WinRT can't run Office, (as you did, there is no denying you did say that) is in fact not true. not only adding to the confusion that already exists, but perpetuating it.

Someone who doesn't know and my be reading this, will read that and may walk away believing that WinRT can not run Office.

 

[SIW2]

MS would have been advised of the best way.

They made a decision not to wait and did it backwards.

I would think Stevie B felt it was too dangerous to wait.

Allegedly it was Stevie S who forced the startscreen on the desktop.

Conveniently, Stevie S is no longer there.

 

[Lee]

Well Mr. AGuy looks as though your thread took on a whole theme. . .

 

[Ray8]

Arguing over the semantics of what RT comes with is pointless, and it's a fact that people are confused about the two versions and what they can do.

It is the exact point....

Again, there are a lot of so called informed articles out there spewing a lot of untrue information.

People do read things, and they don't always take things with a grain of salt and do their own research, they read a blog, or a post and take that as what it is. Stating that WinRT can't run Office, (as you did, there is no denying you did say that) is in fact not true. not only adding to the confusion that already exists, but perpetuating it.

Someone who doesn't know and my be reading this, will read that and may walk away believing that WinRT can not run Office.

You cannot install and run the Microsoft Office suite on Windows RT, a modified version comes pre-installed on RT. So technically, what I have stated is correct; it's the semantics. The etc part is even more valid, as a user cannot install anything on RT that is not available through the Windows app store.

 

[SIW2]

There is some chance it may pick up. Something like this might just be the ticket (assuming Dell have managed to make it perform reasonably )

Dell Unveils New Business PCs Designed for the Evolving Workforce | Dell

A PRO tablet at $499. Makes RT tablets look completely pointless.

 

[A Guy]

There are certainly passions here. As long as it's civil, then it's all good. The posting of articles, on my part anyway, is to spur dialog. It certainly worked

A Guy

 

[BillWindows]

There is some chance it may pick up. Something like this might just be the ticket (assuming Dell have managed to make it perform reasonably )

Dell Unveils New Business PCs Designed for the Evolving Workforce | Dell

A PRO tablet at $499. Makes RT tablets look completely pointless.

Not really, especially if they can make one with RT a bit smaller,thinner, faster and longer battery life, that's all some people would need.
I'd buy one with all those attributes if it was just a bit cheaper, just for travelling.

 

[Ray8]

I still believe that Microsoft took the wrong approach. They should have introduced the Surface Pro first with all the bells and whistles, had it start in the desktop and placed an icon on the desktop that took one to the apps menu. That way people familiar with Windows would have felt perfectly at home with Windows 8 and would have been able to wean themselves to the apps, if they felt it's what they wanted to use when they didn't need a full desktop.

The OS would have received the accolades that it deserves and talk would have then moved to the apps side of things and how great, or not, they were. The app store was fairly small as it was, so there was nothing to hoot and holler about it from the start. Subsequently, Microsoft could have introduced RT, with plenty of time to explain that it was a modified version of Windows 8 that worked solely in the app environment like iOS and Android.

People would have understood that and those who had sufficient time with Windows 8 and the apps would likely have given favourable reports on the apps. No matter what some think about the start menu, a lot of people hate it or have no use for it, so doing it the way Microsoft did, garnered them no favours overall. Now there is a degree of negativity and disappointment to overcome and that is going to be a lot harder to rectify than anything else.

 

[lehnerus2000]

What is it that Win8 Can Not do that Win7 can?

I am sorry, I haven't found a single thing that I can not do in 8 that I could do in 7. Not one single solitary thing.
All of my software and hardware work just fine, not one single issue with that.

Try changing the icon font type or icon spacing.

 

[jimbo45]

I think decline was already happening. People like tablets and smartphones and don't have as much need as they used to for an actual computer.

I don't think Windows 8 had a darn thing to do with it.

Hi there
Absolutely correct.

Honestly some of these stats are so bleedin' obvious people only need to have the brain a size of a pea to realize that it's not necessary to use a PC for a lot of things that we used to use it for -- for example smart phones can easily suffice for basic email, quick google searches, things like train, bus times, restaurant and pub finder etc etc as well as for social media like facebook etc.

I've sometimes gone several days without even LOOKING at a PC (other than when at work). Even on these Forums it's relatively simple to submit replies via a smart phone -- or certainly a tablet for those that like them.

Windows 8 (to re-iterate your post) has absolutely NOTHING, repeat NOTHING! - ALDREI! - -Gar Nichts !никогда ! Nigdy ! ei koskaan ! هرگز ! etc in whatever language you care to name to do with the sales of PC's.

In any case when were PC sales EVER dependent on the OS installed on them. - In the good old days we used to get "Bog standard PC's with a load of CD's and it was up to the user to install the OS when they got home -- but I suppose things move on in the "general Dumbing down" of the masses where it's all done for you --but it's actually far worse to UNSCRAMBLE if this stuff goes wrong.

Slightly OT here but relevant to Windows 8 sales :

Windows 8 will be OK especially as Windows 8 phones are getting (Finally) some really good reviews -- the previous versions using some sort of hybrid W7 system were quite frankly not very good and the handsets themselves had the appeal of a piece of some really old stinking rotten fish. The latest batch of handsets running Windows 8 that have actually APPEARED in the stores are quite good and sexy --I'm even considering one as my 2nd phone even though I love the Samsung Galaxy IIIs (and it's little brother the Galaxy IIIs mini which can be had here for about 220 EUR Network free or unlocked --( phones here are always unlocked BTW).

Now as far as Licenses for Windows 8 are concerned I'm not sure how W8 phones are licensed by Ms -- I'm sure it would be a block payment rather than a levy to Ms on each phone sold so we can't really count Windows licenses in the classical way we did with XP or W7.

The whole RT idea was a bit of a red herring to Ms -- I really think they would have liked to get the PRO version out first - especially at XMAS time -- business usually release the top of the line model first to whet the public's appetite and then release a cheaper / less featured version.

Look at Samsung -- after their flagship Galaxy IIIs phone which by any standards has been a world runaway best seller -- not easy to do in a "Mature market" they've released it's little brother the SAMSUNG Galaxy IIIs mini --- an excellent slightly smaller phone with a DUAL processor instead of a quad --still powerful enough -- at less than HALF price -- great phone for around 200 EUR (where I am phones are always unlocked and not tied to networks although you can still take out short term contracts -- nothing to stop you after 1 or 2 months from then changing the SIM !!).

Anyway the whole distinction between tablets and PC's is becoming blurred -- all a tablet essentially is now is a PC without a built in keyboard.

If you look at say the HP ENVY series of laptops with the detachable tablet lid that operates as a tablet would you call the machine a PC or a tablet -- it's both -- not a Phablet as that refers to ta combination of Phone and tablet like some of the larger Samsung "notepads"

cheers
jimbo

 

[DooRules]

A tablet maybe like your PC but I can assure you it is nothing like my PC and has no place for me.

And while w8 may not be the cause of shrinking PC sales it surely did nothing to breathe life into them. DOA for just about everyone I know.